Episode 356 – The ROI of Microsoft 365 Copilot

October 19, 2023

Episode Transcript

In Episode 356, Ben and Scott revisit the ROI of Microsoft 365 Copilot, discuss some methods for bulk restores from the SharePoint Online Recycle bin, and some upcoming changes to default outbound internet access for your Azure VMs.

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1 00:00:03,220 --> 00:00:08,070 Welcome to episode 356 of the Microsoft Cloud IT Pro podcast 2 00:00:08,630 --> 00:00:11,310 recorded live on October 6th, 2023. 3 00:00:11,700 --> 00:00:16,270 This is a show about Microsoft 365 and Azure from the perspective of it pros and 4 00:00:16,270 --> 00:00:20,550 end users where we discuss the topic or recent news and how it relates to you 5 00:00:20,990 --> 00:00:23,110 co-pilot and ai just don't go away. 6 00:00:23,450 --> 00:00:28,150 We are back this week revisiting some of the r o I of this service as well as 7 00:00:28,150 --> 00:00:32,910 some updates around licensing with the upcoming GA of Microsoft 365 8 00:00:32,910 --> 00:00:35,430 co-pilot and November 1st, 2023. 9 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:40,710 After that we discussed some methods and challenges for bulk restores of items 10 00:00:40,780 --> 00:00:42,430 from the SharePoint recycle bin, 11 00:00:42,610 --> 00:00:47,350 as well as some upcoming changes to default outbound internet access for your 12 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:48,390 Azure VMs. 13 00:00:50,630 --> 00:00:53,270 I need a co-pilot to help handle my calls. You. 14 00:00:53,270 --> 00:00:55,910 Need a co-pilot handle your calls, huh? 15 00:00:56,140 --> 00:01:00,790 Co-pilots for everybody because they're coming prepare th self. It's just money. 16 00:01:00,970 --> 00:01:04,870 So you say co-pilot for everyone. This is public enough. 17 00:01:05,060 --> 00:01:09,510 There's public blog posts out here. Co-pilot is not for everyone. Scott . 18 00:01:09,710 --> 00:01:11,550 I am disappointed by this. I mean we've talked. 19 00:01:11,550 --> 00:01:16,390 About the pricing in the past, so, so yeah, there's barriers to entry. We. 20 00:01:16,390 --> 00:01:18,670 Talked about the pricing but there's some new stuff. 21 00:01:19,130 --> 00:01:23,670 So copilot for everyone was $30 a user a month? 22 00:01:24,020 --> 00:01:27,110 It's expensive, I get it. I was willing. It is. 23 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:32,150 54% The cost of your E three license if you want to 24 00:01:32,150 --> 00:01:32,940 think about it that way. 25 00:01:32,940 --> 00:01:36,830 Like it is literally more than the cost of your E three license to go and pick 26 00:01:36,830 --> 00:01:37,410 up co-pilot. 27 00:01:37,410 --> 00:01:38,670 But I was willing to pay for it. 28 00:01:38,870 --> 00:01:42,550 I absolutely would've paid 30 bucks a month for co-pilot at least to start to 29 00:01:42,550 --> 00:01:43,290 check it out. 30 00:01:43,290 --> 00:01:48,190 But then some news started coming out is it's gonna GA on November one and I got 31 00:01:48,190 --> 00:01:53,110 all excited and then I started looking at more news about it and it is gonna 32 00:01:53,110 --> 00:01:57,790 GA on November one and you can go get it if you have an enterprise agreement and 33 00:01:57,790 --> 00:02:02,150 you can get your Microsoft person to go set you up with it, 34 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:03,630 which I don't have. 35 00:02:04,130 --> 00:02:08,670 And if you're willing to spend purchase a minimum of 300 36 00:02:09,070 --> 00:02:10,110 licenses. Yeah, I was. 37 00:02:10,110 --> 00:02:13,630 Gonna say 300 licenses or 300 seats licenses, 38 00:02:13,740 --> 00:02:18,310 therefore bringing you to what a cool, not nine K a month just to get started. 39 00:02:18,620 --> 00:02:19,950 Nine K a month. 40 00:02:20,290 --> 00:02:22,470 Not for your little SMBs. 41 00:02:22,810 --> 00:02:27,470 96, no, what is my math is failing me nine times 1200, 42 00:02:27,740 --> 00:02:32,350 4,000. No, 90 108. 108. Yeah. 108. 43 00:02:32,550 --> 00:02:35,550 $108,000 a year for copilot, which. 44 00:02:35,830 --> 00:02:38,950 Remember that's basically double the cost of what you had before. So . 45 00:02:39,660 --> 00:02:41,790 That is not double the cost of what I had before. 46 00:02:41,850 --> 00:02:44,190 But for those organizations that are coming in, that. 47 00:02:44,190 --> 00:02:47,390 Is like for those organizations, yes, but. 48 00:02:47,620 --> 00:02:48,453 It's another one. 49 00:02:48,790 --> 00:02:53,110 I don't have any like skin in the game insight here but like from the outside 50 00:02:53,850 --> 00:02:56,790 is um, it's tough. It's a lot to swallow. 51 00:02:56,970 --> 00:03:01,760 You've gotta do a lot of R o I justification and I just wonder 52 00:03:02,140 --> 00:03:03,960 if people are like poking the bear, 53 00:03:04,780 --> 00:03:09,120 poking at the market and seeing what it will maintain from a pricing perspective 54 00:03:09,950 --> 00:03:12,040 just to get it there. But you, 55 00:03:12,060 --> 00:03:16,880 you won't know and I don't think M 365 or O 365 56 00:03:16,990 --> 00:03:21,360 like even break down the numbers this way in financial reports or anything like 57 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:23,520 that. What ARPU ends up uh, 58 00:03:23,630 --> 00:03:28,320 like revenue per user and margin ends up being like per user within those 59 00:03:29,030 --> 00:03:30,880 product segments. But yeah, 60 00:03:31,420 --> 00:03:34,920 now that's funny 'cause somebody in the chat is saying they're TAM assures it 61 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:37,320 will save us money. There are no more tams. 62 00:03:37,660 --> 00:03:41,000 So if somebody's still calling themself a tam a they've gotta get their heads 63 00:03:41,060 --> 00:03:43,480 out of the sand 'cause they haven't been a TAM for two years . 64 00:03:43,940 --> 00:03:46,480 But that's neither here nor there. Yeah, 65 00:03:46,540 --> 00:03:49,120 it is a weird barrier to entry too in that like you said, 66 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:53,680 you have to basically be nominated in by a 67 00:03:54,300 --> 00:03:57,880 member of your account team and at Microsoft I, 68 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:02,480 I don't know like I I imagine there's a whole gamut of folks who listen to this 69 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:06,360 podcast and they're the enterprisey of the enterprisey and they've heard terms 70 00:04:06,430 --> 00:04:10,840 like TAM and CS a and they know who like their account executive is, 71 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,520 they're ae like they've got all that stuff down or they, 72 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,080 they we've got an at SS and and all that stuff running around and they live in 73 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:21,600 the acronym soup of Microsoft. The majority, the vast majority, 74 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:26,000 especially like those 300 seat organizations that would potentially be eligible, 75 00:04:26,510 --> 00:04:29,480 they don't usually have managed account teams. 76 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:30,640 They're not big enough to get there. 77 00:04:30,940 --> 00:04:33,520 It doesn't justify it from like a sales cycle kind of thing. 78 00:04:33,820 --> 00:04:38,080 If you've just come in and picked up a hundred licenses, 150, 300 licenses, 79 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:42,880 like you're still in the threshold of SS M B versus organizations that are in 80 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:48,120 multiple thousands could be like single digit thousands all the way up to a 81 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:49,360 hundred thousand plus seats. 82 00:04:49,510 --> 00:04:53,120 Yeah, I was gonna say Microsoft puts that just from a licensing perspective. 83 00:04:53,150 --> 00:04:57,480 They kind of put that S M B level at 300 'cause that's where you move out of the 84 00:04:57,640 --> 00:04:59,640 business into enterprise. But I'm with you. 85 00:04:59,920 --> 00:05:03,400 I weren't like some of my customers that are in those 86 00:05:03,610 --> 00:05:06,600 300 5400 employees. 87 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:11,800 I don't know that they necessarily have EAs or TAMS or 88 00:05:12,270 --> 00:05:17,200 account teams or all the different acronyms because at that 89 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,840 level they're still just going out and buying enterprises or going through A C S 90 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:21,713 P or some of that. 91 00:05:21,740 --> 00:05:22,720 100%. So yeah, 92 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:27,160 they effectively become unmanaged accounts which is fine in the grand scheme of 93 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,720 things and it actually, I think for some of this like that's actually okay, 94 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:34,840 I kind of want to see what happens when some of the biggest of the big kicks the 95 00:05:34,840 --> 00:05:37,160 tires and how that looks for them. 96 00:05:37,540 --> 00:05:41,200 And for the articles that are out there today about ways to think about 97 00:05:41,410 --> 00:05:46,240 justifying your R O I and your T C O with something 98 00:05:46,310 --> 00:05:48,000 like M 365 copilot. 