Episode 399 – Azure Infrastructure as Code with Greg Suttie

April 10, 2025

Episode Transcript

Welcome to Episode 399 of the Microsoft Cloud IT Pro Podcast. In this episode, we bring you another interview from the MVP Summit. In this episode, we were able to meet up with long time listener Greg Suttie and talk about his path to becoming an MVP as well as some of what he’s been working on in Azure. We cover everything he been doing with Infrastructure as code around Bicep, Azure Verified Modules, Azure Bicep Configuration files and more!

Greg Suttie Greg is an Azure MVP and Microsoft Certified Trainer.
He also a passionate developer with 25 years experience, mainly with Microsoft Technologies and background is a .NET developer since the start of .NET. – He was one of the first 50 people in the world to become an MCSD developer back in the day. Recently awarded the Outstanding contribution to the Microsoft Community UK Winner and then the Outstanding contribution to the Microsoft Community Global Winner both for 2023.

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1 00:00:03,439 --> 00:00:05,919 Welcome to episode 399 2 00:00:05,919 --> 00:00:09,039 of the Microsoft Cloud IT Pro podcast recorded 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:12,900 live from the MVP Summit on 03/28/2025. 4 00:00:13,199 --> 00:00:15,554 This is a show about Microsoft three sixty 5 00:00:15,554 --> 00:00:17,635 five and Azure from the perspective of IT 6 00:00:17,635 --> 00:00:19,875 pros and end users, where we discuss a 7 00:00:19,875 --> 00:00:21,875 topic or recent news and how it relates 8 00:00:21,875 --> 00:00:24,275 to you. This week, Ben and Scott get 9 00:00:24,275 --> 00:00:25,954 a chance to catch up with Greg Sutti 10 00:00:25,954 --> 00:00:27,175 at the MVP Summit. 11 00:00:27,554 --> 00:00:29,550 While there, Scott and Greg have a chance 12 00:00:29,550 --> 00:00:31,949 to sit down and discuss infrastructure as code 13 00:00:31,949 --> 00:00:34,350 in Azure. They discuss what Greg has been 14 00:00:34,350 --> 00:00:36,590 working on when it comes to Bicep, Azure 15 00:00:36,590 --> 00:00:40,530 verified modules, Bicep configuration files, and more. 16 00:00:42,829 --> 00:00:44,530 I'm here at MVP Summit 17 00:00:45,364 --> 00:00:47,364 with Gregor, who decided to sit down and 18 00:00:47,364 --> 00:00:48,824 was gracious enough to 19 00:00:49,284 --> 00:00:50,424 join us today. 20 00:00:50,964 --> 00:00:53,225 Gregor is an MVP 21 00:00:53,684 --> 00:00:54,664 in Microsoft 22 00:00:55,045 --> 00:00:55,545 Azure 23 00:00:56,085 --> 00:00:57,625 infrastructure and code, 24 00:00:58,140 --> 00:01:00,620 cost resource and configuration management, and probably a 25 00:01:00,620 --> 00:01:02,219 bunch of other things where it has a 26 00:01:02,219 --> 00:01:04,219 bunch of other skills. So, Gregor, why don't 27 00:01:04,219 --> 00:01:05,980 you take a couple minutes, go ahead, introduce 28 00:01:05,980 --> 00:01:07,900 yourself, and then we'll get into things. Thank 29 00:01:07,900 --> 00:01:09,740 you, Scott. Yeah. My name is Gregor Sutti. 30 00:01:09,740 --> 00:01:11,980 I'm an Azure architect for a company in 31 00:01:11,980 --> 00:01:12,560 The Netherlands. 32 00:01:13,064 --> 00:01:14,984 I am from Scotland, so I will try 33 00:01:14,984 --> 00:01:16,905 and speak slowly so that everyone can understand 34 00:01:16,905 --> 00:01:17,405 me. 35 00:01:18,024 --> 00:01:20,504 My background, I was a developer from from 36 00:01:20,504 --> 00:01:21,325 v b sixties, 37 00:01:21,704 --> 00:01:24,024 then I moved over to .net, and then 38 00:01:24,024 --> 00:01:25,465 I was doing SQL. So I've got a 39 00:01:25,465 --> 00:01:26,825 bit of a data background, but I have 40 00:01:26,825 --> 00:01:28,799 a development background, and then I moved to 41 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,359 become an Azure architect for Intercept in The 42 00:01:31,359 --> 00:01:31,859 Netherlands. 