Mike:
0:00
All right, everyone. Welcome to the Real Estate Game Changers show. I'm your host, Mike McKay, based in Jacksonville, Florida. And each and every week we do this show with people who are changing the game of real estate all over the country. If anyone is in Jacksonville and you're working in sales and you've thought about getting into real estate, send me a DM on Instagram. We are looking for one more salesperson to join our team this quarter. Uh, this week on the show, we have Rodrigo. Rodrigo, welcome to the show
Rodrigo:
0:28
Thanks for having me, man.
Mike:
0:30
for sure. Uh, so for the people who don't know you, could you tell us a little bit about how you got into the real estate business and how that's led you to where you are today?
Rodrigo:
0:41
Yeah, so I'm from Brazil, um, came to the U. S. when I was 16 to 17 years old, played soccer in high school And college, had some odd jobs. And then I was living in South Carolina. Um, it's, it's a funny story, but my salary was 20, 000 a year. My check was like 1, 000 a month. It was ridiculous. Uh, but I was working for a school and lived for free at the boarding program. And I love the community. The community was awesome. But my wife got pregnant, right? Uh, and I started looking at my paycheck and I'm like, my, I, it was Hilton Head, South Carolina. So beautiful island, you know, you cannot ask for a better place to live, right? Very expensive, uh, to live there as well. Um, and she got pregnant and, um, then things clicked for me, right? Like, Oh man, my salary is 20, 000. Uh, plus a little things that I did here and there, soccer coach per season would make two, 3, 000. It adds up, right? But as it was, it's still super low. And I literally start Googling like how I can make money on the side, uh, extra things to do, and then affiliate marketing came in, it'll show up, you know, uh, drop shipping, uh, and then suddenly there was a pop up ad that said, If you are a newbie and you want to make money from home and you're not scared of talking to people, you should buy a franchise and be a wholesaler. Uh, it makes it make 20 40k a month for that. Right? Um, And that got my attention, right? Okay. I have a few hours a day I can't do that. But is it scary right talking to people about buying their homes? So I had no idea what it was man assignment. I had no idea. Um, So I started doing more homework. I called them, uh, this franchise organization out of Arizona They are one of the big, they were one of the biggest wholesalers in the country. And they said, Oh, you're a perfect guy. Uh, you should join our team. Uh, but it's a hundred thousand dollars. Uh, there's always a catch, right? Um, and 15 percent royalties. And because I was stupid and naive, which sometimes is good, right? Because you take, you don't, you're not too judgmental. I said, you know what? I want to change my life. So, use my credit cards, go loan, took loans and, and I did it. I didn't even know what it was I was doing, man. I, I did it. Uh, so three years ago, June 1st, I went to Arizona and I said, Hey, I'm staying here for a month. I'm not leaving until, uh, I become an expert on this thing called wholesaling. And I literally didn't have a clue what I was doing. Um, and the first week, man, it literally like, I, I couldn't sleep because I was so afraid to fail because things click, right? I paid a hundred thousand dollars to try to buy someone's house that I don't even have the money to buy. I was, you know, I'm from Brazil when I'm talking about, you know, doing business in the U S I was freaking out. Um, and I'm like, you know what, I'm going to do everything I can for my family. And I'm not going to go back until I crack this down. So I got an Airbnb. I literally told my host on that Airbnb, can I use your bike for a month? I will rent it from you. So I, I wouldn't take Uber's right. Cause then he adds. It's more expensive. I was on the budget. Uh, I would literally would go to a small shop in the corner and buy a big rotisserie chicken And just devour that throughout the week um It oh man, it was I was watching my bank account every day um and and for that month I So they they taught me two things. They taught me how to talk to agents and how to talk to wholesalers That's it. That little, there's no direct seller is like daisy chain with wholesalers that know the brands and talk to agents, do all agents outreach. That's it. Very simple. Right? Uh, so that's what I did. I first week, they gave me 500 properties to comp. So I become, I became a really master in comping and then agent outreach, agent outreach, agent outreach. And I started getting worried because it's not easy. You know, it's not as easy as they promote it. Um, but I knew that I just need to follow it. I keep doing one after the other. And in my third week, I will, I paid four weeks for the Airbnb and I started getting very nervous. In my third week, um, I found the lead and it was a piece of landing three, two, two zero seven zip code. Uh, there was a teardown structure on it and I don't remember exactly the numbers, but it was something like 70, 80, 000. Um, and, and I look at the guys at the headquarters. I'm like, I don't know what to do here. She said she would take this. This amount what do I do? Right? I told her I was going to call her in a few hours I needed to talk to the team Uh, what do I do? So they said hey say this this is the contract template, but you can ask her to send your contract I'll put in your llc Putting my llc. Are you crazy? I don't have money man And this is after I bought it. It was insane. Um, um, but But then so they helped me I put it on the contract Uh came back to Jacksonville while the inspection period was going through Uh shout out to Giannina and Katie Romero from St. Augustine Uh, they they saw one of my posts. They sent me a message and they sold to Richard Riggs um And it was I think was 14 000. We split 50 57k uh, and when that check came in I cried i'm like No freaking way. Oh, I stupid guy from Brazil made money selling a house. You know, um,
Mike:
7:05
I'll tear it down.
