Victor Jiracek is a seasoned fix and flipper with an impressive track record. Having successfully completed over 100 flips in his career, he's currently on pace to surpass 40 more this year📈. Tune in to learn from Victor's wealth of experience in the world of real estate investment and discover the secrets behind his flipping success
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All right, everyone. Welcome to the Real Estate Game Changers show. I'm your host, Mike McKay, based in the Jacksonville, Florida market. And each and every week we do this show with people who are changing the game of real estate all over the country. If there is anyone here who's getting into the Jacksonville market, or maybe a little newer, if you ever need help on anything, feel free to reach out to us. And if you have any deals to sell, we are still a very active buyer in the greater Jacksonville area. So this week I have a friend from Gainesville on the show. Victor, welcome to the show.
Viktor: 0:31Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.
Mike: 0:32Absolutely, man. So for people who don't know you, could you tell us a little bit about how you got into real estate and how that led you to where you are today?
Viktor: 0:41Yeah, for sure. So I'm primarily fixing flipper. So buy a house, fix it up, sell it. I've done about 100 total. I think I'm like 101, 102. I just broke the 100, which is great on track for 40 this year. My family actually did real estate. Mom and dad did real estate, but it was a lot less volume, as I do nowadays. They did one a year, one every couple of years. And when I was growing up, I realized I really want to do my own thing. I don't want to do real estate. I want to get into my own thing. And I tried my own thing, tried some other businesses, and then eventually came back to real estate. And I found out that I really enjoyed it. And this is what I've been doing since this. I got into 2018 full time. It's been, like, five years. And I really enjoy like change that kind of stick around what I'm doing and just keep doing those things. So that's pretty much how I got into it.
Mike: 1:24Cool. And did you start in flipping or did you start in another part of the business?
Viktor: 1:29I didn't have money when I started, so I figured, okay, let me do wholesale. You can get into it with minimal funds. So that's what I did. I started cold calling actually. And I had a mentor teach me and just basically started reaching out. And at first we were doing Miami and Miami was just a crazy market. So I had cold call. It's 8 a. m. And like they pick up like, Hey, do you want to sell your house? And they're like no, thanks. The fifth person who's called me today, it's 8 a. m. and I'm calling them. And so Miami didn't work out. It was way too competitive. They wanted too much. So then I switched to Gainesville, like a more secondary market, smaller market, and then it just took off. And then first two deals were wholesale deals. Like first one made three grand, second one made three and a half. And then I switched to flipping and I haven't gone back. I haven't done a wholesale deal since 2018. I just liked the flipping so much. I'd rather take down the deal myself and move on it than trying to wholesale something out.
Mike: 2:14Yeah, gotcha. So, do you still source your own deals? Even though you're not wholesaling, you source your own inventory or do you buy off a lot of other wholesalers?
Viktor: 2:24It's about half on my own and then half wholesalers. We still work with wholesalers. I think they're a great, source. Especially nowadays, like, when I started there was like one, one and a half, maybe, wholesalers in my area and now I feel like I got a call like every week or every other week There's probably 50 to 100 wholesalers in my area. I guess it's been very crowded So it's very nice to have people who find you deals who source deals for you So I'm you know, 100% open to wholesalers
Mike: 2:48Cool. And in terms of sourcing your own deals, how are you going about doing that currently?
Viktor: 2:53I've had a lot of luck with like SEO like set up a website and then people reach out to me there. That's been going good. Some like pay per lead services have been going good I think propertyleads.com is what it's called. That one's been going good like referrals because people know me let me, some realtors reach out. So that's been good. I do cold calling. It seems to work well. It's been going pretty decent, not my number one, but it's still bringing in deals and that's it. And then wholesalers, that's pretty much what's been working for me. And I have been trying PPC, like Google ads, like you run an ad. Someone says, I need to sell my house fast up. That's still I'm only a month and a half into it. So, I got to give it more time to see if it's worthwhile on that.
Mike: 3:28Sure, yeah, SEO is saying that we're actually working on ramping up at the moment. When you jumped into that what kind of steps did you take to, get ranked and start getting those inbound leads?
Viktor: 3:38I actually went through like a couple SEO agencies and nothing really happened, nothing really changed. So really what I did, like I try to improve the website just so it's not like every other carrot website, because you see a lot of that, like you search, sell my house, you click on five websites and they literally look all the same, like you just change the name, it's just literally the same I didn't do that so I got a custom website done, that wasn't too bad, I think it was like two grand, which isn't terrible and then what's been really helping, I think it's Google reviews, so I have 70 Google reviews, And, when you search sell my Gainesville house, I pop up my pictures there, I have all the reviews. So I show up like number one and then it really catches your eye. If I have 70 and the next person is like five, the next person has two reviews, I really stand out and I don't know about you, but I like, I read reviews before buying something. I read reviews before reaching out, stuff like that. So it's really important. I think that's really helped. Also it's just a smaller market. So I feel like it's easier to dominate. I guess I get less lead flow realistically, but it feels like it's easier to dominate versus like a Jacksonville or Oh, New York city or San Francisco, a lot of people throw a lot of money at it
Mike: 4:36Sure, how did you build up that many reviews? Obviously, you bought a lot of properties, but, I'll admit that we're guilty of forgetting to ask for their review after having any kind of strategy around it. So how did you go about building that up?
Viktor: 4:47Pretty much like anytime you interact with anyone you like and it's positive interaction You try to get a review So let's say we sell a house and there's a agent involved like they write us review most of the time If we work with the contractor consistently They write us a review. If we work with a wholesaler consistently, they write us a review. So like literally anyone you could think of, I've even had friends write a couple reviews. Nothing crazy, but, so like almost consistently. And then I have it on my calendar like once a week, try to get a review. And send it to a couple people and send them a link and do it that way. So you can always do like a review swap too. Hey, I'll write you one if you write me one. And people really like that too. Especially realtors because they thrive off reviews too. That's pretty much it. It just kept in the back of my mind. I keep doing it consistently and again, five minutes once a week is pretty good. I don't hit it every week, 52 weeks in a year and I get most of those. So like it starts to add up for sure.
Mike: 5:34Yeah, that's a good point. I've only really thought about having sellers do it, but I guess you interact with so many other people, contractors, wholesalers, agents.
Viktor: 5:42My title company wrote me one. Anyone you can think of, like literally anyone you interact with and like it's a good interaction, I might say, get them to write you a review.
