Speaker 1:
0:18
Welcome to the Touchdown Jaguars podcast. I am your cohost, phil Smith, and joining me as always or should I say I am joining him because he held it down last week. James Johnson and Jay, we are coming off our second straight loss here for us with the Jacksonville Jaguars, as they fell to the Cleveland Browns 31 to 27 in what was just a very frustrating and ugly game to watch all around, and I know there's a lot of very, very intense feelings going on right now within the fan base and I know a lot of that. We share some of that concern as well. But we are hopefully here today to bring you a sense of the sky is not falling here in Duval County, but give you kind of a realistic outlook as to what we can expect for the remainder of the season. I will say this, jay you know it is kind of a bummer that just a few weeks ago we were talking about the Jaguars possibly hosting two home playoff games and then moving on to the Super Bowl, to the point where you know our buddy Eric and I, and also you and myself, were making plans for the Super Bowl. What are we going to do if this does end up happening in terms of other commitments in our lives that happen around that game and one unfortunate Trevor Lawrence injury. Later, things have just completely changed. We are in a complete 180 as far as how the fan base feels, so I'm excited to reconnect with you on that. As you know, I was in attendance for Monday Night Football and, along with the injury, it was just a frustrating display of defense, watching Jake Browning, the NFL's new darling, throw the ball up and down the field and then followed by yesterday's performance by Joe Flacco. So, jay, hopefully we can just figure out what the hell is going on here while also having a fun time, because again it's good to be back here with you and I'm excited to talk about what is happening here with our Jacksonville Jaguars today.
Speaker 2:
2:44
Yeah, man, glad to have you back this week. And yeah, man, I mean I didn't get to see the game into its full entirety like I would have liked because my stream was hit or miss. So there's that, and I did go back and watch the first quarter before we got on on air here. So I mean I've seen enough. I would say I probably seen about 75% of the game, but you know me, mr Thurrow, I like to see every snap and all of that. But still, we'll make it do what it do here and, like you said, you know, hopefully give everybody a sense that the sky is falling, hopefully come to some conclusions as to what happened and what needs to improve. Heading forward, I can't wait to get into the actual show and glad to have you back. As you know, like you said, I did it solo last week, which was actually fine. I'm proud of myself for holding myself and or holding back and not, you know, going off on too much of a rant on that episode. I held it to under 50 minutes. I was hoping to get it a little less, but I held it under 50 minutes, so I ain't read too much, but yeah, still, it's always fun when you're in the booth with me, so glad to be back, as always. You all can check us out on touchdownjadwarscom, where we got archived episodes and articles, and some articles may be coming soon because we are in a point here in December where they are the Jaguars have disappointed us and, that being said, you know it will make for good content, written content that is to go online. And yeah, man can't wait. I'll let you plug the rest of the handles and then all of the other good stuff.
Speaker 1:
4:26
Yeah, like Jay mentioned, you know he already talked about the website and you can find everything you need in the link tree link of this episode, find all archived episodes, as well as our social media pages and a way you can also support the show a little bit extra. If you find yourself needing some tickets down the line for the last few home games this season, use our promo code touchdownjadwars at seek geek and save $20 off your first purchase with them. So shout out to Seakeek for continuing to sponsor the show. But, jay, we have a lot to talk about. We will very briefly discuss what happened the other day, or yesterday at this point, while we were recording, with the Jaguars, as mentioned, falling to the Cleveland Browns 31-27. And once again, just not looking very good in defeat in terms of the play on the field. The story of the game, part of the story being Joe Flacco throwing for 311 yards and three touchdowns A man who was not even on the team a month ago comes in. I mean, granted Super Bowl champion, joe Flacco Let me put some respect on his name and carving up this Jacksonville Jaguar defense. And, jay, in the last couple of weeks they've just had two quarterbacks that shouldn't do this type of thing to a defense in which we were praising Mike Caldwell earlier in the season, talking about how he should be getting some head coaching interviews in the off season. I'm not sure if that's totally out the door at this point or what, but if that is going to be the case, then you can't have Jake Browning and Joe Flacco showing you up here in these last couple of weeks. Trevor Lawrence three interceptions. However, we're going to definitely talk about that in terms of where the blame lies for probably all three of those. And it was just an ugly game to watch, a very frustrating game. I know you said you only got to watch bits and pieces, but you've seen a good chunk of it at least, whether in highlight form or elsewhere. But I myself just had to go and do something. I had the game on, but I also had to keep myself busy doing other things. You know whether it was playing 2K or doing shores or Lego Fortnite which is fantastic, by the way, for those of you that don't know and I just found myself having to again keep busy between the wide open touchdown passes, between the drops, between the incorrect routes that were being run One of the more frustrating performances I've seen, probably in the Doug Peterson era, and that's including the games early on in his tenure, when they were still trying to figure things out. So how do you feel about 24 hours removed, or a little bit over 24 hours removed from the game? And, you know, do you echo some of those sentiments? Because, again, it was just a really, really frustrating game to watch.
