Announcer:
0:00
Welcome to the MedEvidence Monday Minute Radio Show hosted by Kevin Gettings of WSOS St Augustine Radio and powered by Encore Research Group. Each Monday morning, dr Michael Koren calls in to bring you the latest medical updates with insightful discussions. Medevidence is where we help you navigate the real truth behind medical research, with both a clinical and research perspective. So sit back, relax and get ready to learn about the truth behind the data in medicine and healthcare. This is MedEvidence.
Kevin Geddings:
0:30
And we're joined live on the studio line by Dr. Michael Koren, medical doctor, cardiologist, research scientist, of course, and we appreciate Dr. Koren always being available to talk with us, and you can always connect with him too by going to the website EncoreDocs. com. That's EncoreDocs. com. We're going to talk about another website that he's very involved with too, but we'll get to that in just a moment. Dr. Koren, good morning.
Dr. Michael Koren:
0:54
Good morning Kevin. How are you?
Kevin Geddings:
0:55
Well, I'm doing well, doing well. So some interesting experiences that you've had. Actually, you know closely with DOGE effort with Elon Musk and the effort to trim federal government spending right. Apparently it crosses into even, you know, potentially COVID oral vaccines right.
Dr. Michael Koren:
1:12
Yeah, yeah, you and I had a conversation on Monday when I got back from Saudi Arabia and shortly after our last discussion I learned that a study that had been put on hold because of DOGE has started up. In fact, it started up while I was away and I think it's actually super interesting for the listeners to know about it. So obviously, our organization has done a lot of work with the COVID vaccines. We were very involved with the Moderna trials and the Pfizer trials and the Novavax trials. The Moderna and Pfizer trials involved the messenger RNA vaccine and the Novavax is a different type of vaccine. So we've done both messenger RNA and non-messenger RNA vaccines. So we've been in this space and, as of last year, we were scheduled to work with a company on an oral COVID vaccine that does not use a messenger RNA technology. So we were excited about that, because some people are concerned about the messenger RNA technology, although personally I don't have any concerns about it, but it's out there and we respect people's opinion. So we were ready to get going with this program.
Dr. Michael Koren:
2:18
And then, shortly after the Trump administration got in and DOGE started, we were told that the study was put on hold indefinitely because the Department of Defense was a major funder of the study and all those type of initiatives would be put on indefinite hold. So of course we weren't able to do much about that and just accepted that and figured that we would not be doing this study and that would be a priority. But lo and behold, last week we were given the green light to start the study, and one can only imagine that when this was looked at in terms of the priorities of the government, they felt that this was a super important study to fund, and I guess Elon Musk I don't know this for sure, but he probably had some review of this at some level, either directly or indirectly, and decided that this should be a priority and something that the government should be funding, because people are certainly looking for alternatives to help protect them against COVID.
Dr. Michael Koren:
3:24
So, we're super excited about it and we're glad that, even with DOGE and a very critical review, that the priority of this work was considered very high.
Kevin Geddings:
3:33
Wow, that's interesting. Is it possible for folks listening to still participate in that study?
Dr. Michael Koren:
3:39
It is. It is, in fact, right now it's just enrolling in Jacksonville, but over time it'll be in other places. But you can get going with it. Right now it's just enrolling in Jacksonville, but over time it'll be in other places. But you can get going with right now, especially if you don't mind coming to our center on University Boulevard in Jacksonville. We are enrolling as we speak and we've already had quite a few patients sign up for it and get involved with it, and it's a very simple program that basically involves an oral vaccine to protect you against COVID. And while you know we're still in the springtime, going into the summer, we In Florida things are a little bit different than other parts of the country, so traditionally the cold and flu season occurs in the winter months, but in Florida, because of the heat of the summer, people spend more time indoors during the summer, which paradoxically means that we sometimes get more cold and flu cases during the summer months.
Dr. Michael Koren:
4:31
It's actually very typically a spike in viral illnesses in Florida during the summer months because we spend more time inside. So it's a really good time actually to get involved in the study and to learn about what we're doing. Obviously, there's no charge for anybody and in fact, there's a small stipend for people who participate, because we do value your time and effort.
Kevin Geddings:
4:50
If you're just hopping in your vehicle or tuning us on, that's Dr. Michael Koren, of course, with ENCORE Research Group, and we're talking about the study dealing with an oral vaccine for COVID. Why is it that we I know we have an oral vaccine for polio, but we don't have an oral vaccine for some of the other issues that we have out there, things like pneumonia, for example? Why is it that we have it for some but not for other disease conditions?
Dr. Michael Koren:
5:15
Well, any vaccine has to expose the human body to the pathogen that you want protection for, and the truth is that a lot of things that you take orally don't elicit enough of an immune response to be protective.
