Episode 366 – Old Man Yells At Cloud

December 28, 2023

Episode Transcript

In this episode, Ben and Scott touched on some updates on their social media presence due to some recent happenings in the social media services space. As they transition into the Microsoft cloud world, they discuss updates to cloud computing software and user experience design. They also provided some insight into conditional access policies and break-glass accounts and examined strategies for managing these elements for optimal efficiency. They wrapped up their conversation on a contemplative note about the future of native apps versus progressive web apps (PWAs), and some frustrations about the increasing trend towards PWAs.

It’s also the season of giving, and we’re raising money for Girls Who Code. Donate today at https://give.girlswhocode.com/msclouditpro!

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Show Notes

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1 00:00:03,365 --> 00:00:06,095 - Welcome to episode 366 2 00:00:06,115 --> 00:00:08,495 of the Microsoft Cloud IT Pro Podcast 3 00:00:09,095 --> 00:00:11,575 recorded live on December 8th, 2023. 4 00:00:12,085 --> 00:00:14,535 This is a show about Microsoft 365 5 00:00:14,535 --> 00:00:16,615 and Azure from the perspective of it pros 6 00:00:16,615 --> 00:00:19,855 and end users where we discuss a topic or recent news 7 00:00:19,915 --> 00:00:21,135 and how it relates to you. 8 00:00:21,515 --> 00:00:24,335 In this episode, we discuss some changes to where 9 00:00:24,355 --> 00:00:25,655 to find us on social media. 10 00:00:26,165 --> 00:00:28,495 Then we dive into our technical discussion 11 00:00:28,495 --> 00:00:31,255 around conditional access and break glass accounts 12 00:00:31,475 --> 00:00:34,855 and managing these security aspects of Microsoft Entra. 13 00:00:35,075 --> 00:00:38,735 We conclude the episode discussing native apps versus 14 00:00:39,295 --> 00:00:41,535 progressive web apps or PWAs 15 00:00:41,755 --> 00:00:43,575 and some of our recent frustrations 16 00:00:43,685 --> 00:00:46,335 with this trend toward those PWAs. 17 00:00:48,795 --> 00:00:49,935 You know, what was a mistake? 18 00:00:50,295 --> 00:00:52,415 - I can tell you what my mistake was this week. You 19 00:00:52,415 --> 00:00:53,895 - Could, I don't know what my mistake was. 20 00:00:54,135 --> 00:00:56,415 I could tell you what Elon Musk's mistake was. 21 00:00:57,155 --> 00:00:59,175 That's a long list. , we don't have time for that. 22 00:00:59,805 --> 00:01:01,375 Okay, what was your mistake this week? 23 00:01:01,605 --> 00:01:03,255 - Hold on, I gotta do this joke. 24 00:01:03,515 --> 00:01:07,815 So Elon pulled the go f yourself thing at 25 00:01:07,815 --> 00:01:10,215 that conference last week to all advertisers, 26 00:01:10,285 --> 00:01:13,095 like called out Bob Iger everybody, 27 00:01:13,235 --> 00:01:15,415 - And then told him he should resign, right? Yes. 28 00:01:15,855 --> 00:01:18,695 - . So there's, I am, I'm done with Twitter. 29 00:01:18,735 --> 00:01:20,695 I don't, I don't go on Twitter. Like I didn't delete my 30 00:01:20,695 --> 00:01:22,455 account, but I deleted all the apps, blah, blah, blah. 31 00:01:22,455 --> 00:01:23,535 I, I, I made you, oh, 32 00:01:23,535 --> 00:01:24,815 - I didn't know you haven't deleted it. 33 00:01:24,875 --> 00:01:26,935 You talked about deleting it. You have not though. 34 00:01:27,175 --> 00:01:28,575 - I deleted the apps and all that stuff. Okay. 35 00:01:28,575 --> 00:01:29,815 But I figured like the handles there, 36 00:01:29,885 --> 00:01:31,095 like they'll take it away someday. 37 00:01:31,295 --> 00:01:32,535 I, I don't, I don't care. Whatever. 38 00:01:32,915 --> 00:01:34,255 And then I made you go through 39 00:01:34,355 --> 00:01:36,935 and update, you know, like I just want it 40 00:01:36,935 --> 00:01:38,175 to be my threads handle and, 41 00:01:38,195 --> 00:01:39,575 and MAs it on and things like that. 42 00:01:39,875 --> 00:01:41,975 And neither here nor there. So I get all my Twitter news 43 00:01:42,085 --> 00:01:43,615 through threads these days. 44 00:01:43,995 --> 00:01:46,135 So apparently there's an account, it's called 45 00:01:46,755 --> 00:01:47,775 uh, fab Bit Fun. 46 00:01:47,975 --> 00:01:50,015 I don't know, it's some service that's out there. 47 00:01:50,295 --> 00:01:52,495 I don't know what this thing is, but they 48 00:01:53,075 --> 00:01:54,735 ran a Twitter campaign 49 00:01:55,075 --> 00:01:56,735 and they called out 50 00:01:56,765 --> 00:01:59,455 that they are pledging an additional a hundred thousand 51 00:01:59,475 --> 00:02:02,975 of X advertising in support of its free speech ideals. 52 00:02:03,555 --> 00:02:04,895 And to all of you looking 53 00:02:05,075 --> 00:02:06,695 for a free perfect gift this holiday, 54 00:02:06,865 --> 00:02:10,255 we're also giving away a free 300 plus dollars gift 55 00:02:10,565 --> 00:02:14,935 with your first box for new annual X users use code. 56 00:02:15,635 --> 00:02:20,415 Go f yourself. Except they spelled out F which apparently 57 00:02:21,035 --> 00:02:25,335 led to a slew of people discontinuing the service 58 00:02:25,895 --> 00:02:28,135 like actually saying like, Hey, um, 59 00:02:28,165 --> 00:02:32,335 that might not have been a good idea to use uh, 60 00:02:32,575 --> 00:02:36,215 a profanity in your like professional account kind of thing. 61 00:02:36,635 --> 00:02:38,975 But yeah, so they did that out. They ran that campaign. 62 00:02:39,555 --> 00:02:42,935 And much like Elon losing advertisers 63 00:02:43,295 --> 00:02:44,295 'cause hey, uh, 64 00:02:44,515 --> 00:02:46,695 he might not be the stable genius we all thought he was, 65 00:02:46,965 --> 00:02:51,055 they are also bleeding customers from this subscription 66 00:02:51,055 --> 00:02:52,135 product that they have. 67 00:02:52,595 --> 00:02:54,335 So I thought that was kind of hilarious. 68 00:02:54,335 --> 00:02:55,895 There's gonna be some great case studies 69 00:02:56,395 --> 00:02:58,255 and great movies someday about 70 00:02:58,475 --> 00:03:03,125 how you can literally light $40 billion on fire, 44 billion 71 00:03:03,705 --> 00:03:05,005 and just put a match to it. 72 00:03:05,005 --> 00:03:06,325 Yeah. Destroy people's lives. 73 00:03:06,325 --> 00:03:07,645 Like people who work for that company 74 00:03:07,645 --> 00:03:08,845 destroy a company itself. 75 00:03:08,845 --> 00:03:10,125 Like all that kinda stuff. 76 00:03:10,125 --> 00:03:11,925 Like they're, they're gonna be talking about this crap in 77 00:03:12,085 --> 00:03:14,445 business school like 20 years from now . There 78 00:03:14,865 --> 00:03:17,125 - Are a few documentaries I'm waiting for 79 00:03:17,465 --> 00:03:18,765 that's gonna be one of them. 80 00:03:19,145 --> 00:03:22,765 The other one is going to be everything that went 81 00:03:23,635 --> 00:03:25,565 down with. 82 00:03:25,695 --> 00:03:27,605 Sorry, I just saw a message that distracted me 83 00:03:27,605 --> 00:03:29,125 and I don't know what it was about 84 00:03:29,225 --> 00:03:30,445 but we'll come back to that later. 85 00:03:30,965 --> 00:03:33,125 I should put do not disturb on the other one I wanna see a 86 00:03:33,285 --> 00:03:35,885 documentary on is everything that happened with AI 87 00:03:36,305 --> 00:03:39,685 and coming and leaving and going and coming back 88 00:03:39,825 --> 00:03:42,125 and firing people and all of that. 89 00:03:42,455 --> 00:03:46,125 There are going to be some fabulous documentaries coming out 90 00:03:46,125 --> 00:03:47,525 of these last two or three months 91 00:03:47,745 --> 00:03:50,965 or six months about Twitter and about open ai. 92 00:03:51,505 --> 00:03:54,045 And then when the bots take over the world, 93 00:03:54,305 --> 00:03:56,525 - We haven't talked about the whole OpenAI thing, 94 00:03:56,705 --> 00:03:58,125 but for those that are interested, 95 00:03:58,155 --> 00:03:59,965 I'll put some links in the show notes. 96 00:04:00,475 --> 00:04:02,005 There's an a couple 97 00:04:02,025 --> 00:04:05,445 of excellent other podcasts out there that have covered it very well. 98 00:04:05,445 --> 00:04:07,205 Like they, they covered it on the Vergecast 99 00:04:07,625 --> 00:04:09,445 and also, uh, Casey Newton 100 00:04:09,445 --> 00:04:12,685 and his partner in crime in the Hard Hard Fork podcast. 