Speaker 1:
0:18
Welcome to the Touchdown Jaguars podcast. I am your co-host, phil Smith, and joining us, as always, is your other co-host, james Johnson. And Jay, unfortunately a all too familiar feeling in the history of this podcast, as we are talking about yet another loss, third straight loss for the Jacksonville Jaguar, second primetime game in a matter of weeks and once again, the Jacksonville Jaguar is a lay of egg in front of a national audience and we have a lot to talk about here this evening. A lot of emotions are running high, just as they have been over the last few weeks, but now, as we find ourselves in a position where the division is no longer a sure thing it wasn't the lay up that a lot of national pundits thought it was going to be. I know we certainly thought that the Jaguars would come away with this division, but the way that the NFL goes, nobody stays down for very long, and now we have a couple of division rivals right behind us. So, jay, I'm excited to talk to you about a plethora of subjects here this evening and also happy to be back with you here tonight and how you're feeling on the third straight week where we do not get to enjoy a victory Monday or a victory Tuesday in the case of the Monday night game a couple weeks ago.
Speaker 2:
2:01
Yeah, disappointed to say the least, because, as you said, we now are in a three way tie, which we own the tiebreakers, but a three way tie with the Colts Texans in the AFC South. So that's not a good feeling because, like now, the margin of error just isn't there for the Jacksonville Jaguars. Of course, I mean, like you know, the games we have coming up are a little easier than the games that we just went through. But, as you said, man, it would have been just nice to like, step to the occasion, rise to the occasion on Monday night football and Sunday night football, because it's been such a long time since, you know, those respective shows have come to Jacksonville and we just, you know, straight up crap the bed and both of them. But nonetheless, the Jaguars still have an opportunity to go to the playoffs. They still control their own destiny. I guess that's the good part. But they're going to have to turn some things around really, really fast and they are going to have to go in the complete opposite direction than they're going currently. So we'll talk about that. As you said, some exciting things to talk about and, as always, feel free to check us out. Check out our website, should I say, touchdownjaguarscom, where we have archived episodes and articles soon will be on there. We have some old articles as well and yeah, man, I can't wait to hear your thoughts as well, as you attended the event live.
Speaker 1:
3:40
Yeah, it was. It was strange because it was a totally different vibe than Monday night. Because, you know, going into Monday night they are what? Eight and three all the talk of possibly securing the top seed in the playoffs and having home field advantage, and all of this and the city and the stadium is just buzzing right. And I'll tell you what. And I would love to hear if anybody else feels differently. But last night it was pretty quiet, it was relatively silent and not as much enthusiasm in the air. At least that's what it felt like and that's what it sounded like. And you know when you lose two games in a row and the Trevor injury, and then you know how they played last week and that's what's going to happen. And now we are in this space where we know that the Jaguars are, for whatever reason, not a good home team. You know where this is supposed to be a strength for. So pretty much any other NFL franchise, this has become a weakness when they play at home. I mean, they were undefeated on the road up until last week. So the vibe was totally different and that's unfortunate. And the play on the field has extended that feeling, I think, amongst a lot of people. So we're going to break all that down for you here in today's episode Before we begin. As Jay mentioned, you can check out our website, touchdownjaguarscom. You can find everything you need in the link tree link of the show notes. You'll find our social media pages there as well and you can find a link to download the Seek Geek app and use our promo code touchdownjaguars. Save yourself $20 off your first purchase with Seek Geek and get yourself some tickets for that home finale here against the Panthers coming up on New Year's Eve. Save yourself some money courtesy of Jay and I, and we appreciate those of you who have used our promo code already throughout the entire season. Thank you, guys, so very much. But, jay, the Jacksonville Jaguars, as we all know, fell to the Baltimore Ravens 23-7. It was a game. I think I saw Nick Wright post this and he really kind of encapsulated the feeling of the game, I think up until probably the fourth quarter. It was so strange because I think you could make the case that the Jaguars could possibly be up 21-7. But the Ravens could also be up way more at the same time, and I don't know that doesn't make sense, but it did as far as the math. Like the math wasn't math then, but I understood what he meant. So I mean just kind of explain your feelings while you were watching the game. You know I talked a little bit about how it felt as far as the energy pregame, but during it, I mean the once again the enthusiasm and the energy of the stadium and the stands really depleted, just as the offense and the defense continue. I mean, continue to struggle. But like the defense, this is again another week, jay, where you can say like they weren't necessarily the problem, like Lamar Jackson, did Lamar Jackson things and this was just a really poor performance from Trevor Lawrence. And the offense again I mean completely abandoning the run that was working pretty well in the first half. Poor clock management, poor ball control, all of that reared its ugly head. And when that happens you get the performance that you get on Sunday Night Football. So walk us through your emotions and how you feel in about 24 hours removed from the game.