43 00:01:32,159 --> 00:01:33,760 I have been doing that for five years 44 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,180 now. Yeah. And I'm Azure MVP. I'm also 45 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:38,480 an MCT, so I do a lot of 46 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,635 Azure fundamentals training, Azure AI training. And, yeah, 47 00:01:41,635 --> 00:01:43,954 that's basically my background. Training near and dear 48 00:01:43,954 --> 00:01:46,355 to my heart. Mhmm. Love training. Love training. 49 00:01:46,355 --> 00:01:48,115 I probably annoyed a bunch of people. I 50 00:01:48,115 --> 00:01:49,475 I I was one of the writers for 51 00:01:49,475 --> 00:01:51,395 the AZ 100 before I became the one 52 00:01:51,395 --> 00:01:52,375 zero four. So 53 00:01:52,674 --> 00:01:53,715 you you get a lot of stuff in 54 00:01:53,715 --> 00:01:55,590 there to blame me for. Nice to know. 55 00:01:55,590 --> 00:01:56,950 So tell me a little bit about your 56 00:01:56,950 --> 00:01:59,189 experience as an MVP. I think folks always 57 00:01:59,189 --> 00:02:00,170 ask that question. 58 00:02:00,709 --> 00:02:02,650 Yeah. How do you come become an MVP? 59 00:02:02,950 --> 00:02:04,950 What goes into it? Like, what's your Lyft 60 00:02:04,950 --> 00:02:07,769 experience there? Good question. So, yeah, my background, 61 00:02:07,984 --> 00:02:09,905 I always wanted to be an MVP. I 62 00:02:09,905 --> 00:02:11,824 wasn't really sure what it was to begin 63 00:02:11,824 --> 00:02:13,504 with, so I reached out to one of 64 00:02:13,664 --> 00:02:16,064 another fellow Scottish person called Kenny Lowe, and 65 00:02:16,064 --> 00:02:17,584 I asked him and he told me quite 66 00:02:17,584 --> 00:02:19,584 a lot about the program. Really interested in 67 00:02:19,584 --> 00:02:20,944 it. I had to say to myself, I 68 00:02:20,944 --> 00:02:22,860 would love to become an MVP. So my 69 00:02:22,860 --> 00:02:24,700 first step was I wrote the letters MVP 70 00:02:24,700 --> 00:02:26,379 above my monitor at home, and I thought 71 00:02:26,379 --> 00:02:27,819 that is my goal. I want to become 72 00:02:27,819 --> 00:02:29,740 an MVP. You you put together a vision 73 00:02:29,740 --> 00:02:31,020 board. No. I just put I just put 74 00:02:31,020 --> 00:02:32,620 the letters MVP right above it. I thought 75 00:02:32,620 --> 00:02:34,060 I'm gonna go for this. This is my 76 00:02:34,060 --> 00:02:36,115 goal. I started off I don't have any 77 00:02:36,115 --> 00:02:37,715 Azure experience, so I was working as a 78 00:02:37,715 --> 00:02:38,534 dot net developer. 79 00:02:38,835 --> 00:02:40,675 The cloud is obviously a big thing five, 80 00:02:40,675 --> 00:02:42,514 six years ago. I wanted to learn Azure, 81 00:02:42,514 --> 00:02:44,514 so I started off with just learning the 82 00:02:44,514 --> 00:02:46,594 exams. So I started off with the development 83 00:02:46,594 --> 00:02:49,400 exams, and I started off blogging about my 84 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:53,239 experience of learning, like, the developer exams. Like, 85 00:02:53,239 --> 00:02:54,840 how am I what study material am I 86 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:56,360 gonna do? How am I gonna go