Rodrigo:
7:06
baby. Yeah, I like baby. We're rich, you know, uh, because I was making 1, 000 a month, you know, to make 7, 000, you know, by talking a few hours on the phone. I never saw the property, right? Janina did the other half of the of the job. All I did was lock it up. And sign the document i'm like man, this is crazy. How many more can I do? Right? So August I closed one and I so I started in june 1st, right? Uh, and then july to august I closed that one Um, and then september I closed another one october. I closed three November I closed seven and then it's when things took off i'm like I felt confident, right? Um, and on September to October, uh, I saw how hard it was to do agent outreach, right? I like I cannot survive by myself and eventually it's going to get harder and harder. So what I did is I told my wife, she's from Denver. I said, Hey, you are, you want to stay home mom. Can you do me a big favor? Can you go to Denver for two months? And leave me alone. I literally said those words to her. Go spend the entire month of November, December in Denver. I will go there for christmas and we come back together because I was still freaking out, right? I was still like I have the 100k i'm paying on that. I have you know We are not living for free anymore in south carolina. We are in jacksonville. She's a stay at home mom It was all on me, right? So she's like, are you sure i'm like, yeah, please go and i'm gonna change your lives and Then november closed seven deals december was five or six And then I didn't tell her when I met, when I saw her in, in Denver for Christmas. And I said, she asked me, so how are we doing? I'm like, I think we are okay, but you know, and she's like, what do you mean? Okay, can we pay the bills? And i'm like, well, I think we can because we just made 45 000 last month and she's like shut up, you know You're you're lying because I was keeping all that into the llc business account So she was not seeing it, right? She would just see what i'm transferring to her personal account and she has access but she doesn't really look at it Um, and she's like, no way, what's 45 and you're closing all this. What's going on here? Can we buy a house? Um, and that's, that's when I knew there was no going back. Um, and a couple months later I started doing direct seller. Uh, because I understand, I started understanding better, right? Cause the, the agent market is, is very tricky. It's hard to make a, a home run of like a home run, a big clip with an agent. Right. Cause they push the price high. You need the price low. There is competition. Um, so, so I started adding a little bit of direct seller, uh, partner with a couple of people and, um, and still had to pay the royalty fees, You know, even though I was spending money on direct seller, so I'm like, okay, I'm going to sell my franchise and, and take this to the next level. And that's, that's how, that's, that was my first like six to eight months in business. Um, and, and from there, it's, it's just, that's it. I sold the franchise and took off.
Mike:
10:41
And what does your business look like today? All
Rodrigo:
10:45
So today we have, so it's me and my partner, Eric. Uh, he is the system guy, the, um, operational guy, right? Anything related to the CRM softwares, the managing the code callers, hiring, find, pay, paying the team. It's him. Um, uh, getting the leads like the list on prop stream or whatever we get the lists. Uh, I deal with say it was acquisition in this book. Um, so it's me, him, five code callers and one acquisition specialist. Um, so that's, that's what we look like today. And we are, we have, uh, six deals on the pipeline. I don't think all six will close this month because there are some probate issues. It's probably going to be four or five out of the six. Um, well, we, we've been consistently closing somewhere between four and six deals a month. Um, so that's how I have reached around 200 deals in the past three years. Cause that's, if I do one deal a week. It's around 55 plus deals a year. Um, so, um, so that's, that's what it looked like today. We are pushing really hard to code callers. We have code callers from Pax10. We pay them easily, like three to$7 an hour from up work, you know, and, um, we manage them. We try some agencies before, but there is always, you know, pros and cons of using agencies. Um, but we, we like it. We, so we interviewed actually 11 or 12 good callers. We were expecting to fight one, maybe two. And we actually got four out of those 12, which we were very impressed. Um, and how I did with my partner is we interviewed all them together and we said, okay, now you're going to list from one to 12 year ranks and I'm going to list my one to 12. And we're going to see if we can find two to four, right. And our top four was the same. We like, no questions asked. Let's go. Uh, yeah, it was perfect, man. It was like the number four to five, we kind of alternated. Um, literally the only reason why my four to five was different is because she was late. Uh, and for me, if you're late in your first job interview, that's not a good song. I don't care the excuse. Um, it could be a big excuse. I don't care. Uh, no, I will never be late to a job interview. I was never late to a job interview or just give a heads up, right? Hey, I'll be late because there is a big crash. Three people die. I'll be late. There was no message, right? She was literally just late and I'm like, don't want her. She, she's great. She was great. On the interview, but she was late. Um, so she's going to be my five.
Mike:
13:41
Yeah, and what specifically are you looking for when you're hiring a cold caller to know that they're going to be good? Yeah. Mm hmm.
Rodrigo:
13:50
Uh, honestly, English, you can tell my English is not that good, but if I can do it, someone can, right? Someone else can, uh, it's not a big, it's an excuse, but it's not an excuse, right? If you sound confident and you know what you're talking about, you have a chance, right, especially in Florida, where most people are foreign, you know, a lot of Uh, the guy that I shared the office space, uh, Sinan, he, his English is worse than mine. I make fun of him, you know, uh, and he's a multimillionaire guy, very successful, but he knows what he's talking about. He he's a hustler. Um, so it's one is how, how good their English is. Can the seller understand that? Right? Uh, confidence is a big, big thing. I think confidence is a little more important than English or that the English is just because if your English skills are very good, but you're not confident. Like imagine the seller listening to you, right? But if your English skills is not very good, but you're confident like me, I'm very confident on the phone, but sometimes people can understand me, but I can, Hey, I'm sorry if you don't understand, if you didn't understand me, what I meant was this, right? Um, you fight to keep the seller on the phone, right? Or the buyer, right? If I'm doing this for, Um, so confidence, um, is one of the most important. I don't care about if you have 10 years experience in real estate, uh, actually the first guy on our list, uh, he had no experience. Um, he's a young guy, single, I think 20, 22 years old, but he, like, he was asking us, um, what can I tell you now that will prove to you that I'm worth hiring me? You know, uh, what can I do that you're going to say yes right now? Uh, I don't have the experience, but I'm hungry. Uh, he's that guy that. I want him in my team, but he needs to be coached. But if you re coach him, well, he can take off and he is the best performing code caller so far, which is funny, right? Uh, his name is Ferris. Uh, and he's always man on our chats on Slack channel or morning meetings at 9am, he's always the one asking questions, getting people pumped, you know, and. He's like, bro, let's go. Today is going to be a great day. Uh, you know that that's what you want in your team, right? You don't want that guy that has 10 years of experience and he's going to talk crap behind the scenes, right? Uh, you don't want to complain, right? So as soon as he opened his mouth, I'm like, I look at Eric cause we were on the same room watching it. I'm like I like him. Yeah
Mike:
16:38
What's your expectation for your cold callers? Like how many leads do you want them to bring in per week?