101 00:04:13,675 --> 00:04:16,645 They did a really good job kind of covering things. 102 00:04:16,665 --> 00:04:19,845 And then Casey Newton has a interview with Sam Alton, uh, 103 00:04:19,865 --> 00:04:21,645 Sam Altman rather before and 104 00:04:21,645 --> 00:04:24,685 after , which is kind of awkward and kind of fun. 105 00:04:24,885 --> 00:04:27,205 - I have not watched that. I should go look up that. 106 00:04:27,395 --> 00:04:29,245 I'll add that to my list. That one I will add to my list 107 00:04:29,305 --> 00:04:31,245 and I will go do . 108 00:04:32,275 --> 00:04:33,685 - Yeah, that's the one that'll get you 109 00:04:33,685 --> 00:04:34,685 - There. 110 00:04:34,685 --> 00:04:35,085 Yep. That one will get me there. 111 00:04:35,705 --> 00:04:39,605 I'm from documentaries news. I have an interesting one. 112 00:04:39,605 --> 00:04:41,485 Scott, I'm curious what you think about this. 113 00:04:41,805 --> 00:04:43,285 I have some thoughts about this one. 114 00:04:43,765 --> 00:04:46,245 I have some questions about this one. 115 00:04:47,305 --> 00:04:52,125 And this is has, I mean I guess that has a little bit 116 00:04:52,125 --> 00:04:56,685 to do with admins if you wanna enable this in your tenant. 117 00:04:57,665 --> 00:04:59,925 But there is a much awaited calendaring 118 00:04:59,925 --> 00:05:01,085 feature coming to Outlook. 119 00:05:01,345 --> 00:05:03,445 The capability of keeping events you 120 00:05:03,595 --> 00:05:05,685 decline on your calendar. 121 00:05:06,505 --> 00:05:10,045 So this, yeah, this does not look like, 122 00:05:10,265 --> 00:05:12,805 so it's not even an admin, it's not enabled by default. 123 00:05:13,785 --> 00:05:16,405 You can go into Outlook on the web 124 00:05:16,625 --> 00:05:17,885 or the new outlook for Windows. 125 00:05:18,365 --> 00:05:20,525 I don't see this for Mac oss yet. 126 00:05:21,465 --> 00:05:24,685 And in the settings, calendars, events 127 00:05:24,825 --> 00:05:28,885 and invitations, you can go toggle an option, 128 00:05:28,885 --> 00:05:32,245 click a checkbox to save declined events 129 00:05:32,425 --> 00:05:35,405 and then once it's enabled you can decline events 130 00:05:35,505 --> 00:05:37,205 and they'll still be preserved on your calendar. 131 00:05:37,925 --> 00:05:39,765 Thoughts. Is this something you'll use 132 00:05:40,065 --> 00:05:43,565 and yeah, what do you think about this one Scott? So 133 00:05:43,905 --> 00:05:46,845 - I'm gonna use this one all the time and, 134 00:05:46,865 --> 00:05:48,125 and for a couple different reasons. 135 00:05:48,745 --> 00:05:51,085 So as a remote employee 136 00:05:51,505 --> 00:05:55,925 and somebody who theoretically is responsible 137 00:05:55,945 --> 00:05:57,845 for a whole bunch of stuff in an what, 138 00:05:57,845 --> 00:06:01,205 what is an ever-growing a massive platform, I get invited 139 00:06:01,305 --> 00:06:03,325 to a lot of meetings 140 00:06:03,745 --> 00:06:06,725 and many of those meetings can be, 141 00:06:07,155 --> 00:06:09,205 they end up being more passive meetings I guess. 142 00:06:09,275 --> 00:06:12,365 Like I know they're gonna be passive in that I need 143 00:06:12,365 --> 00:06:14,765 to be there to get the information, 144 00:06:15,145 --> 00:06:17,045 but I'm not an active contributor. 145 00:06:17,075 --> 00:06:19,085 Like I'm not driving the conversation 146 00:06:19,265 --> 00:06:22,885 nor am I responsible for ultimate success, right? 147 00:06:22,885 --> 00:06:25,205 Like I'm part of an outcome downstream in there 148 00:06:25,225 --> 00:06:27,205 and I kind of recognize that walking into it 149 00:06:27,825 --> 00:06:29,165 and that being the case. 150 00:06:29,565 --> 00:06:32,805 I have a lot of meetings today where I take them 151 00:06:32,805 --> 00:06:36,205 and I put them on my calendar and I mark myself as a maybe 152 00:06:36,665 --> 00:06:38,805 and I do that very specifically so 153 00:06:38,805 --> 00:06:41,365 that the meeting stays on my calendar for search history. 154 00:06:41,595 --> 00:06:43,085 Like I'm always going into my calendar 155 00:06:43,105 --> 00:06:44,885 and searching like I remember like the title 156 00:06:44,945 --> 00:06:46,445 or the person I like. 157 00:06:46,445 --> 00:06:47,445 I wanna go back and look at it 158 00:06:47,515 --> 00:06:52,085 because I wanna refer to the metadata from that meeting. 159 00:06:52,325 --> 00:06:54,845 Like quite often people include, you know, agendas 160 00:06:54,865 --> 00:06:56,525 and attachments and things like that. 161 00:06:57,105 --> 00:06:58,525 But the other part of it 162 00:06:58,525 --> 00:07:00,605 and the other side of it is when 163 00:07:00,605 --> 00:07:02,085 that meeting's on your calendar, as long 164 00:07:02,085 --> 00:07:04,285 as you don't dump it all the way off by saying no, 165 00:07:04,745 --> 00:07:06,925 you'll actually end up with the chat in teams. 166 00:07:07,625 --> 00:07:09,925 And we record so many of our meetings 167 00:07:10,315 --> 00:07:12,445 that it's hugely beneficial to me. 168 00:07:12,555 --> 00:07:15,605 Like you know, as a remote employee who is time zone, 169 00:07:15,755 --> 00:07:17,685 time zone disconnected from many of my teams, 170 00:07:18,005 --> 00:07:20,405 I can't actually participate live even if I wanted to. 171 00:07:20,515 --> 00:07:24,165 Like there is like a mission critical meeting every week on 172 00:07:24,405 --> 00:07:26,125 Thursdays at 8:00 PM Sorry, 173 00:07:26,125 --> 00:07:28,725 that's like prime time eight 8:00 PM local for me. 174 00:07:28,785 --> 00:07:31,605 Yep. So sorry like that's prime time for me to be 175 00:07:31,605 --> 00:07:33,685 with my family not prioritizing work. 176 00:07:34,145 --> 00:07:36,085 So I don't attend that meeting. 177 00:07:36,365 --> 00:07:38,085 I attended it once just to see how it went 178 00:07:38,085 --> 00:07:39,925 and then I was like, uh, yeah you know, 179 00:07:39,965 --> 00:07:41,485 I really should be here but I'm not gonna be here 180 00:07:41,515 --> 00:07:42,885 because it's me time. 181 00:07:43,305 --> 00:07:45,045 But I am a ravenous consumer 182 00:07:45,045 --> 00:07:46,965 because that happens on Thursdays 183 00:07:47,305 --> 00:07:49,005 of just picking it up Friday morning. 184 00:07:49,035 --> 00:07:50,605 Fridays tend to be slow days for me. 185 00:07:50,635 --> 00:07:52,525 It's a good time to actually catch up on meetings 186 00:07:52,525 --> 00:07:53,605 and figure out what's going on. 187 00:07:53,945 --> 00:07:56,445 So I do that religiously like week over week. 188 00:07:56,445 --> 00:07:59,405 Great Thursday meeting it runs at 8:00 PM it's only supposed 189 00:07:59,405 --> 00:08:01,325 to be a half hour meeting, it often goes over an hour. 190 00:08:01,605 --> 00:08:02,765 like they just keep going. 191 00:08:03,185 --> 00:08:04,645 So I catch up on that recording. 192 00:08:05,085 --> 00:08:08,725 I wouldn't be able to do that if I didn't have myself marked 193 00:08:08,725 --> 00:08:10,205 as tentative on that meeting. 194 00:08:10,425 --> 00:08:13,845 But what this capability lets you do is it lets me decline 195 00:08:13,845 --> 00:08:17,245 the meeting like a clear signal to the organizer 196 00:08:17,345 --> 00:08:19,085 and attendees and the people that are in 197 00:08:19,085 --> 00:08:20,685 that meeting that I ain't gonna be there. 198 00:08:20,795 --> 00:08:23,605 Like this is not the forum where you're gonna find Scott, 199 00:08:24,185 --> 00:08:26,805 but I get all those other additive benefits in 200 00:08:26,805 --> 00:08:29,125 that I can still search for it on my calendar, 201 00:08:29,645 --> 00:08:32,085 I can still refer back to the chat, I can refer 202 00:08:32,085 --> 00:08:35,045 to meeting recordings, all those good kinds of things. 203 00:08:35,235 --> 00:08:40,205 Like in my mind the way this composes is it actually lets me 204 00:08:40,265 --> 00:08:41,725 be a shadow consumer 205 00:08:41,865 --> 00:08:44,965 and follower of those meetings all while setting the tone 206 00:08:44,965 --> 00:08:47,885 that like, yeah, sorry I'm not an active participant if you 207 00:08:47,885 --> 00:08:49,045 need me I I'm around 208 00:08:49,185 --> 00:08:52,485 but you just gotta catch me my time, not your time. Right? 