Speaker 2:
7:22
Yeah, well, what I will say. The first thing you touched on was the defense and their performance against Joe Flacco. It wasn't necessarily acceptable, but when looking at it in hindsight, this one might so more so fall on the offense than the defense, because I mean, the Jaguars defense at least gave them three interceptions right, and there was also, I think, johnson shout outs to him too and making some plays One of the positives of this gloomy game. But yeah, johnson also had the it was like the fourth fumble who he almost won me a five leg parley due to that, but unfortunately I needed some other things to go right and win that. Guys don't mess with Vegas. Okay, it's just frustrating, but especially when you're looking at the Jags games. But yeah, so I mean looking at it from that perspective, when I got to like sit back and kind of calm down and assess it, I mean you can at least throw out there that the defense did that much, all right. So when you look at the offense and some of the points they got, they put the offense into the position to get what like 14 of those points, if I'm not mistaken. I have to go back and look at it, but they were really the reason that the Jaguars, you know, were able to kind of get going offense and make this remotely close. So I don't want to like harp on them too much, although they have some key players who aren't stepping up for them and aren't playing at great for them. You know the safety play hasn't been great. Of course Tyson Campbell didn't play, they you know he stayed home, he didn't fly due to the quad injury, so they were without him. I guess we can't say Williams got a pick, although you know he's been kind of hit or miss too. But I mean, for the most part you'll take that because he's pretty good in coverage and he does give you a higher interception rate. But he wasn't necessarily great either. Ray Sean Jenkins still kind of going on what I said last week and last week solo episode, just, you know, not looking like the Ray Sean Jenkins we saw last year for sure. So something's going on there as well, but still, nonetheless they did get the three interceptions. They gave this chance to this team and Trevor Lawrence said it, this offense many chances to keep the game close and to not let it get out of hand. So I don't know how you feel about that, but I would say, more so put this one on the offense than more so on the defense.
Speaker 1:
10:02
Yeah, absolutely, and that's where a lot of the frustration lied. I think again, what really stands out is miscommunications on both sides, but three wide open touchdowns, two to David and Joku, who had literally never had a multi-touchdown game in his career, who has largely been a relatively. He's underperformed for being a first-round pick and you've talked about this extensively. It's tough for first-round tight ends to exceed or meet the expectation of a first-round draft pick. So David and Joku is a prime example of that. But between the three wide open passes they gave them opportunities to get points by getting them the ball back. Antonio Johnson, huge standout, can't wait to see him hopefully earn more playing time. But when those are the main things, especially coming out of the gate, that are so prevalent, with just wide open touchdown opportunities from a quarterback that again was not even on the team just a few weeks ago, I think that's probably where a lot of the frustration lies. But yes, the offensively they didn't really do much at all to help Trev Between the wide receivers and the offensive line. No running game whatsoever for a guy that we gave our first half MVP to in Travis Etn. He's just gotten no opportunities, no help from that front line. And yeah, I definitely think, yeah, you're certainly right. A lot of this falls in the offense. For sure, go ahead.
Speaker 2:
11:36
Right, yeah, I totally get where you're coming from, where the lapses they have on defense. Right Giving up, especially in the first drive. That kind of stuff helps the momentum of games. Right, Giving up a touchdown in the first drive and giving up one in the way that they did to in Joku, If I'm not mistaken, that was in the first drive, yeah, like four plays into the game actually. So I mean you don't want to be starting games like that. For sure they settled at times a little bit midway through the game so that kind of helped the game not get out of hand. And again that you got a factor in the interceptions and the turnovers they caused. Dewey calls one to like I said Williams got a pick and Johnson calls one to. So yeah, I get what you're saying. Like it's they especially, just for some reason was frustrating about them. Again, you know they're less blameable than the offense, but that's not to say they're completely off the hook either. It's just the you know the lack of being able to affect backup quarterbacks. And for me this is crazy to say, but I feel like the Jacksonville Jaguars, I trust them more against a starting quarterback like Lamar Jackson next week. Remember the last time we played Lamar Jackson. We were effective enough against him to win the game right. I feel kind of like that heading into next week against, you know, the Baltimore Ravens and the rematch against them. But I trust this defense more so against you know starting quarterbacks that they, you know that have a long line of film as opposed to your Jake Brownins of the world and also your Joe Flackels of the world. So hopefully I'm right on that and that, you know, equates to a win next week. We'll see in time, we'll tell on that. And then, yeah at going back to the offense. Well, actually, before I do that, I want to circle around to a question or something I talked on last week um giving props to Josh Allen and how he's looked. He's been one of the more consistent players on this team. Real quick, I want to ask because we've been hard on Josh Allen and that's why I addressed it last week and just say, like he's really earned his money, how do you feel about him now and how he's playing and how he's consistently showing up in terms of what he's been able to do the last few, you know, weeks or so? Even though he didn't I don't think he got to sack this game he still was showing up against the run it just seems like we finally got a Josh Allen that just doesn't disappear. I don't know how you feel about that, but curious to know your thoughts about him and how you feel about how he's looked from. You know, really, you know that first game of the season which we kind of were like, uh, it might have been some coverage sacked there until now, like I feel much better about him as opposed to how I did week one against the Colts.
Speaker 1:
14:25
The good Josh Allen right, I mean one. Josh Allen has a what nine games streak, with the interception in Buffalo doing his Blake Bortles impression, um, and then we have our Josh Allen here, who is just a you know, a couple of games away from breaking the, uh, the all-time record here in Jacksonville, probably at some point in his career. And yeah, like you said, even though he didn't register that sack, he was all over the place, man, literally. Whenever I looked up and the and Cleveland was trying to establish any type of run, uh, josh Allen was there. So, uh, he, like you said, has earned literally every cent that is coming his way. I pray that Trent bulky is somebody that can get this done and doesn't mess around with this. Uh, between getting, you know, josh Allen done and also Trevor Lawrence taken care of we're going to talk about Trent bulky I'm sure he here in a moment but, yeah, they need to lock this guy up, establish him as a franchise cornerstone on that defense and, uh, you know I don't want to see any messing around with this. Get it done. And, uh, you know, really proud of him and, like you said, we have seen him flash over the last few years, but then you would go through those stretches where we just wouldn't say his name at all. Those days seem to be behind us and hopefully this is, uh, you know this Josh Allen is is here to stay because he has been fantastic.
