>> Deborah: Hello and welcome to It's My Screen Time Too, the podcast where we review the programming the other critics ignore: stuff made for kids. Find out what to watch for family movie night, what to avoid altogether, and what you'll want to watch alone, voluntarily. I'm Deborah.
>> Katie: And I'm Katie.
>> Deborah: And I have three kids, ages 14, 11 and eleven.
>> Katie: And I have two kids, age eight and age five. Today we are reviewing Lyla in the loop on PBS Kids. This is a brand new animated series that just premiered. In our Harriet the Spy review, we talked about this upcoming interactive show that would be PBS kids first foray into AI. So of course we had to cover it. And now the time has come. Brief description of the show it's an animated series that debuted on PBS Kids on February 5, 2024. We've watched the first three episodes for our review. The episodes are 30 minutes long and structured like most preschool shows, with 2 15 minutes stories presented in each episode. The series is aimed at kids in the four to eight age range. The plot summary, according to the PBS Kids website, is this. Lyla Loops and her fantastical blue sidekick Stu use creative and strategic problem solving and critical thinking skills to help their family, friends, and community.
>> Deborah: Let's start with a critical first question. Is this good for kids? What do you think, Katie? What makes this okay or good for kids or inappropriate or bad for kids?
>> Katie: I mean, it's PBS kids content, right? So I don't think we ever have to worry that it's going to be downright inappropriate for kids. what do you think?
>> Deborah: I think it's great for kids. I think occasionally we've watched PBS shows that lean towards the duller side of children's entertainment, and this was not that. I think there's plenty for kids in that, late preschool, early elementary school age range to love. And for me, as a parent, it was fun enough for me to watch along with them.
>> Katie: I will say in the category of what makes this inappropriate or otherwise bad for kids is that I just don't know how I feel about the whole focus of the show being teaching kids how to give directions to computers. So if you have moral qualms on that front or question marks there, that could fall into the inappropriate category. But we'll definitely get more into the AI portion of things as we move forward.
>> Deborah: I know for me, okay, because it's like a focus on problem solving and little Stu is the conduit for that. But if you think of it like they're trying to program Stu more like, using any number of computer programming languages. That's how I was trying to think of it. Instead of like, they're giving, chat bot instructions that might come to life and destroy the world.
>> Katie: You're right there. I guess the whole, like, the computer is your friendly blue alien sidekick was what really stuck in my craw. Like, I don't necessarily want my children to be anthropomorphizing their interactions with the computers more than they already are.
>> Deborah: Yeah, totally. So, general thoughts?
>> Katie: Did you like it again? I feel like it's very of a piece with the quality of programming we've come to expect from PBS kids. So I liked it fine. I like it better for kids than I like it for grownups. I did not find it particularly pleasant or pleasurable to watch just because the thrust of the plot was always Lyla learning how to give instructions to Stu. And that becomes very transparent to a, grown up viewer very early on.
>> Deborah: Yeah.
>> Katie: What did you think?
>> Deborah: I think I liked the family. I focused more on the family dynamics and how they're not typically conforming to heteronormative. Like, dad goes to work, mom stays home. So I liked it for that aspect. And also there are some twins. I love twins.
>> Katie: Twins.
>> Katie: you love a twin story.
>> Deborah: So you went over why you don't think this is for grown ups. for me, it's not the most exciting thing to watch with kids, and my kids are honestly a little old for this type of show. Was there anything for grown ups for you?
>> Katie: Can I circle back to some more "Why isn't this for grown ups" things?
>> Deborah: Oh, sure, yeah.
>> Katie: Because educational shows are always going to be harder for grown ups to cling onto. Right. Because there's a stated purpose to teach our kids something. We don't need to learn those things because we presumably already know them. So it's already going to be a little bit more boring. Right.
>> Deborah: Except for the tying the shoe interstitial. I don't tie my shoes that way, I don't think.
>> Katie: Neither do I. It's the bunny ear technique, which is, I think, the less complicated technique and easier to explain.
>> Deborah: Yeah, but people our age didn't learn to tie our shoes the easy way. No, I don't know how to teach my. Well, maybe that's why they have that in there, because I don't know how to teach my kids the easy way.
>> Katie: We also watched linear television.
>> Deborah: Right.
>> Katie: You're right. I was thinking about that too, because it didn't involve like, the bunny going around the hole and then up and through the hole. Because that is a very complicated way to describe how to tie your shoes. Whereas if you just have two bunny ears and you tie them together, that's done. It's done.