Rodrigo:
16:44
yeah, so I told that Minimum, no questions asked one. They they have to if there is no one lead I have to look at the numbers why there is no Lead
Mike:
16:55
Lead per day or per week or
Rodrigo:
16:57
our day per day per day, but we've seen that Uh, one two three has been very average Uh, sometimes it's more than three, but you know when we put a fresh list You know Um, it depends the day too, right? Some days like one day we got, I even messaged you a couple weeks ago. We got 20 something leads and we were like, what's going on here? You know, we didn't do anything different. We just called and we got 20 something leads. No new list. Nothing You know, we just dialed the phone Um, but we noticed that it's being one, two, three average a day Um, some days more some days less per per code caller per day, right? um, because what we notice is That if they are bringing one, two, three leads a day You And it's consistent for the week, right? So in the, during the week is going to be, uh, five to 15 leads. Uh, so at the total, at the end of the month is going to be 20 to some, I don't know, I'm really good at math. 60 leads should be one deal per code caller. It should be, uh, unless. There is a problem on the sales process or, you know, um, so that that's our goal to close at least one deal a month, which with each code caller. But I think two per month is very doable depending on the numbers that they bring. Um, plus the follow ups, right? Because a lot of, most of the leads are follow up. They go to the follow up funnel. Um, So but normally the hot leads like the one we got today Uh, it's it's usually like one per month per cold caller.
Mike:
18:37
Gotcha. And then what's your vision for your business for the next three years?
Rodrigo:
18:43
Yeah, so Uh, my background in real estate the past three years is I was a wholesaler right wholesale I would I would promote myself as a wholesaler. Hey, are you a cash buyer? I'm your guy that's gonna hunt deals for you, right? uh because of the market and because of You You know, the, the margin on the profit, the deals, right? We are switching your mindset. We've been switching a while in a while, but we are switching to be an acquisition company because the money is on the sourcing of the deal, right? Uh, cause if you source the deal, if your company sources the deal and you can put the leads in the right funnel and you control the funnels, then you're talking, right? We don't want to, we don't want to be just a wholesale company. Uh, we want to. Use our partnerships or friends or or cash buyers and we can flip with them or we can you know we can lend from them or You know, we've done, we've done a lot of things on the side, right? Um, not just wholesaling we've done with, we've been flipping, we've been partnering with people, JV partnerships, and, and that has opened our mind. Um, but cause you know, I'm not saying regulations are coming because some states regulations are there. I think Florida is pretty safe. In terms of regulations, but I I want to be prepared, right? Uh, if some like you saw texting texting is done. It's gone, right? um and Code calling. I don't know if they can stop us from code call Um, I think it might get harder. You might have to be smarter how you do it I don't know if they can stop us 100 But so our idea is to become we are already an acquisition company sourcing deals You Um, make our code calling operation consistent and then focusing on inbound marketing. So creating a presence online, um, and, and going for inbound as well. Um, so that's, that's kind of the vision and, and be an acquisition company, right? People calling us, Hey, I want, I want to, I want to be part of it. What can I do? I can be a buyer. I can be a lender. I can be whatever. Um, so that's kind of the idea because if we only rely on wholesaling We depend on buyers. We depend on the market we depend, you know Um, I I've been burned with, you know, I, this is crazy. I don't think I ever told you this. I've sold seven deals or eight. I think, let's say seven, seven deals for 0, 0. And when I looked at the deals, some deals, yeah, it was tough, but some deals that were money that that's why buyers bought it. Right. So, but I was really like, I need the money. I need to wholesale this. I'm going to take whatever I can. And if I don't, I help the seller, help the buyer build my relationships and done. Um, um, but yeah, that's, that's kind of like the vision. Now. Um, I will tell you this, cause I know a lot of players, especially players we know in town here in Jacksonville, they are all about the big spreads. Look for the big spreads. I agree a hundred percent, but I think if I can help the seller and take a small spread home, and it's an easy dispo, I will do every day of the week, right? Um, uh, if it's literally one call away and I'm only going to make 2, 000, but I can help the seller, I will do it. Now, if it's taking my time, I'm just going to cancel because it's, it's not going to work. Um, but that's how I build my volume fast. Um, that was my mentality. Now I'm trying to switch a little bit, uh, make sure I take care of the company, but also helping other people as well.
Mike:
22:38
So what have you noticed on the wholesale side like maybe the disposition side that's changed over the last, let's call it six months. Uh, uh,
Rodrigo:
22:47
Ooh, a lot.
Mike:
22:49
uh,
Rodrigo:
22:49
Um, buyers are very picky. Especially if you don't have seven perfect comps to prove your numbers, right? If it's like one comp has 270 and one comp has 290, they're gonna choose 265, right? Um, which I understand because that's what I do too. Especially when I go do a JV partnership to flip a property, right? Or when I look for a lender to, that's, you got to be careful, right? When you look at the stats, some areas are struggling to sell. Um, I noticed that I used to really be very strategic on looking at sold comps. Now I noticed that every buyer is looking on what's on the market comps, right? They don't care about the sold comps anymore. They care about what's on the market. I don't care if this property sold for 300 last week. What is on the market? What is pending? How long it's been pending? How long it took to to get pending? Uh, why this one is sitting if it's Really nicely done, you know, uh, that that's one of the biggest changes I've seen and they are putting an extra cushion on their numbers, right? Um, so like an extra 10 percent or whatever it is, depending on the buyer. Um, but that's, that's the biggest thing I've seen. Uh, the, the best buyers, the top 10, top 20 buyers, cash buyers, they still buy, they have to buy, right? Cause they need to make sure that crew gets fed and. You know, um, but, but they are, they are picky and they can be right. Cash, cash is king, you know? Um, so they know there is less competition, uh, right now. Um, so that's what I've noticed.