Speaker 2:
15:50
He absolutely has and, um, you know, here's to, you know, not only getting him taken care of but getting them some help. Getting him and Roy and Trevor and some help because they seem to really be the only dudes that's effective in the trenches, you know. And Walker, he's, you know, up and down, but he's shown us enough to like, make us feel confident that he's going to be okay. And Roy Roberts and Harrison is, you know, just a savvy veteran who, um, you know, I think he's one of the more underrated players on this defense. But they desperately and that was that's what would get Josh Allen. We've said this for many years. Phil is that Josh Allen has always needed that guy beside him. Um, now he's proven that he could be that guy. He doesn't necessarily need it, but what we're seeing is it's not much around him now at all. You know what I'm saying, aside from the two guys I just mentioned. So, like that's something you know, we'll talk about that in the off season episode. Man, they have to find Josh Allen, walker and Harrison some help, because everybody else is, you know, they're just guys. I mean, hamilton hasn't looked right since he's returned at all. He looks like a completely different player, foley, fats and Cassie. You know he's battled injuries here and there, but he that's a lot of money that Trent Malkfalki spent on him that we're not really getting a return from as well. Let's just call it what it is as well, on that Caleb on a chase, on this Caleb on a chase, on no need to really get into him even though he's made some plays here and there, but not a guy that like will be looking at in the off season saying, oh yeah, we need to like extend him. So it's not really any help there. But just going on to the offense, because I didn't really talk about them, it's obviously one thing that you kind of didn't mention, or maybe you did, but just the absence of Christian Kirk kind of hurt them from the standpoint of having those big time chunk plays that they need, or you know those situations where they needed clutch play against man coverage, whatever the case may be. So you know that's something that they're going to have to figure out. You know, they've said it, christian Kirk is not coming back anytime soon. They will have to go into the AFC Championship or the Super Bowl for him to be able to play again. But you know, nonetheless they do have Parker Washington, but I said this last week right, it's a huge gap between Washington and Kirk. Although Washington has given us two touchdowns and two games, still Washington hasn't helped us from the standpoint of moving the ball down the field from that standpoint like Kirk has. And that could come in time, and I have confidence that it will, because Washington does look like he could be a low key star. Shout out to him and Johnson again two late round guys helping us out. You know. So time will tell on him, but we have to be patient with Washington. He's a young kid and you know he wasn't getting a lot of receiving snaps earlier in the season. You know he was more, so they tried him out on special teams a little bit, but he just hasn't seen the field a lot as a receiver. So that's going to be a working process or in progress. But yeah, I think like the absence of Kirk, even though Doug Peterson said it and I tweeted about this as well I get it, Doug, don't want to use that as an excuse, but they do need Kirk on the field. But at the same time it's like I told you guys in the threat man, this team has way too many weapons for them to get bogged down when one of the receivers falls. Earlier in the year it was a Jones. They had to figure things out without him for a little bit. Now it's Christian Kirk. As we mentioned earlier in the year field this team is more. When you look at the makeup of this team, this offense especially, it's still too many weapons out there for them to have the issues that they're having between Evan Ingram, who was pretty good, he had like what 95 yards Shout out to him. Maybe you get him more involved. In the absence of Christian Kirk, travis Etienne, who I think he's dealing with some injuries. He's spent some rip things going on there, if I can't recall, if I can recall, and obviously that's because this offensive line just like isn't helping him. He gets smacked around a lot, especially lately in this back half of the year. But they have Travis Etienne who can still help them from the standpoint of as a past catcher. Get him out in space and what have you? De'ernis Johnson is not bad at all for a second running back Either. You have him too. Maybe you give him more snaps and get him more involved. Calvin Ridley, who will talk about that as well later today, but it's too many weapons on this offense for them to just like have the performances that they've had over these last few months.
Speaker 1:
20:42
Yeah, you're right, christian Kirk shouldn't go down and then your offense look completely lost. And also, let me say this right, christian Kirk worth every penny. I don't hear him talking about that contract now which, as we have stated time and time again on this show, is now a bargain. So, christian Kirk, hopefully you get back soon, but we have enough on this team and we've invested enough on the offense to the point where we shouldn't see performances like this, and we're going to talk about that. Mia, brian quote and you know, talk about Calvin Ridley here as we transition out of talking about the game, because we need to discuss some things about the future of this team when it comes to the receiving core. Go ahead, jay.
