Episode 387 – Windows on ARM: Physical Hardware vs Virtual Machines, App Compatibility, and Other Considerations

October 25, 2024

Episode Transcript

Welcome to Episode 387 of the Microsoft Cloud IT Pro Podcast. In this episode, Scott and Ben dive into a discussion around Ben’s newly purchased Surface Pro 11th Edition – a Copilot Plus PC running on an ARM processor. Ben gives his takes on the state of the hardware and how Windows 11 runs on a native ARM processor. Scott also gives his experience running Windows 11 daily for work on Parallels Desktop on Apple Silicon. Scott’s hot take – virtualizing Windows 11 on a Mac is better than running it on native hardware. Listen in as Ben and Scott talk through Windows on ARM, whether a virtual machine might be best for you to try out Windows on ARM, pitfalls of application compatibility, and when you might just want to consider a remote desktop session instead to get your Windows work done from a Mac.

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1 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:04,740 Welcome to episode 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:05,620 387 3 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,139 of the Microsoft Cloud IT Pro Podcast recorded 4 00:00:09,279 --> 00:00:10,740 live on October 21, 5 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:11,619 2024. 6 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,039 This is a show about Microsoft 365 and 7 00:00:15,039 --> 00:00:17,464 Azure from the perspective of IT pros and 8 00:00:17,464 --> 00:00:19,625 end users, where we discuss a topic or 9 00:00:19,625 --> 00:00:21,964 recent news and how it relates to you. 10 00:00:22,105 --> 00:00:24,265 Today, we depart a bit from the cloud 11 00:00:24,265 --> 00:00:26,585 and talk about devices you may access the 12 00:00:26,585 --> 00:00:29,704 cloud with. Ben recently purchased the Surface Pro 13 00:00:29,704 --> 00:00:33,119 11th edition, a Copilot Plus PC running an 14 00:00:33,119 --> 00:00:33,939 ARM Processor. 15 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:36,640 Today, he gives his take on it as 16 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:39,859 well as discussing things like experiences on macOS 17 00:00:40,079 --> 00:00:42,559 and running Windows 11 in a VM. Listen 18 00:00:42,559 --> 00:00:45,059 in as Scott and Ben shared their take. 19 00:00:47,565 --> 00:00:48,704 Oh, Scott. 20 00:00:49,164 --> 00:00:51,725 It's a Monday. So should we start with 21 00:00:51,965 --> 00:00:54,045 we had talked about this. Should we start 22 00:00:54,045 --> 00:00:54,945 with a 23 00:00:55,405 --> 00:00:57,484 knee jerk reaction I made the other day 24 00:00:57,484 --> 00:00:59,245 that I am going back on, but it 25 00:00:59,245 --> 00:01:00,385 was an interesting 26 00:01:01,164 --> 00:01:02,304 experience nonetheless? 27 00:01:02,700 --> 00:01:04,379 Sure. Let's do it. Let's see if we 28 00:01:04,379 --> 00:01:06,319 can get Randy Ben going. Surface 29 00:01:06,700 --> 00:01:07,200 Copilot 30 00:01:07,900 --> 00:01:10,479 or Surface Pro Plus Copilot PC. 31 00:01:11,500 --> 00:01:14,000 I have gotten angry at Teams lately, 32 00:01:14,555 --> 00:01:16,494 speaking of Rancy Ben, because 33 00:01:17,034 --> 00:01:19,454 Teams on my Mac has had some 34 00:01:19,915 --> 00:01:20,415 super 35 00:01:21,034 --> 00:01:21,534 weird 36 00:01:22,075 --> 00:01:24,555 audio issues. And even like today As it 37 00:01:24,555 --> 00:01:25,055 does. 38 00:01:25,994 --> 00:01:28,494 Yeah. I have joined in the browser because 39 00:01:29,320 --> 00:01:30,140 if I am 40 00:01:31,079 --> 00:01:33,159 I will say I have to just leave 41 00:01:33,159 --> 00:01:35,480 my team's audio settings on my desktop client 42 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:37,159 set the way they are. Because if I 43 00:01:37,159 --> 00:01:39,159 go in and try to change cameras or 44 00:01:39,159 --> 00:01:42,075 change audio devices or anything of the sort, 45 00:01:42,394 --> 00:01:44,875 Teams freezes and crashes and just all around 46 00:01:44,875 --> 00:01:46,875 blows up on me. Super odd because it 47 00:01:46,875 --> 00:01:49,534 happens on both my laptop and my desktop, 48 00:01:49,754 --> 00:01:50,814 both Mac OS. 49 00:01:51,114 --> 00:01:52,875 I have some theories. I have a case 50 00:01:52,875 --> 00:01:53,854 open with Microsoft, 51 00:01:54,474 --> 00:01:55,694 but I have no solutions. 52 00:01:56,049 --> 00:01:58,150 I also have been really irritated 53 00:01:58,530 --> 00:01:59,670 with Office 54 00:02:00,290 --> 00:02:03,569 on macOS lately, and I am not alone 55 00:02:03,569 --> 00:02:05,170 with this. I have talked to others where 56 00:02:05,170 --> 00:02:05,670 essentially 57 00:02:06,129 --> 00:02:07,969 like, I have Word, Excel, PowerPoint, all of 58 00:02:07,969 --> 00:02:10,105 those installed on my desktop. I open them 59 00:02:10,105 --> 00:02:12,025 up, and I don't know how it picks 60 00:02:12,025 --> 00:02:14,185 or chooses which tenant I'm logged into, but 61 00:02:14,185 --> 00:02:16,125 I am never logged into 62 00:02:16,425 --> 00:02:18,185 the tenant I want to be. I'll be, 63 00:02:18,185 --> 00:02:20,205 like, logged into a client tenant. 64 00:02:20,504 --> 00:02:22,685 I'll be logged into a different client tenant. 65 00:02:23,145 --> 00:02:23,305 I 66 00:02:24,020 --> 00:02:25,699 like, I get logged into all these different 67 00:02:25,699 --> 00:02:26,599 tenants, and 68 00:02:27,300 --> 00:02:28,680 Office on Windows 69 00:02:29,219 --> 00:02:31,300 has the ability to go in and switch 70 00:02:31,300 --> 00:02:34,819 accounts. So it's super straightforward and simple. You 71 00:02:34,819 --> 00:02:37,094 go to, like, your info tab or your 72 00:02:37,094 --> 00:02:39,175 accounts tab and say, I want to go 73 00:02:39,175 --> 00:02:41,894 use my Intelligent account. MacOS has no such 74 00:02:41,894 --> 00:02:45,014 thing. The only way I have heard of 75 00:02:45,014 --> 00:02:45,514 to 76 00:02:45,894 --> 00:02:48,375 resolve this is to go, like, log out 77 00:02:48,375 --> 00:02:50,715 of all my Office 365 tenants 78 00:02:51,094 --> 00:02:53,790 in macOS and delete stuff and delete any 79 00:02:53,790 --> 00:02:56,610 safe credentials and, like, it's an ordeal, 80 00:02:56,990 --> 00:02:58,750 and then go sign back into them, but 81 00:02:58,750 --> 00:03:01,009 sign into them in a very specific order 82 00:03:01,150 --> 00:03:02,689 and hope that it sticks. 83 00:03:02,990 --> 00:03:04,750 If it doesn't stick, the only way to 84 00:03:04,750 --> 00:03:06,030 fix it is to go do it all 85 00:03:06,030 --> 00:03:08,254 over again. It's the most deterministic thing in 86 00:03:08,254 --> 00:03:10,334 computer science. Cross your fingers and hope it 87 00:03:10,334 --> 00:03:10,834 sticks. 88 00:03:11,694 --> 00:03:13,474 Yes. But this should not be an issue. 89 00:03:13,534 --> 00:03:16,094 I should especially, my macOS is set up 90 00:03:16,094 --> 00:03:18,735 with the macOS, the SSO for macOS for 91 00:03:18,735 --> 00:03:20,675 Office 365, which is SSOed 92 00:03:21,055 --> 00:03:22,590 with my intelligent tenant. 93 00:03:22,909 --> 00:03:25,150 Why do my Office applications think I should 94 00:03:25,150 --> 00:03:26,830 be using a client tenant instead of my 95 00:03:26,830 --> 00:03:29,469 own? There's Ranti Ben. All this said, I 96 00:03:29,469 --> 00:03:31,469 was like, you know what? I'm mad at 97 00:03:31,469 --> 00:03:31,969 macOS. 98 00:03:32,830 --> 00:03:33,330 I 99 00:03:33,949 --> 00:03:36,430 it's driving me absolutely nuts. You're mad at 100 00:03:36,430 --> 00:03:36,930 Microsoft 101 00:03:37,514 --> 00:03:38,574 Software on macOS. 102 00:03:38,954 --> 00:03:41,375 Yes. I met at Microsoft Software on macOS. 103 00:03:41,674 --> 00:03:44,235 And let's be fair, 90% of my day 104 00:03:44,235 --> 00:03:46,974 is spent in Microsoft software, and 105 00:03:47,354 --> 00:03:49,775 all of my clients and work is primarily 106 00:03:49,914 --> 00:03:52,680 revolves around Microsoft software. I said, hey. There's 107 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,159 this new Surface Pro running Copilot and ARM 108 00:03:55,159 --> 00:03:55,659 Processors, 109 00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:57,819 and I know I can run 110 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:00,379 Windows on macOS and Parallels. 