Speaker 2:
7:23
Yeah, so it certainly felt like the energy was low watching it from home, which you know like, of course, that's one of the things that kind of stand out when you've been on your first prime time game on in terms of Sunday Night Football for what A while at that. So you know, that was one of the things that stood out to me and, yeah, man, like it was not only that but in terms of how I felt about the game, it was one of the weirdest prime time games or Sunday Night Football games that I have witnessed in a while. Right From the standpoint of just it was a lot of weirdness going on, especially in the first half between the Miss Kicks, you know, the Trevor Lawrence fumble, this, that and the other just felt like the Jaguars, which this has kind of been a growing theme of this offense especially. They just couldn't get out of their own way and up. Peterson, you know kind of said that after in the post game presser. So you know this is something that they are clearly knowledgeable of and what have you? So, in terms of the game itself, I mean, the place to start in, the only right place to start, is the performance of Trevor Lawrence, who just looked terrible. You know, I even said he looked like herb have been coaching them. This is this particular game. Now, he did have the concussion and it speculated that it could have come from the hit that he sustained where he was rushing the ball late in the four quarter. But there were also, you know, some videos out there where he was thrown down for that play, where he was kind of close to it being a safety, but I think he got it out in time but his head hit the ground on that one. Just looking at the replays on that as well. So I think that was more so closer to the first half, maybe second quarter. I'll have to go back and look at it, but those are the plays that are being speculated where he heard himself. If he heard himself during that first the latter one that I mentioned that mean he played a while with the concussion. If he got sustained a concussion from the former hit that I mentioned, then you know he didn't play that long with it. Regardless, you don't want him playing with a concussion. That's not what I'm saying here, but yeah, that's just kind of scary to have somebody play that long with a concussion if it was the latter hit that I mentioned there. But yeah, in terms of him man, he just he looked off the whole night. The fumble was one of the most embarrassing fumbles, as I said earlier, that I've seen in quite some time. I don't know what was going on there Now again, like if it. You know if you can attribute that to the. I don't know if he had been slammed on the ground for that play that I mentioned at that point I'll have to go back and watch it because my timeline is kind of thrown off because the game was so, so bad. But if he was thrown on the ground and he had been like dealing with concussion symptoms there, that might kind of explain that fumble. I'm not sure what to make of that, but it was one of the most embarrassing fumbles I've seen. Otherwise, if that wasn't the case, I put it up in there with the category of the butt fumble. But yeah, that being said, man. You know, just the accuracy wasn't there. And, yeah, a lot of people were critical of Trevor Lawrence and you hate to see it because, like, when he finally has a spotlight on him, he can, you know, shut down the detractors, the Richard Sherman's of the world, my man, that Nick Wright is on the show with as well. That you know. Broussard, broussard, yeah, chris Broussard, who he's talked about, who we have talked about in the as well. You know you can shut those guys down and it just seems like every time the Jaguars have gotten the opportunity, specifically Trevor Lawrence, he hasn't been able to do so. So, you know, not only do you feel bad for him from the perspective of, you know he's been beat up and thrown all over the place, but just he hasn't been able to show everybody that he's that guy on a prime time stage. So you feel bad for him from from that perspective. But we can't have Trevor playing like that. Come to playoffs. If we make the playoffs or these next few games, for that matter, which again I think with Trevor, as I've said in the past, right feel, I don't really worry about him because he's always, like, shown that ability to bounce back. Yeah, it's not fun to be on a roller coaster ride with your, your quarterback. But to his defense, again he's been beat up. He's been hit a lot, probably dealing with some concussion symptoms, either late in the game or, you know, maybe a little bit past that. We'll have to find out more on that. But nonetheless, man, he does have to play better and the criticism is definitely warranted when you look at his performance in terms of last night's game.
Speaker 1:
12:35
Let me ask you, jay, so entering the concussion protocol, is that a confirmation that a player has suffered a concussion? I was under the impression that they were being monitored for concussion like symptoms. Because did we get that confirmation today that he indeed was concussed?
Speaker 2:
12:53
Yeah, I think the concussion protocol and I would have to research this, but off the top of my head I think that's just a monitoring process of watching him over. You know a certain amount of days to watch his symptoms. So, yeah, it's a monitoring process, from how I gather it. And yeah, we'll see. You know, I guess we'll know more on Wednesdays. You know that's when they'll probably like return to the field and yeah, we'll have updates throughout the week as well in terms of just watching the injury report on Wednesday, thursday and Friday as well.
Speaker 1:
13:30
Okay, got it, got it. I was curious about that, but yeah, I mean, you're talking about going into Tampa next week, which is not a gimme. I know some people in the fan base like I've seen them on Twitter saying that it's that will be a win. The Buccaneers are in the middle of a playoff race in the as far as winning their division, and Baker Mayfield just went up to Lambeau Field and made history. I don't know if you guys have seen what Baker Mayfield has been doing, but it's nothing to scoff at. So that is not the easy win that some people are making it out to be. So you're talking about going into Tampa next week without possibly without Trevor and likely without Zay Jones, along with all the other injuries that we already have. So, and we just lost Nathan Rourke to the New England Patriots, as they claimed him here earlier today. We'll kind of maybe touch on that a little bit later, jay, but yeah, I mean, really the only bright spot is, and continues to be, josh Allen. Right, I mean I think I saw this I'm sure you saw this tweet that Josh Allen had a 40.9 percent pass rush win rate per PFF last night, which is insane. That guy, I mean he didn't get home again for the second straight week. But it was another one of those games where, if you're paying attention, he is absolutely all over the place. And as we go into this offseason I know we're looking a little bit ahead, but we have to beg and plead that one he gets his bag right, a trampolky or whoever's in charge we hope it's somebody else in charge. Better not mess around and get this man some help, please. Well, if we could. You imagine, jay and I know it's it's no, there's no point to live in a world of what ifs. It doesn't make any sense, it doesn't do us any good. But just imagine Josh Allen and Chase Young paired up. I mean we're kind of seeing it right now in San Francisco. I mean, heck, jadavion Clowney would be outstanding, you know, to have him as a running mate. And Trayvon Walker has made great strides. He had a great sack last night too. But get this man a consistent running mate and also make sure that he is he is paid properly. But outside of that, I mean we did see a Rayshan Jenkins interception. So that's nice. We know we talked about that. I think in the last few weeks he certainly hasn't played up to the way that he did in the home stretch last year. So it was nice to see him do pretty well. But I mean, like you said, jay, I mean in in the brightest of lights they continue to fall up short. They continue to fall short and give more credence to all the people that continue to doubt them, and they don't give any reason for people to think otherwise when the eyes of the entire nation are on them. So I don't know what that means in terms as far as getting primetime games in the future, but you know, I don't know that even Jaguar fans will want them at this point.