99 00:05:48,230 --> 00:05:52,920 There's a lot of broad assumptions there because nobody has 100 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:56,000 really been hands-on with it I think in the way that they're about to get 101 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:56,833 hands-on with it. 102 00:05:57,380 --> 00:06:01,720 And that's gonna lead to a whole bunch of interesting 103 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:04,960 observations and conclusions potentially six months from now. 104 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:09,720 Like I would love to see the industry reports that come out of like Gartner and 105 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,680 I D C and others after this has been out for a couple months, 106 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:13,920 people have been hands-on with it. 107 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:18,880 They've had a chance to effectively kick the tires and see what it 108 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:19,760 can do for them. Okay. 109 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:21,160 So this makes me laugh Scott. 110 00:06:21,460 --> 00:06:25,640 We just talked about the 300 LI license level and the whole SS M B thing. 111 00:06:26,140 --> 00:06:29,960 If you scroll down in that article from Schneider, 112 00:06:30,900 --> 00:06:33,200 IM that you post in Discord, we'll put it in the show notes. 113 00:06:33,670 --> 00:06:36,080 It's not every license is eligible for copilot. 114 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:40,520 Microsoft 365 copilot is an add-on license. It works on top of the following. 115 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,320 Microsoft 365 E five, Microsoft 365 E three, we knew both of those. 116 00:06:44,840 --> 00:06:48,160 Microsoft 365 business premium and Microsoft 365 business standard. 117 00:06:48,860 --> 00:06:51,320 Except that if you have business premium or business standard, 118 00:06:51,780 --> 00:06:55,720 the only way you're gonna be eligible is if you have exactly 300 licenses 119 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:59,560 because yes, it doesn't allow you to have more and less and I get it, 120 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:03,040 some people have missed and matched, right? You could have 300 premium, 121 00:07:03,370 --> 00:07:07,760 300 standard for your 600 users or have a few enterprise mixed in with your 122 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:09,273 business premium. 123 00:07:09,380 --> 00:07:13,960 But it kind of makes me chuckled that 300 is the threshold and you can put it on 124 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:14,793 these business plans. 125 00:07:14,900 --> 00:07:19,560 But most people that are at that level aren't on business plans because 126 00:07:19,910 --> 00:07:22,120 they get capped at 300. We'll see. 127 00:07:22,270 --> 00:07:25,600 Obviously there's insights from like the licensing site that, 128 00:07:26,060 --> 00:07:30,440 or the licensing side that only the folks who run the service are privy to 129 00:07:31,020 --> 00:07:35,120 and they know their house, their business and where they wanna be with it. Yeah, 130 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:36,153 I don't know. 131 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:41,200 I still haven't had a chance to get broadly hands-on with it. 132 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:44,320 Like I'm very much looking forward to seeing that rollout. 133 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,200 I don't know how that'll go even at Microsoft, 134 00:07:47,310 --> 00:07:51,240 like as Microsoft employee do I get access to that? Well I get GitHub copilot, 135 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:53,160 I have that. I get Bing enterprise chat. Yep. 136 00:07:53,260 --> 00:07:56,400 All those kinds of things are available to me today. 137 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:01,680 I think one of the other things too is I wonder how many organizations sit down 138 00:08:01,700 --> 00:08:02,840 and look at, 139 00:08:03,590 --> 00:08:08,480 they look at maybe the raw cost of just a chat G 140 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:10,200 P T and going straight to open ai. 141 00:08:10,310 --> 00:08:15,280 Like why wouldn't you give open AI 20 bucks a month to depending 142 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:16,960 on the functionality that you need, right? 143 00:08:16,990 --> 00:08:21,960 Falling need is L L M without context. Like okay, 144 00:08:22,020 --> 00:08:25,280 go ahead and save yourself 10 bucks a month and go over here and get this tool. 145 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:30,600 I know a lot of conversations that I'm hearing are folks saying that part of the 146 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:35,520 justification of the price is that you're staying kind of inside the 147 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:36,020 four walls. 148 00:08:36,020 --> 00:08:39,520 So you're not just paying for functionality of a copilot and access to a large 149 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:40,080 language model. 150 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:44,680 You're paying for access to a large language model that has context and access 151 00:08:44,820 --> 00:08:47,480 to your data within a security boundary. 152 00:08:47,900 --> 00:08:49,800 And that's big for a lot of organizations. 153 00:08:50,260 --> 00:08:52,720 If you and I worked for two different orgs, 154 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:56,720 we don't want to be just going off and firing off business secrets to chat G P T 155 00:08:57,010 --> 00:09:01,800 under whatever nebulous licensing it has given day of the week and learning 156 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:05,640 those things and then surfacing them up to something I say to it gets surfaced 157 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:07,960 to you. Or even worse, something we say to each other, 158 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:08,880 it gets surfaced to somebody else. 159 00:09:09,380 --> 00:09:13,560 So a part of it is just kind of covering your bases and making sure you've got 160 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,680 that too. And I don't know how you quantify that one. 161 00:09:16,750 --> 00:09:19,440 Like that one feels very fuzzy . 162 00:09:19,590 --> 00:09:23,360 Yeah and very like process regulatory driven, those kinds of things. 163 00:09:23,860 --> 00:09:28,240 So we'll see where that one falls out. 164 00:09:28,540 --> 00:09:30,400 But the varied ENT entry is definitely very high. 165 00:09:30,540 --> 00:09:35,400 So it's a really weird gold rushy time right now. I don't know, 166 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:39,200 it's the best time if you're like skittish and you're not an early adopter, 167 00:09:39,950 --> 00:09:41,680 it's not the best time to dip your toe in. 168 00:09:41,680 --> 00:09:44,480 You might wanna like just take a step back and and see how it goes. 169 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:45,560 I agree. 170 00:09:45,560 --> 00:09:48,960 And Sean said in the chat that they're including business premium standard. 171 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:53,440 Maybe they anticipate lowering 300. I hope so. I was, I don't know. 172 00:09:53,560 --> 00:09:55,680 I could beat this horse for a while. 173 00:09:55,900 --> 00:09:57,760 That's probably not politically correct but. 174 00:09:57,860 --> 00:09:58,693 No you're talking about. 175 00:09:58,870 --> 00:10:01,120 Boiling the frog. That's politically correct. Yeah. 176 00:10:01,300 --> 00:10:04,640 I'm surprised they're not pushing it out to smaller businesses 'cause I feel 177 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,400 like a lot of the SMBs are the ones that could benefit from this a lot. 178 00:10:07,590 --> 00:10:11,760 Like I could use it for summarizing my email for doing some of that type of 179 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:16,160 stuff and to put the barrier to entry so high and Enterprisey 180 00:10:16,530 --> 00:10:20,920 feels like they're missing a huge target market and we've said it, 181 00:10:21,140 --> 00:10:22,080 AI is expensive. 