111 00:04:00,919 --> 00:04:01,419 But 112 00:04:01,719 --> 00:04:04,060 after 13 years, would I be better served 113 00:04:04,354 --> 00:04:05,735 just running Windows natively 114 00:04:06,114 --> 00:04:08,995 on a Surface Pro? And I've always thought 115 00:04:08,995 --> 00:04:10,514 about this. Like, this has always been at 116 00:04:10,514 --> 00:04:12,034 the back of my head. I like the 117 00:04:12,034 --> 00:04:13,094 writing experience 118 00:04:13,794 --> 00:04:16,454 on Surface Pros. I like having the whole 119 00:04:16,514 --> 00:04:18,959 OneNote pen and not if I wanna write, 120 00:04:18,959 --> 00:04:20,420 having to pull up my iPad 121 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:21,300 or 122 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:23,680 if I'm in the meeting and I wanna 123 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,800 handwrite, bringing it, like, mirroring my iPad over, 124 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,040 getting my iPad input. There's ways I could 125 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:30,879 do it. Like, you know what? Maybe I 126 00:04:30,879 --> 00:04:33,024 could do a Surface Pro, so I bought 127 00:04:33,024 --> 00:04:34,704 one. I bought one of the Surface Pro. 128 00:04:34,704 --> 00:04:36,884 I think they're 11s. They're the whole Copilot 129 00:04:37,185 --> 00:04:39,264 plus Surface Pro ones. And I was like, 130 00:04:39,264 --> 00:04:40,625 you know what? If I like it, I 131 00:04:40,625 --> 00:04:41,444 want to 132 00:04:41,985 --> 00:04:42,485 really 133 00:04:42,785 --> 00:04:44,004 I want it to have 134 00:04:44,625 --> 00:04:47,610 the horsepower that I would need. So I 135 00:04:47,610 --> 00:04:48,750 bought the 64 136 00:04:49,449 --> 00:04:51,949 gigs of RAM, the top of the line 137 00:04:52,090 --> 00:04:54,670 ARM Processor, the snap dry is it Snapdragon 138 00:04:55,050 --> 00:04:58,650 11? Yeah. Whatever the highest processor I could 139 00:04:58,650 --> 00:05:00,750 get of the Snapdragon ARM Processors, 140 00:05:01,354 --> 00:05:03,514 It's not cheap. Like, it still ended up 141 00:05:03,514 --> 00:05:05,454 just shy of $3, 142 00:05:05,995 --> 00:05:08,654 and I used that for a week exclusively. 143 00:05:08,954 --> 00:05:11,354 I was like, I'm like, I unplugged all 144 00:05:11,354 --> 00:05:13,595 my external monitors. I plugged everything into the 145 00:05:13,595 --> 00:05:16,350 Copilot or the Surface Pro. I use the 146 00:05:16,350 --> 00:05:19,329 Surface Pro instead of my MacBook Pro. 147 00:05:19,949 --> 00:05:23,229 I have enough horsepower here. I'm just going 148 00:05:23,229 --> 00:05:25,229 to use this for a week in my 149 00:05:25,229 --> 00:05:26,610 day to day workflow and 150 00:05:28,125 --> 00:05:30,365 see if I can do this, if this 151 00:05:30,365 --> 00:05:31,985 is something I want 152 00:05:32,845 --> 00:05:35,665 to switch to, or if it's going to 153 00:05:36,205 --> 00:05:39,645 drive me crazy. And I will 100% admit 154 00:05:39,645 --> 00:05:41,585 it was a little bit of emotional decision 155 00:05:41,970 --> 00:05:44,370 because I was so irritated with the Microsoft 156 00:05:44,370 --> 00:05:46,529 apps on macOS. It's not a bad idea. 157 00:05:46,529 --> 00:05:48,050 So I I've been telling you for a 158 00:05:48,050 --> 00:05:49,110 long time that 159 00:05:49,490 --> 00:05:50,310 your experience, 160 00:05:50,850 --> 00:05:52,870 I and I I still believe this, 161 00:05:53,250 --> 00:05:56,129 would be better on Windows given kinda the 162 00:05:56,129 --> 00:05:58,504 cohort of customers you work with and your 163 00:05:58,504 --> 00:06:00,224 day to day work. So I get that 164 00:06:00,345 --> 00:06:02,365 Yep. There's cross platform apps. 165 00:06:02,985 --> 00:06:03,884 So in your world, 166 00:06:04,264 --> 00:06:06,344 writing like a PowerShell script for a customer 167 00:06:06,344 --> 00:06:07,084 for migration. 168 00:06:07,464 --> 00:06:09,644 Can you do that on your Mac? Absolutely. 169 00:06:09,784 --> 00:06:13,529 But from an Office client perspective for things 170 00:06:13,529 --> 00:06:14,670 like Teams 171 00:06:16,250 --> 00:06:16,990 and Outlook, 172 00:06:17,370 --> 00:06:19,610 like the Monarch client, right, which isn't even 173 00:06:19,610 --> 00:06:22,089 available on Mac yet, but is pushed pretty 174 00:06:22,089 --> 00:06:24,730 heavily on Windows. Yeah. Even things like the 175 00:06:24,730 --> 00:06:26,384 OneDrive client, like, just 176 00:06:26,865 --> 00:06:29,904 availability of APIs for file system sync and 177 00:06:29,904 --> 00:06:31,345 things like that are different on the Windows 178 00:06:31,345 --> 00:06:32,944 side, so your experience can be a little 179 00:06:32,944 --> 00:06:35,665 bit better. So what I do is I 180 00:06:35,665 --> 00:06:37,425 like to have my cake and eat it 181 00:06:37,425 --> 00:06:38,645 too, where 182 00:06:40,259 --> 00:06:43,300 my day is spent in Windows. Right? I'd 183 00:06:43,300 --> 00:06:46,420 I'd work in Azure, and I'm primarily there 184 00:06:46,420 --> 00:06:47,160 all the time. 185 00:06:47,540 --> 00:06:48,520 That being said, 186 00:06:49,300 --> 00:06:52,834 I do everything in a virtual machine. So 187 00:06:52,894 --> 00:06:53,795 we're on Macs. 188 00:06:54,415 --> 00:06:55,714 There is an official 189 00:06:56,095 --> 00:06:56,595 provider 190 00:06:56,975 --> 00:07:00,254 for or there's there there's Parallels as a 191 00:07:00,254 --> 00:07:02,014 company, so they make a product called Parallels 192 00:07:02,014 --> 00:07:04,435 dot desktop. It's like, VMware 193 00:07:05,789 --> 00:07:08,289 Fusion or things like that. It's a local 194 00:07:08,349 --> 00:07:08,849 virtualization 195 00:07:09,229 --> 00:07:09,729 engine, 196 00:07:10,269 --> 00:07:13,149 but it is the official engine for being 197 00:07:13,149 --> 00:07:16,449 able to run Windows 11 for ARM 198 00:07:17,550 --> 00:07:18,689 on Apple Silicon. 199 00:07:19,024 --> 00:07:20,545 So you can get the best of both 200 00:07:20,545 --> 00:07:22,384 worlds where you run your Mac and then 201 00:07:22,384 --> 00:07:24,884 you run your Windows stuff in Windows. 202 00:07:25,504 --> 00:07:28,805 Of course, all predicated and gated on the 203 00:07:29,185 --> 00:07:29,685 available 204 00:07:30,625 --> 00:07:31,125 resources 205 00:07:31,425 --> 00:07:32,564 on your machine. 206 00:07:33,050 --> 00:07:35,529 So what's my CPU? What's my RAM? Things 207 00:07:35,529 --> 00:07:36,970 like that. So, like, I do most of 208 00:07:36,970 --> 00:07:38,029 my day to day on 209 00:07:39,290 --> 00:07:41,610 what is, like, a laptop. I just don't 210 00:07:41,689 --> 00:07:43,210 can't see the end of the road for 211 00:07:43,610 --> 00:07:45,930 I'm on an M1 MacBook Pro, and not 212 00:07:45,930 --> 00:07:47,389 even the fanciest processor, 213 00:07:47,735 --> 00:07:49,975 and I've got 32 gigs of RAM. And 214 00:07:49,975 --> 00:07:51,735 I go through most of my day, like, 215 00:07:51,735 --> 00:07:53,654 allocating 20 gigs of RAM to a virtual 216 00:07:53,654 --> 00:07:56,294 machine, and I do everything in that sucker, 217 00:07:56,294 --> 00:07:58,615 all my Power BI reports. That's where my 218 00:07:58,615 --> 00:08:00,935 work email is. That's where Teams is for 219 00:08:00,935 --> 00:08:03,560 work, all those things. And it does camera 220 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:05,720 pass through, USB pass through, all those kinds 221 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:07,160 of things I need. And then I'm good, 222 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,139 and then I don't need that separate device 223 00:08:10,279 --> 00:08:10,779 necessarily. 224 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,520 But what's really funny to me is I've 225 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:16,939 gone out and demoed some of the Copilot 226 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,164 Plus PCs. So there's the Surface ones. 227 00:08:20,704 --> 00:08:21,604 There's also 228 00:08:22,544 --> 00:08:23,284 some from 229 00:08:23,584 --> 00:08:25,824 I I think Dell's got some. HP's got 230 00:08:25,824 --> 00:08:26,324 some. 231 00:08:26,704 --> 00:08:28,084 Samsung has some. 232 00:08:28,464 --> 00:08:30,944 But the experience in power parallels as a 233 00:08:30,944 --> 00:08:34,440 virtual machine, at least, like, my anecdotal experience, 234 00:08:34,899 --> 00:08:37,079 is it almost runs better in a VM 235 00:08:37,459 --> 00:08:39,459 than it does on a desktop, and there's 236 00:08:39,459 --> 00:08:41,480 no or laptop, like, a dedicated, 237 00:08:41,860 --> 00:08:44,279 hey, thing that's out there. So 238 00:08:44,875 --> 00:08:46,315 that that tends to be what I just 239 00:08:46,315 --> 00:08:48,074 keep coming back to. It's just I'll keep 240 00:08:48,074 --> 00:08:51,615 running Windows as a virtual thing. 