Speaker 2:
16:36
Yeah, I mean and defensively, you really touched on something I wanted to discuss which man? Trayvon Walker looked awesome, man, not just good, he looked awesome. And you know he's looking better by the week, man, but it's just. You know, of course they need an interior force to help them out, and when I say them, I mean him and Josh Allen. And yeah, don't play with Josh Allen's money. Whoever is in charge, go ahead and pay that man. He's shown us that. You know as much as me and Phil have criticized him just for not just being him, but being a guy that was pretty good and needed him next to him. He's proved us wrong. And again, we don't, definitely don't mind admitting. You know, when a player has stepped his game up and Josh Allen is just man, top tier there, I say elite pass rusher, playing at an elite level man, elite leader by the way too. So, yeah, man, him and Trayvon Walker, that is, you know, a bright spot. But yeah, man, just what's hurting this team is the lack of physicality and in the mud, as Trill will put it, and you know that is kind of the case. It's more so the case on offense, which I'll circle back around to that, but it's also the case on defense man, we just not, we don't have the bodies in the trenches, aside from a few people, to be an elite team or beat the elite teams. You know, and that's kind of what dictates why we play the way we play and why we're not physical. And yeah, they definitely need some help there, just as well as on the offensive line, and you know that can I can. You know, like you said, we don't like to live in the world of what ifs and this is a long shot because you know the cons really like Trent bulky for some reason. But you know, we might need to get this Mike Barngunze agenda popping here, feel on this podcast, and he can bring in Chris Jones from the Kansas City Chiefs. I would love that, but I don't want to get anybody hopes up here because we know how incompetent shotgun could be in terms of understanding the game of football. But yeah, man, as you said, also, ray Sean Jenkins stepped this game up looking more so like the 2022 Ray Sean Jenkins, at least he did for that game. So that was that was good to see, because they're going to need him heading forward. They, you know, like these next three games or so they're going to need the guys that were leaders last year to be leaders and they're going to need some guys that didn't step up or weren't in the spotlight last year to help feel that void. That's going to be, you know, needed that they will need to fill up as a result of losing. Guys like Christian Kirk and you know a lot of these guys that are banged up and injured, but he had a good game. Jeremiah led better, who PFF? They gave him a pretty good grade, If I'm not mistaken. Give me one second Let me pull that up. Yeah, he had a 73.8. So he was another guy in the trenches which you know. As we said, we, they kind of need some help there. But again, they just don't have a consistent person in the trenches. Like, sometimes it's led better, sometimes you know it's nobody. You know that's helping Trayvon and helping Josh Allen and we just need a consistent force there, man. So all the more reason to get Chris Jones up in here or somebody to help him out. But yeah, nonetheless, man, yeah, like you said, the defense. They. Sure Lamar Jackson had an MVP type of game in the pocket against them, but he does that against everybody and they did enough for this team to win a game once again, kind of echoing what we said last week. And you know they caused the turnover. They held the Ravens and check for that first half. The Ravens only came out of the first half with 10 points. I mean, you got to win a game. Like you know, when you hold the opposing offense to 10 points for that long, your offense got to do their part and win that game. And that's the case of what happened here. And yeah, man, it's just getting frustrating watching this offense come up short for the defense who, again the defense isn't completely blame, blameless, but they have made a case to the point where they've done enough to win this team games and hopefully this thing turns around where the offense and the defense can play complimentary football to each other.
Speaker 1:
21:08
Yeah, I mean I point to the Dallas game last year, jay, which actually, coincidentally, this is the one year anniversary, I believe, of us covering that game on the sidelines. So shout out to you and me that was a really great day. Point to that Cowboys game. Right, we're in a shootout where offensively they're making big plays. You know, I remember the big pass play to to Zay Jones. I remember Christian Kirk got one and then, even though the defense gave up a lot of points, they still had those moments where they were forcing turnovers and then obviously the Ray Sean Jenkins turnover at the end of the game. We haven't really seen a game like that this season that I can recall. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I mean listen, like you said, trevor definitely deserves a lot of the criticism he is getting here today. It's certainly not as far as the criticism that we see that he is not a franchise quarterback. We're not going to give that any time here this week. But I did see somebody state it that you know they're going to reserve full judgment and full analysis of Trevor until we get a proper offensive line. I mean somebody also said this, like imagine Trevor having the kind of time and protection that Lamar had last night and he's probably cooking. You know what I mean. And listen, a lot of those, some of those passes last night sailed and some of them were inaccurate and then, like you said, the fumble. That cannot happen. That absolutely cannot happen. I mean they're leaving, at bare minimum, nine points on the board, heading into halftime unacceptable. But I mean, listen, if you get that guy an offensive line, like all those quarterbacks you talked about this past week on Twitter and the GMs that they've been paired with and they have the protection that they have, then let's see what Trevor really is. Once he gets that proper protection, go ahead.