209 00:08:52,625 --> 00:08:54,005 - So do you think this will still 210 00:08:56,205 --> 00:08:58,205 preserve those team chats and stuff? 211 00:08:58,405 --> 00:09:00,885 I guess it's one thing that's like not called out I would 212 00:09:00,885 --> 00:09:03,285 assume because you still have the event, 213 00:09:04,425 --> 00:09:06,325 you could still like open it up 214 00:09:06,325 --> 00:09:08,605 and get to the join link to go find it in teams 215 00:09:09,295 --> 00:09:12,405 after the fact or see the recording for 216 00:09:12,845 --> 00:09:14,685 - Meetings that you still have on your calendar. 217 00:09:14,915 --> 00:09:17,045 Like because this persists across Outlook 218 00:09:17,045 --> 00:09:18,285 and teams like, you know, 219 00:09:18,285 --> 00:09:19,805 you have like the calendar tab in teams, 220 00:09:20,265 --> 00:09:22,685 you just go click on the event and then the chat tabs there 221 00:09:22,785 --> 00:09:24,845 and then once you're in the chat tab you can see all the 222 00:09:24,845 --> 00:09:26,445 other tabs like meeting recaps 223 00:09:26,445 --> 00:09:27,565 and all those other kinds of things. 224 00:09:27,895 --> 00:09:31,965 Which let me tell you like the meeting recap stuff getting 225 00:09:32,665 --> 00:09:36,445 way, way, way better to the point where like I record 226 00:09:36,445 --> 00:09:38,165 and transcribe all my meetings now 227 00:09:38,165 --> 00:09:40,285 because I'm kind of becoming dependent 228 00:09:40,825 --> 00:09:45,005 on the AI summarization of the transcriptions. 229 00:09:45,005 --> 00:09:48,725 Like that stuff works really, really, really well. I think 230 00:09:48,725 --> 00:09:52,525 - That's one area where AI, from my perspective, not 231 00:09:52,525 --> 00:09:55,085 to go too far down it is the AI path again, 232 00:09:55,145 --> 00:09:57,205 but AI is getting really good is that some of 233 00:09:57,205 --> 00:09:58,685 that summarization stuff it, 234 00:09:59,105 --> 00:10:01,325 I'm still not sold on it coming up with net new. 235 00:10:01,505 --> 00:10:04,285 But I agree some of the summarization stuff is getting good 236 00:10:04,285 --> 00:10:06,645 and I need to remember to record more of my meetings. 237 00:10:06,805 --> 00:10:10,445 I am still not like that's a habit I need to develop 238 00:10:10,705 --> 00:10:11,845 of always. 239 00:10:11,935 --> 00:10:14,525 First thing, hey, do you mind if we record this meeting, 240 00:10:14,695 --> 00:10:16,805 click record so I can have all of that stuff. 241 00:10:17,295 --> 00:10:19,165 Aside from that, I'm really curious 242 00:10:19,225 --> 00:10:20,725 to try this declined events too. 243 00:10:21,265 --> 00:10:24,565 I'm sort of in the same boat as you of some of these. 244 00:10:24,645 --> 00:10:28,685 I want to go back and see later or see the chat for, 245 00:10:29,385 --> 00:10:32,765 but I actually have a bunch, so I get a bunch 246 00:10:32,765 --> 00:10:36,245 of meetings related to like MVP stuff 247 00:10:36,475 --> 00:10:40,445 that pop up on my calendar and I'm the same as you. 248 00:10:40,525 --> 00:10:42,125 I always click tentative 'cause I'm like 249 00:10:42,165 --> 00:10:43,205 I don't know what's going on. 250 00:10:43,565 --> 00:10:45,125 I don't know if I'm gonna be there or not. 251 00:10:45,875 --> 00:10:47,925 Some of 'em are all just random time zones 252 00:10:47,945 --> 00:10:49,885 but maybe I want to go catch up on stuff later. 253 00:10:50,545 --> 00:10:53,285 All of that. So I have a gazillion like tentative 254 00:10:53,285 --> 00:10:54,405 meetings on my calendar. 255 00:10:55,305 --> 00:10:58,325 But for me, my problem that I, 256 00:10:58,605 --> 00:11:02,045 I just realized this recently, I use Savvy Cal, 257 00:11:02,155 --> 00:11:05,485 it's very similar to Calendly for people 258 00:11:05,545 --> 00:11:06,845 to schedule meetings with me 259 00:11:07,225 --> 00:11:10,525 and it looks at all of my different calendars including 260 00:11:11,105 --> 00:11:13,725 my work one, a few other ones where I contract 261 00:11:14,225 --> 00:11:15,765 and it gives people my availability. 262 00:11:16,395 --> 00:11:20,045 Tentative meetings still show me as busy 263 00:11:20,265 --> 00:11:22,405 and end up blocking off my time 264 00:11:23,625 --> 00:11:26,765 on these other services on Savvy Caller Calendly. 265 00:11:27,505 --> 00:11:30,405 So I'm similar to you is that I'm hoping 266 00:11:32,005 --> 00:11:33,245 declined in. 267 00:11:33,725 --> 00:11:34,885 'cause now I manually go through 268 00:11:34,885 --> 00:11:37,125 and I'm like flip it to free so that if someone wants 269 00:11:37,125 --> 00:11:38,005 to meet with me at that time, 270 00:11:38,245 --> 00:11:39,325 'cause they're more important. That's 271 00:11:39,325 --> 00:11:40,325 - Another part of it. 272 00:11:40,325 --> 00:11:42,365 Yeah, is like free busy management, right? 273 00:11:42,365 --> 00:11:46,085 - Like I'm hoping Declined shows me as free 274 00:11:46,625 --> 00:11:50,245 and not as busy even though it still shows on my calendar. 275 00:11:50,505 --> 00:11:54,045 So I think that's where I might use declined more is a lot 276 00:11:54,045 --> 00:11:56,325 of these, again these types of meetings, 277 00:11:56,325 --> 00:11:58,925 it's more FYI if you wanna show up, this is 278 00:11:58,925 --> 00:12:00,325 what we're gonna talk about today. 279 00:12:01,065 --> 00:12:04,005 So whether I decline or tentative 280 00:12:04,265 --> 00:12:06,165 or accept, nobody really cares. 281 00:12:06,185 --> 00:12:07,525 99% of these, 282 00:12:07,525 --> 00:12:10,005 they don't even have the auto responses turned on. 283 00:12:10,225 --> 00:12:12,085 So it's not even like people are getting emails 284 00:12:12,095 --> 00:12:13,205 about what you did about it. 285 00:12:13,465 --> 00:12:14,805 So I think that's where I'm looking forward 286 00:12:14,805 --> 00:12:16,965 to it is just decline 'em, decline 'em, decline 'em. 287 00:12:16,965 --> 00:12:20,045 So my calendar shows free but I can still see 'em there 288 00:12:20,045 --> 00:12:21,485 and go attend them if I want to. I 289 00:12:21,485 --> 00:12:23,405 - Guess just a point of clarification, 290 00:12:23,715 --> 00:12:25,205 some folks in the chat are kinda saying like, 291 00:12:25,205 --> 00:12:28,165 hey why can't there maybe another status like declined 292 00:12:28,225 --> 00:12:31,125 but keep informed or declined 293 00:12:31,125 --> 00:12:32,885 and kept on calendar or something like that. 294 00:12:33,315 --> 00:12:34,885 Just, just to be clear with kind 295 00:12:34,885 --> 00:12:36,285 of the way this one manifests, 296 00:12:36,875 --> 00:12:39,125 it's you're declining the meeting 297 00:12:39,665 --> 00:12:41,685 so this organizer is getting a decline. 298 00:12:42,185 --> 00:12:44,845 You're picking whether it stays on your calendar or not. 299 00:12:45,185 --> 00:12:46,805 So it's a meeting by meeting kind of thing. 300 00:12:46,805 --> 00:12:49,405 Like all meetings you decline don't have 301 00:12:49,405 --> 00:12:51,885 to stay on your calendar in this kind of model 302 00:12:52,105 --> 00:12:53,765 as it manifests for itself. 303 00:12:54,355 --> 00:12:55,445 It's kind of disappointing to me 304 00:12:55,445 --> 00:12:58,205 that it requires the outlook on the web 305 00:12:58,425 --> 00:13:01,005 or the new Monarch client I have you played around 306 00:13:01,005 --> 00:13:02,005 with the new Monarch client yet? 307 00:13:02,185 --> 00:13:04,365 - No, I sit in a Mac all day. 308 00:13:04,765 --> 00:13:08,605 I think I do have a VM where I turned it on, 309 00:13:09,625 --> 00:13:11,685 but I honestly can't remember. 310 00:13:11,805 --> 00:13:14,565 I don't spend enough time in Outlook on Windows that I, 311 00:13:15,245 --> 00:13:16,525 I won't lie, I don't pay that close 312 00:13:16,525 --> 00:13:17,645 of attention to Outlook on Windows. 