>> Katie: One thing that I always cling to in these PBS kids and other similar educational show are, the jingles. And there were no jingles in this one. And it really bothered me. I was thinking about peg + cat and how sometimes I still sing the problem solved jingle. When I've finished emptying the dishwasher and I feel like I've accomplished something, I just let out a little. "Problem solved. The problem is solved. We solved the" y'know and there was nothing like that here.
>> Deborah: Yeah, it's not Daniel Tiger ish at all.
>> Katie: Yeah, no jingles. And just from a little parenting quibble standpoint, I really felt like I could justify those so called teach your kid to code apps. And I really don't want a tv show taking away that like one app that I could feel good about letting my kid play without
>> Katie: My interaction. I don't need that to come from the tv because I'm giving myself a pass in this other arena. But those were my two big why isn't it for grownups? But to answer your question for why it is for grown ups. First of all, every recipe in that restaurant that Mr. Loops owns or the Loops family owns involves pickles. And you know, I'm 100% there for that. the kids are really good about cleaning up after themselves fairly independently. Or like after just one reminder from the parent, which was nice.
>> Katie: And then I started thinking maybe I could really connect with Stu and start asking myself the complicated questions like where is he from? What is he? Is he an alien secretly plotting world domination? Is the Loop family seeing a collective imaginary friend? Are they under some sort of collective delusion? Are the customers at the diner just humoring all of them? Like, oh, here are these community members that act like they see this little blue creature and none of us see it, but they make a darn good pickle sandwich. So we got to just keep this going. And I thought maybe I could get some legs with that if I were watching this for a long time. I don't know. Did any of that cross your mind?
>> Deborah: I did spend a lot of time wondering, what is Stu animal? Is stu figment of imagination? Because he's not a. Rose. Is it Rosie the robot? The.
>> Katie: Yeah. Yeah. Except Rosie was like a self sufficient adult robot, whereas Stu needs so much help and training. Why are they leaving the help and training to the like?
>> Katie: Maybe the adults need to get involved with giving Stu his instructions if he is really just like a family assistant.
>> Deborah: Well, that brings me to one thing I liked about it for grown ups is that these parents were very hands off. Like, they were not helicopter parents. They were not snowplow parents. They were like, okay, try to make a good sandwich. And they were not in the kitchen. They were not hovering. So for me, that was, like, good modeling of how to let your kids achieve some independence on their own. I also think this is switching gears a little bit, but something I liked as an adult is that PBS kids, more than other streaming services, portray families in urban environments better than anybody else, because, like, the loops, they live in a city. They live in a neighborhood where they have to be very creative about creating a garden. There's lots of people, there's lots of traffic, there's lots of diverse situations, which I live in a city in an urban environment, and so I feel very represented by that aspect of the show.
>> Katie: Lyla also lives in an apartment, which is a non traditional milieu to show our heroes in, usually cartoons. Like to portray single family homes all the way. So I like that a lot, too.
>> Deborah: Yeah. Driving everywhere. But this was more, the Sesame street type of environment, which is nice.
>> Katie: Yeah, I like that.
>> Deborah: Should we get into the weeds a bit?
>> Katie: Let's get into the weeds a bit.
>> Deborah: Okay. Cast character standouts. Was there anyone that you particularly loved or hated?
>> Katie: Well, I just want to echo everything that you've already said about the parents. They both seemed very cool, down to earth. I got to know how you feel about the twins, because to me, they didn't feel differentiated enough. And I wonder if that's, like, something that gets to you in portrayals of twins. Like, they just kind of pretend like they're the same person in two bodies.
>> Deborah: Yes. Okay. Because I watched the show on my phone like a preschooler in a grocery cart who.
>> Katie: Wait, you sat in a grocery cart to watch it?
>> Deborah: No, but whenever I'm grocery shopping, you invariably see a very young child on a phone, on the PBS kids app, just so their parent can have a few minutes of peace while they pick out, like, non sugary cereal. So I thought I would try watching it on my phone, and it worked great, except I started on the second episode, the mystery Puzzle and the Stu express, instead of piece of cake and kibbles and coins. And so I missed the intro of the family. And so I thought that Lyla had, like, I thought they were the same person. I didn't realize it was two different girls and I didn't realize they were twins. I didn't realize it was a family with four kids. So yes, it does bother me a little. Mean. We could look up their names, but I didn't feel like their names or personalities were even very distinct.
>> Katie: They're all L names. So I know one of the twins is Louisa, but I memory holed the other name. Apologies.
>> Deborah: The little boy was super cute and whatever actor plays him does a really good job capturing the adorable preschool voice.