Mike: 5:49Cool. So I guess like what what drove you to be more interested in the flipping side, versus wholesaling.
Viktor: 5:56For the second wholesale I did the first wholesale was a rental second one Was a flip and they're like they beat me up on price. Again, I made three and a half and they beat me up like every thousand dollars Every five hundred dollars was important to them. But then they did like they painted one room, they did new carpet in three rooms thirty or forty thousand and Me like oh, I was the one who found the deal it would have been even better if I listed it and I put it together that's when I started thinking let me just start doing these flips like I did the hard work of finding the deal Let me just do the last steps And let me just do that so that's pretty much how it shifted and then I also felt like the deals I had were good like I knew the numbers like I knew they were good so it's weird to me try to convince someone else to do the deal because I knew the number of the comps like everything was there like there was a good spread. And again, this is, the experience would be different now, because it's a hotter market for sure. Because back then it there was not a lot of buyers. There's almost no buyers in Gainesville. There was like a handful. So if they didn't want your deal, nobody wanted your deal, basically. Now it's different. I think it's, you throw anything that's half decent and, you get a lot of money thrown at you. So that's cool. So yeah it just made more money. Do I want to chase the three grand or do I want to chase the 30 grand? Same amount of work, very similar amount of work. You got to do renovations and stuff, but it's the deal, that's the hard part. That's, talk to anyone and you might agree, like the deal is the hard part.
Mike: 7:10it's interesting that you say that because a lot of people say the renovation is the hard part. so I'm curious you've built obviously a great system over the years that, 101 or so flips at this point. So I guess how have you. Like, how do you streamline that process? So that. That is the easy part.
Viktor: 7:26I think if you buy a right, you can mess everything up and still make money. It's if you buy right. And maybe you go over budget with your renovations, or maybe you sell it in the case of a flip that doesn't sell for as much as you want, but you bought it, you can still make a profit. Might not be as much as you want it, but you'll still make a profit. I think if you buy wrong, and you're still spot on for renovations, you're still spot on for for what you can sell it for, like you can lose money pretty easily. Just cause you bought too much. That's pretty much the logic. As you do more flips, you'll be more confident with the renovation process. The renovation process is more straightforward than people think. It's literally step by step. Okay, first, get all the junk out. And take all the junk out. Okay, now, demo all the stuff you need to demo. Okay, now put in the new stuff that you want. You should do drywall. Okay, do drywall. Okay, then do paint. And then do flooring. And then do it's like Legos. I like to think of house like components. It's like a Lego set. It's if you have one bad piece in a Lego set, like you take out that piece and put a new piece. So that's how I think about it. So I think a lot of people just overthink the renovation. don't overthink it. A lot of it's common. Oh this let's paint it type of thing.
Mike: 8:27Sure. And then I know there's all different kinds of strategies, right? In terms of contractors, some people like to go out and they like to hire a GC to handle the whole thing. Some people like to sub it out on their own. What's the strategy that you've found success with?
Viktor: 8:41I recommend for folks, like there's three different ways to do it. There's do it yourself, which is like you're the one doing the work. Like you do the painting, you do the flooring. You're the one out there doing the work. So that's do it yourself. There's done with you, which is like you're the project manager. Sure. And like you hire the sub, you hire the painter, hire the flooring guy then there's done for you, right? And done for you is like general contractor. Like you basically write them a check, just tell me when it's done and that's it. Like you do an A to Z. So how I think about it, I don't think there's a right or wrong answer. I think it's just depending on you and your needs and what you want. If you value time and you want to save money you're not afraid to spend money, excuse me. Then probably GC makes sense, right? Because your time is your own. If you value the money and you don't care about your time then do it yourself makes a lot of sense. Because you can save if you do the painting yourself, do the flooring, whatever yourself. So that's how I think about it. I think, whatever. Try to decide what's important to you. If you're working full time and you're trying to do this on the side, like I'd recommend like GC or something like that. What I've found that works for me is like we hire a project manager or I have two project managers and they help manage everything, they get the subcontractors in there and they, break it up like that. Typically with like GCs, cause you're paying them like a fee, it's 10% of whatever you spend, 15%, whatever. But that comes out of your bottom line, so that's what worked for me. We hired the painter. Okay, pay him. Okay, we hired the flooring person. Pay him. We hired the roofer. Pay him. Or her, whatever. And that's pretty much it. And then the project manager manages everything. I just check in once in a while. That's worked for me.
Mike: 10:06Cool, and how do you structure things like, with that project manager are they paid hourly, or they paid a kind of success fee at the end, or they incentivized in certain ways, or.
Viktor: 10:14I tried it at first like hourly, but then I found out like why, how much I think would take something to do is different from what they would do. Because that's the other thing, like if you respond to a text, like how much is that? Is that five minutes? If you're texting in five minutes or you call a contractor, do we count that five minutes? If it's 20 bucks an hour, then, how does that work exactly? So that it didn't really work. And then it was misaligned incentives as well. Like maybe they say, Oh, I work 20 hours and I'm like, Oh, I could have done it in 10 pretty easily, so it was misaligned incentives. They're incentivized to put as much time of it into as possible. So what I've been doing, it's just a flat fee, just 2000 1000 upfront, 1000 at the end, and that seems to be working. I also thought about the success fee like oh you get five percent or ten percent of the net profit but then I thought like sometimes You know, we're breakeven on a deal or we lose money on a deal and it's very rare. It's made one out of 10 times. It's pretty rare. It does happen. So it's like they did a great job and it's not their fault. It's out of their control. Like what we bought it for, right? And what we can sell it for. That's pretty much out of their control. They just control that middle part, that renovation. So that success fee didn't make sense to me either. So we've just been doing a flat fee and I think that's been working. Just the two grand and one K, then one K. And yeah, I think it's been good.
Mike: 11:24And I guess what are you looking for in the person who would hire to be a project manager?
Viktor: 11:30I think responsiveness is important. If a contractor calls, you got to be able to answer and handle it. I think the responsiveness is important. Can you get it for me? Hey, this needs to be taken care of. That's important. Attention to detail is also important, you don't want there to be like paint sections or oh, this floor is uneven or stuff like that. So attention to detail is important. That's pretty much, I think there's probably a couple other things, maybe probably team player, because a lot of this is with people. So, when to pull when to give a space, when to if someone says, Hey, I, the recontractor is Hey, I had a death in the family. I can't come in today to do the work and have to be tomorrow. You don't want to push at that point. Or you don't want the project manager to push at that point. Where, it just different, you just have like maybe person IQ, emotional intelligence, maybe.