Mike:
24:36
Yeah, we hadn't sent out anything, anything wholesale on our end in a while, cause I was just closing on a lot of stuff and flipping it or wholetailing it and, uh, the last two days I sent out some properties, um, Wholesale, because we have too many flips coming up. We just can't handle them all. So I'm trying to unload one or two. And yeah, I was surprised that people were just being very, very picky. Like I felt like one of them, I left like a pretty good, you know, 40 grand easy flip spread on there. I mean, maybe not easy. It was still a 50 grand renovation, but I was, you know, like, it's not that I don't think we'll sell it at that price. I think we will, but I was like, In six, I feel like a year ago, I would have sold it. One person would have replied. I'll take it to the email,
Rodrigo:
25:24
yeah.
Mike:
25:24
Like immediately. And now it might, you know, some people are like, well, that's not quite the area of town I'm looking to do things in at the moment, I'm like, what,
Rodrigo:
25:34
Yeah. Yeah.
Mike:
25:35
have you, what have you done on your end to like, overcome that? Hmm. Hmm.
Rodrigo:
25:42
properties, right. When I started, cause I was still learning. You know, I used to trust everybody that said they were buyers. I never vetted buyers, right? But because of my volume, I noticed that I was selling to the same people, even though there were a lot of people said, I'm interested. I'm interested. I'm interested. When can I go see it? The same people were buying, right? And I'm like, Hmm, these people are not giving me headaches. So let me build the relationship and when I find a property to this person, I know it's one phone call. Right. And it's not like it used to be one, two phone calls away from selling. Now it's not all the time like that. You know, I'm the only one doing this in our business. Um, some deals require a lot of work, um, but it's just, I think building the relationships were super important, uh, because especially there is a lot of wholesalers that they don't even run their numbers, right? They lock something up just to lock it up and they, they ask you, Hey, you want to buy and they waste your time. They lose their reputation with their buyers. Right, and that's one thing that I learned very quick. Like how can I get that buyer to answer my message when I sent to him? Right, and it's it's literally running the numbers explaining why he should buy right? So just a quick funny story like there is a deal that we had a couple weeks ago Um, and I called this buyer and like look I found your property if you don't buy you're stupid I don't know. I don't know what else you're asking me to do You And, and he looked and he said, would you buy this? I'm like, yes, because of this and this and this, okay, done. And, and I was listening to calm, like I literally call him stupid. And I explained to him why he should buy. And it's what he always told me, right? I found exactly what you're looking for. Pull the trigger, buy it. Don't play with me. Let's let's move forward. You make money. I make money. Um, and I think that's what set me a little apart is because I was You know, like if I have a good excuse, sometimes we got to try, right? It's a little tricky. ARV could be 300, could be 250. Uh, I take gambles sometimes, especially if the seller is desperate and I want to help the seller, I will gamble on some properties, but there are some properties that you just know, right? It just, there is no way you shouldn't buy this one. And I don't want to send to a hundred people and have a hundred headaches. I want to sell it. Just pay what I'm asking you to pay, you know. Um,
Mike:
28:23
How many real buyers do you think are there are there in Jacksonville? I've always wondered, like, how many people actually actually buy.
Rodrigo:
28:31
oh man, um, So, I'll tell you this, the good thing about Jacksonville is that the price point is still cheap, right? Compared to Tampa, Orlando, Miami. So, even you being a newbie and never have done any flips, you're If you find a good deal you can find the money money is not an excuse, right? If it's a freaking good spread someone will lend you the money or will partner with you, right? Um, so that makes it easy to become a buyer, right? So anybody can say i'm a buyer because You know, you don't have to prove 15 flips if you can find one really good deal But now becoming a buyer in tampa is way harder, right becoming a buyer in miami is way harder because the price point is harder Um the cost of the money the lending and it's more expensive jacksonville is still cheap, right? Like the property we got today. I don't know if she signed yet, but she agreed on the price for 100k Right, uh, three two There will be lenders to land on that property right because it's just cheap. It's so Not risk at all, right? um So that makes the barrier of entry very easy. Um, and and vetting those people is very hard man very hard Um, and but what I notice is a lot of buyers that were buyers before Now are wholesaling more I've noticed that I'm not gonna mention names But a lot of people that I know we're buying now are mainly wholesaling and that's not nothing bad about it, right? But there are a lot of wannabes man a lot and I'm not here to waste time Um, I'm here to get the best price for my house, but I always tell everybody. That's why some people like working with me because say, if you give me my price, I will shake hands right now. No questions asked. And I know you will perform. So I'm not looking for a bidding war. Um, but,
Mike:
30:33
what do you do to, what do you do to vet people? I know you said it's difficult, but what do you, what do you do?
Rodrigo:
30:39
So right now I actually have a pretty good database of buyers that I can trust, and usually they always buy my deals, but the ones that they don't buy, what I do is I listen for their feedback. You know, I say, Hey, why didn't you buy? Why don't you want this? Or can you just give me some feedback? Cause if I go for price reduction, I'm going to leverage your price. And then we both went right. Cause this was tricky. Comp's are tricky. And because of my relationship, they do give me feedback, right? So when I sent to them and they pass, I'm like, okay, I sent to my top 10 buyers. Let me adjust based on their feedback and send to the rest, right? Um, and when I sent to the rest, I know the problems because they already told me. So I made sure that whoever is talking to me is aware about the problems, sound savvy and has done deals, right? Hey, can you send me like your last flip? I'm just curious about your product and what you do. Um, and a lot of people get that, right? Uh, well, I haven't done in a while. I can send you later. Just send me the address. You know, if you've done a flip in the past two weeks, you know, the address, you know, uh, if you have a proper list that, you know, the address, um, Yeah, you know, you, yeah, yes, at least the street, right? Um, you know, so, uh, it's, it's easy, it's easy to catch those. Uh, you know, just asking the right question. Now, it is getting very hard to find the big sharks, uh, in my opinion. Like the big cash buyers, the buying volume. Because of this market, uh, so like what I noticed is when I started three, two years ago in the range There were a lot of solid cash buyers because the market was hot hedge funds were also here, you know And I felt like the big big cash buyers multi million dollar buyers They kind of you know are taking their time or are holding their money or putting their money somewhere else And the ones that are still buying volume are crushing it You So that's kind of what I see. I might be wrong, but that's kind of what I see.