Speaker 2:
23:00
Yeah, man, you, you. That's a good way to segue into what I wanted to talk about there, man is. I circle back around to that tweet that I put out saying that Patrick Mahomes has Brett Beach, very well respected GM, right, and people just keep poaching from that Kansas City chief's tree that Brett Beach is produced. Lamar Jackson has Eric Dicosta we just played him last week, so look at what he's built around Lamar Jackson. Jaylin Hertz has Howie Roseman. Howie Roseman is very well on his way to maybe getting another Super Bowl, so you know, not much to discuss there. And Josh Allen has Brandon Bean, very well respected GM as well for the Buffalo Bills. But it didn't dawn on me until I went back and looked at that tweet that you just mentioned and I, you know, went ahead and added a comment to it is all four of those GMs and some of the others you know that are a tier below them, have put great offensive lines around their quarterbacks, right. And here we have Trent Balkie, who I can't say that Trent hasn't put the resources into the offensive line, but I just don't know that Trent knows what he's doing. You know he's paid. Hey, can Robinson a lot of money, right, and can Robinson. We come up to the month of December area and can Robinson, who plays a premium position and this is not me saying that can Robinson is weak or anything but from a standpoint of availability, can Robinson has not been there in the month of December Frequently for a quarterback who needs him and needs that premium, you know, needs somebody that is a veteran at that position. You look at Balkie's decision to draft Luke Fortner. Luke Fortner has struggled mightily and it, you know, a lot of people would say it looks like Luke Fortner didn't spend a lick of time, and we know this isn't true. But just he gets beat physically so badly to the point where people it's like did he spend any time in the weight room during the offseason and during the preseason and what have you? So that's another tremendous miss on Trent Balkie's part. Now Anton, again, like I said last week, you know we will have to hold our judgment on him. He's a rookie and I mean he has shown promise at times. So you know he's a guy we got a whole lot of reservations on. Ezra Cleveland is another one. And you know maybe he gets extended and we could get more time to evaluate him next year. But when you look at the guys that I just mentioned Robinson and Fortner, and then Brandon Scherf has not been what we paid for either. That's another tremendous miss by Trent Balkie. It's clear is day that he doesn't know what he's doing in terms of building the resources that Trevor Lawrence needs around him. So that's another reason why you know Trevor Lawrence deserves a lot of blame for the performance, the terrible performance that we saw today. But, as you said, the GMs that the Jaguars are going to be facing and the teams and the organizations that the Jacksonville Jaguars are going to be facing if they make the playoffs, and the teams that they're struggling to beat in the regular season, All have that common variable that I just mentioned and tweeted about is that Brett Beach, Eric DeCosta, Howie Roseman, Brandon Bean all have built top 10 or 11 in the case of the Chiefs, Top 11 offensive lines around their quarterbacks. And if Trevor Lawrence had the offensive lines that these four quarterbacks I named and these four organizations that I named, the Jacksonville Jaguars are probably at 10 wins right now. There's no doubt in my mind that they are because for one, they can lean on Travis ETN to alleviate some pressure off of Trevor Lawrence for one. Travis ETN probably not as beat up. You know he was dealing with a rib injury earlier in the season. I don't know if he's still on the injury report for that, but he's less beat up. He's had more success doing what he does best and you know when you can mix a constant threat of the run into the mix for a quarterback, that's when he can take off. That's when he can reach that next level and I don't think Trevor Lawrence is going to be able to do that. Becoming a quarterback that has to drop back as much as he has and had to rely on his arm as much as he has which he can do that on occasions but you don't want to have a quarterback do that, especially when you have, again, all the skilled guys that we have ETN included around him. This offense could really take off and that's what's missing. Also, in terms of you know everybody scratching their heads and you know overthinking this thing. Let's not overthink this thing. When you look at Doug Peterson's team from 2017 and how they won the Super Bowl, they dominated in the trenches, they made Carson Wentz you can argue and Nick Foals look better than they were, and that's what Trevor Lawrence does not have and he hasn't had since he's been here. And I think if he does get that which you know, time will tell. If they they fixed that, the Jacksonville Jaguars will then be able to compete with the elite teams Once they get physical in the trenches, can move people out the ball and can actually run the ball and stop moving laterally so much. By the way, this offense is very lateral, not vertical. It's very lateral. But the reason they are lateral is because of what feel the offensive line not having enough time, not being able to establish the run game, that's. It is as simple as that for everybody that's overthinking this thing. It's as simple as that. Football is a fundamental game and one of the fundamentals that makes a offense go, especially when you have a young quarterback, is having a offensive line that can not only keep him upright but can help him mix the run game into the mix and can help him throw the ball vertically. And once we get that fix, or if we get that fix, then we can start having these conversations about the Jacksonville Jaguars going to the playoffs, making noise in the playoffs or going to the Super Bowl.