Mike: 12:09And then are you looking for project managers that have construction experience, or is that not a requirement?
Viktor: 12:15No, not a requirement, you can teach the stuff. It's not like they have to go in there and do it themselves. They're not doing the drywall, so they don't have to have that experience. They just need to know okay, drywall costs this much, and this is what a good job should look like. And again a lot of it's comments, if the drywall was done well or not. Or if it was painted well or not. Just look at it. So it's construction experience wasn't necessary for my first project manager. She was good. I think she was brand new to pretty much everything. So I taught her from zero. And then the second one, she was a realtor first. She was a realtor previously. And then we did the project management and she was saying like, Hey she liked the project management because it's a lot less stressful because you can imagine with a real estate agent it's okay, I want to see this house. Like your buyer calls I want to see this house, drop everything. Let's meet there. And that happens. That happens all the time. So she was saying like, this is a lot less stressful. She has more control over her schedule. So I would recommend if you're looking for someone, like it is easier to train someone who has a background. If they're an inspector or an appraiser or a realtor or a project property manager, excuse me, these are good backgrounds because you don't have to teach them everything from zero,
Mike: 13:14Got it. And this kind of a part time side thing for them, or do you have enough projects going on where some of these people, this is their full time gig?
Viktor: 13:21I'd say it's full time for them how much time they put into is basically up to them. Because again, they're getting a flat fee. So if they can manage a project and it takes them an hour, like more power to them an hour full. If it takes them more time, it takes them more time. But I would say they're full time. It's not like one project manager I have, like this is all she does pretty much,
Mike: 13:36Gotcha. And you said they just need to know what stuff costs. Did you just put together like a pricing list over the years so they should understand what, everything costs in a house or how do you go about that?
Viktor: 13:47That's pretty much it. Yeah. So I have a pricing guy that's helpful. And then I think people catch on to the pricing pretty quickly. Like you do two, three houses with them or you do two, three examples. You figure out pretty quickly, what things cost.
Mike: 13:58Yeah. So I guess walk me through it. Say you buy a house. Do you even go there? You just send them over? I guess at what point does a project manager jump in and at what point is it, do they step out of the process?
Viktor: 14:07I would say as soon as we buy it, I pretty much hand it over to them and I'll check in once in a while and make sure everything's good, but that's about it. So as soon as we buy it, we hand it over to them and then we say, okay, do your thing. So one of the first things they do is like utilities. Get utilities in our name and make sure that's getting taken care of. Then we rekey the house, which is important, it's very un often, but maybe the previous owner tries to go back, or maybe they forgot something, or stuff like that happens all the time. We've had some break ins, and luckily no one was hurt, but it's happened before, where Someone gets into the house and you don't want that to happen. We had a quick side story here. There was an eviction house we got through a wholesaler. We bought it. There was an eviction, they were out by the time we bought it. They had a bunch of stuff in there. We cleared it. We fully renovated it. We staged it, staging is like putting temporary furniture in there. It looks better. So people like it more. We got under contract and then somewhere between getting under contract and closing it. The previous tenant broke in and slept in the bed. So they slept in the bed. They didn't do anything. They didn't steal anything. I think they like maybe ate some chips. That's about it. And that's it. And then it was just so random. I didn't hurt anything. They didn't break anything, but they just, I don't know how they got in, but they got in and, just slept in the bed and that's it. So we called the police and what was that? In the staging bed, yeah, in the fake bed. It's it's a real bed though, that you can sleep there, but it was just so random we got a call at night like, Hey, why is there someone sleeping in your house? We're like, what? We haven't closed it, we haven't sold the property and it's just staged and it's vacant. That was crazy. So that's why I say hey, you should rekey the property, just because you never know. And again if you do one flip in your lifetime or two flips these things aren't likely to happen. But it starts to happen, like, when you have a 1% chance of something happening, and you do 100 flips or 100 deals, whatever you're likely to run into this stuff. Just because of 1% chance of 100, it could occur, highly likely to occur at least once. So that's just so we always rekey it that just, like I said, they like demo it or they hire someone to demo it and remove all the stuff and then like drywall and then paint and then flooring and just like I continue. So I'm checking in once in a while. We do like a weekly meeting. Hey, where's everything at? What do you need help with? What, how's everything going and stuff like that? But they pretty much handle it A to Z. I they handle it.
Mike: 16:11Cool. And do you give them like a budget or like, how does that work?
Viktor: 16:14I do. Yeah. Either I like create a scope of work or they create a scope of work, which is like a budget and like what to do and how much everything costs. And yeah, they just go for it and if stuff goes over budget, we try to keep to the budget as much as possible, but there are sometimes surprises or there are unforeseen expenses. We just fix it. That's no big deal. I've seen like it's best not to cut corners because it always bites you in the butt later. Sometimes we try to cut corners and oh, they'll never know. And then it comes up on the inspection and we got to fix it. And now it's harder to fix because like maybe we have less access to it or there's something else going on or maybe it got worse and let's just fix it and make it right the first time. That's pretty much it on that side.
Mike: 16:48Yeah. And I guess for people who are thinking about getting into flipping is there any other things that you would say that they should keep in mind or watch out for on their first flip?
Viktor: 16:57I'd say for a person's first flip, they should try to keep it as simple as possible, a simple flip. Like you don't want fire damage. You don't want mold remediation. You don't want structural or foundational issues. I'd stay away from those. Those can be more complicated and more costly. There's a lot more variables there. So try to do something simple okay, paint, flooring, kitchen, roof. Okay. And it's done. Just like a simple flip is what I call it. None of those like crazy deals or, Oh, we have to add a bedroom and a bathroom and then we can flip it. That's more complicated. I've actually never added a bedroom and never added a bathroom. I try to keep it as simple as possible and that's how we can then do more because there's so much more management and so much more effort like adding bedrooms and bathrooms and then takes longer. It's like your money's tied up for longer. There's like a permitting process, like just everything takes, so I just like quick. I'd rather like a fast nickel than a, slow dime, as they say.
Mike: 17:43Yeah, got it. That's a good point. So what else is part of your buying criteria when you're looking for a property of flip?