Speaker 2:
21:27
Right, right, and where I guess, where we can shoot the team some, bail the offense, and this because and this concern me to and lo and behold, it was the case. But you know, trevor Lawrence not being able to practice as much as you know he would want, with the offense probably played into effect, and Doug mentioned that but he said they had so many reps together that that shouldn't have been the case. But I am a big believer in consistently hitting the field as a unit with, you know, the guys as best as you can. Of course injuries do play into effect with that. But I do think if Trevor Lawrence has a week where he can like, fully practice and he looked, you know, fine in terms of the ankle injury, so thank God for that Right, I don't know, like, what kind of genetics that guy has, but you know, shout out to him. But yeah, I think, like, if he gets a like a full week or a closer to a full week of practice with his team, that'll help tremendously as well. And I wouldn't be shocked if we actually upset the Ravens. But you know, time will tell. I did watch the Ravens earlier this year against the the charges. I wouldn't overly impressed, to be honest with you. You know I know a lot of people are like, yeah, they're the number one seed in the AFC and all of this stuff. But that game against the like I fell asleep on it against the charges, actually, and the reason I was watching this, because I have Herbert as my quarterback on on fantasy and I was like. you know, I get it that this team is good, but are they number one AFC seed good? I don't think so. But you know, time will tell on that and you know, hopefully we can get a W next week against them and, you know, get things turned around.
Speaker 1:
23:13
Well, here's one thing we're learning to Jay and I'll say this about the Baltimore Ravens is the AFC is weak to weak man. It's not like the NFC, where I think there are three teams we know that can go to the Super Bowl. Well, I mean, I don't know. I don't know how people feel about the Eagles at this point, because they haven't looked like last year's Eagles, despite their record. Niners and Cowboys, and then probably the Eagles will just throw their name in there just for respect purposes, and we know how good that coaching staff and that quarterback and that team can be. Defense isn't as good as last year, though, but in the FC it's changing every single week. Like I said two weeks ago, we're talking about the Jaguars going to the Super Bowl. Now, you and I didn't think that this team was good enough quite yet to go to the Super Bowl, but with the state of the AFC, it was something, and still should be something, that should be discussed, because, with the way the Kansas City Chiefs are playing right now, the Buffalo Bills obviously weren't what we thought they were going to be. I mean, they did beat Kansas City, but they're seven and six right. Who else are the other division leaders. You know, obviously at the top, like you said, the Ravens, and then we have I'm totally forgetting who the other division oh, we have the. Dolphins, who we'll see how they fare. Yeah, cleveland, pittsburgh, you know, miami and all those teams. Obviously we didn't get Aaron Rodgers coming up like the way that we wanted or that we, that people expected to see with the Jets. So the AFC is week to week man. This playoffs is going to be who gets to lose to San Francisco at least in my opinion, that's what it looks like San Francisco again my Super Bowl pick. So we'll see. Things can totally change and you know DeWon Smute said you know we're still eight and five and that's a good attitude to have they need to fix some things that are happening internally and on the field there. But I mean you're still in a relatively good spot even though you're the four seed, but I mean we still believe that they're going to win the division.
Speaker 2:
25:04
That's true. And you, you know you talked about something, even though I know this is a Jet Wars podcast. But real quick, I want to know your take on this Chief's meltdown, like Patrick Mahomes talking about how and he's always kind of been love him as a player, hall of Fame player, but he's always been just kind of like it's just something weird about Patrick Mahomes and that press conference he had confirmed it where he was saying that you know, like that put a stain on the Tony play, put a stain on Kelsey's Hall of Fame career. So between that and then you got Chris Jones up there going off on one of the coaches it might have been Spag, no, if I'm not mistaken, maybe, but I would have to go back and look at it. So you got that going on on the sideline Like they definitely don't look like a team that we should be like. Oh, I don't want to see them you know what I'm saying in the playoffs or whatever the case may be. So you make a good point about it being a week to week division in terms of the AFC. But real quick, I just wanted to know your thoughts on, like, what's going on at Casey and the craziness that yesterday was for them.
Speaker 1:
26:14
Oh, poor Patrick Mahomes and the Kansas City Chiefs. Right, boo, who you went to Superboles in three seasons because you know you have this quarterback who's plays backyard football and every single announcer gushes over him like he is God's gift of football. I, like I have never liked Patrick Mahomes since he came into this limelight. As a player, I absolutely respect him, but I'm so sick of him and the Kansas City Chiefs dude. And I was laughing it off when I see him act that way on the field and then act that way in the press conference. And he has the audacity to go to Josh Allen and say one of the worst calls he was off sides. Bro, it's not that hard. First off, your right tackle and Joann Taylor is lining up two yards behind the line of scrimmage. And then your wide receiver, kaderious Tony, that you spent that you traded a draft pick for, who is terrible? Lined up off sides, man, deal with it Like shut up. I'm so sick of Patrick Mahomes and I'm here for it. I hope the Chiefs never make it to another Super Bowl again. I can stop seeing Patrick Mahomes on these damn state farm commercials and make me want to cancel my plan.
Speaker 2:
27:28
And also also their stadium is apparently like the new version of Def Trap Dungeon in there, so it's falling apart like the team two on, if you saw that tweet as well.
Speaker 1:
27:39
That's not what happened to us in the press room. We have to worry about falling debris.
Speaker 2:
27:44
Yeah, I was about to say that's never happened to us and as much as people knock Jacksonville, their stadium and the media room, that's never happened to us in the media room. The few times that we have been. But yeah, there's that too. It's kind of foreshadowing of the team, huh.