313 00:13:17,925 --> 00:13:20,405 - I live in the Monarch line on Windows day in day out. 314 00:13:20,475 --> 00:13:22,645 It's pretty much trash . I don't like it. 315 00:13:22,835 --> 00:13:25,365 Like I'm, I'm like old man get off my lawn kind 316 00:13:25,365 --> 00:13:26,725 of thing when it comes to it. 317 00:13:26,955 --> 00:13:28,565 It's got some really weird behaviors. 318 00:13:28,745 --> 00:13:30,165 So when I ran into today, I seem 319 00:13:30,165 --> 00:13:32,685 to run into like some weird new education Monarch every day. 320 00:13:32,685 --> 00:13:36,005 Uhhuh . It's very opinionated about being a 321 00:13:37,055 --> 00:13:38,645 quote unquote like cloud product. 322 00:13:38,915 --> 00:13:40,765 Like it knows it's a web app 323 00:13:41,225 --> 00:13:44,565 and it knows it's a glorified web app on the desktop too. 324 00:13:45,045 --> 00:13:46,445 I, I hadn't run into this one yet 325 00:13:46,445 --> 00:13:49,885 because so many of the things I do like we share like links 326 00:13:49,885 --> 00:13:51,085 to artifacts like Word 327 00:13:51,365 --> 00:13:52,845 documents, anything, PDFs, stuff like that. 328 00:13:52,845 --> 00:13:54,805 They all come out of like OneDrive or a SharePoint site. 329 00:13:55,185 --> 00:13:57,325 And I was doing something with somebody yesterday 330 00:13:57,585 --> 00:13:58,685 and they sent me, uh, 331 00:13:58,685 --> 00:14:00,765 for the first time in a long time I got an actual 332 00:14:00,765 --> 00:14:03,045 attachment, like not a cloud attachment 333 00:14:03,185 --> 00:14:04,725 but an attachment attachment, okay. 334 00:14:04,725 --> 00:14:06,045 And it came through in the Monarch client. 335 00:14:06,105 --> 00:14:08,245 And so I said I wanna double click that and open it up. 336 00:14:08,245 --> 00:14:10,565 It was a Word document. Simple, right? 337 00:14:10,595 --> 00:14:12,245 Like, 'cause when you're in Outlook 338 00:14:12,245 --> 00:14:13,445 and you double click on an attachment, 339 00:14:13,505 --> 00:14:15,245 it just opens locally on your desktop. 340 00:14:15,245 --> 00:14:17,525 Like it goes to attempt, download, location, blah blah blah. 341 00:14:17,525 --> 00:14:20,525 Opens up no friction, Uhuh not in Monarch. 342 00:14:20,725 --> 00:14:21,805 'cause Monarch doesn't even know 343 00:14:21,805 --> 00:14:23,045 that it has separate windows, right? 344 00:14:23,105 --> 00:14:24,845 So it pops up the little pop-up window, 345 00:14:25,345 --> 00:14:27,845 the word doc doesn't render and then it says open, 346 00:14:28,545 --> 00:14:31,765 but it doesn't say open locally, it says open in OneDrive. 347 00:14:32,345 --> 00:14:34,445 So then what it does is you click open, 348 00:14:35,025 --> 00:14:36,365 it pops up another window 349 00:14:36,865 --> 00:14:38,405 and now that window is basically a web 350 00:14:38,405 --> 00:14:39,565 browser at that point, right? 351 00:14:39,725 --> 00:14:41,565 'cause it's all just a view into a web browser. 352 00:14:42,025 --> 00:14:44,005 So then you know how if you have, you know, 353 00:14:44,005 --> 00:14:46,125 like Chrome Edge whatever it is not configured 354 00:14:46,125 --> 00:14:48,125 to automatically go to a website, 355 00:14:48,425 --> 00:14:49,765 it pops up the little dialogue 356 00:14:49,765 --> 00:14:50,765 and says, you know, are you sure 357 00:14:50,765 --> 00:14:52,050 you wanna open this on the web? 358 00:14:52,050 --> 00:14:53,925 Yeah blah blah blah. So all I get is 359 00:14:53,925 --> 00:14:55,685 that little dialogue in a blank white window. 360 00:14:55,705 --> 00:14:58,245 And I'm like how is it even opening it in OneDrive? 361 00:14:58,245 --> 00:15:01,165 Like what's it doing? It's taking the attachment 362 00:15:01,785 --> 00:15:05,445 and it's storing it random location in my OneDrive 363 00:15:05,705 --> 00:15:08,765 and then it's opening there in Word on the web 364 00:15:09,025 --> 00:15:10,645 and it's like it did all the things 365 00:15:10,645 --> 00:15:11,885 that I did not want it to do. 366 00:15:12,025 --> 00:15:14,045 All I wanted to do was double click an attachment 367 00:15:14,505 --> 00:15:16,645 and have it open in my desktop client 368 00:15:17,065 --> 00:15:20,005 and it did every single thing it could to ingest 369 00:15:20,005 --> 00:15:21,285 that data into OneDrive, 370 00:15:21,285 --> 00:15:23,405 which I did not want, nor did I need. 371 00:15:23,885 --> 00:15:25,525 'cause now I gotta go find it and clean it up later. 372 00:15:25,865 --> 00:15:29,125 And also everything it can do not to open 373 00:15:29,125 --> 00:15:31,445 that document in a local browser, 374 00:15:31,855 --> 00:15:34,005 which is like the very first setting 375 00:15:34,355 --> 00:15:36,205 that I set in all my office clients. 376 00:15:36,445 --> 00:15:38,405 is open everything on the desktop. 377 00:15:38,405 --> 00:15:40,485 Like I'm not a fan of the web experiences. 378 00:15:40,795 --> 00:15:43,765 Like there's 99% of the time I'm using functionality 379 00:15:43,795 --> 00:15:46,045 that doesn't comport with the web experience. 380 00:15:46,425 --> 00:15:49,085 So I'm like adamant that you should open on the desktop. 381 00:15:49,085 --> 00:15:53,725 Like just such a broken, frustrating, like 382 00:15:54,445 --> 00:15:57,765 horrible thing And ooh boy is it slow? 383 00:15:58,075 --> 00:16:01,845 Like you can tell it is a glorified PWA 384 00:16:01,845 --> 00:16:03,165 wrapped in a desktop app. 385 00:16:03,625 --> 00:16:05,885 You know, like somebody cancels a meeting and you 386 00:16:05,905 --> 00:16:07,685 and you know you get the remove button 387 00:16:07,755 --> 00:16:10,685 that pops up just in the Outlook thing when you click remove 388 00:16:11,225 --> 00:16:13,325 you can sit there and you can pull out your watch 389 00:16:13,465 --> 00:16:15,925 and you can count the seconds until 390 00:16:15,925 --> 00:16:20,245 that item like disappears out of the list inside of Monarch. 391 00:16:20,625 --> 00:16:22,925 And then my third complaint from Monarch for the day is, 392 00:16:23,185 --> 00:16:25,805 oh my gosh the UI is really, really, really bad. 393 00:16:26,145 --> 00:16:28,205 So by default when you open new items, 394 00:16:28,545 --> 00:16:30,125 say you're like replying to an email. 395 00:16:30,345 --> 00:16:31,525 So you know you send me an email 396 00:16:31,525 --> 00:16:34,565 and I just click the reply button in line even though it 397 00:16:34,565 --> 00:16:36,245 looks like I'm typing in the same window, 398 00:16:36,835 --> 00:16:39,085 it's actually created, I am typing the same window 399 00:16:39,105 --> 00:16:41,765 but it actually creates a new little sub tab down 400 00:16:41,765 --> 00:16:42,805 on the bottom of the window. 401 00:16:43,305 --> 00:16:45,645 So now when I like sometimes I go into my email client, 402 00:16:45,725 --> 00:16:47,445 I just kind of like glance like bottom up 403 00:16:47,445 --> 00:16:50,325 as I'm reading my email and I'll have a whole list of tabs, 404 00:16:50,435 --> 00:16:52,485 tabs along the bottom of the reading pan 405 00:16:52,865 --> 00:16:54,605 and it's just all these like previous emails 406 00:16:54,605 --> 00:16:56,965 that I've looked at other stuff like there are no rhyme 407 00:16:56,965 --> 00:16:59,245 or reason to the way this thing works 408 00:16:59,425 --> 00:17:00,605 or how it comes together. 409 00:17:01,325 --> 00:17:03,525 I would rather have the version of Outlook 410 00:17:03,545 --> 00:17:05,685 or the version, uh, from iOS 411 00:17:05,685 --> 00:17:08,485 or Android like take the Nont tablet, 412 00:17:08,585 --> 00:17:10,125 tablet version from Android 413 00:17:10,425 --> 00:17:12,525 and it would be a thousand percent better than 414 00:17:12,525 --> 00:17:13,725 what Monarch is today. 415 00:17:14,085 --> 00:17:15,325 . It's absolutely crazy. 416 00:17:15,745 --> 00:17:17,565 So I see people on Reddit always going through 417 00:17:17,625 --> 00:17:19,445 and like worrying that it's gonna get turned on 418 00:17:19,445 --> 00:17:22,725 and all those kinds of things and I can't blame them at all. 419 00:17:23,305 --> 00:17:26,565 It is a suboptimal experience for email. 420 00:17:27,445 --> 00:17:28,645 'cause email should be quick, right? 