Viktor: 17:49Honestly, the biggest thing is just the numbers. What can we buy it for? What can we put into it? What do we need to put into it? Like repairs. What can we sell it for? Yeah, that's pretty much it. It's all about the numbers. We buy houses, condos, townhomes, mobile homes. So like we're pretty open. Like a lot of the numbers work and it makes sense. That's pretty much it. We used to do 70% rule. Now we're doing more like 75% rule. We might break that a little bit, depending on the deal. Let's say we just have to clean it and list it we'll be a little more aggressive, but that's pretty much it. And then we buy within the lateral County. We just do deals here. That's pretty much the criteria. As long as the numbers there, if you sell me a property and there's a spread and it's doable, I say we do it.
Mike: 18:24Yeah. And then as far as the project managers and the subcontractors, is that something that you built up or do you expect them to build their own
Viktor: 18:32Probably both. I try to find referrals and send them people, they naturally meet people, because the thing is like contractors know other contractors So if you have a good electrician, they're likely like, oh You can probably get plumbers from them or you can probably get a roofer from them because a lot of them know each other a lot of them like within the same community. People know each other, so it's just a mix, whoever, and then if the contractors are going to, we use them as much as possible. We use almost for every property. So we're more of that kind of loyalty or reward that hard work, hard, quality, quantity, et cetera. And then again, we do a pretty good amount of volume. So a lot of people do really well for us. They stick with us and they can do pretty well, you do 40 flips a year and let's say we do 40 and let's say the profit for whatever work they do in a roof or flooring or whatever, they make a thousand bucks, that's 40 grand a year just off of one person which is good. It's great. That's good money. And maybe they have some other people or maybe they're, who knows? But
Mike: 19:21Nice. Okay. Cool. And, what else have you changed about your strategy since interest rates shifted about a little bit over a year ago at this point, or actually maybe almost a year and a half point. Yeah.
Viktor: 19:31It's been a long time. Yeah. We've been in this environment for too long. We've actually made a couple of changes. So one is we're sticking to more affordable houses. We did a couple like big houses for our area, like 600, 000 and like those didn't go too well, especially with the changing interest rates because the payment before was like, I don't know, 1500, 2000 a month and it switched up to three grand, four grand. So you had a lot less buyers, so we're sticking to more affordable housing and how you know that you can look up for your market, like Zillow home market value, you can look up the median price. And that should be your max, like your max ARV, give or take. There's some wiggle room there, but you want to stick to more affordable stuff. So for a gain, so I think it's 295 is like the median home price. Most houses sell for that price. So we try to stay below that and we may do 350 ARV or something like that, but I don't want to go too much about it. So that was the first thing like more affordable housing. Two is sticking to like trying to do as much cash deals as possible. So instead of get a hard money lender and then putting a down payment, it's more like I try to find a money partner. Where they put in the cash and then we split the profit 50 50. So I've been doing that a lot. And that's good because you have more space. Like if something goes wrong or if it sells for less you just have more space or there's less of a holding cost. So it's less of a rush. Like we need to sell this right now. Because you don't have a two grand holding over your head. So it's stuff like that. So that's the first one was the more affordable two is trying to do deals all cash. Because then you're like less pressure. What else have we done? I think that's pretty much it. Just being aware of your costs. As you do more deals, you'll realize what things cost and what to spend on stuff, if that makes sense. This is probably going to cost 2, 000 to paint it, or 3, 000 to paint it, whatever. Just being really accurate with our budget's really important. I think that's pretty much it. We've changed a couple things, but luckily with flipping it's a pretty straightforward business model. You're buying low, selling high. That's literally all you're doing. There's not much compulsory to it. If interest rates change and this changes or that changes, it's the simple piece of it, buy low, sell high pretty much.
Mike: 21:21yeah. And you were saying you buy about half your deals from wholesalers. How have you gone about building those relationships with those wholesalers?
Viktor: 21:30I have a lot of people reach out and then just like networking I think has been really helpful. Just like meeting people and talking to people. I think with wholesalers like just be easy to work with. Stick to a price. Don't try to beat them up on price. I typically don't care what their assignment fee is, and I guess that's pretty rare. That's not all buyers, all cash buyers. Sometimes if a cash buyer sees oh, they made 50 grand, the wholesale is going to make 50k. They're like, oh, I need to get a better price. And that's not necessarily like the case. That's not. How it should work like if they make a lot great if they make a thousand bucks Great, it shouldn't matter as long as your numbers work. So that was number three. Just be easy to work with and stick to your word Oh, and then probably make quick decisions Like if you walk a house try to give them an answer within 24 hours like hey I need to be at this price or hey, I need to do this versus hey Give me a week or two and i'll let you know Because the time is ticking like you can't have that much time and that's happened with cash buyers, too They're like, hey, give me some time and then a week later Hey, okay, I'm interested. It's no, that deal's gone. That's, we had to move it or we had to, speaking for like wholesalers that I've talked to. So that's pretty much it. And just trying to make it as easy as possible for them. Wholesalers make money when they're finding deals, like sourcing deals, like the disposition, I think most don't like that. If I had to guess that's just like a time consuming part. So if they can focus just on getting deals and they know, okay Victor's going to buy it or Mike's going to buy it. If it's a good deal, then they don't have to worry about dispo at all. They can focus on what matters, which is like getting deals.
Mike: 22:48Yeah. A hundred percent. Disposed probably our least favorite part of the process. At least I'll speak for ourselves, but I've got about 15 people who tend to buy and that's about it.
Viktor: 22:56Yeah, work with the best people. Yeah. I think the other thing is don't beat them up over like a thousand bucks or five hundred bucks. I think that's most, what you should do if your numbers are tight, relay that and just explain why you're doing it. But yeah, I don't just don't try to beat him up because I remember again when I was, it was me. And I had a three grand spread and they were trying to take that away from me. And they turn around and make 30,000. Who the hell is this? Why are they beating me up? Yeah, I think that's important. I had another one, but I think I forgot it. Oh, and I like to be transparent with my numbers. I say hey, I buy 70% rule. Hey, I buy 75% rule. This is what I got for ARV. And here are the comps. Boom boom. And these are why these are the best comps. Okay this is repairs. This is my scope of work. This is flooring. This is paint. This is kitchen. This is literally break it down for them. This is we need to repair the sidings. This is how much it is to repair the siding. So I can literally break it down for them and then use the formula and say Hey, based on this, based on ARV and based on repairs, we need to buy for this. That's why I'm coming at this price, versus an arbitrary black box of a lot of cash buyers are like, I'm going to pay one 80 for it. Why are you going to pay one 80 for it? Oh, just because I said so. Versus explaining just so they wholesalers can improve too. For like beginner wholesalers, cause they don't know what they're doing. They don't know what things cost. And that's fine. Like they're learning, so you just break it down for them. It's happened. Like I say Hey, these are my numbers. Can you make that work? And I know I can't make that work. They go back, we negotiate and then we get the deal, cause they can use my notes and they can use what I've shown them. They can go back to the seller and be like Hey, based on this, and this, we need a price reduction. And it's also happened where maybe I'm wrong. Like maybe I didn't see all the comps. And like the wholesaler shares their comps, they're sharing some of their information and then we can do the deal. And I'm like, Oh, actually I can sell it for a little bit more. And I believe it. And I, based on what you shared with me, so then I can do that price, so I think the biggest thing is it can be collaborative. It can be cooperative. It doesn't have to be competitive. Like, you're fighting against the wholesaler to get the best price. I would rather like work with them a little more on price and then maybe they get on me another deal if that makes sense. So I'd rather do one deal. I'd rather do two deals and make me 30 grand each than do one deal and make 35k just because I beat him up so much and he doesn't want to work with me anymore. I think a long term, as much as possible.