241 00:08:51,995 --> 00:08:53,514 I'm not gonna worry about it too much. 242 00:08:53,514 --> 00:08:54,654 And then where I can, 243 00:08:55,034 --> 00:08:57,034 I'm starting to go more and more into 244 00:08:57,034 --> 00:08:58,529 the, like, AVD 245 00:08:58,830 --> 00:09:01,470 DevBox world side of things, where, hey, if 246 00:09:01,470 --> 00:09:03,710 I need a beefier machine than this that's 247 00:09:03,710 --> 00:09:07,009 going to run a pure x86 workload, well, 248 00:09:07,149 --> 00:09:08,429 let me just go spin that up in 249 00:09:08,429 --> 00:09:09,809 a virtual machine someplace 250 00:09:10,225 --> 00:09:11,825 in the cloud where I've got a bunch 251 00:09:11,825 --> 00:09:14,544 of providers and, a bunch of different CPU 252 00:09:14,544 --> 00:09:16,544 types and things like that, and I can 253 00:09:16,544 --> 00:09:17,664 go ahead and test that. And I can 254 00:09:17,664 --> 00:09:19,105 even do that in the cloud today with 255 00:09:19,105 --> 00:09:21,745 things like Windows on ARM, so you can 256 00:09:21,745 --> 00:09:22,485 spin up. 257 00:09:22,899 --> 00:09:24,440 You've got Ampere processors, 258 00:09:26,100 --> 00:09:28,980 and you also have the new ish, the 259 00:09:28,980 --> 00:09:31,240 Cobalt series, which is Microsoft's 260 00:09:31,620 --> 00:09:32,600 ARM designed 261 00:09:33,059 --> 00:09:35,460 system on a chip, and all that stuff 262 00:09:35,460 --> 00:09:36,919 is up and available 263 00:09:37,615 --> 00:09:39,375 in Azure today. So you can spin up 264 00:09:39,375 --> 00:09:40,975 an Ampere. I I forget what the VM 265 00:09:40,975 --> 00:09:42,735 series are for those. But then you've got, 266 00:09:42,735 --> 00:09:43,955 like, the Cobalt 100, 267 00:09:44,495 --> 00:09:46,735 which just went GA in, like, the last 268 00:09:46,735 --> 00:09:48,654 week or 2 and are out there and 269 00:09:48,654 --> 00:09:51,440 readily available. So if you do have to 270 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,220 run even a virtualized 271 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,600 ARM 64 workload on Windows, totally possible to 272 00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:59,860 do in things like Azure today. 273 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:01,759 And I imagine you could do the same 274 00:10:01,759 --> 00:10:03,745 in other cloud providers as well. I don't 275 00:10:03,745 --> 00:10:05,045 know though. I'd have to go. 276 00:10:08,705 --> 00:10:10,865 Do you feel overwhelmed by trying to manage 277 00:10:10,865 --> 00:10:14,085 your Office 365 environment? Are you facing unexpected 278 00:10:14,305 --> 00:10:16,485 issues that disrupt your company's productivity? 279 00:10:16,839 --> 00:10:18,679 Intelligink is here to help. Much like you 280 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:20,600 take your car to the mechanic that has 281 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:22,679 specialized knowledge on how to best keep your 282 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:25,720 car running, Intelligink helps you with your Microsoft 283 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:27,980 cloud environment because that's their expertise. 284 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:30,679 Intelligink keeps up with the latest updates in 285 00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:32,855 the Microsoft cloud to help keep your business 286 00:10:32,855 --> 00:10:35,095 running smoothly and ahead of the curve. Whether 287 00:10:35,095 --> 00:10:37,095 you are a small organization with just a 288 00:10:37,095 --> 00:10:39,575 few users up to an organization of several 289 00:10:39,575 --> 00:10:40,554 1000 employees, 290 00:10:40,934 --> 00:10:42,934 they want to partner with you to implement 291 00:10:42,934 --> 00:10:43,674 and administer 292 00:10:43,975 --> 00:10:45,674 your Microsoft Cloud technology. 293 00:10:46,375 --> 00:10:47,769 Visit them atintelliginc.com/podcast. 294 00:10:50,149 --> 00:10:50,649 That's 295 00:10:51,429 --> 00:10:51,929 intelligink.com/podcast 296 00:10:57,350 --> 00:10:59,429 for more information or to schedule a 30 297 00:10:59,429 --> 00:11:01,529 minute call to get started with them today. 298 00:11:01,750 --> 00:11:05,165 Remember, intelligent focuses on the Microsoft cloud so 299 00:11:05,165 --> 00:11:06,865 you can focus on your business. 300 00:11:09,165 --> 00:11:09,985 So, ultimately, 301 00:11:10,524 --> 00:11:11,424 end of the story 302 00:11:11,725 --> 00:11:14,065 ish, and we can talk about my experiences. 303 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:15,420 I haven't returned 304 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,840 it yet, but I did start the return 305 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:20,139 process for the 306 00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:23,399 the return barcodes, all of those, because I 307 00:11:23,399 --> 00:11:25,480 think that's where I'm going to end up 308 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,745 going. Again, I've used parallels on my Max 309 00:11:28,884 --> 00:11:31,464 a little bit, and I would say 310 00:11:31,924 --> 00:11:32,585 I was 311 00:11:32,964 --> 00:11:36,504 I don't want to truth be told, for 312 00:11:36,725 --> 00:11:39,044 me, I plugged it in. I set it 313 00:11:39,044 --> 00:11:41,940 on my desk. I was driving a 43 314 00:11:41,940 --> 00:11:44,019 inch 4 k monitor off of it, a 315 00:11:44,019 --> 00:11:46,740 27 inch monitor running 10 80 p, a 316 00:11:46,740 --> 00:11:47,240 teleprompter 317 00:11:47,620 --> 00:11:50,100 that I think is running 10 80 p 318 00:11:50,100 --> 00:11:52,440 or slightly under, all my webcams, 319 00:11:52,740 --> 00:11:54,820 the road caster. I think we did 320 00:11:55,394 --> 00:11:57,315 I can't remember. I don't we didn't record 321 00:11:57,315 --> 00:11:59,955 a podcast on it, but I did meetings 322 00:11:59,955 --> 00:12:03,014 on it. I will say from a pure 323 00:12:03,315 --> 00:12:04,455 performance perspective, 324 00:12:04,915 --> 00:12:07,254 I was super impressed with 325 00:12:07,649 --> 00:12:08,389 the speed 326 00:12:08,769 --> 00:12:11,490 of the Surface Pro, especially for just having 327 00:12:11,490 --> 00:12:14,289 an ARM tablet that was driving all of 328 00:12:14,289 --> 00:12:16,230 my monitors, all of my devices. 329 00:12:16,769 --> 00:12:20,069 It worked really well, and I had 330 00:12:20,684 --> 00:12:23,264 I actually don't think I had any complaints 331 00:12:23,725 --> 00:12:24,865 about the Surface 332 00:12:25,565 --> 00:12:29,085 Pro itself. If I was in the Windows 333 00:12:29,085 --> 00:12:29,585 ecosystem, 334 00:12:30,285 --> 00:12:32,465 there's a chance I would have kept it. 335 00:12:32,605 --> 00:12:34,879 What it came down to for me, one, 336 00:12:34,879 --> 00:12:37,200 I can't stand the Monarch client. You're gonna 337 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:38,879 have to learn to love it. Hey. It 338 00:12:38,879 --> 00:12:40,639 is what it is. Which I'm gonna have 339 00:12:40,639 --> 00:12:41,779 to learn here eventually 340 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:44,399 because one of the things I found with 341 00:12:44,399 --> 00:12:47,120 that as my daily driver, I the here's 342 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:48,960 the big feature missing for me, combined in 343 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,955 boxes. I have 8 different Office 365 accounts 344 00:12:52,955 --> 00:12:53,774 in my Outlook, 345 00:12:54,154 --> 00:12:55,995 and I don't want to have to jump 346 00:12:55,995 --> 00:12:57,995 to 8 different inboxes to check them. If 347 00:12:57,995 --> 00:12:59,674 I wanted to do that, I'd frankly just 348 00:12:59,674 --> 00:13:02,070 use the browser instead of the desktop client 349 00:13:02,230 --> 00:13:03,590 because at that point in time, it's no 350 00:13:03,590 --> 00:13:05,590 different for me. MacOS, I have my combined 351 00:13:05,590 --> 00:13:07,350 inbox. I can look inbox and see all 352 00:13:07,350 --> 00:13:09,990 of my inboxes, all my email combined, and 353 00:13:09,990 --> 00:13:12,009 manage it all. That for me, 354 00:13:12,389 --> 00:13:13,210 way easier 355 00:13:13,590 --> 00:13:14,090 on 356 00:13:14,470 --> 00:13:14,970 macOS. 357 00:13:15,475 --> 00:13:15,975 And 358 00:13:16,914 --> 00:13:18,375 there was some things 359 00:13:18,835 --> 00:13:21,254 what else was I just thinking of? Oh, 360 00:13:21,394 --> 00:13:23,634 some of it is stupid. I say stupid 361 00:13:23,634 --> 00:13:25,235 stuff, but it made a big deal. I 362 00:13:25,235 --> 00:13:28,459 love my clipboard manager on macOS. And as 363 00:13:28,459 --> 00:13:30,459 I switch between devices, being able to see 364 00:13:30,459 --> 00:13:33,019 my clipboard history, I couldn't find one that 365 00:13:33,019 --> 00:13:35,259 even came close on Windows. Could I get 366 00:13:35,259 --> 00:13:36,639 around that? Absolutely. 367 00:13:36,940 --> 00:13:39,279 I found a clipboard manager. It worked okay. 368 00:13:39,419 --> 00:13:42,215 I was able to find workarounds for everything. 369 00:13:42,355 --> 00:13:44,674 Where I landed on it was, like I 370 00:13:44,674 --> 00:13:45,654 said, it was $3,000 371 00:13:46,595 --> 00:13:48,835 for the device with all the taxes and 372 00:13:48,835 --> 00:13:50,934 everything. And did it improve 373 00:13:51,795 --> 00:13:52,615 my efficiency 374 00:13:52,915 --> 00:13:53,735 with work 375 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:54,980 to make the 376 00:13:55,519 --> 00:13:57,279 $3,000 worth it? Did I feel that much 377 00:13:57,279 --> 00:13:59,919 more productive in gaining that much benefit out 378 00:13:59,919 --> 00:14:02,399 of it? Not really. Like you'd said, I 379 00:14:02,399 --> 00:14:04,019 can go do parallels. 