Mike:
32:51
I, I, I'm curious, so back to my question before, like how many, how many real buyers do you think there are in Jacksonville? And I don't mean someone who buys like one or two a year. I mean, someone who does at least, I don't know, a deal a month, you know, they do 12 deals a year or more, maybe.
Rodrigo:
33:09
One deal a month. If I have local, right, local buyers.
Mike:
33:15
I guess just serious buyers. Yeah. I mean, I guess they
Rodrigo:
33:18
no, because there are a lot of
Mike:
33:19
a year.
Rodrigo:
33:20
there is a lot of buyers from miami california buying jacksonville, right? But I would say locals my guess is 50 less than 50 that buy one a month. Yeah, my guess
Mike:
33:33
yeah. Yeah. I never knew cause I didn't never focus as much on dispositions, but I'm, you know, racking the brain for people. I know I don't have that many people on my buyers list, probably 20.
Rodrigo:
33:42
Yeah, I think I think is less than 50. Uh if I have to guess right Show me that for the three past years you've been buying consistently one a month uh, I would say You know, it's probably less than 50 that can prove You know, um, it's their business, right? Hey, I have to flip one a month, you know, uh, you know, that, that, that's business mode. It's not that, Oh, I found three this month. It's like, I'm looking for 12 flips this year. Um, you know, average clip size 30 K this is my business. I'm serious. Uh, it's not, I don't think he's too many. I really don't. Uh now wannabes or seasonal investors, you know, I think there's a lot um, but
Mike:
34:31
Yeah. So you focus on the ones who are like the 50, is that who you're focusing on? You don't want to deal with the people who are doing one or two to a year type thing?
Rodrigo:
34:41
because Right now with this market a lot of people are not performing, right? Uh lenders are a big problem uh Buyers, they say they buy and they say they're gonna put emd, but they won't inspect the problem the property Even though they said they're gonna buy sight unseen Um It's and then we had buyers backing up on the same day, uh, and backing out the same day and coming up with excuses so they can get the AMD back. Um,
Mike:
35:08
they're backing out of closing,
Rodrigo:
35:10
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We had we had one the in palm coast the He said hey, I will buy it and everything was going well, and then the week of closing he disappeared and then Two days later. Everybody's trying to look for him and he said oh, I just didn't get the lender So I i'm not gonna buy i'm like, oh, thanks for the heads up man. Appreciate that, you know, two days later after you know so we noticed that that's You Kind of common right now because I talk to friends and they do the same thing, you know So I don't want the headache, you know, I want to pay my team I want to help the seller and I want to keep moving the machine Um, so I would rather sell to my top 20, top 40, top 50 and, and be done. Um, that, that's just me, right? Instead of blasting a property or just do innovation, put on MLS, buy and hold, hotel it. Um, that's another strategy that we are doing as well.
Mike:
36:13
Oh, you are, you are doing some, some innovations.
Rodrigo:
36:17
Novation, we haven't done one yet, but we have taken a property and just listed it, right? A mobile home, we doubled our money. We bought it for 45, 000 and we sold for 107, 000. Uh, and all we did was 3k trash out put on the market got a cash offer, right? We literally double it Um,
Mike:
36:38
you. You didn't text me that deal. I must have missed
Rodrigo:
36:40
you know, you're not in my top 10 buyers, man. I just We did talk about it man because it's in lee it's three hours away we did talk
Mike:
36:49
talk about it. You're right. No,
Rodrigo:
36:50
yeah, Yeah. no, um, but now we we did um, what was the other one we did a couple we've been doing it You Uh, we've, uh, we, like I said, we share his office space with a, a cash buyer. So I'm literally 10 steps away from his room and I say, Hey, we are doing this. I don't care what you think. Uh, cause he, he trusts me, right? We build a relationship. I've sold him a lot of properties. Uh, he says if he sees I'm confident is because we, he should put his money into it. Um, that's, you know, it's because of him now that I'm into mobile homes. You know and funny enough you are too, you know, so we we exchange ideas um but But yeah, that's that's it. We we that's why i'm saying like we are an acquisition company if this If it's on the culture and it's telling me I should buy and flip it, I will buy and flip it. If it's telling me I should just wholesale and make 20K, hell yeah, let's do it. If I should do the burn method, I do the burn method. You know, um, let the deal tell me what to do.
Mike:
38:01
How do you decide though? Like, how do you decide which bucket to put it in?
Rodrigo:
38:05
Yeah, so that's a good question. There is no rule of thumb, but basically if it's a quick flip, And I can basically double it. I will, I will try to flip it or just whole tail it. So when I say double is like, can I, can I make 20 wholesaling off market or 40 after flipping it? Right. And if he's a quick flip, if he's like, we're talking about roof floors and paints. 40k is bad, right? But if it's a six month full gods, I'm gonna go for the 20. I don't care, you know. Um, and even 10 because my clips on wholesaling is not that big still. My average is still around the 10 mark, right? Some deals are bigger, some deals are Um, but yeah, so, so that's it. We've been, we've been very strategic on what bucket to put the lead. And, and I think that's why we, we are still in business. Cause a lot of wholesalers, they just quit. Um, it's been hard, right? It's, it's a lot of ups and downs, especially in the past three years. You know one month or best month ever was 11 deals was july 2021 or 2022 I'm, I don't even remember and august was one deal, right? And we are spending like 15k a month in marketing operations. We're like we have to shut down, you know It's when our friends In local friends, start firing people and letting people go, you know, the whole thing started happening. Um,
Mike:
39:36
don't remember. Yeah.
Rodrigo:
39:37
yes. Very scary, man. Very scary.
Mike:
39:41
Yeah. Yeah. Um. You know, I've noticed an interesting trend recently, too. And you mentioned, it's funny, I recognized it. I mean, it's what we've done and you've mentioned it too, which is a lot of people who were flipping before are wholesaling more, but I've also noticed that a lot of people who are wholesaling before now are now flipping more. Why do you think that is?