Mike: 24:59Yeah, no, that's a good point. You're sourcing about half your deals on your own half your deals through wholesalers. I guess how many flips are going at any given moment.
Viktor: 25:08I think now we got 13, 14, but they're in different stages. Like some of them are 100% done and listed. Some of them are 100% done, listed under contract. Some of them like we're starting. We're just gonna start someone like our middle of renovation. Some of them are about to be finished. So I like to think of it like juggling, as you're juggling you're not dealing with all the balls at once. Like you deal with the one that comes down, you throw it back up. Another one comes down, you throw it back up. So you might think Oh my God, 13 houses. That's a lot. Or maybe for you it isn't, but like it's like juggling. Like you're not dealing with all the house at the same time. Maybe one week the house is getting the painting down. So it's I don't have to do anything on the house this week. And then the next week is flooring that week I don't have to do anything, and then you can figure out the other houses in the meantime. But that's about we keep our inventory, let's say eight to 15. It just depends on, the volume and that's the other thing about flipping and doing deals. As you probably know, like some months are up and you do a ton of deals. Some months are a little bit slower and that's just the nature of the game this week. I'll do one and buy one. And then the next week I'll buy one. The next week I'll buy one. It's nothing. Okay, we're buying four houses this week, type of thing, it's very random. Yeah,
Mike: 26:12I know earlier you said changing your strategy a bit. You brought in kind of some I guess, almost equity partners in these deals. But concern in general, I know with flipping it's just cash management can be difficult, cause some of these projects you're looking anywhere from three to six months, till you get your money back. So with 13 going on, like, how are you handling your cash management strategy?
Viktor: 26:31I think the juggling analogy is good because yeah, you're buying properties and putting money into it, but you're also like selling properties at the same time. So it evens out is what I've seen. So you're putting money in, you're getting money out. And it takes time to get there. Our first year we did two flips and then went eight and then 20 and then 30 and now like it's going to be 40 plus. We didn't start here. That's my point, it's like the juggler. One comes in, one comes out. It can get tricky sometimes though. So I think that's good. We were talking about this earlier like having good content. I'd recommend that for people, even if you're doing your first flip, share it on social media. I bought my first flip. I'm excited. And then just share it every step of the way. Hey, we just did the painting, okay, this is how it looks. And this is how we did this. And you'll get a lot of interested people wanting to help you out because sometimes it's been needed. We're like, hey, I need a bridge loan for a month. And can someone help me out and I get the money within a couple and that's great versus trying to approach someone cold but if people see you and they warm up to you on social media Hey, this person's legit, they're doing this or they're doing that it just makes it easier to put together some money. But yeah, I think that was pretty much covered your question.
Mike: 27:30Yeah, and is that how you have found most of your kind of like equity partners who put money in the deal or private lenders is social media or do you have any other tactics?
Viktor: 27:39We have a local, like meetup for Gainesville. I know you have one in Jacks. And you have a lot in Jack's actually, but so just doing the meetups, social media, friends of friends, or one connection introduced you to another connection. I think that's good. And then again, if someone's good you can continue to do business with them. Like for the money partners, like I don't find a new equity partner for each property. I have two or three I work with and I send them everything, we'd have a good relationship.
Mike: 28:01And those equity partnerships with the property, you said you just, they put up all the money renovation and rehab, or I guess, how do you structure that? I've never done that on a flip. We've always just either used our own cash or borrowed private money.
Viktor: 28:12No, that's it. So they put in the money to buy it. They put in the money to renovate it and then at the end, obviously, whoever put in whatever gets reimbursed and then he split the profit and it can be 50-50,60-40, 70-30, I've seen all types of splits. But that's been working for me. I think the eventual goal, like farther off in the future, maybe like in a year or so, is like me doing 100% of my deals all on my own and doing it cash. We'll get there eventually. I think again, with flipping being cash intensive, if I went from five flips to eight flips to 10 flips a year, it would have been a lot easier for me to just do it all on my own. But me just growing so fast. It's been definitely harder. So I don't recommend that for everyone, but it's been good. We're doing good and making money on the flips. That's why it needs like so much cash. That's why I need to be a little more open to some of these partnerships or and again, I prefer this way.
Mike: 28:57Yeah, outside of the project managers that you have working with you, like what does your team look like
Viktor: 29:02that's it. Yeah. That's pretty much it.
Mike: 29:04just you and the project managers? Cool.
Viktor: 29:06Wholesalers will get deals. Then I help source deals. A lot of the leads are like inbound. If they fill out a form on the website, I get the information I call them. Yeah, that's pretty much in the subcontractors. Yes, they're a part of the team but it's more like as needed, if that makes sense. It's Hey, we got this project. Can you help me out? And they get it done. That's pretty much, I like to keep it lean. Especially like with what might happen in the market. I don't want to have too much payroll. I don't want to have too many people on the team and then like things go south or things take longer to sell. They don't sell for as much that I'm stuck with these things. So at least for now I want to keep it lean and keep it like per deal basis.
Mike: 29:37Yeah. And in terms of acquisitions, that's the type people fill out a form, call you. Are you always going out to the property or you try to do the virtual thing and get a contract on the phone?