380 00:14:04,799 --> 00:14:06,480 I've played with it, but I've never done 381 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:08,000 what you did, Scott. I think this is 382 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,375 my next test. It probably should have been 383 00:14:10,375 --> 00:14:11,815 my first test before I went and bought 384 00:14:11,815 --> 00:14:13,495 the device, but like I said, it was 385 00:14:13,495 --> 00:14:15,595 an emotional decision. I think it was valid 386 00:14:15,654 --> 00:14:17,754 by hardware. Right? And 387 00:14:18,055 --> 00:14:20,555 lean in and see what's there. 388 00:14:21,029 --> 00:14:23,669 So hardware aside, there's lots of companies that 389 00:14:23,669 --> 00:14:25,829 make nice hardware, but like you said, software 390 00:14:25,829 --> 00:14:28,629 is individual decisions and things like that. I 391 00:14:28,629 --> 00:14:31,209 think some of it is you're potentially being 392 00:14:31,509 --> 00:14:33,669 a little too cult like about it. Like, 393 00:14:33,669 --> 00:14:35,110 you you're not gonna be able to get 394 00:14:35,110 --> 00:14:37,004 away from the client. Like, the day that 395 00:14:37,004 --> 00:14:38,924 they drop that on the Mac is a 396 00:14:38,924 --> 00:14:40,684 very sad day for you, and you're not 397 00:14:40,684 --> 00:14:43,004 gonna be prepared for it be because you've 398 00:14:43,004 --> 00:14:43,504 been 399 00:14:43,884 --> 00:14:46,125 living your life a certain way. I think 400 00:14:46,125 --> 00:14:49,644 solutions like parallels give you a bridge to 401 00:14:49,644 --> 00:14:51,779 get there. Right? So, like, in your world 402 00:14:51,779 --> 00:14:53,620 where the majority of things that you run 403 00:14:53,620 --> 00:14:54,440 on Windows, 404 00:14:56,179 --> 00:14:58,419 but you still want maybe, like, Outlook on 405 00:14:58,419 --> 00:15:00,500 the Mac, well, just run the rest of 406 00:15:00,500 --> 00:15:02,820 your workloads in Windows and Parallels does this 407 00:15:02,820 --> 00:15:04,774 nifty thing. They call it, 408 00:15:05,794 --> 00:15:08,115 cohesion. Coherence. Coherence. Yeah. I was gonna say 409 00:15:08,514 --> 00:15:09,254 Yeah. Coherence. 410 00:15:09,714 --> 00:15:12,214 But coherence lets you go from like a 411 00:15:12,595 --> 00:15:13,095 windowed 412 00:15:13,875 --> 00:15:17,235 desktop environment, so running my entire VM in 413 00:15:17,235 --> 00:15:19,589 a single window kind of thing, to breaking 414 00:15:19,589 --> 00:15:21,929 out the Windows into effectively 415 00:15:23,110 --> 00:15:26,389 more native Windows in the macOS experience. So 416 00:15:26,389 --> 00:15:28,230 in that world, you could have, like, Outlook 417 00:15:28,230 --> 00:15:29,450 in a window here 418 00:15:29,830 --> 00:15:32,215 running Outlook from your Mac, And then right 419 00:15:32,215 --> 00:15:34,215 next to it, you could have Teams, but 420 00:15:34,215 --> 00:15:35,195 that's Teams 421 00:15:35,815 --> 00:15:36,315 from 422 00:15:36,934 --> 00:15:40,294 your Parallels virtual desktop that's running just side 423 00:15:40,294 --> 00:15:42,054 by side. And you can even make it. 424 00:15:42,054 --> 00:15:43,975 So, like, when you click a a link 425 00:15:43,975 --> 00:15:45,754 to, say, join a Teams meeting 426 00:15:46,289 --> 00:15:48,870 in Outlook on your Mac, that it actually 427 00:15:49,009 --> 00:15:52,950 opens Teams and responds to Teams in parallels. 428 00:15:53,570 --> 00:15:55,110 So you can do, like, redirection 429 00:15:55,730 --> 00:15:57,889 and all those kinds of things as needed 430 00:15:57,889 --> 00:16:00,245 as well because you can expose the applications 431 00:16:00,464 --> 00:16:02,945 that are installed from your this is one 432 00:16:02,945 --> 00:16:05,024 of the other nifty things Parallels does, is 433 00:16:05,024 --> 00:16:07,745 it lets you expose the applications that are 434 00:16:07,745 --> 00:16:10,004 installed in your virtual environment 435 00:16:10,544 --> 00:16:12,644 all the way back to your host OS. 436 00:16:13,009 --> 00:16:15,090 So, like, when I go in and say 437 00:16:15,090 --> 00:16:16,929 I do, like, spotlight search, right, you do, 438 00:16:16,929 --> 00:16:18,450 like, command space on a Mac and you 439 00:16:18,450 --> 00:16:19,669 go to launch an application, 440 00:16:20,210 --> 00:16:21,509 all of my Parallels 441 00:16:22,049 --> 00:16:24,789 installed applications, say, like Power BI 442 00:16:25,250 --> 00:16:27,835 or Teams on Windows, things like that, those 443 00:16:27,835 --> 00:16:30,575 all show up in my native macOS launcher, 444 00:16:30,634 --> 00:16:32,815 like spacebar. In my case, I use Raycast. 445 00:16:33,034 --> 00:16:35,195 Doesn't matter whatever your launcher is. It'll just 446 00:16:35,195 --> 00:16:36,554 be there ready to go, and you can 447 00:16:36,554 --> 00:16:38,394 just double click and and be up and 448 00:16:38,394 --> 00:16:39,615 running super fast. 449 00:16:40,110 --> 00:16:43,070 Super easy to access data across both of 450 00:16:43,070 --> 00:16:45,230 those as well. So I know sometimes there's, 451 00:16:45,230 --> 00:16:46,909 like, things that I have in Dropbox where 452 00:16:46,909 --> 00:16:48,029 I'm, like, oh, I need that out of 453 00:16:48,029 --> 00:16:49,789 Dropbox, and I need it over in Windows 454 00:16:49,789 --> 00:16:51,950 here. There's some stuff that, like, only plays 455 00:16:51,950 --> 00:16:52,850 nice in Windows, 456 00:16:53,470 --> 00:16:56,075 and it's just tangentially work related. 457 00:16:56,535 --> 00:16:57,894 If I want to file like a medical 458 00:16:57,894 --> 00:17:00,375 claim through like my healthcare provider, like that 459 00:17:00,375 --> 00:17:02,615 stuff is just way easier in a browser 460 00:17:02,615 --> 00:17:04,695 on Windows, and it renders the PDFs right 461 00:17:04,695 --> 00:17:06,615 and everything, and like they're built in blah, 462 00:17:06,615 --> 00:17:09,039 blah, blah, crappy little web control. So I 463 00:17:09,039 --> 00:17:10,339 just do all that through 464 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:11,220 Parallels 465 00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:13,119 and run things that way. But it's super 466 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:14,880 easy. Just drag and drop, go back and 467 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:15,380 forth, 468 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:16,960 all all that kind of stuff. And then 469 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:18,980 the reason I've primarily done Parallels 470 00:17:19,279 --> 00:17:19,779 is 471 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,764 because I want the local resource usage for 472 00:17:23,764 --> 00:17:25,845 things. Like, you mentioned having your RODEcaster. Right? 473 00:17:25,845 --> 00:17:27,524 So we both have these microphones in front 474 00:17:27,524 --> 00:17:28,644 of us, and I just will hop on 475 00:17:28,644 --> 00:17:31,625 even, like, formal Teams meetings with these microphones 476 00:17:32,005 --> 00:17:33,704 or with going through the RODEcaster, 477 00:17:34,085 --> 00:17:36,325 and and you need the USB audio interface. 478 00:17:36,325 --> 00:17:38,565 So, like, we're coming from XLR mics, things 479 00:17:38,565 --> 00:17:39,224 like that, 480 00:17:39,660 --> 00:17:42,619 or fancy webcams, like, typically, those are gonna 481 00:17:42,619 --> 00:17:45,100 go best running into a local resource rather 482 00:17:45,100 --> 00:17:48,160 than through something like a remote desktop connection. 483 00:17:48,700 --> 00:17:51,279 And I think that's traditionally been the case 484 00:17:51,595 --> 00:17:52,335 up until 485 00:17:52,795 --> 00:17:54,015 quite, quite recently. 486 00:17:54,555 --> 00:17:56,475 So I've tended to go that way. The 487 00:17:56,475 --> 00:17:58,075 other thing that I'm playing around with more 488 00:17:58,075 --> 00:17:59,755 and more is one of the folks on 489 00:17:59,755 --> 00:18:01,115 my team has been playing around with dev 490 00:18:01,115 --> 00:18:01,615 boxes 491 00:18:02,154 --> 00:18:03,914 quite a bit and, like, some of the 492 00:18:03,914 --> 00:18:05,055 new stuff in 493 00:18:05,519 --> 00:18:08,019 MMR, the multi multimedia redirection 494 00:18:09,279 --> 00:18:12,240 for remote desktop now has gotten super slick 495 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,559 as well, where you almost can't tell the 496 00:18:14,559 --> 00:18:16,160 difference as long as the host on the 497 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:18,799 other side has enough resources to keep up 498 00:18:18,799 --> 00:18:20,640 with all the local direction and things like 499 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,095 that. So I can almost see a day 500 00:18:23,095 --> 00:18:23,595 where, 501 00:18:24,055 --> 00:18:26,214 theoretically, as long as I'm sitting here at 502 00:18:26,214 --> 00:18:27,894 my desk and I'm always connected to the 503 00:18:27,894 --> 00:18:29,815 Internet, I can almost just turn my Mac 504 00:18:29,815 --> 00:18:31,815 into a thin client and just remote desktop 505 00:18:31,815 --> 00:18:33,835 to everything as well for my Windows workloads. 