>> Katie: I love the dynamic of the caregiving, slightly older but still very young sibling. And the younger sibling. It reminded me of a constant favorite, Puffin Rock. Sort of the Oona Baba relationship where Lyla's there to take care of her little brother and they're going to get in adventures and scrapes together. But she's ultimately looking out for him in a very sweet way.
>> Deborah: Yeah, that's true. And I loved the parents. The dad, he's doing the laundry, but he's not doing like a ah, tide commercial bumbling job of it. He's just doing the laundry because that's what he does. The mom has like a bunch of stories about her jamaican background. I thought that was fun. Which brings us to...Can we talk a little bit more about Stu, please? Is he creepy or is he cute? Is he creepy-cute?
>> Deborah: Is he cute-creepy?
>> Deborah: Can you be cute and creepy? I thought he was more creepy than cute.
>> Katie: Yeah. Well, I think if you have any concerns about the machines rising up to take over the world, he's creepy and confusing and concerning.
>> Deborah: But there is a fun one where he gets programmed the wrong way. He sucks up all the frosting off the cupcakes because Lyla wants him to clean up the kitchen. And then once they realize the m mistake, he just puts some more frosting on the cupcakes. And I would personally love an AI bot creepy or cute who cleaned up the kitchen for me. Yeah, I can get behind that kind of technology.
>> Katie: You're right. I would want it for some things, but not for others.
>> Deborah: What did you think about the dialogue? Was it okay? Did it work for you? Anything else notable about the writing?
>> Katie: Well, and again, this comes back to a bedrock of all the educational shows, is that it's going to feel a level of obvious that just your plain old storytelling doesn't have to. They're spelling something out for a child and the thing they are spelling out is how to give directions to a computer program. So that's never going to feel natural. It's always going to feel clunky and like it has a big lampshade on it. So I guess it was fine from that perspective. What did you think?
>> Deborah: There were quite a few scenes where there were things that I've tried to tell my kids, but they don't listen very well because it's coming from me, their mom, like how to set up a good puzzle station separating out the edge pieces from the middle pieces. I was like, yes, maybe kids would listen to a cartoon better than their own parents to learn some of these things.
>> Katie: I am with you on the inefficient jigsaw puzzle doing. I feel like this was a skill I had down well before. My oldest is now in third grade. But I knew how to separate the pieces and what the most efficient way was to start a puzzle. And they just don't believe that I know anything. Which fair.
>> Deborah: It's not a good idea to put gummy worms in a sandwich. I don't know. It seems like my kids have to learn these things the hard way every time. What did you think about the animation style? To me, it looked very pbsy.
>> Katie: Yes, I think nothing really innovative to write home about on the animation front, but it was pleasant. Like, the colors are vibrant. It didn't look bad.
>> Katie: Okay.
>> Deborah: As for the AI component of the show, we've talked a lot about Stu. When we first read about this show, like last year in 2023, we were promised features where you can interact, or viewers can interact with Lyla and ask Lyla questions. And that functionality is not there yet.
>> Katie: No. And I was trying to find it.
>> Deborah: Yeah, I was trying to find it, too, but then I read an article that promised those sometime in the future.
>> Katie: All right, well, that was a bit of a letdown because when I discovered that instead of having an AI component to play around with and experiment with, it was instead going to be built into the plot of each episode. That was a real disappointment for me.
>> Deborah: yeah, I think to me, I was picturing something like Dora and interacting like that, which then I was thinking, like, kids, ages four to eight, they don't need to actually interact because their imaginations are so good that they can believe that this person on the screen is talking to them when they're breaking the wall and asking questions. Like, kids have been doing that for ever since tv was around. Like blues clues, Dora, those types of shows that address the viewer. I don't know that we need kids interacting with AI, Lyla
>> Katie: Yeah, I mean, I guess the counterpoint to that would be if they're rejecting an educational television show because they'd rather be playing a video game. Can you give them some, of that, interactivity within the educational television show to kind of bring them back?
>> Deborah: Sure, that makes sense. Well, we should put a pin in this one and set up a Google news alert, because when those episodes do come out where we can talk to Lyla and she'll talk back to us, I definitely want to see what that's like.
>> Katie: Yeah, we got to give it a shot.
>> Deborah: Anything else before we move on to our evergreen questions?
>> Katie: No. Let's do it.
>> Deborah: What adult movie or show does this compare to for you?
>> Katie: I think it's the restaurant setting. But I came back to The Bear again, and just how everyone was working together to get everything done, I don't know. Educational shows are a stretch for comparing to grown up shows. But what did you have for us?
>> Deborah: okay, well, I have a Bear one for later, but for this question, I thought of domestic dramas like Parenthood and brothers and sisters, because you never really see anyone or we haven't met anybody outside of the Loop family. That's significant.