Viktor: 29:47I do more of the in person realistically, but I qualify them on the phone. Hey, what does the property need? That's like a layer of motivation. If the property needs a lot of work, it's like a good amount of work. Because if property is in good shape, like, why don't they just list it? And sometimes they have good reasons for why they don't just want to list it. And that's valid. But that's one of the things I look for does it need work? Because that's when I can add value. That's when it makes sense for me to buy at a discount. Because if it's in good shape, like, why am I buying at a discount? I'm happy to, don't get me wrong, but... And then that leads into the second thing, which is like motivation. Why do they want to sell? Is it divorce? Is it moving? Is it foreclosure? Code violation, tax lien, like there's all these different layers of motivation, eviction, that's a good one. So I try to understand why they're selling. So again, it's in perfect shape and no motivation. I'm probably not going to make that appointment. I'm not probably not going to go out there because why like just list it and I can help them list it. But yeah, just doesn't make sense. But if it needs a lot of work and they have good motivation, then I go see it. So I try to qualify him. What's good with a lot of these lead sources I mentioned like it's low leads per deal if that makes sense So maybe it's five leads to a deal or ten leads to a deal So it's not like I have ten appointments a day. So I'm not super busy with that sort of stuff
Mike: 30:51Yeah, was that intentional when you pick those lead sources?
Viktor: 30:54That's just been what's working, like the cold calling is working, but it seems like it's more saturated nowadays So it's a little harder to get where you can still get deals, but it's a little harder so I'm just sticking to what works, and like the wholesalers, like typically I try to vet the deal beforehand, at least a little bit, at least briefly before trying to go see it. If the numbers don't like make zero sense I'll tell them, but I won't make the trip out.
Mike: 31:14And I guess as you've been growing the business over the years, from two flips a year, eight, all the way up to kind of 40, where you are now, I've got to imagine at some points along the way, there's been like, sticking points. There's always that kind of a sticking point at different stages of a business. It might be helpful for people listening. What were some of those sticking points for you? And what did you do to overcome those to get to the next level?
Viktor: 31:36Yeah, I think one of them was like from me managing it to getting a project manager, like that was a leap if that makes sense. Cause, when you're doing maybe like 10 a year, five to 10 a year, like you can manage that no problem. You call the people, you get it done. Once you get past that, it becomes harder and harder. Cause you got to call the people, go make sure they did a good job, pay them. And it just becomes a lot to handle. So I think that was probably like the first sticking point, like in terms of growth, just getting a project manager to help out. And at first we did try the GC route, but then they they were charging us so much. The GCU would get like an 8 grand fee or 10 grand fee, and that would cut into our profit. And they're welcome to make their money, but it's not I don't know if they necessarily deserve like the 8k or 10k. So they got like a painter in there, they got a flooring person in there, and that's pretty much it. It just took a lot, and they weren't necessarily pulling permits or anything like that. Yeah, so I think that was the first sticking point, and then... Being consistent with like the funding. I think that's a sticking point like obviously for your first deal You got to do that. But as you're growing you need more money that's why I mentioned like you want to build a good network and be active on social media, So when you need funds in terms of a money partner or equity partner or like a bridge loan or something I think that's really helpful because it has been some times where I have a lot of money in my bank at the first of the week and at the end of the week It's really low. I have 50 grand and I have a hundred dollars, so I need money, and I'm selling something next week for all the funds soon. So that happens sometimes. It used to more, but less, a lot less now, if ever now. Yes, that's pretty much it. I don't know if it was like a sticking point, like now in this moment, it's a problem. It was just like a problem you have to solve over time as you're growing, if you want to take it to the next level. And realistically with flips, like you can do three, four a year and make six figures. So it's not if you have 30K each, you do three, four a year, that's six figures. So you don't necessarily have to do volume. You can do a couple of years, still be really well off.
Mike: 33:17Yeah, what made you to decide to go to the volume approach?
Viktor: 33:22People kept sending me good deals and I'm like, yeah, let's do it. And and then slowly solve the problems over time. It's hard to turn down a good deal. It's Hey, do you want to make 30, 40 grand? I was like, Oh yeah, maybe, let's do it. so yeah, so that's pretty much it. And then I enjoy it too. I like doing volume. I like doing deals. I like to be as they say, like the orchestrator the conductor of the symphony rather than being playing an instrument, so I like to conduct things like, okay, we got this deal. Okay. Talk to the money partners. Are you in? Okay. Yes, you're in. Okay. Let's get it closed. Okay. Close. Let's get the project manager getting this taken care of. So I can really like orchestrating it. Okay, now it's listed. Okay. Let's get the realtors in there. So I really enjoy it. It's been naturally. I don't know where it's going to plateau or taper off I think that 30 to 40 is a good range because after that I heard there's like a death, they call it like a death zone, like 50 to 70 flips a year, just because you have to start hiring more people, just like I mentioned. And then you're making less per deal. And like the margins are tighter just because you have people to pay. So I've heard that I don't know if it's true, but that's what I've heard. I think the 30 to 40 is like perfect. 20 to 40 is good. I just keep busy that way. So that's the plan. That's the goal.
Mike: 34:22Yeah. Cool, man. And then I guess, any other learnings that you've had over the years that might be helpful to people who maybe they're doing, let's say the person doing five a year now, but they want to get to that 20 to 40, like anything that you can share outside of hiring a project manager that would help them get there to achieve that.
Viktor: 34:42try to figure out like what's holding them back. Is it the money? Is it the deals? Is it the contractors? Maybe it's just fear. What's specifically holding them back? What's their specific bottleneck and solve that. Because it's always money and deals are like number one and the rest is kind of details. So as long as you can take care of money in the deals, like the rest falls in place. Just like I was saying, if you buy for a good enough price, you mess up renovations, like you can still make a profit. That's that. So I would just try to figure out what's holding you back and solve that. And then also realize doing five a year, there's nothing wrong with that. Like you can do more. If you truly want to do more, go for it. If you don't want to, then there's nothing wrong with that. It's not like it's a holy golden land and everything's perfect once you start doing more volume. You typically just run into more problems when you solve more
Mike: 35:23Cool. And then I guess that kind of gain. So being, I don't want to call it a small town. It's not a small town anymore, but it's certainly had less homes than an area like Duval County. What unique challenges does that present if any? Or how is something done differently?
Viktor: 35:37I think there's some positives for sure. Cause I think in Jacksonville, I don't know what you guys pay, but I've heard it's 85 cents a dollar. You guys do 85% rule or something like that. Is that about right
Mike: 35:46Um, It's changed a little with the market. When the market was hot, people were happy to make 15 or 20 grand, but then that's on a house that sells for two 80. So that's really thin now. I think it's expanded because people were like cooling down a little, but yeah, it's certainly like hyper competitive in terms of pricing.