Speaker 1:
28:00
Yeah, this is what they get, you know, maybe a soldier's soul for a couple super bulls. I hope it was worth it. Welcome to the rest of, welcome to how the rest of us feel in the NFL. So you know, I have all the confidence that I mean, the Chiefs of All, jokes Aside, are a first-class organization and I do have the confidence that they'll probably figure it out as far as getting Patrick Wilhombs some weapons again. But I mean, listen, travis Kelsey is getting up there in age. They thought they could just throw together some wide receivers and Patrick Wilhombs would do the rest. That's not the case, man. So again, welcome to how all the rest of us have felt for years. I don't feel bad for them one bit. But, jay, before we talk about the, you know the team in general and maybe some things we have to look to as far as the offseason, anything else you want to mention in regards to this specific game before we transition.
Speaker 2:
28:52
Nah, man, that was it. Man Just wanted to throw some shade at the Chiefs real quick. And yeah, also, just, you know, just share some thoughts on our offense and our defense. But yeah, no, I pretty much hit on. All the top is that I wanted to hit on. So, yeah, we can move on, man.
Speaker 1:
29:11
Yeah, let's talk about this Calvin Ridley thing. Okay, we got to address that first and you know, mio O'Brien was on the radio talking about how, you know, calvin Ridley has been essentially running for the wrong routes. He's done this multiple times this season and I think it was Trevor that said you know that we've been able to kind of mask that and obviously yesterday that was completely exploited between not only Ridd but also Zay Jones, and you know we are 13 games into this tenure with Calvin Ridley. We talked about this earlier in the season where I had posed the question to you. Actually is you know, have we, what have we seen from Calvin Ridley to say that yes, we're going to extend him, we're going to give this, give him a new contract. And I'm just interested to see how you feel now, because you know Christian Kirk shouldn't go down. If you are the guy that we think that he is, and you know you go out and trade assets for to go get him, then he can't disappear or make the kind of mistakes that you see we've seen from him here over the last few weeks and the kind of money that you're going to have to pay what is supposedly a top end wide receiver. I'm sure he's going to be asking for a lot of money despite, you know, the time that he missed he you know wide receivers are always paid on the higher end of the market. But how are we feeling now? And you know, talk about also his missteps and coming into the season, you know everybody is gushing over his route running and you know I've gotten to the point where you cannot just let that training camp tape fool you anymore. You got to be better as a fan and Calvin Ridley has kind of been the example of that this season. But how are you feeling now and can you justify at this point, you know, with a few games left, extending Calvin Ridley with what we've seen so far?
Speaker 2:
31:02
So I think what saves Calvin Ridley? Often, you know, when you look at evaluating him and his 10 years of Jacksonville Jaguar, for as many mistakes that he's made in most games, in some way, shape or form he bounces back right, even if it's not necessarily the next game. He'll bounce back in a game where he started that game not looking all that great and then by the end of the game he'll give you a touchdown that he might have missed earlier in the game. So from that standpoint he's a hard evaluation to make because for every you know drop or mistake he makes, he does make up for it with another play later in the game. Now what I will say is like we shouldn't be in December and like their own routes are being run and things of that nature right, or ran, should I say and things of that nature like the playbook aspect of this thing should be down pat right now as far as to be having this discussion in December, says a lot, and that would probably be an indication that, no, we don't need to resign him Now. Again, for this organization, that's easier said than done, because if you do believe we need a receiver and you do believe we need to move on from Calvin, really which I agree with everybody Now, I'm there with you all now that we should move on from him. With that, we have a GM that you probably don't want making a call on who's going to replace Ridley or who's going to be in this receiver room, because his track record just says that he doesn't know how to evaluate this position in Trent Balkie. And like you know, I know a lot of people would say like oh, you know like he can improve, you know this, that and the other. But Trent Balkie has been in the NFL for a long time, okay, and the decisions that receiver just haven't gotten better. And this most recent one of deciding to bring in Calvin Ridley for a second round pick is just another prime example of that. Right. Admittedly, we thought he was right on this one. Like he, we thought he got this one right, giving up a second round pick, third round pick, whatever the case may be. We thought he had it right. And here we are going back to what I was saying in the beginning of this segment, talking about, you know, a receiver not being on the same page with Trevor Lawrence. Now, I don't know if necessarily this is something that is ticking off Trevor Lawrence as much as people think it is, because he's a pretty chill guy and even throughout the game you could just read his body language. Like you know, if he missed read on a throw or it was a little bit off, he'll go help him up say hey, that's on me. Even even in the interception throw, where Rid ran the wrong route, he, you know, said like hey, I was expecting you to run a post. I think that's what he was trying to say is I was expecting you to run a post there, but he wouldn't. He didn't go straight up Derek Carr on him, like we saw Derek Carr going off on I think that was Oliva or somebody earlier this year when we played them. So I would say that you know, don't take Trevor Lawrence comments the wrong way, as if you know he's calling out Ridley or saying you know he, you know he, him and Ridley can't exist or coexist together. Should I say I wouldn't take it that way and I think, like Trevor Lawrence is the type of guy that's just going to do whatever it takes to get that relationship right and get that chemistry right. You know, it's just a matter of like. You know we'll, ridley, start to get things right from the playbook's perspective. But none of that matters, because I think we need to move on from them, for the simple fact that we're having these conversations in December, that tells you that Trent Balkie was wrong there. But going back to that is again does Trent Balkie have the cut throat mentality that you need to approach free agency with and pay? T-wig is what it's going to take when it becomes a bidding war for him, right? Trent Balkie doesn't win bidding wars, ladies and gentlemen, I'm going to tell you right that right now, okay, if you are expecting this man to win a bidding war against anybody in this league, that's just not what he does. So probably free agency might be disappointing for you. If you want to get to Higgins or maybe you may can get Mike Evans, because he's older and that's kind of more. Trent Balkie's MO is trying to like, not overpay, people. So you might get Mike Evans, which I'll be fine with that. Actually, I like Mike Evans, like he's one of my favorite receivers in the league. I'll take that. But you would prefer to get the young guy that Trevor Lawrence has worked with in Higgins. But if that is what you're expecting, I'm telling you right now you probably want to just settle down on that and more. So look towards the draft for Mike Evans. Again, I've been told that the draft has a lot of good receivers in it, so I'll have to look into that later. I've kind of just been studying offensive linemen personally, because this offensive linemen, this offensive line we have, has just been so disappointing. So that's where I started in terms of my draft evaluations. But yeah, maybe you know, down the road we'll revisit this and I'll be like, okay, yeah, there's a young receiver we could get in the first round that can help us turn this thing around. But we'll revisit that later. But no, I don't think they need to retain Calvin really at this point, unfortunately. But if some games left he can maybe turn things around. But I'm at a point where I'm with you and most of the other fans let's probably keep that second round pick and use it on a player that we need desperately in the trenches or on another receiver. Yeah.