Rodrigo:
40:03
Yeah. It's big. Uh, okay. So for me, for example, right. My bread and butter was wholesaling. Right. Um, and it still is, but I look at the deal, right? I don't look at how can I wholesale this? I look how, what is the best. Exit strategy here, right? That's what changed If i'm sourcing the deal and I see 30k spread on a flip and it's an easy flip, right? A normal wholesaler doesn't want a 10k assignment. They go for 20 30k, right? So if they have their marketing channels and they are paying for the marketing and they cannot sell their deals for a good profit They are going to go under right? So they if they are smart Because most quit right most are not smart And they don't have relationships. They don't care about relationships. They just stab each other in the back. But if you're smart and you have the right relationships. You are sourcing your deal has money talk to your relationship say hey, can we do something here? Right or take it down, right? We have access to lenders. We have access to partners if I see that there is money Why would we not take this down or why would not partner with someone right? Because if I don't i'm not generating money, right? That's why I think a lot of smart wholesalers Uh, it started taking down their, uh, their, their properties, uh, now on the other side, a lot of buyers is start losing money or, you know, the, especially the ones that were volume and they start losing money or not making as much money. It's just easier to get a quick 20k because they have those relationships Right if i'm a big buyer in town, I probably know a lot of big buyers in town, right? And say hey, dude, do you want this one? You know, I have it If you can buy a hundred thousand it's yours, right? Um, and I know you can handle it, you know, so I know i'm not gonna mention names, but I know a big buyer in town He's he was buying everything. Now he's wholesaling everything. Um, you know, and one of the reasons is because, I mean, he lost money in a few deals and he also put all his money into a multimillion dollar personal home. So he is just more like. Let me get the quick money now because I understand the industry is a quick phone call 20k why not, you know, um, and in the meantime, man is It's like the low income middle, uh middle and high income earners, right like the middle class lower class The middle class is evaporating in in real estate in my opinion You know the middle of wholesaling was hard, but was not that hard You just need to plug in the numbers, plug in the people, connecting the dots. Uh, now is when the sharks are playing, you know? Um, so I feel like the middle class of wholesalers are, are going out of business or they have to adapt. The big ones are doing well and the rest are, are going out of business and struggling. Um, that's just my opinion. I might be wrong. That's what I see. Uh, most wholesalers that used to call me. They took jobs. They are not wholesaling more. Uh, yeah, one, one wholesaling that I think I closed like three deals with him three years ago. He works for Starbucks part time now. Uh, he's not wholesaling anymore. Uh, he's going back to school actually. Um, you know, so it's, it's not for everybody, right? It's, it's very emotional. It's a very emotional business. And if you cannot handle, man, You gotta leave and I like it leave Um, I love many make. Yeah, if the regulations come, yeah, bring it on, you know, like I love regulations I make it harder the harder it is Less competition more chances I have in my opinion because i'm sourcing it right i'm sourced No one is gonna tell me that I cannot door knock. No because I don't know I go drive for dollars I'm not scared right? No one is gonna tell me I cannot do ppc. I cannot do mailers So as long as i'm sourcing the deal when i'm controlling You know, the, the, the lead flow. Yeah. I don't care what happens to the market. Um, uh, yeah, that's the, I used to be very scared. I'm like, Oh my gosh, rates are 7%. I'm like, good. Let people get scared. Right. Uh, Oh man, I'm trying, I'm thinking about quitting it. It's getting harder. I'm like, well, quit. If that's what you want, quit. I'm not quitting. Um, you know, um, yeah,
Mike:
44:48
Yeah. What do you think differentiates right now the people who are going to make it over the next six months or a year versus the people who don't, who aren't going to?
Rodrigo:
45:02
dude, it's Finding deals is very hard. It's not easy, right? It's simple. It's simple Right, but it's not easy if your door knocks 600 distressed houses You most likely will get a deal, right? How many people will do that, right? Like I went to Jack's Rear, right? The Jacksonville Real Estate Networking event. And we were in an open mic event and I was talking, I was hearing a bunch of things and then I made a speech there. And I'm like, who here wants 17K assignment fee? Or is spreading a deal? And everybody raised their hand, right? I want 17K, no way! That's insane. Who here is willing to go to 32218 Highlands area with me and door knock 600 properties tomorrow? No one, no one, you know, but actually, okay. There was one girl that she couldn't go, but she became, she now became part of my team because she was door knocking without knowing what to say. And after that after her name is jasmine shout out to jasmine She is a beast. She was door knocking people Pre auction people without knowing what to say when she told me that i'm like we need to talk. Um And then she said I was in insurance and all that stuff and i'm and she's like can I pay you for coaching or whatever? Right. Um, and i'm like Well, my time is valuable. I will charge you this right because I'm not my time is valuable. Um, so I'm like, you know, I have a better proposal for you. Come join my team, right? I'm going to put you in my system. I'm going to because it looks like you're not scared of the phone. You're not scared of door knocking. You know, I'm looking for people like you. And at the end of the day, if you don't like it and you want to leave me, that's fine. But I see something in you. Um, and funny enough, she's been with us for a month. Uh, her first lead that we are working, we are actually going to negotiate right now. Uh, it's a commercial deal, which is funny. Her first deal is a commercial deal, right? Um, but now she's where she just left the property and appointment. Uh, she's probably going to lock it up. There is one that she's working on 32218. She's going to lock it up. She's going through probate. Uh, she does the job. So going back to your question is, What separates us the doers and the not doers, right? Uh, it's simple man send Send 10 000 letters to distress home wires. You're gonna make it but it costs money, right? Call 10 000 people that are distressed. You're gonna find leads, right? But it's cost some money door knock but it costs time right who is who is willing to do it, you know um Most people are not which is hilarious man because it's You know, like I literally, I literally asked people, do you want to go door knock 400, 600 properties with me? Oh, you know, that day, I think I have a doctor's appointment. Oh, that day I have this. I'm like, yeah, have a fun life. You know, um, last, last event, yellow bird events, there was a, I'm not gonna give you specifics because She's from a nationality that not many people are from so it's easy to find her But she sat down with me in the round tables and she's like I need to learn from you Right, and i'm no guru. I i'm still learning. I'm still new to this. Um, and she said well, can you come to my The HOA facility in my apartment complex and teach me for like a week or two Uh, you know and we we come together we make calls together and i'm like, let me ask you this How many offers you're making a day? And she's like, um, maybe one a week and i'm like what? You're calling people on the market. You're making one offer a week. How are you gonna succeed? You know and I told her you're gonna be six hours on the phone, right? If you want to deal as fast as you can possibly find on the phone on the market You need to be calling every damn agent on the on the city Oh, I don't have time for that. I'm like, I also don't have time for you, you know? Uh, and she, she got, she got both her, but you know, at least I don't want to lie to her. I'm like, you're not willing to do what it takes. Um, you know, so, but yeah, that's, that's it. Like, you know, you know him, like there are a lot of good people in town that go above him, like, uh, cash geeks, you know, Hayden Vance, Gonzalo, Ryan Rice, you know, those guys will always crush it. Well, always because Gonzalo always say nobody can outwork me. Right. Uh, he's like, he will do whatever it takes to find a deal. Right. And now he's coaching it. He's flipping. I don't know how many properties a month. Um, you know, so it's, it's just adapting fast, which I had a hard time in the beginning, you know, uh, you gotta adapt fast, man. It's, it's crazy. If you, if you take two extra months. It's gonna hurt your bank account, you know, you gotta that that that was super scary. Um, And willing to do it just willing to if if I have zero dollars today, I will door knock, you know We'll drive for dollars, you know, pecan area. The most cash buyers love 321 highlands It's always an easy sale if I get for the right price You know, gold or not, all, all the properties, you know, so, but people don't want to do it. People don't want to do it.