Speaker 1:
29:20
Yeah, this team just simply is not good enough to compete with the top tier teams. We got some good wins, definitely, and that was great, but I mean, this is kind of like that stretch that we were talking about in the beginning of the year, like we wanted to get those wins that we knew were gettable, and then they had this stretch of games where it's like, all right, let's see what they're all about. And here we are, december 18th, on a three game losing streak. Go ahead, janna, you had something you wanted to add.
Speaker 2:
29:53
And, by the way, another example of what I'm talking about when it comes to this offensive line issue and defensive line issue two in some cases, because they're not physical enough either between Josh Allen and Trayvon Walker, another prime example of what having the right offensive line can do for your quarterback. Look no further than within our own division with the Houston Texans and the Indianapolis Colts. Indianapolis Colts, per PFF, have what Top eight offensive line you know they're doing just fine with gardener men's shoe and look like they will make the playoffs as a wild card. You look at what the Houston Texans have in the trenches I think they're probably a top 15 offensive line and look at what CJ Stroud is doing. The difference is is what's in front of their quarterbacks. When you look at what the difference is between them and Trevor Lawrence and you know I don't think a case can be made any better than that for Trevor Lawrence when you look within our very own division, Right, so that needs to get fixed immediately.
Speaker 1:
31:10
There is a tweet from last night, Jay. I sent it to the group chat, but I think it just kind of got lost in everything we were discussing and I'll bring it back a little bit. I'll talk about a poll that T-Wig ran, probably a couple of weeks ago, maybe a week or so ago, and the poll was something along the lines of would you rather make the playoffs and retain the general manager, or miss the playoffs? And there'd be a change in the front office. You know completely, of course, including Trampolki, and I know a lot of people that sparked a lot of conversation and that led to a reply from one of his followers here earlier or last night, I should say, and stated the front office screwed this up the most, bought into last year's win streak, seemingly forgetting how bad they were. Early on, Falkie thought we were in a position for luxury picks and neglected the needs we already had, and I thought that nailed a lot of what is wrong right now. Now, that's a good point, because sometimes and we see this in all sports teams just go on a roll right Like I think we can admit that the Jaguar is overachieved last year and they just got on a heater and rode that wave until the divisional round, where they ran into the eventual Super Bowl champions. Right, We've seen that before, even with this team. We've seen that within franchise history. We've seen that happen before. So we're going to talk about Trampolki again here on the second half of this episode because, as we've already mentioned, he is not on the level of those other GMs that we have talked about. There was even some discussion about the general manager from the chargers that was just let go, and I don't think it's a stretch to say that if he were to be brought in, that he wouldn't be the best executive that's ever been in this building, based on what he did with the chargers. Now, granted, that is Tom, tell us, go, by the way.
Speaker 2:
33:07
Yeah, there you go, yep.
Speaker 1:
33:09
Granted. That didn't work out on the field, but he put the teams together and I think you can make the argument that the chargers have underachieved, especially in the Justin Herbert era. I think that tweet really breaks down a lot of it. For the second straight week, tank Bigsby logged one play. He came in on a running play where Travis Etienne was also running the football very well on that drive and then they put Tank Bigsby in, gets either negative yards or no yards and they pull him back out His only game time that he saw all night. Breton Strange, I believe. He's injured right now, jay, I think, but he had a touchdown earlier in the season, but other than that we haven't really heard his name whatsoever. So we don't have a lot of confidence in what's going to happen in terms of Calvin Ridley or his ability to bring in and land a big fish like a T Higgins or a Mike Evans. As far as improving the receiver class and the offensive line and defensive line, outside of a couple of bright spots, are kind of in shambles. So I want to get your opinion on that. Do you think that that Twitter user hit the nail on the head? Just how do you feel in general about what this team needs to do and also answer that question Would you what do you think? Would you rather fall backwards into the playoffs and maybe lose at home, because as of right now I think they would match up with Cleveland, which I definitely don't want to see. Would you rather them sneak into the playoffs and possibly lose in the wild called round and they use their game and possibly losing the wild called round and they use that as a excuse to keep Trent bulky around? Or do you think they need to maybe suffer a little? You know, suffer a little embarrassment, not get in and then hopefully that be the push that shotgun needs to say OK, we need to make a change in general manager.