Speaker 1:
36:41
I wouldn't be surprised if we see some pretty drastic changes to the receiver room. Man, it hurts to talk about this too, man, because again in training camp we thought we had maybe a top 10, top 12 receiving core and here we are now thinking about having to basically blow the thing up. Aside from Christian Kirk, I mean I can't really believe that. I'm even thinking this, jay. But the receiver group was better with Marvin Jones last year and a savvy veteran, a guy that had been around but a dependable guy. He wasn't going to put up crazy numbers, but Trev had excellent chemistry with him and it just, for whatever reason, hasn't developed. And listen, also, calvin Ridley like to play devil's advocate a little bit. It's his first season back and quite a while. I don't doubt, based on his actions and his words, that he wants to be here, and he also stated, like earlier in the year, he doesn't like disappointing his quarterback. So I think all of those things are true. Also, at the same time, what can be true is that he's simply not a number one receiver anymore, and remember there were kind of questions about that in Atlanta before his huge breakout year, before he took his sabbatical, and maybe this is more of who he is than the guy that we saw with those huge numbers early on with Matt Ryan, who Matt Ryan did praise earlier in the season when he called the game. So I think Calvin Ridley is probably somewhere more in the middle between how poorly he's played the last couple of weeks and then that really, really good season with Atlanta. It's probably somewhere in the mid range, but probably not the guy worth a pretty expensive extension, which is what he's going to be looking for.
Speaker 2:
38:35
Right, yeah, I mean I agree there that he may be, you know, somewhere in between there. But you know, we'll see in time we'll tell what they decide on that. But yeah, like you say, what's disappointing about this whole thing is we're talking about rebuilding the receiver room, which I mean that's actually a good topic for another episode. But yeah, like you said, you got obviously Christian Kirk. You say Jones is another one that you got to think about, moving on from next year obviously. So yeah, man, like I guess that's just a testament of just Trent Bawke, not be. That's a position he struggles with and, dare I say, this is a situation I think our last GM, dave Calhwell, wouldn't have a problem fixing, because he was more so better with evaluating the receiver position, looking at the hits he had between Alan Robinson when he was in his prime, of course, and then finding Alan Hernes and Alan Lazard and free agency, even though we lost Alan Lazard. But I don't want to like make anybody go down memory lane. But yeah, man, this would be a situation that Dave could probably fix for us better than Trent. But time will tell on what we do there. And yeah, we could be looking at a drastically different room between you know the losses of, maybe Zay Jones and Calvin Ridley.
Speaker 1:
40:01
Yeah, I also have no faith in Trent Bawke being able to one, like you said, land a big fish like a T Higgins. You got to hope for what you mentioned. You know the recruiting skills of Trevor Lawrence and hope that he wants to play here and reunite with him and be the number one guy. I mean Christian Kirk, I would still argue, is the best receiver on the team. You would have to wonder if he wants to pair up with a guy or if he wants to be the guy, and then I, like I said, don't have any confidence in him being able to evaluate a wide receiver either. So for those of you that are still defending this, go off. I guess I don't know. I don't get it, but it's a unfortunate position to be in when we came into this season with such optimism. Go ahead, jay.
Speaker 2:
40:51
Yeah, and one thing that may help you with T Higgins. We make these jokes about the Bengals and you know their ownership. That kind of been the joke of the NFL when it comes to like that kind of thing. I mean he might get down here to Jacksonville and like, in comparison to the Bengals and money wise, you see it as like a world class organization I mean between the facility and you know all of the luxuries they don't have in Cincinnati and kudos to them to be able to turn things around Like they spent like crazy. They are Turning around as a franchise in terms of that frugalness that we used to associate with them. They spent a crap ton of money on their offensive line for Joe Burrow. Whether you think it worked or not, they at least did it. But yeah, just kind of just going off of that Like the frugalness, like he might get here and see like how shot comes living in the facility and he might be like, yeah, you know what? This is way better than what I had in Cincinnati. And you know I get to reunite with Trevor. You know I'm not going to be able to do that Reunite with Trevor. That's what you at least got a hold when it comes to Lurin and T Higgins, but that's a few months out. I guess, like it's just a shame that we're talking about that right now. You know, in terms of, like you said, we entered this season thinking we had things figured out and we went in a training camp like trying to like look at the figures and the numbers there. It was like we got too many good receivers, like we might have to keep seven receivers. And now we're here where we're like OK, we probably need to get rid of two of the guys atop the depth chart and we aren't as far along as we thought.