Viktor: 36:03So it's a little less competitive here because it's a smaller market. So that's good. It's also like less developed, I'd say, like it's a little harder to get contractors here. Like in Jacksonville, you basically have your pick and they're all well priced I'd say, just cause it's competitive, so they know not to be crazy with it. So that's probably a challenge, but like once you find good people, you just keep using them, like I mentioned, so I think that's a challenge.
Mike: 36:24Or advantages. I'd be interested to hear
Viktor: 36:26Yeah.
Mike: 36:26you find. Okay. Okay.
Viktor: 36:27It's really good because for my county, like everything is within an hour drive. So everything's close. So if I want to check in five or six properties, I could do that in a day. I can do that half a day. So that's really nice versus some people who are super spread out. Like you can only see one or two properties a day. So that's an advantage for sure. What's also good about Gainesville, as an advantage, it's more insulated. We have UF, University of Florida. We have some hospital systems like Shands and all these folks. So as you've seen, like your previous ups and downs, like other cities have bigger cycles and we're a little more like more in like the middle, there's less variation, there's less change. So that's a positive. There's a lot of like a unique demographic, like there's a lot of people here, they move here for school, they buy a house and then they move away and then they sell the house. There have been a lot of those people, they buy it, they live in it and they leave. So there's some of that like housing turnover, which is nice. So there's been that's a positive advantage, a disadvantage, just mentioned. And like we were talking about earlier if I want to pull a list for like absentee or something, like there's only 4,000, there's only 4,000 or 5,000, let's say you're not going to get ahold of all those people and not everyone wants to sell. So like the pool you're dealing with is a smaller pool. So that's like a disadvantage too. I talked to someone out of Jacksonville actually, and they had a good website. They do an SEO and they're like, we get 30 leads a month. Like good 30 leads a month on the website. I was like, whoa, I get two or three, maybe four good leads a month on my website. I'm near the top for everything. There's not a lot of room to grow. So just there's a smaller pool and smaller pond and being in a bigger pond for sure. That's what it is with games. I'm very happy though. Like we're probably going to saturate this market and maybe we'll open up to a different market, like Ocala. Maybe we'll just stay here. I just don't know what that like saturation point is. Maybe it's the 30, year. I don't know. Cause there's only so many houses here that sell unconventional that are motivated sellers that need work. That sell for a good price, and I'm probably not going to get in front of all of them. Realistically, I'll get in front of a portion of them, but, sometimes they sell to a friend or sell to a family member or they list it, so we'll see what the saturation is, but so far so good, I'm not complaining. I think. It's helped me get started. Just like I mentioned the Miami, like if I got Miami started in Miami, I don't know if I would have ever gotten a deal or like it would have taken a long time Versus here, I was able to get a lot of deals and get started. So it's pros and cons Just like everything. It's not so perfect
Mike: 38:41Yeah. And what is your vision for your business and call the next five years?
Viktor: 38:45I think consistently do those like 30 ish flips a year is number one I do the deals a hundred percent myself. So instead of splitting the profit I've been doing like doing the deals a hundred percent myself cash. That's pretty much it. That's honestly pretty much it. I've tried like rentals. That went okay, I did the burr, like buy, renovate, rent, refinance, but I did it just as interest rates were coming up. So, I was projecting it out. I'm like, I'm going to refinance out. I'm going to make 300 bucks a month cashflow. Hey, that's pretty good. I'm going to do it. And then I refinance as the rates were going up and then I was making like 80 bucks a month or a hundred bucks a month cash flow I was like, okay, this isn't worth it. So I sold all of them. I tried the rentals that didn't work out as well as I wanted Because like with the rental like if you have to replace like new AC like that's no cash flow for three years Like that sucks. That's not good at all. I tried the Airbnb that went pretty well, but then Airbnb bust happened So I was like, ah, I don't know that's I don't want to throw money into something. That's iffy I tried a lot of different things and figure like this, the flipping works best. It's the best ROI I'm in out. If the market shifts in a big way, then I'm fine. I can just sell everything and I could always just do the opposite. I can just do no deals for a year. Like I'm luckily that well off where just with all the deals I've been doing and what we've been making, I just like, Oh, I'll just not do deals this year. So, that's a good place to be in. If things really get that bad, which it probably won't, but I just like to have that. So yeah, just continue to do the flips. Honestly, that's been the best for me and most successful maybe expand. I know a lot of people have been getting into like land flips. I did my first one like last week we bought one. So we'll see how that goes, but maybe I'll expand to that cause that's pretty much the same thing, very similar, still expands my circle, but that's pretty much it. Just keep doing deals. Do that 30 ish a year, whatever start to do them on my own. So no longer splitting it because the same amount of work on my end and now I just double my income if I just do it on my own. That's the vision, honestly pretty simple, pretty unsexy as you would say. It's keep doing what I'm doing,
Mike: 40:30Sometimes that's what works, right? So
Viktor: 40:32exactly. Yeah, I've seen a lot of people make that. I don't know if it's a mistake, but it's just a different journey They take they're like they start to see some success in a venture and they're like, oh, let me do new construction Let me do a land deal. Let me do short term rental. They kind of plateau they were starting out really well, and then they go in too many directions. Oh, I want to do coaching now, or I want to do this and this, or I want to do subject two, I want to do creative. There's going to a thousand directions, they just plateau. Versus just stick to one thing and just keep growing.