506 00:18:34,170 --> 00:18:36,250 I'm playing with that, and I'm curious. I 507 00:18:36,250 --> 00:18:38,090 know we've talked about this a little bit. 508 00:18:38,090 --> 00:18:40,970 Sorry. I'm jumping around. The biggest thing I 509 00:18:40,970 --> 00:18:43,130 run into is, like you said, you're it's 510 00:18:43,130 --> 00:18:43,789 the Rodecaster, 511 00:18:44,170 --> 00:18:46,809 and I have a speakerphone that I use 512 00:18:46,809 --> 00:18:47,630 here sometimes. 513 00:18:48,315 --> 00:18:50,714 When I look at my audio devices on 514 00:18:50,714 --> 00:18:51,214 macOS, 515 00:18:51,674 --> 00:18:52,494 I have 516 00:18:53,034 --> 00:18:53,534 20 517 00:18:53,914 --> 00:18:57,375 different audio inputs, 20 different audio outputs. 518 00:18:57,835 --> 00:18:58,815 That's not 519 00:18:59,115 --> 00:18:59,615 necessarily, 520 00:19:01,355 --> 00:19:02,734 I would say, normal usage. 521 00:19:03,169 --> 00:19:06,289 Most people don't have that many different audio 522 00:19:06,289 --> 00:19:06,789 devices 523 00:19:07,250 --> 00:19:09,890 plugged into their computer where they're jumping between 524 00:19:09,890 --> 00:19:12,769 them regularly, and that's been one thing I've 525 00:19:12,769 --> 00:19:15,009 struggled with a little bit. It's easier with 526 00:19:15,009 --> 00:19:17,750 parallels. For me, it's still hard with 527 00:19:18,464 --> 00:19:18,964 the 528 00:19:19,664 --> 00:19:22,164 DevBox or with the Windows 365 529 00:19:23,105 --> 00:19:23,924 Cloud PCs 530 00:19:24,384 --> 00:19:26,304 is when it comes to a lot of 531 00:19:26,304 --> 00:19:28,785 that device redirection, it's just the default device. 532 00:19:28,785 --> 00:19:30,724 Whatever you have as your default in macOS. 533 00:19:31,250 --> 00:19:35,110 My default in macOS is actually very rarely 534 00:19:35,330 --> 00:19:36,710 the same device 535 00:19:37,410 --> 00:19:38,470 that I use 536 00:19:39,170 --> 00:19:41,190 for my Teams calls. And 537 00:19:41,570 --> 00:19:43,970 even with Parallels, it's not like I can 538 00:19:43,970 --> 00:19:47,245 have a audio device linked to both of 539 00:19:47,245 --> 00:19:49,085 them. You really have to have an audio 540 00:19:49,085 --> 00:19:50,924 device linked to 1 or the other. So 541 00:19:50,924 --> 00:19:52,924 it's just a little bit and this is 542 00:19:52,924 --> 00:19:55,005 just me being picky, but it's a little 543 00:19:55,005 --> 00:19:57,325 bit of work of okay. If I'm gonna 544 00:19:57,325 --> 00:19:59,184 join the Teams meeting in parallels, 545 00:19:59,849 --> 00:20:01,690 which audio devices do I need over there? 546 00:20:01,690 --> 00:20:03,609 Or if I'm going to and if I'm 547 00:20:03,609 --> 00:20:05,230 gonna use the speakerphone versus 548 00:20:05,529 --> 00:20:06,029 the 549 00:20:06,410 --> 00:20:07,710 microphone through the RodeCaster, 550 00:20:08,970 --> 00:20:11,289 how which audio devices do I map over 551 00:20:11,289 --> 00:20:14,005 there? So that's a little bit where some 552 00:20:14,005 --> 00:20:14,644 of my 553 00:20:15,445 --> 00:20:19,225 do I switch to running Windows natively versus 554 00:20:19,365 --> 00:20:21,845 Parallels came in as just like I talked 555 00:20:21,845 --> 00:20:24,809 about some disadvantage with the Copilot PC like 556 00:20:24,890 --> 00:20:27,370 the Monarch client. There are certain things with 557 00:20:27,370 --> 00:20:27,870 parallels 558 00:20:28,410 --> 00:20:31,150 like having to switch audio devices or having 559 00:20:31,769 --> 00:20:34,170 to map a USB key my YubiKey. If 560 00:20:34,170 --> 00:20:35,370 I need that in Windows or if I 561 00:20:35,370 --> 00:20:37,130 need it on macOS based on what I'm 562 00:20:37,130 --> 00:20:37,630 doing, 563 00:20:37,930 --> 00:20:39,549 there is a little bit of 564 00:20:39,904 --> 00:20:42,384 overhead, I guess, you would say there when 565 00:20:42,384 --> 00:20:46,005 it comes to certain hardware devices plugged in 566 00:20:46,065 --> 00:20:47,444 and getting them located 567 00:20:47,904 --> 00:20:50,644 on the parallels VM or on macOS. 568 00:20:51,505 --> 00:20:52,710 But, again, that is 569 00:20:53,190 --> 00:20:54,710 that's where it goes back to the cost 570 00:20:54,710 --> 00:20:57,429 benefit for me. It wasn't worth the cost 571 00:20:57,429 --> 00:20:59,210 of the Copilot PC 572 00:20:59,589 --> 00:21:01,589 to do that. I will say, and this 573 00:21:01,589 --> 00:21:03,909 is a thought I've had, is once I'm 574 00:21:03,909 --> 00:21:05,909 done with my MacBook Pro, like you, it's 575 00:21:05,909 --> 00:21:07,345 an m one. I don't know how long 576 00:21:07,345 --> 00:21:09,265 I've had it. Couple years, 3 years down. 577 00:21:09,345 --> 00:21:11,204 Coming up on 3, 4 years. 578 00:21:11,664 --> 00:21:13,184 Right. And I I don't see the end 579 00:21:13,184 --> 00:21:14,865 in sight for this thing other than the 580 00:21:14,865 --> 00:21:17,505 battery dying. That's an option. Yep. And that's 581 00:21:17,505 --> 00:21:18,944 my thought is I don't see the end 582 00:21:18,944 --> 00:21:20,325 in sight, but would I potentially 583 00:21:20,944 --> 00:21:23,640 do that where my laptop top and my 584 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,940 travel device would maybe be Windows and my 585 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,559 device in the office here where I tend 586 00:21:29,559 --> 00:21:30,940 to do a lot of the 587 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:33,740 podcast recording, video editing, 588 00:21:34,360 --> 00:21:35,259 all of that 589 00:21:35,775 --> 00:21:38,255 stay as macOS? That's something else that I've 590 00:21:38,255 --> 00:21:39,695 toyed with in the back of my head 591 00:21:39,695 --> 00:21:42,015 is would I go that route? Again, going 592 00:21:42,015 --> 00:21:44,195 back to I like both devices. 593 00:21:44,654 --> 00:21:46,434 I like my macOS ecosystem. 594 00:21:46,815 --> 00:21:48,414 I like certain apps. I like the way 595 00:21:48,414 --> 00:21:51,640 certain things run, but I didn't have any 596 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:55,019 complaints about the Surface Pro with Copilot 597 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:56,140 either. It's 598 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:57,980 both of them have minor annoyances. 599 00:21:58,440 --> 00:21:58,940 $3,000 600 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,059 did not solve my minor annoyances with macOS. 601 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:03,660 It just created new minor annoyances. 602 00:22:04,115 --> 00:22:05,894 Not worth it at this point in time, 603 00:22:05,955 --> 00:22:08,755 but very well maybe in the future, I 604 00:22:08,755 --> 00:22:11,335 think. I can see. I think it's worth 605 00:22:11,394 --> 00:22:12,615 revisiting this stuff 606 00:22:13,154 --> 00:22:15,015 as you're going through it. Like, 607 00:22:15,795 --> 00:22:17,315 the other thing that you might have a 608 00:22:17,315 --> 00:22:18,855 better experience with 609 00:22:19,319 --> 00:22:19,819 is 610 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:21,980 there are still limitations 611 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:24,700 to Windows 612 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,599 on ARM today. Like, there especially for, like, 613 00:22:28,599 --> 00:22:31,740 client OS, there's definitely some incompatibilities 614 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:33,980 there, and you have to 615 00:22:34,434 --> 00:22:35,255 discover them 616 00:22:35,875 --> 00:22:36,615 as they 617 00:22:37,555 --> 00:22:39,234 as they come up. Right? There there's a 618 00:22:39,234 --> 00:22:41,234 set of kind of just, hey. I'm ready 619 00:22:41,234 --> 00:22:42,295 to go and optimized 620 00:22:42,835 --> 00:22:43,335 applications 621 00:22:44,035 --> 00:22:46,615 in Windows on ARM, which is, 622 00:22:47,429 --> 00:22:50,069 great, all good, like, native support, and you 623 00:22:50,069 --> 00:22:50,890 can get those 624 00:22:51,429 --> 00:22:54,149 through your regular stores of choice, be it, 625 00:22:54,149 --> 00:22:56,089 like, Winget, the Windows Store, 626 00:22:56,789 --> 00:22:59,484 a binary installer have at it. The other 627 00:22:59,484 --> 00:23:02,224 thing that's out there is emulated applications. 628 00:23:02,684 --> 00:23:04,304 So there's this emulation 629 00:23:04,605 --> 00:23:06,365 layer that's been worked on over the years 630 00:23:06,365 --> 00:23:08,065 in Windows on ARM called Prism. 631 00:23:08,525 --> 00:23:11,339 Think like Rosetta 2 on the Mac, but 632 00:23:11,339 --> 00:23:13,019 for a long time, like, wasn't thought of 633 00:23:13,019 --> 00:23:14,700 as good, but it's actually gotten really good 634 00:23:14,700 --> 00:23:15,200 lately. 635 00:23:15,660 --> 00:23:16,640 So so Prism's 636 00:23:17,099 --> 00:23:20,319 doing pretty well. So that'll do x86 emulation 637 00:23:20,779 --> 00:23:21,599 for x86 638 00:23:21,900 --> 00:23:23,599 apps that don't have 639 00:23:24,075 --> 00:23:24,815 ARM compatibility 640 00:23:25,115 --> 00:23:25,615 explicitly, 641 00:23:26,154 --> 00:23:28,634 but then there's this class of apps that's 642 00:23:28,634 --> 00:23:29,934 just wholly 643 00:23:30,234 --> 00:23:30,734 incompatible. 