421 00:17:28,645 --> 00:17:30,685 Like triage in out and go 422 00:17:30,785 --> 00:17:31,785 - And it does. 423 00:17:31,785 --> 00:17:32,565 I mean it's a PWA 424 00:17:32,685 --> 00:17:34,005 'cause I just looked, I thought I had seen that. 425 00:17:34,315 --> 00:17:37,245 Like you can see the whole tap experience if you go look at 426 00:17:37,435 --> 00:17:40,645 Outlook on the web, if you just go mail.office 360 five.com 427 00:17:40,645 --> 00:17:42,725 and start opening emails and responding to 'em, 428 00:17:43,105 --> 00:17:45,005 you get the exact same thing where you get all those 429 00:17:45,855 --> 00:17:48,765 silly tabs across the bottom of your, 430 00:17:49,435 --> 00:17:50,765 it's essentially across the bottom 431 00:17:50,765 --> 00:17:52,165 of the reading pain. It's bad 432 00:17:52,605 --> 00:17:55,485 - like I get you have to drive new change. 433 00:17:55,515 --> 00:17:57,685 Yeah and new behavior and there's a desire to do that 434 00:17:57,705 --> 00:18:00,605 but like it is such a big bang approach that like who 435 00:18:01,185 --> 00:18:02,325 it, it's gonna be a rough one. 436 00:18:02,425 --> 00:18:04,085 So for those organizations that are out there 437 00:18:04,085 --> 00:18:06,085 where you're like, we don't like to train our users 438 00:18:06,425 --> 00:18:08,045 and we're very adamant we're against that. 439 00:18:08,115 --> 00:18:10,445 Like when this is shoved down your throats 440 00:18:10,505 --> 00:18:13,405 and it will be shoved down your throats, it's kinda like one 441 00:18:13,405 --> 00:18:15,045 of those like prepare yourselves 442 00:18:15,225 --> 00:18:18,125 for like the IT help desk Apocalypse 443 00:18:18,125 --> 00:18:19,565 because it's not gonna be fun. 444 00:18:23,465 --> 00:18:25,085 - Do you feel overwhelmed by trying 445 00:18:25,085 --> 00:18:27,445 to manage your Office 365 environment? 446 00:18:27,625 --> 00:18:29,365 Are you facing unexpected issues 447 00:18:29,365 --> 00:18:31,245 that disrupt your company's productivity? 448 00:18:31,275 --> 00:18:34,045 Intelligent is here to help much like you take your car 449 00:18:34,045 --> 00:18:36,725 to the mechanic that has specialized knowledge on how 450 00:18:36,725 --> 00:18:39,445 to best keep your car running Intelligent helps you 451 00:18:39,445 --> 00:18:41,005 with your Microsoft Cloud environment 452 00:18:41,005 --> 00:18:42,525 because that's their expertise. 453 00:18:42,755 --> 00:18:44,125 Intelligent keeps up 454 00:18:44,125 --> 00:18:46,325 with the latest updates on the Microsoft Cloud 455 00:18:46,345 --> 00:18:47,805 to help keep your business running 456 00:18:48,125 --> 00:18:49,325 smoothly and ahead of the curve. 457 00:18:49,355 --> 00:18:51,245 Whether you are a small organization 458 00:18:51,245 --> 00:18:53,725 with just a few users up to an organization 459 00:18:53,725 --> 00:18:57,005 of several thousand employees they want to partner with you 460 00:18:57,025 --> 00:19:00,285 to implement and administer your Microsoft Cloud technology, 461 00:19:00,895 --> 00:19:04,445 visit them at intelligent.com/podcast. 462 00:19:04,905 --> 00:19:09,325 That's I-N-T-E-L-L-I-G-I-N 463 00:19:09,445 --> 00:19:13,045 k.com/podcast for more information 464 00:19:13,065 --> 00:19:14,685 or to schedule a 30 minute call 465 00:19:14,685 --> 00:19:16,005 to get started with them today. 466 00:19:16,805 --> 00:19:19,245 Remember intelligent focuses on the Microsoft cloud 467 00:19:19,345 --> 00:19:21,485 so you can focus on your business. 468 00:19:24,045 --> 00:19:25,845 I get why Microsoft is doing this 469 00:19:26,025 --> 00:19:27,525 and a lot of other companies for that matter. 470 00:19:27,605 --> 00:19:29,085 I guess from a development perspective 471 00:19:29,085 --> 00:19:32,685 where everything is now just a glorified PWA 472 00:19:33,425 --> 00:19:37,395 but I get so annoyed with it 473 00:19:38,015 --> 00:19:40,035 as well from your perspective, whether it's that 474 00:19:40,535 --> 00:19:43,715 or whether it's silly things like I was in the Yammer slash 475 00:19:43,955 --> 00:19:46,875 Veeva engage today for whatever reason. 476 00:19:47,415 --> 00:19:48,475 We don't need to go into the reason 477 00:19:48,475 --> 00:19:49,955 of why I'd even go in there . 478 00:19:50,495 --> 00:19:52,235 But like I get this popup 479 00:19:52,335 --> 00:19:55,635 of oh we've released a new desktop client for Veeva Engage. 480 00:19:55,655 --> 00:19:58,315 And I'm like oh sweet, let's just add it so I don't have 481 00:19:58,315 --> 00:19:59,595 to keep my browser up all the time. 482 00:19:59,595 --> 00:20:01,835 Mm-hmm it just creates a pwa 483 00:20:03,255 --> 00:20:04,595 That's not the point. 484 00:20:04,695 --> 00:20:06,795 And I think some of my annoyance is 485 00:20:06,795 --> 00:20:10,835 that everybody now thinks PWAs are actually desktop 486 00:20:10,835 --> 00:20:13,635 applications and I'm like no, not really 487 00:20:13,635 --> 00:20:18,235 because I'll even do silly things like I'm having an issue 488 00:20:18,235 --> 00:20:20,155 with Outlook or Outlook needs an update 489 00:20:20,155 --> 00:20:21,595 and I'm like okay go restart Outlook. 490 00:20:21,615 --> 00:20:25,075 And I forget and I'm like ah shoot, there goes my five PWAs 491 00:20:25,075 --> 00:20:29,795 that I was thinking or forgetting they weren't desktop apps 492 00:20:29,855 --> 00:20:33,835 or I go to open a PWA and like 10 browser windows pop open 493 00:20:33,835 --> 00:20:35,395 because that's what I had open last time. 494 00:20:35,435 --> 00:20:40,035 I had my browser open in this dependency on all my PWAs now 495 00:20:40,035 --> 00:20:41,035 to have the browser open 496 00:20:41,175 --> 00:20:45,315 and I can't just have an app open, I have 497 00:20:45,375 --> 00:20:46,675 to have my browser open 498 00:20:46,695 --> 00:20:49,005 and browser updates affect my PWAs and all that. 499 00:20:49,005 --> 00:20:52,485 It's like just gimme a silly desktop app that's independent 500 00:20:52,485 --> 00:20:54,765 of my browser because that's the whole point 501 00:20:54,785 --> 00:20:55,885 of a desktop app. 502 00:20:56,475 --> 00:20:59,525 Otherwise I might as well just go buy a Chromebook, right? 503 00:20:59,665 --> 00:21:01,125 And just run a browser for everything. 504 00:21:02,555 --> 00:21:03,725 - Yeah and there seems 505 00:21:03,725 --> 00:21:07,005 to be like while we're on this like little ranty thing, 506 00:21:07,145 --> 00:21:10,845 so have you, you know what A PWA is, right? 507 00:21:10,965 --> 00:21:12,925 A progressive web app like I think most 508 00:21:12,925 --> 00:21:17,085 of us do sometimes I feel like there's just this cognitive 509 00:21:17,175 --> 00:21:20,125 dissonance when it comes from like the way these things are 510 00:21:20,365 --> 00:21:21,685 positioned and pushed out to customers. 511 00:21:22,145 --> 00:21:23,645 So I, I don't know if you saw this one, 512 00:21:24,035 --> 00:21:25,405 I'll put it in the chat here on 513 00:21:25,405 --> 00:21:26,765 Discord and over in the show notes 514 00:21:26,945 --> 00:21:29,325 - You mentioned this one, I haven't read it. 515 00:21:29,325 --> 00:21:30,365 - Yeah, we didn't talk about it 516 00:21:30,365 --> 00:21:33,605 but no so this is the Windows Forms app. 517 00:21:34,025 --> 00:21:36,125 So Microsoft Forms the new Yes, 518 00:21:36,125 --> 00:21:38,005 - The Microsoft the New Forms app, 519 00:21:38,155 --> 00:21:40,645 it's here based on the title of the article. Yes. 520 00:21:40,905 --> 00:21:43,325 - So published in the Microsoft store 521 00:21:44,145 --> 00:21:47,525 the most glor like this is like the a the abomination 522 00:21:47,525 --> 00:21:51,925 of abominations of hey we allow PWAs into 523 00:21:52,545 --> 00:21:55,725 the official stores when they're not native apps. 524 00:21:55,795 --> 00:21:57,365 Like it really makes me concerned sometimes 525 00:21:57,385 --> 00:22:00,445 for like the future of native apps on Windows when like 526 00:22:00,445 --> 00:22:02,085 everything's a web app like this 527 00:22:02,585 --> 00:22:04,445 and Microsoft is seems to be going towards, 528 00:22:04,465 --> 00:22:06,885 its kinda like streaming Windows scenarios even. 529 00:22:07,225 --> 00:22:08,885 So this thing is just a PWA, 530 00:22:09,265 --> 00:22:11,125 it is published in the Microsoft store. 