Mike: 40:57Yeah, for sure, man. We're getting towards the end here. And I always do ask two questions at the end. First one's a little fun, which is what is the craziest or most uncomfortable situation that you have ever experience in a Real Estate deal
Viktor: 41:10so I mentioned the one with the the lady, like the eviction, and she broke back into sleep in the bed. That's one of them. That's not the top one, though. The, probably the top one is there was a property we bought, and it was basically like, it was a guy living in there. And he was about to lose the house to like tax delinquency. So we basically stopped the auction or whatever. We were able to purchase the house. But then he said hey, I have a lot of my own stuff in here. I've some tools in here. Just give me like 30 days to get everything out. And we're like, okay, that's fine. And that's the only time where you've ever signed like a post occupancy or signed a contract or something like that. Hey, be out by this time or there's this penalty, like that was the only time we didn't do it and that's when we needed the most. So basically, and I think like the crux of the story, like the guy, I think he was on drugs, like he was pretty much a crackhead. So it was just crazy dealing with him. So the third day is terminated like 60 days and like one time he got a moving van. He's Hey, I need some help moving this stuff. And at that point, like I just want him out. So I was like, Hey, you don't just get the moving van in front of the house. Let's do it. And basically, so we met there I walked to my car grabbed my wallet, but again, I think he was on drugs or something, so he thought it was, like, a gun, so he ran into the house locked the door, and started yelling don't come in here, don't come in here, don't bother me, and then I, that went on for 30 minutes, so I just left, so that happened, and then he eventually got out, which is good and, but the thing was, like, the house was here, and on the back of the house was his mom's house, that's where he was staying afterwards. So he sold the house and basically moved into his mom's, which is like 50, 50 feet away. And like he kept on bothering us, like even after we bought the house, like he kept on bothering us and bothering the contractors. One time a handyman was working inside and he was working inside doing his thing and the guy opened the front door and walked in startled him and had the contractor pulled a gun on him because obviously you're gonna do this by yourself and someone like goes up behind you, like that's scary. So I got a gun pulled on him just a lot of different things. I think we did not a restraining order, but we called the police on him and luckily he went to jail for 30 days. During our renovation periods, we're like, hurry up, just get it all done. Let's, we don't want to have to deal with them real quick. We listed it. Eventually we sold it. And I think from the new owner, like they never had any problems with him. Everything was okay. It was just something about us and like our team that he had a problem with. I don't know what, it's not like he was like malicious or trying to hurt us or anything, he was just being annoying. And I don't know. It was just being annoying and being paranoid was pretty much what it was. So yeah, so the new owner's happy and whatever, but that was pretty crazy. That was pretty crazy. I'm glad that one's over. So I'm glad that one's done and we moved on, but and that's probably the moral of the story. Like you got to sign like a post occupancy is what it's called or some sort of contract post closing. Hey, if you're not out, there's this penalty or, Hey, we keep these funds because you need them out. You need them out for a specific time. The other thing is a Peterson principle. So it's if you give someone a month to do something, they'll do it in a month. If you give someone a week to do something, they'll do it in a week. So that's the same with moving. So if you say, hey, you have two months to move out, it'll take them two months. If you say, hey, you have two weeks to move out, it'll take them two weeks. So just keep that in mind. So if someone like a seller says, oh, let's write down three months. It'll probably be a month. It's going to be three months. I'll bet money. It's going to be three months because they always take their time. That's fine. That's human nature, but just realize, what you're getting into
Mike: 44:09Yeah. That's a good piece of advice. Yep. Especially on the post documency Yeah
Viktor: 44:14because we do that. We buy houses like that. And that's like a good piece of flexibility on us as a cash buyer. Cause some people were just like, it has to be vacant. I don't care. I don't want to deal with your stuff. And typically for post documents, you want it as short as possible. So two weeks is better than, two months. So you want to do that. You want to have some sort of holdback. Even if it's five grand Hey, as soon as you're out, we'll release five grand to you and that's your money. So stuff like that. I think that's important. And again, have it written, like literally written out. We've done like a verbal agreement in the past or like via text and that's just not the same. It's best to, just get it written. The title company can write it for you. That's the thing. So
Mike: 44:46Yeah. It feels like a lot more serious when they sign something and when there's money at stake too.
Viktor: 44:50the money thing too, because especially for most people, like five grand is a lot. And yeah, even for me, it's a lot like, don't get me wrong. So I'll do what it takes. To get out on time and get the five grids.
Mike: 44:58Yeah, for sure. So 2nd question and the last question I always ask is if you could go back in time, give yourself 1 piece of advice when you were looking for that 1st deal, knowing what, now, what would you tell yourself?
Viktor: 45:10I'd say don't be afraid to start low, like start with a low offer. Cause you can always backpedal and be like that was just a starting offer. Where do we need to be? And they're like, hey, no, that's way too low. That's a low ball offer. You can always backpedal. It's so much, it's so much easier to start low and go higher than start high and go lower. So it's happened a couple of times. Actually, my first wholesale deal, basically what happened, I'm like, it was a cheaper property. Hey, I'm at 30 grand, but I'll buy the property for a grand. And I was like, there's this, no, like there's no way it's not going to happen. They're not going to accept it. And then her response was like, Ah, actually you're pretty close to what I was thinking. I was like, Oh shit, okay. And then, I think we bought it for 33 or 35 or something like that. Or 32. So we were close. And again, it was really low compared to what I was expecting. So you never know where someone's thinking. Nine times out of ten, They might say Hey, no, that's way too low. But that one time out of ten, they might be like, Actually, that's what I was thinking. So just lower than you're comfortable. If you're not uncomfortable giving the price you're not low enough, I think is the saying. So something like that. And again you can backpedal. Be like, hey, I just want to put a number out there, see what you're thinking. Where do you need to be to make this work? Because sometimes. Sellers tell you their price and that's great. Sometimes you got to pull out of them. Sometimes you're like, hey What do you want to sell it for? They're like, I don't know. What do you think you go for? And I'm not sure what do you want out of it? And you can go back and forth a couple times. You just don't get a number. So you still try something low.
Mike: 46:25yeah, good piece of advice sometimes the number starts the conversation
Viktor: 46:28Yes Oh, that's a good way Yeah And then you know if they're serious or not or you know based on their reaction and stuff like that. So yeah just gets the number, gets it going because everything before that can be great. They'd be like, yeah, I want to sell and I'm really interested. I'm really motivated. I want to sell it now. And then again, give a number. Then you find out they want more than retail, that's happened before too.
Mike: 46:45Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Cool, man. If people want to reach out to you whether they have questions or maybe they got some wholesale deals around Alachua County, Gainesville, how can they go about doing that?
Viktor: 46:55I think the best way to reach me is on Facebook. So just look up my name, Victor Jiracek, V I K T O R. Luckily my name is unique, so you'll find me no problem. So yeah, just look for me and just reach out, shoot me a message. If you have deals, great. If you have any questions, great too. Happy to help. No worries. And yeah, appreciate it. Thanks for having me on. It's been good and cool to share and chat and, it's really interesting. We're basically next door neighbors, like me being in Gainesville versus you being in Jacksonville. We're literally an hour and a half away. So it's really cool to see like what's different, what's similar.
Mike: 47:20Yeah, for sure, man. This was awesome. Thanks for being on the show.
Viktor: 47:23Absolutely. Appreciate it.