>> Katie: Except for the neighbor.
>> Deborah: Oh, the kid neighbor. Yeah. I guess I was including him as a Loop. He's not modern family. Those types of shows where it's all very family focused. But then there was that scene where they're using the wire hanger to fish a coin out from underneath a locked door. And I could not help but think of the no wire hanger scene in, Is it Joan Collins?
>> Katie: It's mommy dearest.
>> Katie: Yes.
>> Deborah: Mommy dearest.
>> Katie: That's the name.
>> Deborah: Oh, my gosh.
>> Katie: Classic.
>> Deborah: I wonder if the people who write this show are even old enough to know about that movie, because for somebody my age, that's immediately what you think of anytime you even see a wire hanger.
>> Katie: I know, but jokes on Joan Crawford, because how would she have gotten that coin out from under the door if she didn't have wire hangers?
>> Deborah: Were you able to cast the gritty HBO reboot?
>> Katie: I, like Issa Rae for the Lyla part, particularly with her no nonsense, capable attitude that she brought to her role as President Barbie.
>> Deborah: I like that.
>> Katie: How about you?
>> Katie: Okay.
>> Deborah: I would focus more on the parents, and I would cast, Bear style, Jeremy Allen White as the dad and Ayo Edebiri as the mom, because there was a lot of tension, like sexual tension between Carme and Sydney in both seasons of the bear. I thought I would like to see them get together. I would like to see that. And the kids are missing because the AI has kidnapped them for ransom. and so they have to mortgage their restaurant or something to come up with ransom, money.
>> Katie: I don't think that those characters from the bear could handle that kind of stress.
>> Deborah: No, their heads would explode, for sure. Okay, this is a fraught question. I feel like for this one, was it better when we were kids?
>> Katie: Well, just on a very surface level, there's a much wider variety of educational programming to teach kids, a different array of things. So in that sense, yes, I guess. But the idea that this needs to exist is troubling to me.
>> Deborah: Yeah, I distinctly remember watching a, 3-2-1 contact segment about acid rain when I was probably in the ages four to eight category in the 1980s. And wouldn't you like to go back to the time when acid rain was like the most threatening thing to our lives on earth?
>> Katie: Yes, I would.
>> Deborah: Yeah. So I have to say, in this case, AI, it was a little better when we were kids.
>> Katie: Yeah.
>> Katie: Okay.
>> Deborah: Would you ever watch this alone, voluntarily?
>> Katie: No. I mean, like you said, I'm looking forward to goofing around with the eventual AI components whenever they materialize, but I do not think that I will visit the loop family again voluntarily, by myself.
>> Deborah: Honestly, I might watch that bunny ear shoe tie interstitial and try to just expand my skill set.
>> Katie: Okay.
>> Deborah: But otherwise, I wouldn't sit down and watch this alone.
>> Katie: Can I tell you how it feels to tie your shoes using the bunny ear method? Because I've experimented with it a little bit, yes. it feels easy and it feels like cheating.
>> Deborah: How would you rate Lyla in the Loop on a scale of one to five stars, which is always how we do it?
>> Katie: Yeah, I, couldn't get past my ishy feelings about the whole concept. so I gave it three stars because it's an educational show. I like it. I think it's well made. It's the teaching our kids how to speak to their robot overlords part that kind of stuck in my craw. How about you?
>> Deborah: I would give it a four. I thought it was pretty well done. And I, unlike, you, looked past the AI stuff to come up with my rating.
>> Katie: I love that the AI wasn't there, the component wasn't there to play around with it, and you were just able to wash your hands of it and move on, and I just could not let it go. Deborah.
>> Katie: Mhm?
>> Katie: We read so many articles about how this is coming, I felt deliberately misled by the fine folks at pbs kids. All right, see it or skip it?
>> Deborah: For kids in the recommended age range, I think it's good.
>> Katie: Yeah. You never know what's going to hit for kids, like which of those educational programs they're going to tolerate. So if you don't have one on the books right now, why not? I don't see anything actively wrong with it, and they might like it.
>> Deborah: And you cannot beat PBS for ad free, really accessible content.
>> Katie: Yeah.
Next week, we'll talk about screen time in the news
All right. Well, thanks for listening to this review of Lyla in the Loop. Next week, we'll be back with a conversation about screen time in the news. If you enjoyed our show today, please recommend the show to one friend you think would enjoy it, too. We love growing our community of parents for sanity and screen time. Want more words about screen time? Subscribe to our newsletter, at myscreentimetoo.com Tune in next time for more real talk about the movies and tv we watch with our kids because we have to, and sometimes because we like to. Bye.