531 00:22:11,555 --> 00:22:13,685 It's got notes plastered all over it. 532 00:22:13,685 --> 00:22:15,805 Like caveats like hey the forums app 533 00:22:15,805 --> 00:22:17,045 requires an internet connection. 534 00:22:17,395 --> 00:22:20,165 Well sure 'cause all you did was wrap a web browser 535 00:22:20,505 --> 00:22:23,805 and like literally you, you popped it up 536 00:22:23,865 --> 00:22:26,205 and put it in there and you can tell how much 537 00:22:26,205 --> 00:22:28,765 of a like just a, a stretch this is 538 00:22:28,915 --> 00:22:33,165 because the post to launch the forms Windows app, 539 00:22:33,595 --> 00:22:35,445 it's got two steps for getting the app 540 00:22:35,795 --> 00:22:38,125 that both show you ending up in the same place. 541 00:22:38,345 --> 00:22:40,285 One is going to the Microsoft store 542 00:22:40,665 --> 00:22:42,965 and the other is just clicking the plus button in the 543 00:22:42,965 --> 00:22:46,085 browser to create a PWA . 544 00:22:46,465 --> 00:22:48,565 It is, it's absolutely crazy. 545 00:22:48,865 --> 00:22:50,325 And then I wonder like a, 546 00:22:50,325 --> 00:22:52,165 again like the cognitive dissonance thing. 547 00:22:52,165 --> 00:22:53,325 So like I look at this post 548 00:22:53,945 --> 00:22:57,405 and the very first comment down at the bottom. 549 00:22:57,545 --> 00:22:59,965 Yep. So the very first comment says great 550 00:23:00,025 --> 00:23:03,285 to see forms being released as a standalone Windows app 551 00:23:03,465 --> 00:23:04,565 and a browser app. 552 00:23:05,155 --> 00:23:08,445 Like did nobody know that you could do this the whole time? 553 00:23:09,065 --> 00:23:10,725 I'm so confused. . 554 00:23:11,025 --> 00:23:12,165 - It does like that comment. 555 00:23:12,365 --> 00:23:14,125 I saw that comment, that's what I was reading that I'm like 556 00:23:14,125 --> 00:23:18,405 that just made me laugh because it's not, it's just a PWA 557 00:23:18,945 --> 00:23:21,245 and you're getting me all on this soapbox. 558 00:23:21,305 --> 00:23:22,605 So, and here's the other issue I have 559 00:23:22,605 --> 00:23:24,125 with PWAs primarily, 560 00:23:24,745 --> 00:23:26,325 and I know, I don't know if this, 561 00:23:26,725 --> 00:23:28,205 I would assume this works differently in 562 00:23:28,205 --> 00:23:29,485 the new outlook for Windows. 563 00:23:30,035 --> 00:23:33,165 Part of my biggest issue with PWAs is 564 00:23:34,145 --> 00:23:36,805 the whole issue we had with teams for the longest time, 565 00:23:37,025 --> 00:23:40,005 and this is one of the reasons I still use the desktop app, 566 00:23:40,385 --> 00:23:41,965 is I am literally signed into 567 00:23:42,775 --> 00:23:45,600 eight different office 365 accounts. 568 00:23:45,875 --> 00:23:49,125 Have you ever tried to use PWAs for Outlook when you have 569 00:23:49,125 --> 00:23:50,805 to be signed into eight of them simultaneously? 570 00:23:51,365 --> 00:23:53,045 it just, it breaks 571 00:23:53,265 --> 00:23:56,605 and I've tried like I've tested this, this is not something 572 00:23:56,605 --> 00:23:59,765 that I haven't tried to do where I go create profiles 573 00:24:00,545 --> 00:24:03,525 and in my profiles I sign into eight different versions 574 00:24:03,765 --> 00:24:07,085 of Outlook on the web and I go try to create 575 00:24:08,555 --> 00:24:10,485 PWAs in all of these profiles. 576 00:24:10,945 --> 00:24:14,525 And I've ended up in this weird bizarre scenario 577 00:24:14,575 --> 00:24:16,205 where sometimes I get like two 578 00:24:16,205 --> 00:24:17,885 or three of them as their own PWA 579 00:24:18,345 --> 00:24:20,565 but then other times like three 580 00:24:20,565 --> 00:24:23,805 or four of the profiles get combined into the same PWA 581 00:24:24,065 --> 00:24:26,925 and I have like a toggle in my file menu to switch 582 00:24:26,925 --> 00:24:29,725 between my profiles and the same PWA for outlook 583 00:24:30,065 --> 00:24:33,325 and it just is weird. It doesn't work. 584 00:24:33,555 --> 00:24:35,325 - Good luck figuring out like the rhymer reason here. 585 00:24:35,325 --> 00:24:36,405 Like the best thing to try 586 00:24:36,405 --> 00:24:38,525 and do is like if you have a multi account scenario 587 00:24:38,625 --> 00:24:42,365 and you wanna create a PWA for app one, 588 00:24:42,435 --> 00:24:44,885 like let's call it like in well instance A 589 00:24:44,905 --> 00:24:46,565 and an instance B kind of thing. 590 00:24:46,945 --> 00:24:51,125 So you go and create PWA from browser profile A 591 00:24:51,305 --> 00:24:53,525 and then you go into A profile browser, profile B 592 00:24:53,525 --> 00:24:56,925 and you go to create the PWA there, the PWA always comes in 593 00:24:56,925 --> 00:24:59,645 with the same name and quite often clashes 594 00:24:59,645 --> 00:25:01,805 and just overwrites the other one that was already there. 595 00:25:02,105 --> 00:25:04,965 So then you lose your entire profile and cash history 596 00:25:04,965 --> 00:25:06,245 and everything you had from when 597 00:25:06,245 --> 00:25:07,285 you were saved in the first time. 598 00:25:07,305 --> 00:25:10,605 Anyway, like I've got this weird flow like even today like I 599 00:25:10,605 --> 00:25:13,085 know like uh, it's a little easier on a Mac I think 600 00:25:13,085 --> 00:25:14,765 because when you create a PWA it ends up 601 00:25:14,765 --> 00:25:17,325 as like a.app file in like your local user folder. 602 00:25:17,425 --> 00:25:19,925 Yep. In like your local home directory applications. 603 00:25:20,265 --> 00:25:22,165 So I go in there, I grab it 604 00:25:22,225 --> 00:25:24,725 and I rename it like to you know, one 605 00:25:24,725 --> 00:25:25,725 or I put the username 606 00:25:25,825 --> 00:25:29,685 so it becomes like rather than like my PWAI put like you 607 00:25:29,685 --> 00:25:32,085 know, my PWA dot Scott app 608 00:25:32,085 --> 00:25:33,565 or whatever, like I want the app bundle 609 00:25:33,665 --> 00:25:35,125 to be when it comes together. 610 00:25:35,305 --> 00:25:38,765 So when I go create the next one it doesn't overwrite it. 611 00:25:38,925 --> 00:25:40,605 'cause quite often these things don't have 612 00:25:41,605 --> 00:25:42,805 MultiPro profile kind 613 00:25:42,805 --> 00:25:44,805 of support like you know I mentioned like done 614 00:25:44,805 --> 00:25:47,245 with the Twitter things, um, like doing threads 615 00:25:47,665 --> 00:25:49,125 and threads on the desktop. 616 00:25:49,125 --> 00:25:50,965 There is no desktop app on any platform. 617 00:25:50,965 --> 00:25:54,125 So it's all PWA but I need both my Threads account 618 00:25:54,305 --> 00:25:56,045 and the podcast threads account. 619 00:25:56,305 --> 00:25:59,845 And so that means I have two different PWAs both do the same 620 00:25:59,845 --> 00:26:01,285 thing, same exact website. 621 00:26:01,285 --> 00:26:03,365 But yeah I had to go through this whole manual flow 622 00:26:03,365 --> 00:26:05,445 and machination to create them. 623 00:26:05,875 --> 00:26:09,525 Such a weird, frustrating, crazy thing. 624 00:26:09,525 --> 00:26:12,565 Like it makes like it's scary when there's something out 625 00:26:12,565 --> 00:26:13,645 there that's so bad 626 00:26:13,875 --> 00:26:16,925 that it makes you appreciate like poorly written mobile apps 627 00:26:17,205 --> 00:26:20,405 over just forced down your throat web apps 628 00:26:20,405 --> 00:26:21,725 that are not desktop apps. 629 00:26:22,005 --> 00:26:23,805 - I agree. So bizarre. 630 00:26:24,275 --> 00:26:27,445 Okay, so now that we got to 631 00:26:28,225 --> 00:26:31,005 our pain points and headaches 632 00:26:31,305 --> 00:26:35,205 and sheer frustration with PWAs 633 00:26:36,355 --> 00:26:38,725 from, you can now see declined events on an 634 00:26:38,725 --> 00:26:40,045 outlet calendar, . 635 00:26:41,705 --> 00:26:44,565 - Ah yeah. Yeah. So someone took a half minutes, whatever 636 00:26:45,285 --> 00:26:46,285 - , is there anything else 637 00:26:46,305 --> 00:26:47,405 you wanna talk about today? 638 00:26:47,665 --> 00:26:49,925 We just spent like 30 minutes on declined events 639 00:26:49,925 --> 00:26:52,005 and PWAs not quite 30 minutes. 