Speaker 1:
42:27
Right, we'll see what that looks like come off season time and how the room evolves, but we still have some games to play. I do want to end this episode here on this, jay, as you know, I want to talk about something that our good buddy, t Wigg, said over on on his show. You know, locked on Jaguar, shout out to him and the hard work that he does. So he talked about you know a lot of people talking about patience, right, and you were speaking with somebody on Twitter the other day about Trent Balkie and continuing to give him time and everything like that. And T Wigg, you know, straight up, came out and said you know, we've been patient. Patience breeds unsuccessful franchises, you know. So I'm paraphrasing here, but that's essentially what he is saying. And him, along with a lot of other people I've seen Tom McManus say similar things, you know, essentially fed up with the patience and the thought process that, hey, we got to give them some time. We got Trevor Lawrence and Doug Peterson, you know, but that's not enough at this point, right? Well, I mean, he also said this. Wigg also said this like, we've been patient for 30 years and for the most part, I would say for probably 90% of the team's existence, they've been a laughing stock and now you have a generational quarterback and what we think is the right head coach, paired with who we believe is a general manager that is not going to get the job, but an owner that for some reason, has this unwavering confidence or this unwavering loyalty to him. What are your thoughts on that? As far as patience Because again it's like we're talking about everything being over and we're still eight and five and in a good spot to win the division, but with the team with larger aspirations and a quarterback head coach combo that you think should be performing better in December, when it's when they were performing at their best last year what are your thoughts on that? And how do you respond to people saying just give it some time, wait it out and see how it goes? What do you say to that? So yeah, when you ask the question, about patience and all of that.
Speaker 2:
44:39
When it comes to a GM, you could save all that crap about patience, especially a GM with the long tenure of body of work that Trent Baalke has in terms of even before he was with Jacksonville. But my concern is that you never want to waste a quarterback as good as Trevor Lawrence and that has the talent that Trevor Lawrence has. You never want to waste too much of their tenure with the wrong answer at GM Right. For example, the one that I always use and this is who I actually compare Baalke to is Bill Polian and him being paired with Peyton Manning. And look, bill Polian and Peyton Manning did get one Super Bowl. But the point I've always made about that pairing is that they should have had way more than one Right. Yeah, of course we'll be happy and we'll have a boat parade and all of this with one Super Bowl. But Trevor Lawrence is capable, if paired with the right GM, of more than one Super Bowl. As a matter of fact, he's probably capable of doing the whole Bill Bella chicken and Tom Brady thing. You know, if you you've got the right GM with him and you can't tell me that you have faith that the parent of Trent Baalke and Trevor Lawrence gives you confidence enough. Confidence enough to feel like the Jaguars can build a dynasty. That's what I'm here for. I'm not here to win one Super Bowl, I want to win a dynasty. I want the rest of the league to hate us Like we hated the Patriots many, many years ago. And when you just go around League wide and look at who some of these young quarterbacks are paired with, you certainly have hope that they could be multiple Super Bowl winning organizations because they have the quarterback, they have the GM. For example, brett Veach is paired with Patrick Mahomes. We just talked about him and we don't like Patrick Mahomes. But you have to feel like Brett Veach and Patrick Mahomes and they already have one multiple Super Bowls. You got to feel like they got a few more Super Bowls in them, right. You look at Howie Roseman with the Eagles, who's paired with Jalen Hertz Right now. You got to feel like they are capable of more than one Super Bowl to you. Look at a guy like Chris Ballard, who's from the Chiefs Tree, and the noise they're making without Richardson right now and the things he's put in place and I know some Colts fans don't necessarily like Ballard, but he's put some things in place there for Richardson to flourish with and for them to be a force and for them to be consistently if not in the playoffs, maybe an AFC champion team multiple times or what have Right? You look at the way that you're playing Multiple times, or what have Right? You look at those comparisons Brett Veach, patrick Mahomes, howie Roseman, jalen Hertz, maybe Chris Ballard and Richardson. You look at Stroud and the I forget the GM's name over there with the Texans, but they already are clicking on all cylinders with the Tank Dell situation that they paired him with right out of the gate. So you know they could be a threat for many, many years. But you look at those comparisons and then you look at what we have Trent Balkie and Trevor Lawrence. Like how do you feel when you compare those duos in comparison to Trevor Lawrence? And most people would say I got the confidence that Trevor Lawrence will end up being what he's supposed to be because he's proven it to us and he survived Irving Myers tenure and you know he's basically overcome everything you throw at him pretty much at this point. But Trent Balkie hasn't been able to endure everything that you throw at him. As a matter of fact he's gone through what three forehead coaches right, couldn't see eye to eye with them. And now you know he's with Doug, and I would more so say he's probably with Doug, because Doug may have been willing to just like find whatever good opportunity he could find which was being paired with Trevor Lawrence, more so than want to work with Trent Balkie. I think that's what that's more so about. But you know, yeah, he can act buddy buddy with Trent and all of that, but if you got the opportunity to work with Trevor Lawrence, you're jumping on it, probably regardless of what GM is there. That said, man, I just don't want to waste Trevor Lawrence's tenure with the wrong GM and be looking back at his career and saying, man, you know, we had a great run with Trevor Lawrence, but we could have had more Super Bowls or we could have had more AFC championships or we could have had this, that and the other, and look back at it and say the reason that he didn't get those things were because of Trent Balkie. But you know, that's how I feel on it. I'm sure you feel similarly on that, but I'm curious to hear your thoughts as well.