Speaker 2:
35:00
Yeah, well, first I'll start with the draft class, which the one thing that we said that we liked about the draft class was, you know, they, they helped themselves with depth from a depth perspective. So, yeah, we're documented for saying we like that part of the draft class. The problem is, though, is, as you know, you just said, and as was mentioned in this conversation, is it seems that Trent bulky came out of last year feeling like the team needed more depth than more starters, and the good GMs are able to evaluate that kind of thing though. You know. The good GMs know when they team their teams overachieved and they know when, despite what they saw on the field, more help is needed, not from a depth standpoint but from a standpoint of starters. And when you look at what the Jaguars did at the top, again like from a depth perspective and a quantity perspective, fine, ok, but from when you look at this thing from the top of the draft class we already talked about Anton, I might get that Cam Robinson was going to be out for some time. You know that actually might work out, you know. So we won't talk about that one too much because we already have. But round two, britain Strange, like you said, not really been a factor, aside from maybe, you know, in the run game, and he's been injured. But that pick, you know, even when they made that pick, a lot of people's mindsets were like, well, you know, it was maybe some better tight ends that they could have gotten that may have been available or maybe they should have traded up for. And yeah, we're kind of seeing it too Like you look at guys who again, I don't know if they were taken before Strange or after him, but you look at that, that tight end class was just one of the things we were gloating about, like Sam LaPorte came out of the class, so on and so forth, and he's looking actually good, by the way, but I think he was taken in the top of the second round, if I can recall. But yeah, you look at like Britain Strange and that pick at number 61, they could have probably better used that pick than what they did with it. Tate Bigsby, who can't hold on to the ball, and you know De'Ernis Johnson, which that was kind of weird from the standpoint of they had just got De'Ernis out of free agency. Why do you go over to running back third round pick there? It's probably the bigger question, and more so like the evaluation that went into it, because you know Tate Bigsby just looks lost and don't look like he's an NFL player, which you can look back at the time at Auburn. He did at that point, but again goes back to evaluations. That's why you pay Trent bulky to make these decisions and, at the very least, provide you with some starter, quality players in the top of the draft, the first three rounds. That's what you want to come away from. Nothing has changed in terms of you know how teams should draft from the perspective of you want to come away with starters in the top three rounds. If you aren't an elite team and the Jacksonville Jack Wars weren't elite Trent bulky should have known they weren't elite. If he was good at his job, he should have known that. And here we are. We have three players, or well, I'll say two. Don't want to put Anton in there because he's protecting Trevor Lawrence on the right side, but we have two players here who we're scratching our heads about and aren't contributing anything at all to an offense that needs them very, very desperately at this point. Those are tremendous misses. And you know, of course, like I said, we won't talk about the rest of the class because those typically are non-starters. So there's that. And then, in terms of the question of what I like to miss, the playoffs and you know that cause a change at GM. I don't think. Even if they missed the playoffs I don't think that would happen is the problem. But if getting a new GM in here was the result of missing the playoffs, sign me up all the way to miss the playoffs and stop wasting Trevor Lawrence's career, paired up with Trent Balkie, and let's fix this right now. Nip this in the bud, get this taken care of right now and not give Trent Balkie another year with Trevor Lawrence. Let's do it right now. Sign me up. Lose to the Panthers OK, if that's needed. If that's what's going to happen, if Trent Balkie's going to be removed from their front office, lose to the Panthers, lose to the Tampa Bay Bucks, lose to the and this pains me to say lose to the Tennessee Titans. Because ultimately, again, if you can get Trevor Lawrence paired up with the right GM, you probably, in my opinion, the right GM the guys that I've named in terms of GM candidates. I like you. It's a very strong possibility. If you're not looking at a dynasty, you're looking at a team that can routinely go to the playoffs and threaten the AFC for AFC championship. That's just me. That's just me. That's just how I feel on it. So the answer to that question I don't think, mason, the playoffs would get Trent out of there, but if it did, man, sign me all the way up. And then the last part you said about in terms of the comment that the guy made in that particular question I guess I kind of just answered that when I broke down the draft is how the draft was handled and how the Jaguars came away from the top three rounds with just one starter. So that kind of answers that question. And also, too, just kind of piggyback off of that as well. Also, how they treated free agency. They had an ineffective free agency period. Trent Balkie, whether it was for financial reasons or whatever the case may be, he took the approach of, hey, we're going to run it back with what we have, and the elite GMs don't do that, I don't care if they strap for cash, or the good GMs don't do that, they don't look at the financial situation and say that's not a reason to get better. Now some of them have to do it through the draft, which Trent Balkie has shown he's incapable of doing. But some of them, if they don't have the cap space, they say screw it, let's make it. Let's make the cap space. Let's need is notorious for that man Like I'll find some cap space to sign somebody in. For those of you who don't know who less need is, that's the Rams guy.
Speaker 1:
41:46
That's the Rams GM.
Speaker 2:
41:47
So you know that didn't help either the approach that they took in terms of free agency and just believing in running back what they had and just not having to wear with all or the mind set, or whatever the case may be, to figure it out and add more through free agency as well.
Speaker 1:
42:08
Yeah, and with a big time free agency class looming when it comes to some wide receiver targets, like he's going to need to be on point to a level in which we have never seen him do so. And you know I hate to do this, but like, let's play that. One of our favorite games here on the podcast is you know, who do we miss out on? And listen, every team in the NFL can do this, right. So there's. You know this isn't specifically for the NFL, it's specific to the Jacksonville Jaguars. But I mean, when you look at those picks, you know, breton Strange, tank Bigsby, like you said, jay, I believe Sam LaPorta was already gone at that point. Yeah, he won 34th overall. But I mean, let's just throw out some other names. How about Pukinakua, round five pick, number 177, right? How about Tank Dell, round three pick?
Speaker 2:
43:01
69? Well, phil, I will say this Not to defend Balkie here, but he got Parker Washington late, kind of like Nakua was a later, that's true.
Speaker 1:
43:11
So that one I you know we'll, was that six round fifth round, Right?
Speaker 2:
43:15
Yeah, We'll shoot him a little bit along here. We're not that mean. I guess he still isn't good at his job though.
Speaker 1:
43:24
Yeah, I mean, I'm just saying like I totally get a listen. Parker Washington is great, but wouldn't you rather have Tank Dell?
Speaker 2:
43:31
Absolutely, absolutely. And the writing was the writing was on the wall for Tank Dell. All we could see on the time during the month of January during the senior bowl, was Tank Dell cuts, how he looked at the senior bowl, how he was out there breaking ankles, you know, like the rain was on the wall for that kid man, like it didn't get any clearer than the display he put on. Not just in January at the senior bowl, though, but you know before that, when he was in college as well, man, so like that's one of those ones where it's like man, like everybody pointed at that guy.