640 00:26:52,225 --> 00:26:53,685 - You know, sometimes I feel like I'm crazy, 641 00:26:53,915 --> 00:26:57,005 like am I really like old man yells at cloud and, 642 00:26:57,025 --> 00:26:58,925 and I'm, I'm just nuts and out there. 643 00:26:59,585 --> 00:27:01,605 Am I the only one that feels this way? 644 00:27:01,955 --> 00:27:03,485 Like is it a bunch 645 00:27:03,505 --> 00:27:06,005 of other people like who don't feel this way? 646 00:27:06,005 --> 00:27:07,405 Like I know I'm not normal 647 00:27:07,705 --> 00:27:10,245 but I like am I that far off the beaten path from normal? 648 00:27:10,245 --> 00:27:12,325 Like I seem to be questioning so so much 649 00:27:12,325 --> 00:27:14,685 of my life these days around these things. 650 00:27:14,905 --> 00:27:17,725 But um, yeah, uh, we can probably fit a couple more in. 651 00:27:17,865 --> 00:27:22,405 Do you want to talk about do, do, do, 652 00:27:23,105 --> 00:27:24,645 uh, let's see, why don't we do 653 00:27:24,645 --> 00:27:25,725 the break glass account thing? 654 00:27:25,915 --> 00:27:28,005 Okay, from Mr. Redmond real quick. 655 00:27:28,075 --> 00:27:30,845 - Alright, so this was a new, 656 00:27:31,755 --> 00:27:36,525 this is a PowerShell script quick, uh, not quick fix, 657 00:27:36,585 --> 00:27:39,285 but a PowerShell script that Mr. 658 00:27:39,635 --> 00:27:41,485 Tony Redmond wrote about 659 00:27:41,545 --> 00:27:44,045 and it ties into conditional access policies 660 00:27:44,045 --> 00:27:45,165 and break glass accounts. 661 00:27:45,225 --> 00:27:47,245 And we've talked about these before. 662 00:27:47,805 --> 00:27:50,525 I am in several different Microsoft 365 groups. 663 00:27:51,305 --> 00:27:54,645 The number of times break glass accounts come up 664 00:27:54,825 --> 00:27:57,605 or people have this comment 665 00:27:57,905 --> 00:28:00,125 of I have a Microsoft 365 environment 666 00:28:00,125 --> 00:28:01,285 that I'm locked out of. 667 00:28:01,445 --> 00:28:02,645 I need help getting back in 668 00:28:02,645 --> 00:28:06,045 because I wrote my conditional access policies 669 00:28:06,045 --> 00:28:07,125 wrong or something like that. 670 00:28:07,505 --> 00:28:10,605 And I have to talk about Bright glass accounts 671 00:28:10,745 --> 00:28:12,045 and you need to create these 672 00:28:12,695 --> 00:28:15,845 break glass accounts if you're not familiar with 'em. 673 00:28:16,075 --> 00:28:20,285 Emergency access accounts, like stuff went bad in a hurry 674 00:28:20,585 --> 00:28:22,005 and you need to get into your tenant. 675 00:28:22,145 --> 00:28:23,685 And there's a couple scenarios 676 00:28:23,685 --> 00:28:26,285 where these can come into play is you wrote a bad 677 00:28:26,285 --> 00:28:27,525 conditional access policy. 678 00:28:27,905 --> 00:28:30,405 You essentially locked everybody out of your tenant due 679 00:28:30,405 --> 00:28:31,645 to your conditional access policy. 680 00:28:32,395 --> 00:28:34,445 I've also seen these used before. 681 00:28:34,695 --> 00:28:35,845 There was one instance, 682 00:28:35,875 --> 00:28:40,805 fortunately this is not a common instance where MFA broke in 683 00:28:41,375 --> 00:28:43,925 Azure AD now known as Entra id 684 00:28:44,505 --> 00:28:46,405 and if you did not have an account 685 00:28:46,405 --> 00:28:48,085 that didn't have conditional access on 686 00:28:48,085 --> 00:28:49,165 it, you couldn't get into your tenant. 687 00:28:49,825 --> 00:28:51,325 Uh, so you essentially got locked 688 00:28:51,385 --> 00:28:54,085 or not conditional access, multifactor authentication. 689 00:28:54,625 --> 00:28:56,565 You were essentially locked out of your environment 690 00:28:56,565 --> 00:28:57,965 unless you could somehow turn off 691 00:28:57,965 --> 00:28:59,165 multifactor authentication. 692 00:28:59,915 --> 00:29:03,605 What Mr Redmond's script does is 693 00:29:04,185 --> 00:29:08,325 it is a script that'll automatically go through all 694 00:29:08,325 --> 00:29:09,885 of your conditional access policies, 695 00:29:10,435 --> 00:29:13,245 find all the policies in the tenant, look 696 00:29:13,505 --> 00:29:17,925 for the necessary exclusion, which in this case would be 697 00:29:18,035 --> 00:29:21,245 that break glass account, this emergency account. 698 00:29:22,145 --> 00:29:24,725 And if there's not an exclusion there 699 00:29:25,025 --> 00:29:28,245 and if the policy is active it goes ahead 700 00:29:28,245 --> 00:29:31,325 and adds this break glass account in 701 00:29:31,905 --> 00:29:34,405 as an exclusion to your policy. 702 00:29:34,995 --> 00:29:37,725 Just a super simple handy tool to do this. 703 00:29:38,755 --> 00:29:42,805 Some people may be asking like, why do I need a script 704 00:29:42,805 --> 00:29:46,565 to do this because I only have like five policies. 705 00:29:47,065 --> 00:29:49,325 Yes, I get that. I think I saw this somewhere. 706 00:29:49,325 --> 00:29:50,805 Someone was asking for the limit 707 00:29:50,865 --> 00:29:53,005 of conditional access policies to be raised. 708 00:29:53,645 --> 00:29:56,045 I feel like there's a limit of 190 conditional 709 00:29:56,045 --> 00:29:57,085 access policies. 710 00:29:57,505 --> 00:30:00,485 If you have 190 conditional access policies 711 00:30:00,485 --> 00:30:02,525 and you wanna make sure your bright glass account is applied 712 00:30:02,525 --> 00:30:05,285 to all of them, this script would come in very handy. 713 00:30:05,355 --> 00:30:07,685 That would be a very painful manual process. 714 00:30:08,305 --> 00:30:09,725 And even just making sure you hit 'em all 715 00:30:09,725 --> 00:30:12,525 - Generally like even if you have five things, once you get 716 00:30:12,525 --> 00:30:15,605 to like more than two of anything, automation is key 717 00:30:15,705 --> 00:30:16,845 for consistency. 718 00:30:17,355 --> 00:30:21,085 Like, you know, you just don't want to go back and forth. 719 00:30:21,355 --> 00:30:24,805 Yeah. other folks in the chat 190 like isn't 720 00:30:24,805 --> 00:30:26,365 that a lot like eh, it depends on your 721 00:30:26,365 --> 00:30:27,445 organization and who you are. 722 00:30:27,845 --> 00:30:30,245 I am amazed at the number of customers who come to me 723 00:30:30,245 --> 00:30:32,565 and they go, Hey, I see this thing in your documentation 724 00:30:32,565 --> 00:30:34,085 that says blah blah blah is a hard limit. 725 00:30:34,145 --> 00:30:37,725 Can we lift it? Like what's your definition of hard limit? 726 00:30:37,725 --> 00:30:40,205 Because mine is like please don't come 727 00:30:40,205 --> 00:30:43,805 and ask me to do it , I respond to a whole bunch 728 00:30:43,805 --> 00:30:45,725 of incidents every week from customers 729 00:30:45,725 --> 00:30:47,405 where they're just looking to do something 730 00:30:47,405 --> 00:30:49,685 and we're like, yeah, I can understand the pain there 731 00:30:49,785 --> 00:30:51,445 but hard limit means hard limit. 732 00:30:51,575 --> 00:30:54,125 Sorry, like, like what are you gonna do ? 733 00:30:54,685 --> 00:30:57,565 - I just looked 'cause I couldn't remember 734 00:30:57,905 --> 00:31:00,045 and again, I've never come close to this. 735 00:31:00,125 --> 00:31:01,565 I didn't even know there was a limit for this. 736 00:31:01,755 --> 00:31:06,365 Conditional access has a limit of 195 policies per tenant. 737 00:31:06,695 --> 00:31:08,365 There is also a limit on the number 738 00:31:08,365 --> 00:31:09,925 of conditional access policies 739 00:31:09,925 --> 00:31:12,165 that will be evaluated per user. 740 00:31:12,745 --> 00:31:14,965 And I think I'm trying to pull up the article here, 741 00:31:15,045 --> 00:31:17,805 I think it's actually the same number as 195, 742 00:31:18,095 --> 00:31:19,365 which would make sense 743 00:31:19,365 --> 00:31:23,165 because sometimes those policies would get evaluated for 744 00:31:23,675 --> 00:31:24,805 everybody Limit. 745 00:31:25,245 --> 00:31:27,245 I don't even see it in here, but yeah, who knew 746 00:31:27,355 --> 00:31:28,355 - It's in there? 747 00:31:28,355 --> 00:31:31,085 Uh, yeah, 195 per tenant . 748 00:31:31,355 --> 00:31:33,845 - Yeah, I didn't know that existed. Never come close. 749 00:31:34,025 --> 00:31:37,645 But this script from Tony Redmond very handy. 