182 00:10:22,130 --> 00:10:26,720 Maybe it's just the pure expense of they can't afford the expense 183 00:10:27,020 --> 00:10:30,720 of all these five person companies turning it on. 184 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,320 They need some bigger commitments due to the cost of it. 185 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,680 I was just listening to a podcast too. 186 00:10:37,020 --> 00:10:39,040 We had talked about it I think a little bit last week, 187 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:43,880 but it was after we recorded the acquired podcast and they did an interview a 188 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:45,080 three hour, not an interview, 189 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:49,720 a three hour podcast on Nvidia and the cost of 190 00:10:50,390 --> 00:10:55,240 some of these servers in the compute from Nvidia that I don't 191 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,360 know that it was used to train Microsoft 365 copilot. 192 00:10:58,460 --> 00:11:02,840 But that hardware from Nvidia and training these models 193 00:11:03,380 --> 00:11:06,000 is, I don't know that I ever thought about the cost. 194 00:11:06,230 --> 00:11:10,960 It's expensive listening to the cost of some of this hardware from Nvidia 195 00:11:11,460 --> 00:11:14,400 and what these companies need to train some of these models. 196 00:11:14,740 --> 00:11:19,600 You're talking like hundreds of millions of dollars just for the 197 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,480 hardware alone. if not billions. Yes. 198 00:11:22,740 --> 00:11:25,360 In other news super computers are expensive. 199 00:11:25,420 --> 00:11:27,040 That's my co-pilot news for the day. 200 00:11:27,070 --> 00:11:31,560 It's out , I mean November one is coming up rapidly. So I think, 201 00:11:31,560 --> 00:11:35,040 like I said, the way I'm viewing this as hits November one, 202 00:11:35,220 --> 00:11:37,480 nobody does anything in November December anyway. 203 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:41,360 It's a slow time basically worldwide folks come back, 204 00:11:41,390 --> 00:11:46,120 they start really kicking the tires in Q one calendar year 2024 205 00:11:46,700 --> 00:11:49,640 and by like March, April, may, 206 00:11:49,680 --> 00:11:54,120 June-ish timeframe next year I think you're gonna see like a crazy number of 207 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:58,760 articles start to come out that talk to R O I and T C O 208 00:11:59,100 --> 00:12:01,920 around LLMs like this. Yep. 209 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:06,800 Particularly in the context of office work, right? Like in in the M 365 world. 210 00:12:07,540 --> 00:12:09,200 The other interesting thing that's gonna happen, 211 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:14,360 I don't know if you watched the Google event from this week for they, 212 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:16,960 they did like hardware announcements for the pixel, things like that. 213 00:12:17,780 --> 00:12:22,160 But one of the things that's happening on that side is Google's been AI driven 214 00:12:22,380 --> 00:12:25,520 for a long time as well but a little bit more on the consumer side of the fence. 215 00:12:25,940 --> 00:12:30,760 So they recently announced that they're chat chatbot 216 00:12:31,350 --> 00:12:35,800 Bard is going to have access to Gmail 217 00:12:36,260 --> 00:12:41,080 and be able to interact with and pull that information in 218 00:12:41,340 --> 00:12:46,280 as well. So that was announced back in like mid-September a couple weeks ago. 219 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,000 But if you have access to Bard today, 220 00:12:48,980 --> 00:12:52,760 you can actually go out and ask Bard to do things 221 00:12:53,630 --> 00:12:57,800 against the corpus of data that exists 222 00:12:58,660 --> 00:13:03,000 inside of your Gmail account. Which lots of us have, 223 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:07,000 I think I've had a Gmail account, maybe not when it was in beta, 224 00:13:07,020 --> 00:13:11,760 but like I remember getting one very early on like it's been out there 225 00:13:12,620 --> 00:13:13,680 for quite a while. 226 00:13:13,820 --> 00:13:18,560 So I have this large body of data that is 227 00:13:19,540 --> 00:13:24,040 now kind of sitting in Gmail that very much like an M 365 228 00:13:24,110 --> 00:13:24,943 copilot. 229 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:29,840 I can point a large language model against it and say hey start to go 230 00:13:30,460 --> 00:13:32,080 figure things out for me. 231 00:13:32,500 --> 00:13:37,080 When's the last time that I met with Ben and talked to Ben about 232 00:13:37,190 --> 00:13:38,400 podcast analytics? 233 00:13:38,540 --> 00:13:41,640 And it can just go like figure that out and pull that information out. 234 00:13:42,340 --> 00:13:43,173 If you're, 235 00:13:43,380 --> 00:13:46,560 if anybody listen to this like you're looking for maybe some like real world 236 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:47,880 anecdotes around Bard, 237 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:52,400 I would recommend there's another podcast from the New York Times called Hard 238 00:13:52,470 --> 00:13:53,303 Fork. 239 00:13:53,380 --> 00:13:57,640 Go give a listen to their episode on Bard and Gmail integration. 240 00:13:58,180 --> 00:14:01,160 The two hosts of that episode have also been Gmail users for a long time. 241 00:14:01,900 --> 00:14:05,760 So like their prompt and the results are kind of hilarious. Like yeah you, 242 00:14:05,780 --> 00:14:06,840 you do have to go listen to it. 243 00:14:07,300 --> 00:14:12,200 But their prompt is basically tell me what psychological problems I have based 244 00:14:12,220 --> 00:14:13,840 on my email . 245 00:14:14,260 --> 00:14:15,800 And go that's really funny and go. 246 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:17,960 Out there and figure it out. So that's a good one as well. I. 247 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,560 Am sure you had Gmail and beta. Do you remember Gmail? I just looked it up. 248 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:24,840 Gmail was in beta for five years. Oh sure. do you remember? 249 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:27,840 I remember that 'cause it was so long. 250 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:30,920 I was thinking like the earliest of the early days. I don't know. 251 00:14:30,940 --> 00:14:34,040 I'd have to go back in and and see when my first message was there. 252 00:14:34,220 --> 00:14:37,880 2004 It was released and it was in beta until 2009. I know. 253 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:42,640 That I've had Gmail so long that I had enough data in there 254 00:14:42,710 --> 00:14:46,400 like before they even had paid plans that I had needed to start purging data and 255 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:47,680 getting it out because I was, 256 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:51,640 'cause I was over the threshold for for data stored along the way. 257 00:14:51,740 --> 00:14:53,920 That's funny. Yeah, I'll love to go listen to that. 258 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:56,760 I have not played with Bard so I have Gmail so yeah, I'll be honest, 259 00:14:56,840 --> 00:14:57,673 I don't use Gmail. 260 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:02,080 I still have an account but it is mostly junk mail at this point in time. 261 00:15:02,330 --> 00:15:06,440 Which could be really funny to ask Bard about considering there is very little 262 00:15:07,020 --> 00:15:11,640 actual personal email in my Gmail account at this point in time. Yeah, 263 00:15:11,820 --> 00:15:13,920 so this is gonna be really interesting too, 264 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:18,240 especially if G Google starts offering Bard to smaller companies or if they 265 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:22,400 start integrating it in with the G suite and Microsoft is stuck at this 300 user 266 00:15:22,410 --> 00:15:23,920 limit of . 267 00:15:24,260 --> 00:15:29,000 If that's gonna affect like where SMBs go, I don't know. 268 00:15:29,180 --> 00:15:32,600 That's all speculation at this point in time. I think it's. 269 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,160 Another valid thing to think about. 270 00:15:35,420 --> 00:15:39,520 So I think one of the other things that I've been keying onto is folks talk a 271 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:44,440 lot these days about how much of big tech over the last couple years uh, 272 00:15:44,460 --> 00:15:49,160 has really been related to the phenomenon of having access to 273 00:15:49,310 --> 00:15:52,560 0% interest rates. And it was cheap for everything. 274 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,080 It was cheap to acquire hardware, it was cheap to acquire software, 275 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:56,560 it was cheap to acquire people. 276 00:15:57,220 --> 00:16:00,520 So the the whole people process technology thing where you were always trying to 277 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:02,600 kind of balance those three different things, 278 00:16:03,180 --> 00:16:06,480 you really didn't have to worry about it anymore 'cause people were so cheap 279 00:16:06,710 --> 00:16:09,680 that didn't matter. Tech was so cheap that it didn't matter. 