Speaker 1:
44:08
How about this one, jay Davani, chain round three, pick 84.
Speaker 2:
44:12
That's another one, that's another. You know what we can we can really blame Trent for that, and here's why Trent Balker is taking a running back in every draft class that he's had, or, if not that, every draft class that he's had as a Jaguar's GM. So, that being said, if there is any position that he should be able to evaluate and hit on is running back, and, by the way, running back is one of the easier positions to hit on in the draft, by the way. So the fact that he swung and miss on running back so many times on some guys that I, admittedly, I liked but again, he's the one that gets paid for this the fact that he's missed and now you mentioned that one as well on a position he invested in year in and year out, yeah, that doesn't look great at all. You're right.
Speaker 1:
45:04
Yeah, we're a Snoop Connor right now. Is he on the practice squad or is he just out of the league?
Speaker 2:
45:09
Practice squad. I think I saw him on the sideline the other day.
Speaker 1:
45:12
Okay, Now granted, devon A-Chain went four picks ahead of Tank Bigsby. So if everything stayed the way that they that it was. You know you're talking about A-Chain going in the second round, which I don't know if that was something that was on the board for anybody, but I mean, strange taking a pick 61, a-chain going at 84. Going back and looking at draft classes is, you know, when it comes down to it, it is kind of a waste of time, but it is as far as like talking about the point that we are trying to make, like this is. These are the kind of things that we're discussing here Because, again, trent Bulkey, like you said, he is not good at his job and I've just gotten so sick and tired. I know you have as well, and a lot of people in our camp have as well, you know of this, this bulky masterclass nonsense that I kept having to hear over and over again. And listen, we gave him praise for, for taking the opportunity to bring Calvin Ridley in, but now that that doesn't appear to be working out, we're worried that, honestly, jay, what I think is going to happen, they're going to sign him to like a one in one or I don't know if they do a. No, they don't do player options. And if I write that's a basketball thing, but they might give him a two year deal and we lose that second round pick and ultimately not you know, not be able to bring in or land a T Higgins, mike Evans, whoever it may be, again, we don't think bulky is going to outbid anybody anyway, but I feel I'm worried that we're going to come into next year with this same receiving class and just try to run it back Because again, like you said, for some, as Trent Bulkey, he has have some sort of dirt on the cons. I don't know what it is, but they just love this guy and I, for the life of me, can't figure it out.
Speaker 2:
46:56
Yeah, well, the good news is this feel I've already put a plan in place to help fix the Jaguars receiver group. All right, and hear me out on this now. This is something that you will agree with me on, because I know you will, because I know you and you like this guy as well. Let's just nip this all in the bud and draft AD Mitchell.
Speaker 1:
47:19
Take him 20 whatever.
Speaker 2:
47:21
There you go, take him 20, whatever the F we're going to be drafting, take him there. You got your guy that can get you a deep threat. You know you got your guy. That's young, that's on a cheap deal, and let him cook with Trevor, of course. Now, look, now we got to get better in the trenches so we can get vertical and stop doing all this lateral stuff. But yeah, why not take AD Mitchell? You know that's an option. I mean, I'm cool with T Higgins, of course, because of the report with you know Trevor and what have you. I mean, heck, you know not that bulky has this in him to do it. But shoot, come away out of the offseason with T Higgins or Mike Evans and AD Mitchell, you know like. But if not that, at least come out of the offseason with AD Mitchell. In my opinion, that's just me though. Problem fixed by the well, see?
Speaker 1:
48:11
well, the problem with that J is that Texas is going to win the national championship and AD Mitchell is going to climb up the receiver boards right behind Marvin Jones Jr. So unfortunately he's not going to be don't wish that voodoo on AD Mitchell.
Speaker 2:
48:25
Okay, I mean well that is a voodoo because he would have a national championship.
Speaker 1:
48:29
That would be his second one by the way it's my, it's my time, guys, you deserve it, man, you deserve it.
Speaker 2:
48:35
I didn't think, texas would be here.
Speaker 1:
48:38
So here we are. But yeah, I mean, I think a lot of us understand that you can't run the same group back out there. I think you can probably make the argument that Christian Kirk and Parker Washington get to stay and everything else. You can kind of clean house, oh, evan Ingram, obviously. So those three get to. You know you start there and then you improve for inside out. Obviously, offensive line then wide receiver Travis Etienne now needs some help as well. I mean, he's going to draft another damn running back and what. The fourth round that's not going to play. And then Tank Bigsby is going to join Snoop Connor on the practice squad. Is that what's going to happen? Is that what we're going to do every year, guys? I don't. I mean I don't get like you said. I would much rather I guess from a selfish standpoint save me some money. I would rather them miss the playoffs and have the team do an overhaul in the front office, as opposed to me spending $175 on a playoff game where we get embarrassed in front of a national audience again against Houston or God forbid Indianapolis. I don't think it would be, I don't think Andy would come in here and win, but or Cleveland or whoever it's going to be in a Buffalo Now it looks like a totally different team. We play good against Buffalo, but still watching them at home now is just so stressful and not fun that this is where a lot of us are at. You know like we pay a lot of money to see this team be successful and this is the best team we've we fielded in a while. It's so strange when they're talking about an eight-win football team in this manner, but they're simply not good enough and that's what it's going to take for us to take that next step and, like you said, jb, on the road to a dynasty, with a quarterback coach and GM combo that we think can lead us to championships, then so be it. I'll take the hit this year. I don't care, it will be a long off season, but you know what? I don't give a damn. That's what I think needs to happen.