750 00:31:38,345 --> 00:31:39,685 Oh now I lost it, didn't I? 751 00:31:40,275 --> 00:31:43,685 This is what happens when I browse in my tabs. . 752 00:31:44,115 --> 00:31:45,485 Just a nice script to keep handy. 753 00:31:45,555 --> 00:31:48,805 Like you said, if you have a couple conditional access 754 00:31:49,205 --> 00:31:51,445 policies, I mean in my tenant I've like 10 of 'em 755 00:31:51,505 --> 00:31:54,365 and I honestly couldn't tell you if I have a break 756 00:31:54,365 --> 00:31:55,525 glass account on 'em or not. 757 00:31:56,025 --> 00:31:57,645 But just being able to have this handy, 758 00:31:57,835 --> 00:32:00,645 even if you have multiple administrators, make this a part 759 00:32:00,645 --> 00:32:03,165 of your, I mean you could almost do this I would think 760 00:32:03,165 --> 00:32:06,285 as a regular process, like run this script on a monthly 761 00:32:06,295 --> 00:32:09,645 basis or on a weekly basis just to make sure too 762 00:32:09,645 --> 00:32:10,925 that nobody has, 763 00:32:11,695 --> 00:32:13,645 especially if you have multiple administrators, 764 00:32:13,885 --> 00:32:15,845 nobody's pulled out that exclusion 765 00:32:15,985 --> 00:32:18,525 or changed your exclusions or anything like that. 766 00:32:19,155 --> 00:32:22,565 Just using this as one of those maintenance tasks 767 00:32:22,745 --> 00:32:27,605 of making sure that your break glass user exists 768 00:32:28,345 --> 00:32:30,805 as an excluded user in all your conditional access 769 00:32:31,125 --> 00:32:32,125 - Policies. 770 00:32:32,125 --> 00:32:32,925 Great minds think alike. Tony does call 771 00:32:32,925 --> 00:32:36,005 that out in his article that you should absolutely think 772 00:32:36,005 --> 00:32:38,645 about running something like this as an automated thing. 773 00:32:39,065 --> 00:32:40,525 And please, please, please, 774 00:32:40,635 --> 00:32:42,325 like if you're gonna run automated things 775 00:32:42,325 --> 00:32:44,245 that operate against SaaS 776 00:32:44,425 --> 00:32:47,285 or like web-based constructs like Azure ad, 777 00:32:47,355 --> 00:32:48,605 like it lives in the cloud. 778 00:32:48,665 --> 00:32:49,925 So whatever you're running against it, 779 00:32:49,945 --> 00:32:51,645 you should probably make sure that lives in the cloud too. 780 00:32:51,675 --> 00:32:53,925 Like don't use your local like task scheduler 781 00:32:53,925 --> 00:32:56,045 or like Aron job locally to do this thing. 782 00:32:56,515 --> 00:32:58,485 Push it up to Azure automation 783 00:32:58,585 --> 00:33:01,405 or some kind of service like that to go ahead 784 00:33:01,405 --> 00:33:03,725 and have it execute and do its thing. 785 00:33:04,025 --> 00:33:06,445 So that's all solid advice as well. Yeah, 786 00:33:06,565 --> 00:33:07,565 - I didn't even see that in there. 787 00:33:08,195 --> 00:33:10,045 Glad Tony and I think alike read 788 00:33:10,045 --> 00:33:11,365 - Between the lines, you know? 789 00:33:11,425 --> 00:33:13,685 Uh, yeah. Uh, great minds think alike. 790 00:33:13,685 --> 00:33:15,285 You're on the right path there. Good 791 00:33:15,285 --> 00:33:16,285 - To hear. 792 00:33:16,285 --> 00:33:17,005 Good to hear. I'm on the same page with Tony. 793 00:33:17,905 --> 00:33:19,405 Oh, any other ones? Scott? 794 00:33:19,785 --> 00:33:20,925 - Any other ones? 795 00:33:21,165 --> 00:33:23,245 I mean there's always, there's always more stuff out there. 796 00:33:23,605 --> 00:33:24,845 - I feel like some of the other ones 797 00:33:24,845 --> 00:33:26,085 could take some more time. 798 00:33:26,405 --> 00:33:27,805 I know I was looking through our list 799 00:33:27,805 --> 00:33:30,485 and I'm like are there any of these that are quick 800 00:33:31,285 --> 00:33:32,005 - ? No, 801 00:33:32,155 --> 00:33:33,445 - There's not really quick in there 802 00:33:33,505 --> 00:33:36,245 but it means we have more stuff for next week. 803 00:33:36,465 --> 00:33:38,445 - It does, yeah. There there's always more stuff 804 00:33:38,465 --> 00:33:39,525 to talk about in the cloud. 805 00:33:39,865 --> 00:33:41,085 - Indeed there is. 806 00:33:41,715 --> 00:33:45,045 With that Scott, we should probably go enjoy our weekends. 807 00:33:46,105 --> 00:33:48,805 My wife and one of the kids just took off 808 00:33:48,805 --> 00:33:50,325 for birthday party, so who knows 809 00:33:50,325 --> 00:33:51,925 what the other three are doing downstairs 810 00:33:51,925 --> 00:33:53,125 while we're recording this 811 00:33:53,685 --> 00:33:54,885 - we'll see 812 00:33:54,945 --> 00:33:57,525 before you get to your chaos, this is going to be the, 813 00:33:58,175 --> 00:34:00,525 let's see, this should come out on the 21st if things 814 00:34:00,525 --> 00:34:01,725 publish in the right order. 815 00:34:01,865 --> 00:34:06,165 Uh, 21 December. So this will be our second to last episode 816 00:34:06,345 --> 00:34:08,085 of calendar year 2023. 817 00:34:08,625 --> 00:34:12,085 It continues to be the season of giving. 818 00:34:12,335 --> 00:34:15,725 We're still trying to raise some moolah for Girls Who Code. 819 00:34:16,155 --> 00:34:19,485 I've seen some donations trickling in to those of you 820 00:34:19,485 --> 00:34:20,565 who have donated so far. 821 00:34:20,565 --> 00:34:23,485 Thank you very much. If you have the ability to, we'd love 822 00:34:23,485 --> 00:34:25,205 for you to give a little bit there 823 00:34:25,665 --> 00:34:27,285 so you can just, uh, go out. 824 00:34:27,285 --> 00:34:30,565 There's gonna be a link in the show notes for everybody 825 00:34:31,065 --> 00:34:33,525 as Ben just navigated me away from the 826 00:34:33,525 --> 00:34:34,685 piece of text that I was reading. 827 00:34:34,745 --> 00:34:36,165 Oh, sorry, I gotta stop doing shared, 828 00:34:36,225 --> 00:34:37,765 shared web documents with you. 829 00:34:38,025 --> 00:34:40,765 You're killing me there. So yeah, uh, give do Girls 830 00:34:40,785 --> 00:34:42,565 who code.com/ms. 831 00:34:42,575 --> 00:34:43,925 Cloud IT Pro 832 00:34:44,505 --> 00:34:47,245 and uh, yeah, uh, you only have to hear 833 00:34:47,245 --> 00:34:50,165 that SPI a couple more times and then we'll get into 2024 834 00:34:50,165 --> 00:34:52,245 and find something else to get on about. Awesome. 835 00:34:52,555 --> 00:34:55,165 - Well thanks and yes, absolutely go donate. 836 00:34:55,165 --> 00:34:57,245 We'll try to beat our limit 837 00:34:57,425 --> 00:35:01,085 or not Our limit beat our contributions of last year. 838 00:35:01,705 --> 00:35:04,725 So thanks again Scott. Enjoy your weekend. 839 00:35:04,955 --> 00:35:07,125 Hope everyone else is doing well 840 00:35:07,305 --> 00:35:09,325 and we will talk to you next week. Great, 841 00:35:09,325 --> 00:35:10,325 - Thanks Ben. 842 00:35:12,225 --> 00:35:13,405 - If you enjoyed the podcast, 843 00:35:13,905 --> 00:35:15,965 go leave us a five star rating in iTunes. 844 00:35:16,145 --> 00:35:17,485 It helps to get the word out 845 00:35:17,545 --> 00:35:20,965 so more it pros can learn about Office 365 and Azure. 846 00:35:21,585 --> 00:35:24,245 If you have any questions you want us to address on the show 847 00:35:24,385 --> 00:35:26,925 or feedback about the, feel free 848 00:35:26,985 --> 00:35:30,045 to reach out via our website, Twitter, or Facebook. 849 00:35:30,305 --> 00:35:32,405 Thanks again for listening and have a great day.

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Microsoft Cloud IT Pro Podcast

Ben Stegink, Scott Hoag

On the MS Cloud IT Pro Podcast, Scott and Ben discuss the Microsoft Cloud with a focus on IT Pros. They'll discuss the latest in Microsoft 365 and Office 365 News, Azure news and talk about their experiences with managing the Microsoft Cloud as well as interview industry experts on various cloud technology. They'll cover things such as SharePoint, Exchange, Microsoft Teams, PowerShell, Azure, Azure AD, Security, Networking, Storage, and the many other technologies and products that have made their way into the Microsoft 365 suite and Azure. To stay up-to-date on the latest in Microsoft Cloud news and gain some valuable knowledge as you deploy it within your own organization, make sure to tune in every week! Find out more at msclouditpropodcast.com.

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