Dr. Michael Koren:
5:32
So, over the years, there have been other delivery mechanisms for vaccines. It could be nasal, it could be protective. So, over the years, there have been other delivery mechanisms for vaccines. It could be nasal, it could be oral, but we find, by and large, that injections are what actually gets your immune system to a point where it'll protect you against those particular pathogens. Having said that, there are always efforts to try to do better and better with different types of vaccines and different routes and, as you point out, polio is an example of a viral illness that we can protect people with with an oral vaccine, and we think COVID could be a similar disease that we protect people from with an oral vaccine. So that's what we're doing now and it's a super good question, but I think as we learn more and more about how the immune system works, we'll have more and more opportunities to actually help people get protection from these diseases with an oral agent.
Kevin Geddings:
6:26
That's Dr. Michael Koren, once again with us. Live on the studio line. If you have any interest in participating in this study regarding an oral vaccine for COVID, go to EncoreDocs. com. That's EncoreDocs. com. That's spelled with an E EncoreDocs. com. I have to ask you, just because it was such a news headline over the last couple of days the Trump administration's efforts to limit pharmaceutical pricing. Any thoughts on that, Dr. Koren?
Dr. Michael Koren:
6:52
Yeah, it's a really interesting problem. It's actually a problem that I've touched on with some of my professional organizations, and the truth is is that we pay more for pharmaceuticals in the US than any place on the planet, for a number of reasons because, of course, in the US market and we tend to get things before other markets but there's always been this sense. Is that fair? Is it fair that we pay so much more? Is it fair that the US consumer is paying the price for all the innovation that, ultimately, the rest of the world benefits from? And so the point is a very, very reasonable point from the Trump administration.
Dr. Michael Koren:
7:33
Now how you get to a fair solution gets pretty, pretty complicated.
Dr. Michael Koren:
7:39
Of course, the flip side is that, because of the fact that the US market is so dominant in terms of drug development, we get a lot of benefits.
Dr. Michael Koren:
7:48
We get a lot of benefits in terms of jobs and organizations like ours, where people make a living from doing this research, and we certainly don't want that to go away.
Dr. Michael Koren:
7:58
That's one of the elements.
Dr. Michael Koren:
7:59
Two is that, because of the premium that the drug companies get, they invest a lot of money on innovation. So literally some of the things that we talk about, whether it's messenger RNA or monoclonal antibodies or some of these just incredible things that we've learned over the last 30 years, is in large part, driven by the ultimate profit objective of these companies. So you know, they are businesses, they are looking for profit at the end of the day, but the consumers really, really benefit by virtue of the fact that this innovation is mind-boggling in many cases, and things that were not even conceivable to cure were able to cure nowadays. But getting back to the point of fairness, I think that's a legitimate discussion. So how do we come up with a system where we still have the innovation premium, which is what I like to call it, but share the cost of the innovation premium with other people around the world who right now, are kind of getting a little bit of a free ride based on the fact that the US consumer is picking up a big part of the tab?
Kevin Geddings:
9:06
Well, it's interesting to see how it plays out. I know there's like a 30-day period where I guess pharmaceutical companies can try to respond. So we'll keep up with that and we'll continue to ask Dr Koren for his thoughts and advice. Speaking of Dr Koren, before we let him go too, we want to make sure you're aware of medevidence. com. Medevidence. com so often we want to just go on the Google machine and type in why do I have this rash? You probably won't get the most accurate or good best information, but if you go to medevidencecom you can trust that information, right, Dr. Koren?
Dr. Michael Koren:
9:36
Yeah, absolutely, and it's a good point. When you Google something or AI, it now, I guess, is a big thing. Typically, you're going to get information that's geared towards somebody that's trying to sell you something, and in MedEvidence we don't have any of those issues. We basically let people know the facts, which is in any question or any medical problem. There's things that we know for sure, the stuff that we really don't know, and then there's a process to learn about the stuff that you don't know, and we help people understand that approach to all medical problems. So, to your point, whatever the medical concern may be, please take a look at our podcast, look at our discussion. One of the ways to learn about an issue is to see two knowledgeable physicians talk about it and you will glean insights that I think you'll find valuable for yourself and your family.
Kevin Geddings:
10:23
Yeah, people are really enjoying that website. It's very intuitive, easy to use and lots of good information available in a variety of platforms. So go to MedEvidence. com. That's MedEvidence. com, Dr. Koren. Thanks for all the good information today. We hope you have a good Wednesday, All right?
Dr. Michael Koren:
10:40
Appreciate it Always a pleasure, Kevin.
Announcer:
10:41
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