Speaker 2:
50:41
It's no different than wanting to lose out on the season where we got Trevor Lawrence. You know like, after the Jets were foolish enough to, you know, beat the Rams, nobody wanted any parts of winning any more during that season. Right, because we knew what was at stake long term and what piece we could get that could help this team long term. It's no different than that. We're not going to a Super Bowl with Trent Baalke, and I know I made the comparison to Bill Polian last week, which we got a sound bite on where you know, I said Bill Polian won one Super Bowl with Peyton Manning. We don't want that. But the more I think about it, I don't think Trent Baalke is even capable of winning the one Super Bowl that Bill Polian won. But I do think he's similar in the standpoint of he's getting by off of having Doug Peterson and having Trevor Lawrence, or falling flat back on Trevor Lawrence. He's wowing a lot of people or you know, that's what's getting him by and that's what's making him look better than he is. But going back to my initial point, what I was saying is it's a long term goal, like it's a long term thing, like what can we do to make this thing sustainable for more than four years and years and years and make us consistent for years and years. Again, trent Baalke is the answer to that. So again, it's similar to it. I look at this as that question of that was asked, of what we rather lose out on the playoffs this year and it costs, you know it come at the expense of Trent Baalke exiting the Jaguars organization. I look at it similarly to wanting to lose out the year that we had Trevor Lawrence at stake with the first overall pick, because, again, like it can lead to something where you never have to lose again. If you get Trent Baalke out of here, you get the right GM out of here, you don't have to worry about losing for a very, very long time. So that's where I stand on that. And, yeah, heading forward, we'll just name this the Draft 80 Mitchell podcast, by the way. So I want to throw that out there.
Speaker 1:
52:54
Hey, I am all about it with a new hive, 80 Mitchell hive. Let's do it and let's watch him win a national championship with my Texas Longhorns. But, jay, it is strange to have conversations like this when the team is technically like you mentioned all the way in the beginning of this episode a team that is still in charge of their own destiny. I mean, win out and you win the AFC South and you host a wild card game. But we know, and I think a lot of fans know, that this team isn't good enough to win a Super Bowl. Hence why neither one of us put them in the Super Bowl this year when it came to our predictions. By the way, mine's looking real good right now and we get a preview on Monday night next week Raven's Niners. If the Niners roll over the Ravens day, then we should just maybe just wrap it up honestly, just skip the postseason altogether, because I don't know who's going to beat that team. But the team's not good enough and changes need to be made. So you know. Hence, that's why we're having this conversation, because we know they can be great if the correct changes are implemented, if the cons have the you know the goal to do what they need to do. I'll say that. So, jay, anything else you want to mention as we wrap up this episode? Another really great one, and you know we appreciate the feedback from last week's episode as well. The numbers are really solid. We thank you guys for listening. Anything else you want to mention as we wrap up here tonight, jay?
Speaker 2:
54:18
No, that's it, man. I mean, obviously it looks like heading forward. We need to get Shotgun and Tony Kahn or one or the other on the podcast, or heck, maybe even get Trent.
Speaker 1:
54:29
Poggi on the podcast. Right Since we I've tweeted some stuff about AEW. I don't know that he wants to talk to me.
Speaker 2:
54:36
Look man, part of growing your brand and becoming better is not avoiding what needs to be said, man. So come on the podcast and talk to us about it, man. We'll be cordial, we'll be professional.
Speaker 1:
54:49
Yeah, we would love to. We would definitely love that.
Speaker 2:
54:52
Like I was saying, maybe even get Trent on the podcast. I got a boatload of questions as much as I've talked about Trent on this podcast. Make no mistake about it, man, we keep it professional and I have a boatload of questions to ask him. Man, if the list is long, the list is long. So we actually tried that before he became a GM, when he was just in the front office with Dave Kahl. We got the climb, but, yeah, man Wouldn't mind asking him some questions as well. But yeah, man, a good episode, as you said, we appreciate the support. The numbers were good. Can't wait Win, lose, tie or draw, hopefully through a win, or maybe, if I want to get Bawke out of here, through a loss. But hopefully the next episode will be just as exciting. Can't wait for it. And yeah, enjoy this one, as always, man.
Speaker 1:
55:42
Yeah, tampa Bay up next and, like I said, that's definitely not a push over win, as we'll see what happens and we don't even know which quarterback we're going to get when it comes to that Christmas Eve game. So, folks, thank you so much for listening. Next week's episode will probably come out as expected, as it normally does On Wednesdays. We do have Christmas coming up on the, of course, a week from today at the time of recording. So, for those of you that do celebrate Merry Christmas, if you don't, happy holidays, treat yourself good, hang out with your friends, hang out with your family. Just do something nice for yourself and be good to yourself as well. So we thank you guys so much for all the support on this podcast and make sure to check out that link, tree link. In the show notes You'll find the website. All of our socials. Seek each link, use our promo code, touchdown Jaguars all of that good stuff. But, folks, I am Phil Smith, that is my co-host. James Johnson, don't forget to touch down Jaguars for every Jaguar touchdown and we'll see you next week.