280 00:16:09,980 --> 00:16:11,600 And now that those things matter, 281 00:16:12,010 --> 00:16:16,920 folks need to sit down and and think about really like how to get the most 282 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,160 of it and where it comes in. I don't know. 283 00:16:19,390 --> 00:16:24,360 It's gonna be fun to watch from the outside I think is kind of my 284 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:25,193 take on it right now. 285 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:26,393 I agree. 286 00:16:26,420 --> 00:16:31,080 So with that we can be done boiling the co-pilot frog or beating the co-pilot 287 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:34,880 horse or pummeling the co-pilot something else. 288 00:16:35,470 --> 00:16:38,680 What else do you wanna talk about? We had some news we had talked about, 289 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:43,840 I had mentioned I owed some people a SharePoint, recycle PowerShell update. 290 00:16:44,010 --> 00:16:45,000 Where should we go from here? 291 00:16:45,140 --> 00:16:48,240 Why don't we get through your update and then we'll see what else we can swing 292 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:49,073 in. 293 00:16:52,180 --> 00:16:55,960 Do you feel overwhelmed by trying to manage your Office 365 environment? 294 00:16:56,020 --> 00:16:59,760 Are you facing unexpected issues that disrupt your company's productivity? 295 00:16:59,830 --> 00:17:03,800 Intelligent is here to help much like you take your car to the mechanic that has 296 00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:08,080 specialized knowledge on how to best keep your car running Intelligent helps you 297 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:11,400 with your Microsoft cloud environment because that's their expertise. 298 00:17:11,550 --> 00:17:15,360 Intelligent keeps up with the latest updates in the Microsoft cloud to help keep 299 00:17:15,360 --> 00:17:17,720 your business running smoothly and ahead of the curve. 300 00:17:17,830 --> 00:17:22,320 Whether you are a small organization with just a few users up to an organization 301 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:26,520 of several thousand employees they want to partner with you to implement and 302 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,040 administer your Microsoft cloud technology, 303 00:17:29,610 --> 00:17:33,000 visit them at intelligent.com/podcast. 304 00:17:33,380 --> 00:17:37,800 That's I N T E L L I G I N 305 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:42,760 k.com/podcast for more information or to schedule a 30 306 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:44,600 minute call to get started with them today. 307 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:49,680 Remember intelligent focuses on the Microsoft cloud so you can focus on your 308 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:54,760 business. We had talked, I think it was a couple weeks ago, 309 00:17:54,940 --> 00:17:58,680 it was two or three weeks ago where I was waiting for a script to go run against 310 00:17:58,680 --> 00:17:59,520 the recycle bin. 311 00:18:00,470 --> 00:18:03,600 This is an interesting thing to think about 'cause I've had this happen to me a 312 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:04,433 couple times now. 313 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:09,480 I was in a situation with a client and this was in all 314 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:11,720 honestly self incurred a bit. 315 00:18:11,980 --> 00:18:16,400 We had a power automate automation go awry 316 00:18:16,910 --> 00:18:20,280 that went in and deleted like thousands of files. 317 00:18:20,620 --> 00:18:22,320 So this was not just five or 10 files, 318 00:18:22,500 --> 00:18:26,440 it deleted somewhere in the realm of like 10,000 files out of 319 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:31,200 SharePoint. And fortunately for me for them when you. 320 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:32,360 Say deleted 10,000 files, 321 00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:35,000 like somebody might wanna delete in bulk a bunch of stuff. 322 00:18:35,060 --> 00:18:39,520 But in this case not by design a little rogue and maybe ran away 'cause it was 323 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:40,840 missing a conditional or it. 324 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:45,560 Was by design that this is a little bit of a uni unique scenario 325 00:18:45,710 --> 00:18:49,040 with this particular customer and how they want to use SharePoint. 326 00:18:49,420 --> 00:18:51,520 We may have talked about this like years ago. 327 00:18:51,830 --> 00:18:55,760 This process has been in place for them for probably three or four years now. 328 00:18:56,570 --> 00:19:01,360 Where as they move certain jobs that they're working 329 00:19:01,390 --> 00:19:05,000 with through the internal workflow. So, 330 00:19:05,100 --> 00:19:09,240 so through their internal process they reach a point in time 331 00:19:09,940 --> 00:19:14,520 and this could be over several years that it works its way through this process 332 00:19:15,290 --> 00:19:20,160 where they actually want to move an entire folder that contains all 333 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:24,200 the files related to a job from one library to the next library to the next 334 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:24,790 library. 335 00:19:24,790 --> 00:19:26,480 Move it down the assembly line. 336 00:19:26,540 --> 00:19:30,720 We could argue the validity of doing that in SharePoint and why you would not 337 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,240 want to do that and all the issues I encountered. 338 00:19:33,460 --> 00:19:37,680 But it is working As part of that we are using 339 00:19:38,380 --> 00:19:42,600 moving a thousand files that can contain multiple gigabytes from one SharePoint 340 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:45,600 site to another. SharePoint site is not an easy task. 341 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:50,320 A folder to a folder within a library works great site to a site does not. 342 00:19:50,780 --> 00:19:55,000 So we're actually using sharegate with a hybrid worker process to 343 00:19:55,490 --> 00:19:58,360 issue a copy command to copy it from one site to another. 344 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:02,240 'cause sharegate does way better than anything Microsoft has but it doesn't do a 345 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:02,530 move. 346 00:20:02,530 --> 00:20:04,480 Which is interesting right? you think, 347 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,080 you think there'd be an a P I to enable that but nah whatever. 348 00:20:07,230 --> 00:20:10,560 That in and of itself is very interesting but it does a copy. 349 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:14,480 Sharegate doesn't have a move. So we do a copy and then a delete. 350 00:20:14,550 --> 00:20:19,080 Well if that server goes rogue we were missing some error checking and 351 00:20:19,700 --> 00:20:24,280 the copy did not run but the following step to delete did run. 352 00:20:24,700 --> 00:20:29,400 So instead of copying from location A to location B and then 353 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,000 deleting from location A, 354 00:20:31,420 --> 00:20:35,040 it tried to copy failed and then just deleted from location A just missing. 355 00:20:35,110 --> 00:20:36,680 Like a little conditional check or. 356 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:37,680 Something, right? Missing a, hey. 357 00:20:38,700 --> 00:20:41,720 Did I actually finish right or did I do what you thought I was gonna do? 358 00:20:42,020 --> 00:20:45,920 Did this job run successfully? Did it actually hit the hybrid worker? 359 00:20:46,140 --> 00:20:51,040 Was the hybrid worker on all that type of stuff. So for like a, 360 00:20:51,220 --> 00:20:56,200 it happened over the course of two or three days I think it was deleting 361 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,360 these folders without doing the copy. 362 00:20:58,700 --> 00:21:02,200 So they all fortunately ended up in the recycle bin. That being said, 363 00:21:02,790 --> 00:21:07,720 un-deleting a thousand files or in this case 10,000 files from their psycho bin 364 00:21:08,260 --> 00:21:11,200 is not something Microsoft makes easy, 365 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:14,040 especially when there's folders within folders. One, 366 00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:17,360 I am not gonna go through a psycho bin and scroll through and individually 367 00:21:17,540 --> 00:21:22,480 select 8,000 files or 10,000 files and even try to find 368 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:23,120 the right ones. 369 00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:26,800 Because the only way you can find them in the recycle bin is by looking at the U 370 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:31,000 R L and making sure you have the right U R L and then you're looking for certain 371 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:32,200 folders or sub folders. 