Mike:
50:36
it's funny you, it's funny you mentioned that because I had someone asked me, maybe it was a while ago, maybe it was two years ago at, uh, some event in town. I don't remember which one. And they're like, what should I do for marketing? And I was like, just pick a channel and like, should I do this? Should I do that? I'm like, just pick a channel. And do one. And I'm like, well, what should I say on the phone? I'm like, if I cold call Mike, here's my cold calling script. Call two hours a day, call like a hundred people a day, and then call me back in a week. And once you've done it, you can tell me what issues run until I'll tell you what to do next. And then never called me in a week. Right. Never made the calls. Right. Right. Right. Right. And. And then there were people, they were asking, um, how did you get your first deals? And I was like, I pulled the tax delinquent and pre foreclosure list and I texted them over and over and over again. And that was my first 20 deals. That was it. That was it. Like, Oh, and then I sat there on the phone with them and dealt with all the people cursing me out. And then I learned how to sell like better, but it.
Rodrigo:
51:40
Yeah.
Mike:
51:40
simple.
Rodrigo:
51:41
Every channel works, right? Some channels are going to be more expensive than others. Some channels are going to be more effective than others. Yeah. Whatever. Right. Yep. Yep. But it's just do something, just do something. Even if you just call agents all day, even though the agent, in my opinion, there is always a deal or two on MLS, but it's getting very hard because since the market's tough and nobody wants to spend money, everybody's, you know, playing beating wars on the market. And, uh, it's, you know, call every damn agent in Jacksonville, you're going to find a deal. Right, but can you download from mls 14 000 agents in jacksonville and call everybody? Do you have the guts to do that? I did it. That's how I learned. That's how that the franchise company made me do it, right? Um, that's what I did. I was I was looking on zillow for properties, but my core was outsourcing agents, right? Hey, do you have any off market coming up or that property that you cannot walk in your high heels because it's disgusting, right? Or that property that you're embarrassed enlisting. Do you have that property coming soon? I will take that out of your hands so you don't have to deal with that crap. You know, that was literally, you know, just showing confidence and say, hey, look, I'm local. I can be there today. I just need around this range. Is that possible? Can we, can you give me some inspection period? So I can send my, uh, my, my contractor there and You know, that's what I did for for for many months Um, but people still don't want to do it, you know, and it still works because I have a guy that sends me um deals from mls Um, and it still works. It's just it's usually like a very small clip. There's a lot of headaches You know, and sometimes no silencing offers no assignments. No You know, but there are, there are ways around it. You know, people are just scared.
Mike:
53:40
Yeah. What, um, what other big lessons did you learn over the years building this business?
Rodrigo:
53:54
I think like be yourself, like, you know, I, I knew from the beginning that I wasn't nobody, I knew nothing. Right. So I'm like, okay, I know nothing. I cannot fight too much here because I need to sell, improve myself. So I'm going to be as honest as I can. If I have to do small clips, I will take small clips, but I'll learn, build relationships, and if I do inspection of property and I see foundation, I will Disclose the foundation, right? If I see a big crack on the wall, disclose the crack in the wall. Because what is the point to make a 10, 000 clip and and then the buyer buys it Loses money and you lose a buyer forever and you lose all the buyers that he knows Right and you affect your reputation you lose or your friendship Be yourself be transparent and honest if you don't know say look I I I don't know what the ARV is, but based on this comps i'm thinking between 270 and 300. Um, Hey, I don't really know what rehab will be but it looks like it's going to be between 50 and 65 Uh because there's no perfect number, right? That's what a lot of people say. Oh, I need to give a perfect number Oh my gosh, i'm like look, I don't know what the perfect number is. It looks like a 50 to 65k rehab, right? Um, just so lessons is like be yourself. Don't try to be someone that you're not You Um, be honest and just do it with consistency, you know, um, you know, don't try to go around people because, you know, a lot of people, you know, they would, they will try to go around you, um, and you just say, you know, lose the money if someone goes behind you and wins. And move on, right? Don't don't do well. Don't complain. You just just move on and learn from it Uh, just do it man. If you do it, you're consistent and you're honest you're gonna find deals There is no way, there is no, there is thousands of distressed people out there. Our job is how can we find them, right? It's finding them and signing the contract. How can we do that? So it's volume. The more people you talk to, you know, the more chances you have. Or you go very niche, right? You go, I'm only going to call pre foreclosure or foreclosure 30 people a day. And that's it. You're going to find someone. Um, so those are the biggest lessons. And, um, you know, this country is awesome. Like these last three years have changed my life. You know, my dad worked for the same company in Brazil for 40 years, making minimum wage. And so I grew up with that mentality, go to college and, and get a job. And like this business has changed my mind, man. There's no going back there. You know, it's
Mike:
56:49
Yeah Yeah. Um, we're getting close to the end here and there's always two questions I like to ask at the end of the show. First is what is the craziest or most uncomfortable situation that you have ever experienced in a real estate deal?