644 00:23:31,674 --> 00:23:34,554 So that can be things like drivers. So 645 00:23:34,554 --> 00:23:36,474 I'll give you an example. Like, one driver 646 00:23:36,474 --> 00:23:38,414 that I miss in my workflow 647 00:23:38,714 --> 00:23:39,375 on Windows 648 00:23:39,970 --> 00:23:40,470 is 649 00:23:41,009 --> 00:23:43,250 NDI and NDI audio and being able to 650 00:23:43,250 --> 00:23:45,890 pass NDI audio out of the virtual machine 651 00:23:45,890 --> 00:23:47,170 and have it come back to other things. 652 00:23:47,170 --> 00:23:49,410 Like, I would love to have, like, my 653 00:23:49,410 --> 00:23:52,210 Windows virtual machine maybe run as, like, PC 654 00:23:52,210 --> 00:23:55,330 number 2 for streaming scenarios or things like 655 00:23:55,330 --> 00:23:58,265 that, and you can't do that because there's 656 00:23:58,265 --> 00:23:59,805 no NDI on there. So 657 00:24:00,505 --> 00:24:03,144 that's a kinda niche driver, but in general, 658 00:24:03,144 --> 00:24:04,525 like, driver support, 659 00:24:04,904 --> 00:24:06,984 super hit or miss. Right? There's things that 660 00:24:06,984 --> 00:24:08,585 you're just not going to be able to 661 00:24:08,585 --> 00:24:09,484 install there. 662 00:24:09,900 --> 00:24:12,480 The other thing that you'll run into is 663 00:24:13,259 --> 00:24:14,460 you you're not gonna be able to game 664 00:24:14,460 --> 00:24:16,779 on those things, a virtual machine, or for 665 00:24:16,779 --> 00:24:19,099 the most part, like the Copilot Plus PCs 666 00:24:19,099 --> 00:24:20,880 as well because tons of it's emulated. 667 00:24:21,340 --> 00:24:22,619 You're definitely not gonna be able to do, 668 00:24:22,619 --> 00:24:24,404 like, triple a gaming for the most part 669 00:24:24,484 --> 00:24:26,404 just because of, like, anti cheat systems that 670 00:24:26,404 --> 00:24:28,904 require, like, kernel drivers and things like that. 671 00:24:29,285 --> 00:24:31,045 That's all all out the window. It doesn't 672 00:24:31,045 --> 00:24:33,285 exist. And then there's some other weird stuff 673 00:24:33,285 --> 00:24:34,884 that just doesn't work, 674 00:24:35,445 --> 00:24:38,424 depending on what kind of applications you're using. 675 00:24:38,590 --> 00:24:40,670 If you're, like, a content creator, like, there's 676 00:24:40,670 --> 00:24:42,430 parts of the Adobe suite that don't work 677 00:24:42,430 --> 00:24:43,650 due to, like, anti 678 00:24:44,029 --> 00:24:47,170 not anti cheap, but, like, anti crack mechanics 679 00:24:47,309 --> 00:24:49,390 and and things like that are built in. 680 00:24:49,390 --> 00:24:51,695 So it can be, like, a little bit 681 00:24:51,695 --> 00:24:54,255 of a rough experience. It's still early days 682 00:24:54,255 --> 00:24:57,214 for Windows on ARM, which is funny because 683 00:24:57,214 --> 00:24:58,914 it's been out there for a while now, 684 00:24:59,295 --> 00:25:01,315 but it is like a space that's still 685 00:25:01,455 --> 00:25:03,714 maturing, still moving through. So 686 00:25:04,049 --> 00:25:06,610 it's worth checking it out, but, you don't 687 00:25:06,610 --> 00:25:09,730 have to be beholden to any given set 688 00:25:09,730 --> 00:25:11,110 of hardware, be it 689 00:25:11,490 --> 00:25:15,090 Microsoft's hardware or Samsung or HP or whoever 690 00:25:15,090 --> 00:25:17,025 it happens to be. If you wanna be 691 00:25:17,025 --> 00:25:19,184 in that ARM ecosystem, like virtualization is an 692 00:25:19,184 --> 00:25:21,025 option with Parallels, or like I said, you 693 00:25:21,025 --> 00:25:21,845 can run 694 00:25:22,465 --> 00:25:25,285 Windows 11 virtual machines in Azure as well 695 00:25:25,825 --> 00:25:27,825 on ARM processors if you do wanna get 696 00:25:27,825 --> 00:25:29,184 hands on it I mean, hands on with 697 00:25:29,184 --> 00:25:31,019 it and play along. But if in your 698 00:25:31,019 --> 00:25:33,759 case, if you're looking for the richest compatibility, 699 00:25:34,460 --> 00:25:36,619 it's, like, a big trade off because then 700 00:25:36,619 --> 00:25:38,400 you're talking about going back to x86 701 00:25:39,820 --> 00:25:41,920 and buy buying, like, an Intel 702 00:25:42,380 --> 00:25:44,880 CPU, and then it's, well, it's 2024. 703 00:25:46,075 --> 00:25:47,755 Am I really gonna keep this thing tethered 704 00:25:47,755 --> 00:25:49,355 to my desk all the time? And if 705 00:25:49,355 --> 00:25:50,634 you're gonna keep it to tethered to your 706 00:25:50,634 --> 00:25:52,315 desk all the time, then you probably don't 707 00:25:52,315 --> 00:25:53,615 want, like, a Surface 708 00:25:53,994 --> 00:25:56,315 Pro kind of thing anyway. That seems wasteful 709 00:25:56,315 --> 00:25:58,234 just to have the the tablet kinda sitting 710 00:25:58,234 --> 00:26:00,859 there clamshell then docked up the whole time. 711 00:26:00,859 --> 00:26:02,380 You might just want, like, a little mini 712 00:26:02,380 --> 00:26:05,099 PC or something like that, which there's tons 713 00:26:05,099 --> 00:26:06,859 of options out there for stuff like that 714 00:26:06,859 --> 00:26:08,619 today. Like, you can get a pretty sweet 715 00:26:08,619 --> 00:26:10,160 little mini PC with 716 00:26:10,539 --> 00:26:12,305 32 gigs of RAM and a and a 717 00:26:12,305 --> 00:26:14,305 terabyte of hard drive space, and it can 718 00:26:14,305 --> 00:26:16,545 be running like a Ryzen 7. There's some 719 00:26:16,545 --> 00:26:19,345 Ryzen 9 stuff out there. There's definitely Intel 720 00:26:19,345 --> 00:26:22,224 Arc integrated GPU things. So depending on your 721 00:26:22,224 --> 00:26:24,224 workload and, like, where you sit and, like, 722 00:26:24,224 --> 00:26:25,984 what work looks like for you day to 723 00:26:25,984 --> 00:26:27,990 day, I think it's a fun time because 724 00:26:27,990 --> 00:26:30,070 you have lots of options too. Right? Like, 725 00:26:30,070 --> 00:26:31,350 I I don't I didn't have it on 726 00:26:31,350 --> 00:26:33,190 my bingo card. Then in 2024, I would 727 00:26:33,190 --> 00:26:35,269 say, hey, I would have the best experience 728 00:26:35,269 --> 00:26:37,430 for Windows on my Mac right now. When 729 00:26:37,430 --> 00:26:40,024 it comes to this certain variation of Windows 730 00:26:40,325 --> 00:26:42,345 that's running ARM 64, 731 00:26:43,044 --> 00:26:45,044 that's wild to me, and that'll probably be 732 00:26:45,044 --> 00:26:46,804 different next year, and then it'll probably be 733 00:26:46,804 --> 00:26:48,964 even different, like, the year after that. Like 734 00:26:48,964 --> 00:26:50,244 I said, I also didn't have it on 735 00:26:50,244 --> 00:26:52,005 my card, the my bingo card that I'd 736 00:26:52,005 --> 00:26:54,429 be thinking about actively going back to effectively, 737 00:26:54,429 --> 00:26:57,069 like, thin client kind of world. But I'm 738 00:26:57,069 --> 00:26:58,909 this close to being able to get there. 739 00:26:58,909 --> 00:27:02,190 Right? And that's interesting and exciting to me 740 00:27:02,190 --> 00:27:04,269 as well. Yeah. That would be interesting, and 741 00:27:04,269 --> 00:27:06,349 I've thought about that. I actually have when 742 00:27:06,349 --> 00:27:08,845 I've been on the verge of purchasing just 743 00:27:08,845 --> 00:27:11,164 to play with a mini PC that actually 744 00:27:11,164 --> 00:27:13,505 has a Xeon processor in it. $260 745 00:27:15,085 --> 00:27:17,244 or something. It's like a Xeon with 500 746 00:27:17,244 --> 00:27:18,625 gigs of or 500 747 00:27:18,950 --> 00:27:21,269 gigs of hard drive space and, I don't 748 00:27:21,269 --> 00:27:22,009 know, 16 749 00:27:22,390 --> 00:27:24,950 gigs of memory, something like that. So I've 750 00:27:24,950 --> 00:27:27,269 thought about that. I'm glad you mentioned drivers 751 00:27:27,269 --> 00:27:29,190 because that was I had forgotten about that. 752 00:27:29,190 --> 00:27:30,549 That was the other thing that I ran 753 00:27:30,549 --> 00:27:33,750 into with the Surface for Copilot. There weren't 754 00:27:33,750 --> 00:27:36,944 many. I was surprised how many worked, 755 00:27:37,404 --> 00:27:38,545 but my scanner 756 00:27:39,005 --> 00:27:40,605 did not work. I have one of the 757 00:27:40,605 --> 00:27:41,105 Fujitsu 758 00:27:41,565 --> 00:27:42,065 SnapScan. 759 00:27:42,444 --> 00:27:44,125 It's an older one, so I don't know 760 00:27:44,125 --> 00:27:45,804 if their brand new ones work, but the 761 00:27:45,804 --> 00:27:48,769 older one, no driver support, didn't like Windows 762 00:27:48,769 --> 00:27:50,849 11 unarmed at all, and the other one 763 00:27:50,849 --> 00:27:51,349 was 764 00:27:52,049 --> 00:27:53,750 network drivers for 765 00:27:54,130 --> 00:27:57,509 a wired network connection. I had a really 766 00:27:57,730 --> 00:27:58,869 hard time 767 00:27:59,394 --> 00:28:02,054 with that. CalDigit says right on their websites, 768 00:28:02,434 --> 00:28:04,375 their docs worked. I have both the TS 769 00:28:04,515 --> 00:28:05,575 3 and the TS 770 00:28:05,875 --> 00:28:08,194 4 plus, I think, are the 2. Both 771 00:28:08,194 --> 00:28:10,674 of them worked for everything except the network 772 00:28:10,674 --> 00:28:11,174 card. 773 00:28:11,659 --> 00:28:12,720 The Surface Dock 774 00:28:13,099 --> 00:28:15,339 does work with the network card. That was 775 00:28:15,339 --> 00:28:16,779 1, and I did have some luck with 776 00:28:16,779 --> 00:28:19,359 just a USB C network adapter. 