372 00:21:32,450 --> 00:21:37,360 There is a PowerShell script and this is what I was waiting to run to un-delete 373 00:21:37,360 --> 00:21:40,240 stuff from the recycle bin to do a restore item. You're. 374 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,600 Thinking about kind of the P M P method, 375 00:21:43,140 --> 00:21:47,440 get a context to the web and just basically go to that recycle bin and just boom. 376 00:21:47,910 --> 00:21:51,480 Pull back everything. Yeah that's loop through it approach. Yes. 377 00:21:51,550 --> 00:21:54,440 Look at the U R L and then you do a restore item. 378 00:21:54,700 --> 00:21:57,440 If the U r L matches it worked by and large. 379 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,800 I actually had a content type that inherited from a folder. 380 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,800 I did not worry about this because it wasn't super important in this particular 381 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:09,480 scenario. But if you try to restore an item before you restore the folder, 382 00:22:09,820 --> 00:22:13,680 it just creates a normal folder and it doesn't actually restore the folder. 383 00:22:13,820 --> 00:22:16,520 And then when it tries to restore the folder, that's actually a content type, 384 00:22:16,780 --> 00:22:18,840 it throws an error because the folder's already there. 385 00:22:19,340 --> 00:22:24,000 So if you really wanted to write this well you'd have to restore all of your 386 00:22:24,030 --> 00:22:28,320 folders first but restore them in the right order from the highest 387 00:22:28,870 --> 00:22:33,120 down to the lowest level to make sure you kept all the properties and the 388 00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:35,480 metadata and the content type and all of that. Mm-hmm , 389 00:22:36,030 --> 00:22:40,200 it's a pain to do this. Again for this scenario, I didn't care. 390 00:22:40,300 --> 00:22:44,240 The really one I only cared about was the top level and I just let it go wild. 391 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,480 If it created a folder, if it aired because the folder was already there, 392 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,880 I let it air and then I just switched the content type at the root level and 393 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:52,200 just put the metadata back on. 394 00:22:52,430 --> 00:22:56,760 This took a surprisingly long time for about 800 files. 395 00:22:57,750 --> 00:23:00,280 It's a lot of a p i requests like going back and forth. 396 00:23:00,350 --> 00:23:04,640 Like even just the initial like enumeration. It's, yeah, 397 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:08,600 I mean you think about it like each one of those is effectively like an HT P 398 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:12,720 request takes time, has latency, you might inject additional logic, 399 00:23:12,860 --> 00:23:15,000 you have the overhead of auth and all the other, 400 00:23:15,470 --> 00:23:19,360 there's a bunch of stuff that goes into it that isn't like readily apparent and 401 00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:21,200 you're like, oh I just, I need an easy button. Right? 402 00:23:21,260 --> 00:23:24,320 And I'm kind of surprised there isn't an easy button at this point, 403 00:23:24,820 --> 00:23:29,320 but I don't think the scenario of, hey, I deleted 10,000 objects, 404 00:23:29,350 --> 00:23:32,880 like whatever it happens to be is probably not like a high order bit. 405 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,840 Probably not super common. No. And the other thing you can hit, 406 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:38,680 because I absolutely hit it, 407 00:23:38,940 --> 00:23:42,680 is if you try to do 'em all at the same time or do 'em all sequentially, 408 00:23:42,980 --> 00:23:43,740 it takes, 409 00:23:43,740 --> 00:23:48,400 so it took about a hundred an hour to restore like 800 files. 410 00:23:48,740 --> 00:23:52,840 So 10,000 files, you're looking at 10 hours. I got throttled. 411 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:57,520 Microsoft did not appreciate me hammering away at that a p I on that site for 10 412 00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:58,353 hours straight. 413 00:23:58,700 --> 00:24:01,920 And they started getting throttled because I would go try to visit the site to 414 00:24:02,020 --> 00:24:04,120 see are these showing up or not? 415 00:24:04,340 --> 00:24:08,120 And I was getting messages in the browser about being throttle. I was like, 416 00:24:08,120 --> 00:24:10,520 yeah, I cannot load this page. And if you go look at the U R L, 417 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,040 it's the whole throttling thing. Now you've done it. To your point, 418 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:17,200 Microsoft does not make this easy. I'm really hoping. So they have, 419 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:18,120 and we talked about it before, 420 00:24:18,120 --> 00:24:22,080 some of the backup stuff coming to syntex later this year. 421 00:24:22,550 --> 00:24:24,000 Ideally in this scenario, 422 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:29,640 I think this is one where having a backup or restore tool could 423 00:24:29,790 --> 00:24:32,520 potentially make this quicker. I don't know, 424 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:34,720 I don't know what the APIs look like there. 425 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,040 If you have a backup tool and you go through and select your top level folder 426 00:24:38,420 --> 00:24:42,800 and do a restore, if that will speed it up. 427 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,560 Or if when Microsoft comes out with their backup and syntax, 428 00:24:46,360 --> 00:24:51,160 I know initially I think in that post they said they're not gonna have file or 429 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:55,240 folder level restores. I think it's more gonna be site level. But that would be, 430 00:24:56,510 --> 00:24:59,200 this is one of those scenarios where we talk about, 431 00:24:59,340 --> 00:25:02,200 and I've heard clients say it, ah, Microsoft's got everything backed up. 432 00:25:02,230 --> 00:25:06,560 It's highly available. They're prepared. Yeah, to a certain extent. 433 00:25:06,820 --> 00:25:10,800 But a scenario like this where it's in the recycle bin or had we not caught this 434 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:12,480 right away and we had gone the 90 days, 435 00:25:12,870 --> 00:25:17,040 this is where you get yourself in trouble. And torg in the discord chat too, 436 00:25:17,100 --> 00:25:21,440 he said he has some users that mass delete directories trying to unsync 437 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:23,200 libraries to their local pc. 438 00:25:23,310 --> 00:25:24,760 That one happens quite a bit. 439 00:25:24,820 --> 00:25:26,360 You can end up in the same scenario. 440 00:25:26,620 --> 00:25:30,480 I'm guilty of that one. I forget. Sometimes it's, yeah, it's tough. So I, 441 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,480 I mean I think you're doing the right things. 442 00:25:33,260 --> 00:25:35,920 The takeaway is you need to think about that stuff. 443 00:25:36,250 --> 00:25:40,280 Maybe you need to have a process to go and have an escalation path in your help 444 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:44,600 desk for end users who delete stuff. Folks are familiar with the recycle bin, 445 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,840 they know how to do self-service restores, all those kinds of things. 446 00:25:48,030 --> 00:25:52,120 There's only so far that somebody could go as a service provider to stop you 447 00:25:52,190 --> 00:25:56,040 from taking out a gun and shooting yourself in the foot. Uh, if you do, 448 00:25:56,190 --> 00:25:59,800 it's great. Here's how you're gonna triage that and get yourself back. Yeah. 449 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,080 You're just not gonna walk straight ever again. It'll be fine. 450 00:26:02,090 --> 00:26:05,320 Scott, we're going all off the rails for politically correct this episode. 451 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,360 We're shooting ourselves, we're boiling frogs, beating horses, . 452 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:11,360 , all of it. Yeah. Yeah. 453 00:26:11,670 --> 00:26:14,440 It's bad out there for body parts and animals today. That's, 454 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:15,760 that's all I gotta say. Not. 455 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,480 A good episode for that. But no, I agree a hundred percent. 456 00:26:18,850 --> 00:26:23,280 There are absolutely ways to shoot yourself in the foot with all of this and 457 00:26:23,900 --> 00:26:27,160 get yourself in trouble. And to your point, having a plan, 458 00:26:27,180 --> 00:26:31,680 how are you gonna handle this? Even some sort of monitoring in place. 459 00:26:32,100 --> 00:26:37,000 That's another thing is how do you necessarily know when files are deleted? 