Speaker 1:
49:19
Yeah, listen, we do not want to, in 20 years, look back at the career of Trevor Lawrence and talk about him in the same vein of a Phillip Rivers, donovan McNabb, right, matt Ryan sorry, jay, to bring that up. We don't want to go back and look at it in terms of missed championship opportunities, right, jim Kelly? I mean God, how do Buffalo Bills fans feel about that 10-year, four straight Super Bowls and not getting one? You know, obviously, getting to Super Bowl, we have to at least start there. But you don't want to look back and say that Trevor Lawrence is and add him to this list right of quarterbacks that just could not get that Super Bowl. You want to put him in the conversations with the Brady's, manning's, unfortunately, mahomes, you know you want to put him in that category and this pairing is not going to be it. And I believe we've seen enough, like all you guys, talking about patience and give him time and let him cook and bulky, master class, all that nonsense, like no, he's had time and we've also seen him do this job and do it not very well. So, when there are options out there and probably you, when you have a guy like Doug Peterson, that shotgun should give the reins to in terms of getting a guy in here that can help him build a championship roster and build a championship team, then that is the route that they need to go. So, for the sake of this fan base, for the sake of Trevor Lawrence, I hope that shotgun has the confidence in himself to make this move because, for whatever reason, he has this unwavering loyalty to Trent bulky. But be winning the division and then losing in the divisional round every year while we have a generational quarterback, it's not going to be enough. It's not going to do it. You know, when you have a quarterback in the room that can get you over the hump and win you championships, as long as the team has put together properly, don't waste that opportunity. Don't make us go into this era and sit through this era of Jaguar football, where we are finally winning, and waste it because you think you owe it to the guy for some reason. You owe him some more time and are going to allow him to stick around for the wrong reasons. Go ahead, jay.
Speaker 2:
51:43
Jay-Z yeah, it was one I missed to Eric DeCosta and Lamar Jackson too, which I mean I get it that Lamar was drafted by oh my God, I'm forgetting his name right now legendary GM that used to play tight end for the Browns Ozy Newsom, ozy Newsom, there you go. I always remember Ozy Newsom as the player and for some reason blanked on him as a GM. But yeah, I know that Ozy Newsom drafted Lamar Jackson, but DeCosta has been Ozy Newsom's right hand man, so he's kind of DeCosta picked two for many, many years. So that's another one too that you get vibes about. Okay, yeah, they could probably win more than one Super Bowl. But yeah, man, I'm with you, man, let's not waste this kid's career with somebody who's had three, four coaching ten years and has an extensive body of work enough of a body of work to know that, like you know, he's not great at his job. Maybe okay at best, maybe okay, but I don't want to okay GM at best with Trevor Lawrence. And if Shotcon wanted to really put the effort into it and find the right GM to pair with Trevor Lawrence, shotcon would lend himself a ton of money, a ton of money. He's already getting the stadium deal done. But imagine if he had the dynasty to go with it. Right, and you know, for the years and years, and years we would show up to that beautiful stadium which would then, at that point, not only be one of the top stadiums in terms of look, but one of the top stadiums in terms of places to play, because we we've built a dynasty. The money would print itself. But Shotcon has to want to put the effort into building something like that and we'll see, and Tom will tell if he does want to do that. I feel like Tony Khan may want to, even though I've heard he likes Trent Baalke too. That's been kind of said on the internet, but I think Tony Khan could see that vision, but Shotcon has to be the one to see it and Tom will tell if he does.
Speaker 1:
53:48
Yeah, we shall see Lots of football to play. We have a big Sunday night matchup coming up this weekend as we will focus on the, the remaining games and then hopefully, a deep playoff run and we'll kind of go from there at that point. But, Jay, anything else you want to talk about on what was I knew was going to be a very spirited episode from the both of us as we address this team that is trending in the wrong direction at the worst possible time. But we are confident that they can get things together, at least for the remaining the remainder of the season, and we will see them in the playoffs. Anything else you want to talk about before we wrap up and get out of here and again, focus on Sunday night football.
Speaker 2:
54:34
No, that's it man, Like you said, very spirited episode, very fun episode, despite the loss. I think we got a tendency to make all of the losses fun Others from your comedic aspect of it or just my football knowledge but yeah, we once again did that this case and yeah, man can't wait for next week and hopefully we'll be talking about a victory.
Speaker 1:
54:58
Yeah, and hopefully a better outing on primetime in front of a national audience, as well as, again, welcome Sunday night football in the town and our second straight primetime game here at the bank, which is just crazy to say, folks. Thank you so much for checking out this episode of the Touchdown Jaguars podcast. We will be back next week, better than ever. Make sure again to check out the link tree link In the show notes of this episode. You'll find everything you need social media, the website Touchdown Jaguars. You can find archive episodes and articles, and don't forget to use that promo code Touchdown Jaguars. We appreciate everybody checking out Touchdown Jaguars. Once again, I am Bill Smith. That's your co-host. James Johnson, don't forget to tune in to Touchdown Jaguars for every Jaguar touchdown and we'll see you next week.