777 00:28:19,740 --> 00:28:21,259 But let me tell you, the amount of 778 00:28:21,259 --> 00:28:24,224 hubs and dongles, like, we thought Mac or 779 00:28:24,464 --> 00:28:27,184 MacBook Pros with the whole dongle thing Welcome 780 00:28:27,184 --> 00:28:29,424 to dongle town. Surface is right up there 781 00:28:29,424 --> 00:28:31,525 with it with only 2 USB c ports. 782 00:28:31,744 --> 00:28:34,404 Man, I had dongles and docks hanging off 783 00:28:34,704 --> 00:28:37,299 every which way just to test everything out 784 00:28:37,299 --> 00:28:38,340 and see if I could get it all 785 00:28:38,340 --> 00:28:41,779 plugged in. It worked. Again, everything worked, but 786 00:28:41,779 --> 00:28:43,859 I did have some of those driver issues 787 00:28:43,859 --> 00:28:44,440 as well. 788 00:28:44,980 --> 00:28:47,320 It is like you said, it's really interesting 789 00:28:47,380 --> 00:28:47,880 and 790 00:28:48,180 --> 00:28:50,519 while it didn't end with me keeping Windows, 791 00:28:50,820 --> 00:28:53,375 I felt like it was still good to 792 00:28:53,434 --> 00:28:54,174 go through 793 00:28:54,555 --> 00:28:57,275 given that I mean, realistically, I've been on 794 00:28:57,275 --> 00:29:00,234 macOS as a daily driver for probably the 795 00:29:00,234 --> 00:29:01,615 better part of 13, 796 00:29:02,234 --> 00:29:04,795 14 years now. Windows has gotten better, I 797 00:29:04,795 --> 00:29:07,160 will say. Either that or maybe macOS is 798 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:07,900 maybe not. 799 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,680 MacOS has also had some issues, I would 800 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,279 say, but I don't feel as strongly as 801 00:29:14,279 --> 00:29:16,359 I probably would say I did 13 years 802 00:29:16,359 --> 00:29:17,980 ago about the superiority 803 00:29:18,519 --> 00:29:19,259 of macOS. 804 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,015 I think it's, in my opinion, it's gotten 805 00:29:22,015 --> 00:29:23,955 a lot to there are 2 different ecosystems. 806 00:29:24,494 --> 00:29:26,835 There's pros and cons to both. And 807 00:29:27,455 --> 00:29:30,414 depending on which ecosystem you're in, maybe you 808 00:29:30,414 --> 00:29:32,095 get used to certain things or there's just 809 00:29:32,095 --> 00:29:32,835 certain annoyances. 810 00:29:33,470 --> 00:29:35,250 I have a lot of apps that are 811 00:29:35,309 --> 00:29:38,029 specifically geared to Mac OS, and that does 812 00:29:38,029 --> 00:29:40,349 make a difference when it comes down to 813 00:29:40,349 --> 00:29:43,650 the du 2 different OSes in my experience. 814 00:29:44,029 --> 00:29:46,430 But it's it was really interesting, and it 815 00:29:46,430 --> 00:29:49,075 does have me thinking a little bit more 816 00:29:49,075 --> 00:29:49,575 about 817 00:29:50,115 --> 00:29:52,454 some of the Windows stuff and how to 818 00:29:52,674 --> 00:29:54,434 almost, I think, how to spend more time 819 00:29:54,434 --> 00:29:55,174 in Windows 820 00:29:55,634 --> 00:29:57,875 because of some of the benefits and, like 821 00:29:57,875 --> 00:29:58,855 you said, because 822 00:29:59,315 --> 00:30:01,654 my client base is in Windows so much. 823 00:30:01,819 --> 00:30:04,299 And there's a gap. I'm rambling, but this 824 00:30:04,299 --> 00:30:05,900 is one more thing. There is a gap 825 00:30:05,900 --> 00:30:08,220 that has widened. There was a conference we 826 00:30:08,220 --> 00:30:10,539 were at, Scott. I can't remember. It must 827 00:30:10,539 --> 00:30:12,079 have been one of the first Ignites 828 00:30:12,460 --> 00:30:15,500 back in maybe Chicago, which I'll be back 829 00:30:15,500 --> 00:30:17,544 in Chicago again in a month. Just FYI, 830 00:30:17,544 --> 00:30:19,184 if you're gonna be at Ignite, let me 831 00:30:19,184 --> 00:30:21,125 know. But back at Ignite, 832 00:30:21,664 --> 00:30:24,065 probably the first one in Chicago, Microsoft was 833 00:30:24,065 --> 00:30:26,484 like, we want you to use Office on 834 00:30:26,625 --> 00:30:28,545 every device. We don't care if it's macOS, 835 00:30:28,545 --> 00:30:31,140 if it's Windows, whatever. Office on every device. 836 00:30:31,519 --> 00:30:33,839 And I still remember this because I got 837 00:30:33,839 --> 00:30:35,599 excited about it, which is probably why it 838 00:30:35,599 --> 00:30:37,359 stuck in my so head so much as 839 00:30:37,359 --> 00:30:39,140 they talked about trying to unify 840 00:30:39,519 --> 00:30:41,839 the code base where you would get feature 841 00:30:41,839 --> 00:30:42,339 parity 842 00:30:43,565 --> 00:30:46,445 between Office on Windows, Office on Mac. Was 843 00:30:46,445 --> 00:30:47,744 it a bit of a pipe dream? 844 00:30:48,445 --> 00:30:48,945 Possibly. 845 00:30:49,325 --> 00:30:51,644 PWAs for everybody. But after they said that, 846 00:30:51,644 --> 00:30:54,365 I felt like there they definitely put some 847 00:30:54,365 --> 00:30:54,865 renewed 848 00:30:55,164 --> 00:30:59,299 focus on the macOS Office apps. There was 849 00:30:59,519 --> 00:31:00,259 a narrowing 850 00:31:00,559 --> 00:31:03,440 of the features between the 2, and I 851 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:04,259 stayed hopeful. 852 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:06,880 However, I will say that over the last 853 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,519 2 or 3 years, I feel like that 854 00:31:09,519 --> 00:31:13,065 has actually started to diverge some. Like, we 855 00:31:13,065 --> 00:31:15,625 were probably way out here. I don't know. 856 00:31:15,625 --> 00:31:17,144 Just to give you a visual, we were 857 00:31:17,144 --> 00:31:19,224 2 feet apart on feature gaps. I would 858 00:31:19,224 --> 00:31:21,484 say we got down to maybe 6 inches. 859 00:31:21,544 --> 00:31:22,984 We were down to maybe a 6 inch 860 00:31:22,984 --> 00:31:24,984 feature gap, but I feel like we've winded 861 00:31:24,984 --> 00:31:26,450 out not as bad as it used to 862 00:31:26,450 --> 00:31:28,849 be, but it's not a narrow feature gap 863 00:31:28,849 --> 00:31:31,490 anymore. I feel like it's winded out to 864 00:31:31,490 --> 00:31:33,329 a foot just to give you half of 865 00:31:33,329 --> 00:31:35,009 what it used to be, but double what 866 00:31:35,009 --> 00:31:35,509 it 867 00:31:36,049 --> 00:31:38,130 was maybe 3 or 4 years ago. I 868 00:31:38,130 --> 00:31:40,444 think those things are never gonna match 100%. 869 00:31:40,585 --> 00:31:42,744 Right? Design language is always gonna be different, 870 00:31:42,744 --> 00:31:43,244 but 871 00:31:43,704 --> 00:31:45,784 it it is surprising to me that there's 872 00:31:45,784 --> 00:31:47,484 still core functionality 873 00:31:47,944 --> 00:31:48,444 differences. 874 00:31:49,384 --> 00:31:49,884 If 875 00:31:50,265 --> 00:31:53,190 Microsoft never intends to bring a unified inbox 876 00:31:53,190 --> 00:31:55,349 to the Monarch client, like, you would think 877 00:31:55,349 --> 00:31:57,669 they'd be better served just ripping that out 878 00:31:57,669 --> 00:32:00,009 today. Right? Rip the Band Aid and 879 00:32:00,629 --> 00:32:02,169 get it done in macOS, 880 00:32:03,190 --> 00:32:04,250 Outlook on macOS 881 00:32:04,629 --> 00:32:06,169 and things like that, but, 882 00:32:07,065 --> 00:32:08,664 yeah, it's hard. I don't know where all 883 00:32:08,664 --> 00:32:10,044 that stuff eventually 884 00:32:10,825 --> 00:32:12,924 bottoms out. I I continue to think 885 00:32:13,464 --> 00:32:16,825 for you, my gut still says, like, your 886 00:32:16,825 --> 00:32:19,384 best experience and your best ecosystem for day 887 00:32:19,384 --> 00:32:22,320 to day is probably Windows. As as much 888 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,320 as you don't like it and don't wanna 889 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:25,680 be there, like, it's where the bread and 890 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:27,519 butter is. Right? So Yep. You gotta be 891 00:32:27,519 --> 00:32:29,119 there. I'd very much prefer to be in 892 00:32:29,119 --> 00:32:30,799 macOS all day as well, but I can't 893 00:32:30,799 --> 00:32:33,119 be because of my job. So this is 894 00:32:33,119 --> 00:32:34,980 the compromise that I've come to 895 00:32:35,464 --> 00:32:37,805 is, hey, here's how I'm gonna do 896 00:32:38,265 --> 00:32:40,825 Windows in my life, right, and how I'm 897 00:32:40,825 --> 00:32:43,085 gonna go and and make those things 898 00:32:43,785 --> 00:32:46,345 make those things work. But Yes. It's tough 899 00:32:46,345 --> 00:32:48,424 to lead, like, the dual hardware life too. 900 00:32:48,424 --> 00:32:49,919 I think that's another thing that I really 901 00:32:49,919 --> 00:32:52,559 like about the virtualization solution is I'm not 902 00:32:52,559 --> 00:32:54,160 going to, like, a KVM and hitting a 903 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,619 button, or I'm not, like, physically swapping cables 904 00:32:57,679 --> 00:32:59,200 or anything like that. I'm with you. Some 905 00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:00,960 of the functionality doesn't make sense. One of 906 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:02,179 the ones that still 907 00:33:02,559 --> 00:33:05,484 bugs me is OneNote. OneNote, we still don't 908 00:33:05,565 --> 00:33:07,884 if the OneNote team is listening, I keep 909 00:33:07,884 --> 00:33:10,365 asking for this. We do not have add 910 00:33:10,365 --> 00:33:12,765 ins yet in OneNote on the Mac. I 911 00:33:12,765 --> 00:33:14,845 don't know how long add ins have been 912 00:33:14,845 --> 00:33:17,880 there, but it has definitely been years. We 913 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:19,259 have add ins in Word, PowerPoint, 914 00:33:19,559 --> 00:33:20,059 Excel. 