460 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,000 I don't know that I have a solution for this, 461 00:26:39,300 --> 00:26:42,000 but I have absolutely had customers call me before too and say, 462 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,200 this file was there yesterday or a week ago or two weeks ago. 463 00:26:45,270 --> 00:26:49,240 It's not there today. And it's been one, 464 00:26:49,740 --> 00:26:53,320 try to find it. Is it in the recycle bin? Sometimes it's not been deleted. 465 00:26:53,390 --> 00:26:54,640 It's been moved. Mm-hmm . 466 00:26:55,060 --> 00:26:58,520 And I've used the audit log in compliance center. I. 467 00:26:58,520 --> 00:26:59,480 Was gonna say that's what you wanna do. 468 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,920 You wanna like kinda like clap and wipe your hands into the audit log. We go, 469 00:27:03,100 --> 00:27:07,040 yes. You just had to hope you had the audit log on and that it was there and 470 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:08,640 available for you. But that's not, and that. 471 00:27:08,930 --> 00:27:13,280 Could find it because we could also talk about the audit log search and the 472 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:18,040 horrendous of trying to put a path into search for a certain file or folder. 473 00:27:18,420 --> 00:27:23,280 It is far from ideal in my experience 474 00:27:23,300 --> 00:27:26,280 and perspective. They're coming out with some new search capabilities. 475 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,000 I think the new search is there now and the classic search is going away because 476 00:27:30,630 --> 00:27:34,080 this is the whole theme of Microsoft lately is we have new and we have classic, 477 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:38,960 whether it's the audit log search or Microsoft Teams or any number of other 478 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,000 things. So yes, that is when the audit log becomes your friend. 479 00:27:42,260 --> 00:27:45,080 And hopefully you can get searched to work and you have the data there. 480 00:27:45,300 --> 00:27:48,920 But that was my SharePoint Restore and it is not fast. 481 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:50,473 , 482 00:27:50,540 --> 00:27:54,800 so still have to rely on P M P and sharegate and hope for the best. 483 00:27:55,150 --> 00:27:58,960 That was it. But everything's back now. Everything is moving again. 484 00:27:59,260 --> 00:28:03,240 My jobs are running successfully and stuff is not being inadvertently deleted 485 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:04,080 before it's moved. 486 00:28:04,300 --> 00:28:08,920 And it only took me running PowerShell all night long between getting throttled 487 00:28:08,940 --> 00:28:11,240 and just the time it took. Azure. 488 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:15,960 Automation jobs have been updated, logic's been updated, all is accounted for. 489 00:28:16,020 --> 00:28:16,440 That's. 490 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:16,660 That. 491 00:28:16,660 --> 00:28:21,160 That's that. All right, well we got time for, what do you think? One more. 492 00:28:21,260 --> 00:28:22,720 Do you wanna throw in one more? I, oh, 493 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:24,760 I have an announcement but that's really quick. 494 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:27,440 Should we do that at the end or should we throw that in now and then do one 495 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:28,120 more? It's up to. 496 00:28:28,120 --> 00:28:28,480 You. It's your. 497 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:33,040 Show. Not really. You had one more. Okay. So really quick. E S P C , 498 00:28:33,140 --> 00:28:37,280 the European SharePoint Conference, they sent me a LinkedIn message. 499 00:28:37,620 --> 00:28:40,520 So this is absolutely valid ish. 500 00:28:40,990 --> 00:28:43,080 They have these community awards, 501 00:28:43,150 --> 00:28:47,000 they're Inspire awards where you can go in and do a nomination for best 502 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,920 community contributor, best YouTube channel, best online courses, 503 00:28:50,630 --> 00:28:54,640 diversity leader, award tech, trailblazer wellness mentorship, 504 00:28:54,890 --> 00:28:58,800 young female STEM award, and the best podcast Scott. 505 00:28:59,220 --> 00:29:03,120 So they said they wondered if we would just let people know about this so people 506 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,800 could go in and nominate all of those different people. 507 00:29:05,990 --> 00:29:08,760 Help kind of get the word out about community. 508 00:29:09,460 --> 00:29:12,280 People that you maybe know about, 509 00:29:12,330 --> 00:29:15,640 enjoy working with can recognize some of those community members. 510 00:29:16,500 --> 00:29:18,360 And naturally having a podcast. 511 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,600 I think you should go nominate us for the best podcast. But I'm partial. 512 00:29:23,060 --> 00:29:25,280 If you don't nominate us, I won't be hurt. 513 00:29:25,820 --> 00:29:30,080 But the link for this is we'll be in the show notes. We threw it in Discord. 514 00:29:30,380 --> 00:29:33,640 So if you do wanna go know somebody that's in the community, 515 00:29:33,900 --> 00:29:37,360 if you do wanna maybe nominate our podcast, I already did it, Scott. 516 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,800 I nominated ourselves and I put right in why we're the best podcast. 517 00:29:41,140 --> 00:29:45,960 And it was because I do it and it's my podcast and I'm very partial . 518 00:29:46,110 --> 00:29:46,400 Yeah, 519 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:50,160 they just asked if we'd help raise some awareness for people to go out and vote 520 00:29:50,260 --> 00:29:54,320 for these Inspire awards and different people that are contributing to the 521 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:55,153 community. 522 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:56,240 Excellent. We'll. 523 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:57,720 Throw that in and then we can do one more. 524 00:29:58,030 --> 00:29:58,863 Inspire away. 525 00:29:58,950 --> 00:30:00,200 Inspire away. Maybe. 526 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:01,760 We'll have to come back and revisit this one. 527 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,040 I don't know how much of a rabbit hole it's gonna send us down. 528 00:30:04,070 --> 00:30:07,160 Virtual machines in Azure use virtual machines in Azure. Oh. 529 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,880 This one could be a rabbit hole, but we can do a longer up. 530 00:30:09,940 --> 00:30:11,520 We could do a longer episode today. 531 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:12,760 I mean it's up to you. It's your show. 532 00:30:12,860 --> 00:30:14,640 No it's not. This one's yours. However it. 533 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:14,940 Works out. 534 00:30:14,940 --> 00:30:16,560 No, we're gonna do this. We're gonna talk about this. 535 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,760 'cause this one is a kind of a big deal I think. I. 536 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:21,593 Don't know that it's a big deal. 537 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,240 I think it's interesting 'cause it's something that I've never really thought 538 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:29,840 about and I've always taken for granted. Back to my question. 539 00:30:30,030 --> 00:30:31,640 Okay, so what is this? You. 540 00:30:31,660 --> 00:30:35,040 Use uh, virtual machines in Azure? Yes or no? Yes. Okay, great. 541 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:36,000 Quite a few. Do. 542 00:30:36,020 --> 00:30:39,960 You ever browse the internet from your virtual machines in Azure? 543 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,440 Like maybe to go outside and download something, 544 00:30:42,460 --> 00:30:45,920 get access to external data that exists outside the purview, 545 00:30:46,580 --> 00:30:50,280 not of pun intended, but outside the boundary of your vnet. 546 00:30:50,300 --> 00:30:52,480 So you're accessing information on the public internet. 547 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,200 Maybe you go to Google being duck to go things like that. 548 00:30:55,460 --> 00:30:59,680 100% Of the time. Whether it's to download PowerShell modules or like you said, 549 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:00,833 download software. 550 00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,200 I don't know that I've ever had a VM in my experience that doesn't, 551 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,640 I know clients do. But yeah, I'm always using the internet for my VMs. 552 00:31:07,740 --> 00:31:09,680 Why else do you have a computer other than the internet? 553 00:31:09,900 --> 00:31:11,160 100000%. 