Rodrigo:
57:10
So there are many right because when we go especially door knocking or inspecting properties you go through hell and back um You know, but like if I say, uh pitbull attacked me, right it has happened to Dozens of wholesalers out there. It's normal um Uh, thankfully he was in a he was tied on a chain and he just scratched my arm But it was scary, but I would say the funniest thing which was the craziest that I can remember Is I was walking a property, uh, and I was taking pictures, uh, you know, and it's, it's on the gear or the hood, the hood, you know, three to two, wait, I think three to two nine, the bad areas, uh, very ran down property supposed to be vacant. Right. Um, so I'm walking the property, taking pictures, doing my thing. And, um, And I heard like noise, but it was not too crazy. It was just nice. So I kept taking pictures and focusing on my pictures. And as I walk, I'm taking a picture and I look to my side and two squatters are having sex and I'm like, Oh no, but I was quiet. The guy saw me. I know he saw me, but I literally walk backwards. Um, I think they kept doing their thing. I don't know what happened there, but I'm like, I'm out. So then I called the agent and said, did you know there are squatters in your property? But that was the funniest thing because they, you can tell there were squatters. You saw the alcohol, the drugs on the floor. Um, I think that was the, it was like 10 seconds, right? It was like, I'm taking pictures. I'm like. Oh, crap. You know, yeah, you know, um, but yeah, so that I think that was the funniest thing I've seen. It was super quick. Um, but yeah,
Mike:
59:03
Yeah, that's funny. Um, so the second question I like to ask is, uh, if you could go, if you could go back in time and give yourself one piece of advice when you were looking for your first deal, knowing what you know now, what would you tell yourself?
Rodrigo:
59:22
Um, I don't regret having bought the franchise for a hundred K. But I would have done things different if I could go back, right? Uh, it would, I would lie if I, if I would say I wouldn't out, uh, because the, the learning curve, there are so many different ways you can do this and not pay 100k, right? Uh, knowing what we know, uh, it's, it's literally what I would do is go to network events, find, find the big sharks and sell yourself. And say look, I know nothing. I've been researching what you do and I'm willing to work for you for three months for free. Uh, if in three months you don't want me in your team, you'll kick me out and I'm forever grateful. That's exactly what I would do. It's exactly what I tell other wholesalers or other people that ask me. I want to say there is no questions asked that i'm saying like there are courses out there There are gurus out there that have good masterminds and courses, whatever they are not bad, right? I'm not against them Uh, there are courses like for ten thousand dollars, right? But you never talk to the guru. It's literally just learning, right? Um, you need someone that will push you to do the job Um, and all that will guide you and save you years of work, right? And they, in my opinion, there is no better way than say, Hey, you are a big shark in town. You did a flipper, a contractor, a wholesaler, whatever you want to do, right? Um, I'm willing to work for you for free. I have three months saved. my bills at home. Uh, tell me, I can get coffee for you. I can clean your butt after you poop in the toilet, but I need three months. I need three months with you. And in three months, you tell me if you want me or not. I'm serious. Like I would be very, very calm. Say, Hey, I want one chance. Give me one chance. Right and there is no way you're not gonna find a shark that don't want you. There's no way man. Um, you know, uh, Because sharks they don't have time, right? So all you can give them is your time But your time if you're not willing to do the work, they don't want you right because you're lazy You're gonna waste their time. That's why I got jasmine to our team because she was doing the hardest thing method to get a deal and she didn't even know what to say, right? I'm like, so you're blocking all the foreclosure properties and you don't even know what to say. You don't even know, you don't even have a script. I want to talk to you, right? Uh, you know, so that's exactly what I would say. I say, Hey, go shake hands with a shark. Tell the truth. Uh, Hey, I have done any deals. I don't even know what assignment is. I haven't flipped any properties. I only have done two deals and was a daisy chain. I'm willing to learn. I can go to hell and back. Just tell me what to do and give me three months. That's what I would say. And I would find someone absolutely hands down.
Mike:
1:02:26
It's a great piece of advice,
Rodrigo:
1:02:28
Yeah. Don't do my, my, my thing is don't do by yourself. Uh, I wouldn't try to do by myself because Even though you can do it, right, especially youtube university, right? You can learn a lot on youtube, right? But your your learning curve will be so much faster and the relationships You're gonna get from that shark, you know, it's it's it's so much but there's nothing that beats that that I know Um, but that's it
Mike:
1:02:56
Yeah, well, Rodrigo, if people want to reach out to you after the show, if they have questions, maybe they're looking for a shark or maybe they want to send you a deal. Maybe they want to send you a deal. How can they go about reaching out to you?
Rodrigo:
1:03:09
Yeah, so we are trying to do better on social media that's one thing we've been lacking You Um, I have a personal Instagram, but nothing related to real estate, but they can call me or they can email me at Rodrigo, R O D R I G O at rivertreehomes, R E I dot com. Um, you know, or they can get my number with you or it's 406 231 2416. I know the 406 area code is from Montana. Uh, it's weird, but that's I promise is my personal number. I went to college in Montana. Um, everybody asked me that by 406 What the heck like I know it's my personal i'm not lying um, but But yeah, that's it. Um, and if you need to reach out to me, you can reach out to mike as well We're pretty good friends. And um, but yeah, that's it.
Mike:
1:04:01
Cool. Awesome, man. Thanks for being on the show.
Rodrigo:
1:04:03
Thank you. Have a good one, brother