about 87 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:58,840 learning this? I'm a hands on learner, so 88 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:00,680 the way I learn is by I don't 89 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:03,004 read much. Basically, I read the docs and 90 00:03:03,004 --> 00:03:05,245 then hands on learning. So open up the 91 00:03:05,245 --> 00:03:07,805 Azure portal, deploy the resources, and learn from 92 00:03:07,805 --> 00:03:10,044 that. Then I did some practice tests, took 93 00:03:10,044 --> 00:03:11,485 the exam and failed it the first time 94 00:03:11,485 --> 00:03:14,125 around because I didn't have enough hands on 95 00:03:14,125 --> 00:03:16,044 experience. I thought I knew enough to pass 96 00:03:16,044 --> 00:03:17,490 the exam, but it turned out I didn't. 97 00:03:17,490 --> 00:03:18,770 So I took a lot of learnings from 98 00:03:18,770 --> 00:03:20,610 that, but I needed to spend more time 99 00:03:20,610 --> 00:03:22,530 hands on. Took the exam again and passed 100 00:03:22,530 --> 00:03:25,169 it, and today, as of now, I've done 101 00:03:25,169 --> 00:03:27,969 13 exams. So I am quite exam heavy. 102 00:03:27,969 --> 00:03:30,450 Kind of got a routine of studying hands 103 00:03:30,450 --> 00:03:33,125 on, looking at the docs, blogging about my 104 00:03:33,125 --> 00:03:35,145 experiences of what I've learned, what you need 105 00:03:35,205 --> 00:03:37,685 to focus on for the exams. And, yeah, 106 00:03:37,685 --> 00:03:40,085 from that, I then started attending the Glasgow 107 00:03:40,085 --> 00:03:42,645 Azure user group where Sarah Lynn runs that. 108 00:03:42,645 --> 00:03:44,724 She approached me because I was going quite 109 00:03:44,724 --> 00:03:45,224 regular, 110 00:03:45,770 --> 00:03:46,969 and she said, would you like to help? 111 00:03:46,969 --> 00:03:49,050 So I'm kinda helping her with that. That 112 00:03:49,129 --> 00:03:51,849 that's been very helpful for MVP. So I've 113 00:03:51,849 --> 00:03:52,590 been blogging. 114 00:03:52,889 --> 00:03:54,030 I would do some talks 115 00:03:54,330 --> 00:03:56,169 and helping out the Azure user group. So 116 00:03:56,169 --> 00:03:57,930 that's kinda how I got started in becoming 117 00:03:57,930 --> 00:03:59,865 an MVP. And a lot of people reach 118 00:03:59,865 --> 00:04:01,705 out to me on LinkedIn and say, how 119 00:04:01,705 --> 00:04:03,705 do I become an MVP? So I always 120 00:04:03,705 --> 00:04:05,625 say it's all about the community. It's all 121 00:04:05,625 --> 00:04:09,064 about giving back. So whatever you learn, blog 122 00:04:09,064 --> 00:04:11,625 it, write about it, share your knowledge, share 123 00:04:11,625 --> 00:04:13,625 your things you've run into. Lots of times 124 00:04:13,625 --> 00:04:16,069 I Google for for an issue and I 125 00:04:16,069 --> 00:04:17,269 end up look at ended up on my 126 00:04:17,269 --> 00:04:17,930 own blog. 127 00:04:18,310 --> 00:04:20,310 So I started blogging because I've got terrible 128 00:04:20,310 --> 00:04:22,889 memory. Oh, yeah. And sometimes I still still 129 00:04:22,949 --> 00:04:25,290 end up on my own blog. So, yeah, 130 00:04:25,509 --> 00:04:28,310 blogging, giving back to the community, user groups 131 00:04:28,310 --> 00:04:30,149 are always helpful. But I would say you 132 00:04:30,149 --> 00:04:31,645 don't have to a lot of people say 133 00:04:31,645 --> 00:04:33,165 that you'd have to do public speaking. I 134 00:04:33,165 --> 00:04:34,685 don't think you do. There's one of my 135 00:04:34,685 --> 00:04:37,084 friends, Thomas Thornton, he's got an amazing blog 136 00:04:37,084 --> 00:04:38,365 and that's all he does, and he's become 137 00:04:38,365 --> 00:04:41,084 an MVP from from blogging. He's not into 138 00:04:41,084 --> 00:04:43,564 public speaking. So just giving back to the 139 00:04:43,564 --> 00:04:45,699 community as much as possible is is kinda 140 00:04:45,699 --> 00:04:47,860 how you go about becoming an MVP. Gotcha. 