554 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:15,440 I do this as well and I've never really thought about it. 555 00:31:16,150 --> 00:31:19,880 Like specifically the way that your virtual machines mm-hmm. 556 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:24,800 automatically get outbound internet access and access 557 00:31:24,900 --> 00:31:29,240 to the public internet. So there's, in Azure virtual machine land, 558 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:33,520 there's ways that you can privatize the traffic for your virtual machines. 559 00:31:33,830 --> 00:31:37,040 Even from an outbound perspective. Like you could do forced routing, 560 00:31:37,060 --> 00:31:41,520 you could go through a nat gateway. There's ways to route through sbs. 561 00:31:41,620 --> 00:31:45,920 You can stand up your own public IP and you can say, great, 562 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,120 I have a PIP on this vm and therefore the PIP is this. 563 00:31:49,220 --> 00:31:51,960 And outbound internet access is gonna drive that way. Yep. 564 00:31:52,020 --> 00:31:54,880 But if you just go stand up at a standard vm, it's, oh, 565 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:59,520 I still get an bog standard vm. Like any vm. Oh, 566 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:01,120 I still get outbound internet access. 567 00:32:01,540 --> 00:32:05,160 So there's this really interesting update that came out on Azure updates. 568 00:32:05,460 --> 00:32:10,440 And the notice is that default to outbound internet 569 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,720 access for virtual machines in Azure is being retired. 570 00:32:15,580 --> 00:32:20,360 And customers need to go ahead and transition over 571 00:32:20,500 --> 00:32:24,280 to a new method of internet access. 572 00:32:24,860 --> 00:32:26,440 So in the world today, 573 00:32:26,740 --> 00:32:31,440 and up until the time this retirement is driven all the way through 574 00:32:31,700 --> 00:32:36,480 in 2025, like it's a ways out. You got time, you just go create a VM and, 575 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:40,080 and you have that access. In the future, that's not going to be the case. 576 00:32:40,900 --> 00:32:45,560 You are going to have to explicitly define your 577 00:32:45,740 --> 00:32:49,440 method of outbound internet access. And again, 578 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,920 going back to things like stand up a nat gateway, 579 00:32:53,540 --> 00:32:57,320 create a load balancer and have an outbound rule on that load balancer and then 580 00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,680 that load balancer gets a PIP on it, all that kind of stuff. 581 00:33:00,060 --> 00:33:04,560 Or just go ahead and directly attach a PIP over 582 00:33:04,860 --> 00:33:09,000 to your virtual machine. So, uh, 583 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,440 I was trying to think like for the number of times that I create a virtual 584 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,240 machine and I x x my way through it, 585 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,680 or I have just some like basic arm templates, Hey, 586 00:33:15,710 --> 00:33:19,560 spin me up like in Ubuntu 20.4 l t s, blah, blah, blah. 587 00:33:19,620 --> 00:33:23,920 So I can play with it and do something with it and I gotta go back and adjust 588 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,880 that stuff and make sure that I actually have them figured in with 589 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,680 things pips in them. Like, Hey, 590 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:34,600 gimme like a basic public IP and associate that with my nick and get it going. 591 00:33:35,380 --> 00:33:40,200 If I wasn't doing that already in some way, 592 00:33:40,370 --> 00:33:45,360 shape, or form. Yeah. So not like a massive change. Arguably a good thing. Hey, 593 00:33:45,470 --> 00:33:49,400 like you get more control and you'll have more insight into what's going on. 594 00:33:49,700 --> 00:33:53,160 But it made me do a double take. Like just going back thinking like, huh, 595 00:33:53,390 --> 00:33:57,040 I've never actually thought about the way like default outbound internet access 596 00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:58,760 works. I always just take it for granted. 597 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,080 'cause usually the first thing I do is hop on a VM and then go download 598 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:03,960 something . Let me just reach out. And. 599 00:34:04,020 --> 00:34:06,600 And that's mine. And I will say by and large, 600 00:34:07,860 --> 00:34:12,720 my VMs tend to have public IP addresses because 601 00:34:13,270 --> 00:34:15,920 most of the time I'm just doing an R D P connection into 'em. 602 00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:17,480 I am not being super secure. 603 00:34:17,660 --> 00:34:21,520 I'm not going and paying for Bastion or just in time or any of those. 604 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,440 I just put on a public IP address. 605 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:29,840 I lock the R D P port or the R D P access on port 33 89 down 606 00:34:30,140 --> 00:34:34,080 to my public IP address. So I don't have a ton that don't have a public ip, 607 00:34:34,420 --> 00:34:38,520 but I absolutely similar type thing have clients where they're using 608 00:34:39,030 --> 00:34:43,880 Bastion to access everything and they don't put that public 609 00:34:44,020 --> 00:34:48,920 IP address on because they don't want that VM exposed to the internet 610 00:34:49,140 --> 00:34:50,680 on a public IP address. 611 00:34:50,780 --> 00:34:53,280 100% And totally valid. Right? Right. That's a great. 612 00:34:53,300 --> 00:34:57,280 Use case. And that's where, maybe not a huge deal, 613 00:34:57,500 --> 00:35:00,920 but I think to the one that I'm using sharegate on, 614 00:35:00,980 --> 00:35:02,960 the one that I'm using for this client to move files. 615 00:35:03,580 --> 00:35:06,160 It doesn't have a public IP address. I use Bastion, 616 00:35:06,620 --> 00:35:11,400 but I'm always going into it and downloading updates to the PowerShell 617 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,120 modules, to the p and p command. Lets, 618 00:35:13,260 --> 00:35:17,920 or grabbing a sharegate update as they update it, stuff like that. 619 00:35:18,380 --> 00:35:22,280 And that particular client, they're not gonna put a public IP address on it. 620 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:26,240 I don't know that they necessarily want to from a security perspective, 621 00:35:26,900 --> 00:35:30,600 but that means they are gonna have to go in and they may have some load 622 00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:34,360 balancers and Azure firewalls, something like that already. 623 00:35:34,580 --> 00:35:37,040 I'm actually not a hundred percent sure, but they're gonna have to, 624 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:41,720 to go in then and reconfigure all of these different machines 625 00:35:42,340 --> 00:35:44,760 if we still want them to have internet access. 626 00:35:44,940 --> 00:35:49,920 Or some clients that do make it all privatized and they require you to A V P 627 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:52,280 N into Azure or be on the network. 628 00:35:52,340 --> 00:35:55,400 And they're using express route to access all their VMs and Azure. 629 00:35:56,110 --> 00:36:00,800 Like I think some of those companies that maybe have large footprints in Azure 630 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,600 and really have tried to privatize 'em. And to your point when you're like, 631 00:36:05,140 --> 00:36:07,440 you locked this down and you're gonna have to figure out another way to 632 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:09,960 internet, I'm like, huh, I had your reaction. Like, 633 00:36:10,150 --> 00:36:12,600 I've never thought about that before. If I don't have a public ip, 634 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:14,400 I can still get to the internet. 635 00:36:14,950 --> 00:36:19,440 That might be a fairly large change for some of these enterprises that 636 00:36:19,670 --> 00:36:24,040 have tried to lock it down, but maybe haven't had that Huh. 637 00:36:24,220 --> 00:36:27,880 Moment that you and I just did of, I do still get to the internet with those. 638 00:36:28,100 --> 00:36:32,600 It makes me think that I need to go get hands on with Nat Gateway, 639 00:36:32,930 --> 00:36:36,560 which I don't think I've done yet. I, I was trying to think a little bit like, 640 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:41,200 have I ever even deployed a Nat Gateway and I haven't gone down that 641 00:36:41,430 --> 00:36:46,160 path so far. And I, I think Nat Gateway, like, and when you go read the docs, 642 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:51,160 it's kind of the preferred way to, to go down this path. Like, all right, 643 00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,280 let's start at the top, secure by default, blah, blah, blah. 644 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,560 You start walking the line down and you get to outbound connectivity and all 645 00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:01,040 that stuff. And Nat Gateway is kind of the go-to thing. 