915 00:33:20,599 --> 00:33:23,720 No add ins in OneNote for Mac. Like, 916 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:26,059 this is a very core feature, and 917 00:33:26,599 --> 00:33:28,140 we also have no 918 00:33:28,599 --> 00:33:29,099 Copilot 919 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,359 in OneNote. Again, will it ever come? I 920 00:33:32,359 --> 00:33:33,180 have this 921 00:33:33,505 --> 00:33:36,304 hunch that maybe it's actually tied to add 922 00:33:36,304 --> 00:33:39,025 ins, but there's some of that it's 923 00:33:40,544 --> 00:33:42,244 I feel like it's very core 924 00:33:42,625 --> 00:33:46,464 to the application itself. Like, OneNote on Windows 925 00:33:46,464 --> 00:33:47,924 has is it stickies? 926 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,319 Or it's like sticky notes, there's no sign 927 00:33:50,319 --> 00:33:52,259 of those in macOS. So some of that 928 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,579 core functionality where if you're on one, 929 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:56,420 it's just, like, completely 930 00:33:57,119 --> 00:34:00,000 missing. There's no compatibility between them. And like 931 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:01,920 you said, there's going to be some things 932 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:04,734 that exist like that, but there's other things 933 00:34:04,734 --> 00:34:06,194 that feel too 934 00:34:06,494 --> 00:34:07,875 core to the application 935 00:34:08,175 --> 00:34:10,034 itself in usage 936 00:34:10,335 --> 00:34:12,894 that it still surprises me that some of 937 00:34:12,894 --> 00:34:14,034 that stuff hasn't 938 00:34:14,414 --> 00:34:16,994 come together or been more aligned. 939 00:34:19,070 --> 00:34:20,849 To have insights to the roadmap 940 00:34:21,309 --> 00:34:24,530 would be an interesting thing. I don't know. 941 00:34:24,590 --> 00:34:26,849 We'll see where it bottoms out. I think 942 00:34:27,309 --> 00:34:29,650 the cool thing is where we are today 943 00:34:29,789 --> 00:34:30,289 is 944 00:34:30,989 --> 00:34:33,864 hardware can be a crosscut and fairly ubiquitous 945 00:34:33,864 --> 00:34:35,065 if you want it to. Right? Like I 946 00:34:35,065 --> 00:34:36,525 said, like, you can go from 947 00:34:36,904 --> 00:34:39,784 running macOS and Windows side by side, or 948 00:34:39,784 --> 00:34:42,444 if you want, like, an ARM Windows device, 949 00:34:42,585 --> 00:34:45,404 those are broadly available and and exist today, 950 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:47,760 even at, like, better pricing than Mac. Like, 951 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,160 I would still argue that, like, my MacBook 952 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,160 is some of the best hardware that I 953 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:53,700 possibly have ever had, 954 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,059 and the support experience and all that's great. 955 00:34:57,680 --> 00:34:59,840 But, you know, I would totally go out 956 00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:01,675 and get a Surface laptop 957 00:35:01,974 --> 00:35:05,175 or a Surface Studio or a Surface Pro 958 00:35:05,175 --> 00:35:07,514 or things like that if those were, like, 959 00:35:07,574 --> 00:35:10,534 fitting into my ecosystem and, effectively, like, my 960 00:35:10,534 --> 00:35:12,054 way of work, right, which you have to 961 00:35:12,054 --> 00:35:13,255 have a little bit be a little bit 962 00:35:13,255 --> 00:35:14,074 keyed into. 963 00:35:14,529 --> 00:35:16,449 What's your way of work, and where do 964 00:35:16,449 --> 00:35:18,609 you wanna land? And then, like I said 965 00:35:18,609 --> 00:35:21,250 earlier, like, this stuff moves so rapidly. Like, 966 00:35:21,250 --> 00:35:22,849 I didn't have it in on my bingo 967 00:35:22,849 --> 00:35:24,609 card in 2024 that this would be the 968 00:35:24,609 --> 00:35:26,210 way I'd be doing it. But I bet 969 00:35:26,210 --> 00:35:27,029 in 2025, 970 00:35:27,409 --> 00:35:29,009 like, we came back and discussed this in 971 00:35:29,009 --> 00:35:31,255 a year, I'd probably be doing something completely 972 00:35:31,255 --> 00:35:33,914 different because the landscape has just shifted again 973 00:35:34,054 --> 00:35:35,815 in a slightly different way. We'll have to 974 00:35:35,815 --> 00:35:37,574 see that. Add that to our calendar, Scott. 975 00:35:37,574 --> 00:35:39,195 Set a reminder for 365 976 00:35:39,494 --> 00:35:41,035 days from now. Discuss 977 00:35:41,670 --> 00:35:44,069 how which operating systems we work on and 978 00:35:44,069 --> 00:35:45,670 how we work on them or devices and 979 00:35:45,670 --> 00:35:47,109 how we work. I would ask the dog, 980 00:35:47,109 --> 00:35:48,869 but she's just gonna stretch behind me. So 981 00:35:49,030 --> 00:35:51,670 Alright. Well, with that, Scott, I think we 982 00:35:51,670 --> 00:35:53,864 both have meetings to go to. We do. 983 00:35:53,945 --> 00:35:56,105 We do. It's an off day for recording, 984 00:35:56,105 --> 00:35:58,025 so back to work we go. Well, thanks. 985 00:35:58,025 --> 00:36:00,824 That was interesting, and you said it. We're 986 00:36:00,824 --> 00:36:02,525 gonna circle back to it in a year 987 00:36:03,144 --> 00:36:04,744 and see what we're doing. I don't want 988 00:36:04,744 --> 00:36:06,744 any to it, but someone will surely remind 989 00:36:06,744 --> 00:36:08,905 me along the way. So 100%. And if 990 00:36:08,905 --> 00:36:10,400 you're gonna be in Ignite, 991 00:36:10,859 --> 00:36:13,339 let me know. Hopefully, I can drag Scott 992 00:36:13,339 --> 00:36:15,679 along for the ride TBD. TBD. 993 00:36:15,980 --> 00:36:17,280 We'll see. We'll 994 00:36:17,739 --> 00:36:18,639 see what the 995 00:36:18,940 --> 00:36:21,260 the media landscape looks like at Ignite this 996 00:36:21,260 --> 00:36:23,659 year. Alright. Well, thanks, Scott. Go enjoy the 997 00:36:23,659 --> 00:36:24,559 rest of your 998 00:36:24,859 --> 00:36:25,359 Monday, 999 00:36:25,715 --> 00:36:28,135 and we will talk to you again 1000 00:36:28,514 --> 00:36:30,835 a little later. Alright. Cool. Thanks, Ben. Have 1001 00:36:30,835 --> 00:36:32,054 a good one. Thanks, Scott. 1002 00:36:33,954 --> 00:36:36,195 If you enjoyed the podcast, go leave us 1003 00:36:36,195 --> 00:36:38,355 a 5 star rating in iTunes. It helps 1004 00:36:38,355 --> 00:36:40,199 to get the word out so more IT 1005 00:36:40,199 --> 00:36:41,980 pros can learn about Office 365 1006 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:42,940 and Azure. 1007 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,159 If you have any questions you want us 1008 00:36:45,159 --> 00:36:47,320 to address on the show, or feedback about 1009 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,639 the show, feel free to reach out via 1010 00:36:49,639 --> 00:36:51,820 our website, Twitter, or Facebook. 1011 00:36:52,199 --> 00:36:54,039 Thanks again for listening, and have a great 1012 00:36:54,039 --> 00:36:54,539 day.

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Microsoft Cloud IT Pro Podcast

Ben Stegink, Scott Hoag

On the MS Cloud IT Pro Podcast, Scott and Ben discuss the Microsoft Cloud with a focus on IT Pros. They'll discuss the latest in Microsoft 365 and Office 365 News, Azure news and talk about their experiences with managing the Microsoft Cloud as well as interview industry experts on various cloud technology. They'll cover things such as SharePoint, Exchange, Microsoft Teams, PowerShell, Azure, Azure AD, Security, Networking, Storage, and the many other technologies and products that have made their way into the Microsoft 365 suite and Azure. To stay up-to-date on the latest in Microsoft Cloud news and gain some valuable knowledge as you deploy it within your own organization, make sure to tune in every week! Find out more at msclouditpropodcast.com.

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