646 00:37:01,300 --> 00:37:06,240 So maybe we'll have to go and play and and get hands on with 647 00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:07,720 that one. 'cause Nat, 648 00:37:07,720 --> 00:37:11,560 the other thing with Nat Gateway is it's not just for virtual machines. Well, I, 649 00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:15,880 I mean it's for units of compute, like private compute. 650 00:37:16,140 --> 00:37:18,720 And the reason I'm being kind of cagey and saying units of compute, 651 00:37:18,830 --> 00:37:23,560 because there's potentially PAs services that leverage virtual machines as 652 00:37:23,590 --> 00:37:27,280 like IAS constructs a k s, Azure Kubernetes service. Yeah. 653 00:37:27,740 --> 00:37:32,720 Do functions or web apps on an isolated plan and stand 654 00:37:32,720 --> 00:37:33,880 those kinds of things up. 655 00:37:34,580 --> 00:37:39,480 App services where you have vnet integrations and things like that come through. 656 00:37:39,630 --> 00:37:44,560 Even other like data analytics services like synapse, databricks, 657 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:45,000 all those things. 658 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:49,920 Like they can get on v VNAs and do some kind of basic injection and 659 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:50,753 things like that. 660 00:37:50,980 --> 00:37:55,680 And those are all subject and would also work with something like a Nat Gateway 661 00:37:55,860 --> 00:37:57,080 as well. So, yeah. 662 00:37:57,180 --> 00:38:00,320 So Sean is telling you what's super easy to set up. 663 00:38:00,460 --> 00:38:04,880 So if we go try this and we mess something up, Sean's gonna laugh at us. If. 664 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,040 We mess it up, it's gonna be in, in your Azure subscription. 665 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:10,160 It's be it'll be be fine. It'll be fine. 666 00:38:10,500 --> 00:38:13,120 No, we should, I haven't set up an that gateway either. We'll. 667 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,920 Do that one as a a two to the cloud thing and just next extra way through it 668 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:20,160 without any docs should, if Sean says it's easy, it's gotta be easy. Yeah. 669 00:38:20,260 --> 00:38:21,093 It could go wrong. 670 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,680 I mean it's just something in Azure we can always delete it and recreate it, 671 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:25,110 right? 672 00:38:25,110 --> 00:38:29,200 Yeah. Uh, I mean his hour hourly rate so he, he can come back and fix it for us. 673 00:38:29,260 --> 00:38:29,980 That's okay. 674 00:38:29,980 --> 00:38:33,720 Fix it up. Alright, well yeah, this one interesting. Like you said, 675 00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:35,800 you definitely have some time to go to go in and fix it, 676 00:38:36,140 --> 00:38:39,320 but it is one that I think is gonna make people go, huh, 677 00:38:39,500 --> 00:38:44,360 and have to think through what this actually means for maybe some of their 678 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:45,800 larger deployments. That's about. 679 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,480 It. That's it. We'll see if we need to come back and revisit that one. Alright, 680 00:38:48,500 --> 00:38:49,920 we got through it. Look at that. We. 681 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:53,520 Did. And we're not too far over our normal allotted time. 682 00:38:53,940 --> 00:38:57,680 So with that another day, another week, 683 00:38:57,870 --> 00:39:01,760 another episode. Scott. Oh, I should look just a minute. 684 00:39:01,930 --> 00:39:05,280 We're not gonna hit it yet. Do you know a milestone? We're about to hit Scott. 685 00:39:05,460 --> 00:39:07,160 We are about to hit a milestone on this podcast. 686 00:39:07,720 --> 00:39:10,720 A milestone. Let me see. I'm on the backend. 687 00:39:10,910 --> 00:39:15,280 This is episode 356. That doesn't mean much to me, 688 00:39:15,340 --> 00:39:17,280 it just means that we've been doing this a long time. 689 00:39:18,140 --> 00:39:21,200 You have some weird download milestone or something in your head? I do. 690 00:39:21,340 --> 00:39:26,240 You got it. But I can't. Oh, there we go. Sign in. Let's go. Look. As of today, 691 00:39:26,700 --> 00:39:29,000 we have all time. Friday. 692 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:29,833 October 6th. 693 00:39:29,980 --> 00:39:31,480 Friday October 6th. 694 00:39:31,740 --> 00:39:34,160 If you wanna know the lag on how long it takes to get these out. 695 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:36,200 . Yeah, we have a little bit of a lag right now. 696 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:40,680 We've kind of gotten ahead. So, but as of today, October 6th, we have 697 00:39:41,110 --> 00:39:46,110 996,949 698 00:39:47,090 --> 00:39:51,720 total show listens slash downloads since we started the show. Yeah. 699 00:39:51,740 --> 00:39:55,160 Listen. Only the ones that come from the official stuff too. 700 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,560 I think you get more out of Spotify and Google and all that if. 701 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,120 You would go include those. I see. And I think, 702 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,240 I don't know if Spotify's included in these or not. 703 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:07,920 I know YouTube listens or not. So we may have already crossed the threshold, 704 00:40:08,020 --> 00:40:12,960 but in our official stats tracker on the background over the last 705 00:40:13,580 --> 00:40:17,720 six years, we have almost reached that million download mark. 706 00:40:17,810 --> 00:40:20,480 There you go. I have to buy you a cake or something. 707 00:40:20,900 --> 00:40:24,520 In how many countries do you think it's been downloaded in Scott? Just random. 708 00:40:24,670 --> 00:40:25,503 This is random. 709 00:40:25,900 --> 00:40:28,080 113. Oh, they. 710 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,040 Got rid of my total view. I don't know. , 711 00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:33,320 they used to tell me it's more than, oh no, there it is. 712 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:35,280 190 countries. 713 00:40:35,710 --> 00:40:38,720 Some of them only have one download 'cause I don't know why, 714 00:40:38,980 --> 00:40:43,920 but we haven't downloaded now in 190 countries across those million downloads. 715 00:40:43,990 --> 00:40:48,200 It's kind of fun just to go in and see because not too, Shay, let me tell you, 716 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:53,040 I would never be able to get to 192 countries. So in some strange, weird wayco, 717 00:40:53,140 --> 00:40:57,000 we have been in 190 countries or at least our voice has been. There you go. 718 00:40:57,340 --> 00:40:57,750 So. 719 00:40:57,750 --> 00:41:00,880 With that, go enjoy your weekend. That was my weird milestone, 720 00:41:01,140 --> 00:41:06,000 my almost milestone We've hit and we will be back next week with 721 00:41:06,350 --> 00:41:10,000 some other topic about something that strikes our fancy . 722 00:41:10,550 --> 00:41:12,600 Very descriptive. All right, thanks Ben. 723 00:41:12,860 --> 00:41:17,120 All right, thanks Scott. If you enjoyed the podcast, 724 00:41:17,620 --> 00:41:19,600 go leave us a five star rating in iTunes. 725 00:41:19,780 --> 00:41:24,480 It helps to get the word out so more it pros can learn about Office 365 and 726 00:41:24,530 --> 00:41:25,363 Azure. 727 00:41:25,620 --> 00:41:29,360 If you have any questions you want us to address on the show or feedback about 728 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:33,840 the show, feel free to reach out via our website, Twitter, or Facebook. 729 00:41:34,100 --> 00:41:36,040 Thanks again for listening and have a great day.

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Microsoft Cloud IT Pro Podcast

Ben Stegink, Scott Hoag

On the MS Cloud IT Pro Podcast, Scott and Ben discuss the Microsoft Cloud with a focus on IT Pros. They'll discuss the latest in Microsoft 365 and Office 365 News, Azure news and talk about their experiences with managing the Microsoft Cloud as well as interview industry experts on various cloud technology. They'll cover things such as SharePoint, Exchange, Microsoft Teams, PowerShell, Azure, Azure AD, Security, Networking, Storage, and the many other technologies and products that have made their way into the Microsoft 365 suite and Azure. To stay up-to-date on the latest in Microsoft Cloud news and gain some valuable knowledge as you deploy it within your own organization, make sure to tune in every week! Find out more at msclouditpropodcast.com.

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