141 00:04:47,860 --> 00:04:49,939 Yeah. One of the other things, or at 142 00:04:49,939 --> 00:04:51,939 least my experience there is I I I 143 00:04:51,939 --> 00:04:53,300 did a similar thing. I wanted to be 144 00:04:53,300 --> 00:04:55,219 an MVP. I never became an MVP, but 145 00:04:55,219 --> 00:04:57,459 that was okay because the things that I 146 00:04:57,459 --> 00:04:59,300 were doing, I still got to go out 147 00:04:59,300 --> 00:05:01,605 and meet people and interact with user groups. 148 00:05:01,605 --> 00:05:04,485 And that experience of like, yeah, oh, I 149 00:05:04,485 --> 00:05:06,324 just landed from Google on my own blog. 150 00:05:06,324 --> 00:05:08,404 Yep. It's definitely a thing that happens. So 151 00:05:08,404 --> 00:05:11,285 I I often tell folks don't do it 152 00:05:11,285 --> 00:05:12,725 with the expectation that you want to be 153 00:05:12,725 --> 00:05:13,925 in a VP. Absolutely. Do it with the 154 00:05:13,925 --> 00:05:15,625 expectation that you want to 155 00:05:15,980 --> 00:05:17,740 participate in a community. You want to become 156 00:05:17,740 --> 00:05:19,580 a better technical writer. You want to become 157 00:05:19,580 --> 00:05:22,620 a better presenter. Whatever dimension or or mix 158 00:05:22,620 --> 00:05:24,779 or match of those things are so that 159 00:05:24,779 --> 00:05:26,779 you're getting something out of it. Yeah. And 160 00:05:26,779 --> 00:05:29,339 and and that's really kind of the the 161 00:05:29,339 --> 00:05:30,764 goal and where you want to land. So 162 00:05:30,925 --> 00:05:33,025 I I I have to inquire. So your 163 00:05:33,245 --> 00:05:35,645 Azure infrastructure as code is one of your 164 00:05:35,645 --> 00:05:39,004 categories. Yep. Dot net developer. Yep. Have have 165 00:05:39,004 --> 00:05:40,285 you crossed to the dark side? Do you 166 00:05:40,285 --> 00:05:42,925 consider yourself an IT pro these days? No. 167 00:05:42,925 --> 00:05:44,925 I'm not an IT pro. Generalist. Yeah. I'm 168 00:05:44,925 --> 00:05:47,720 more so when I worked for JP Morgan, 169 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:49,079 they came up with this term t shaped 170 00:05:49,079 --> 00:05:51,399 developer. So the idea is you are kind 171 00:05:51,399 --> 00:05:53,000 of broad, but you go deep in one 172 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:54,360 area. So I thought that was quite good. 173 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:56,680 So my not my problem, but my background 174 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:58,199 is I am a bit of a master 175 00:05:58,199 --> 00:05:59,955 of a jack of all trades, master of 176 00:05:59,955 --> 00:06:01,555 none, and I decided I would try and 177 00:06:01,555 --> 00:06:03,634 do infrastructure as code as kinda my deep 178 00:06:03,634 --> 00:06:06,615 thing. So, yeah, I do data. I do 179 00:06:06,675 --> 00:06:09,895 AI. I do infrastructure as code, cost management. 180 00:06:09,955 --> 00:06:12,300 I do most of Azure. Probably the only 181 00:06:12,300 --> 00:06:14,220 thing I don't really do is EKS, and 182 00:06:14,220 --> 00:06:15,740 that's the one thing I've kinda because people 183 00:06:15,740 --> 00:06:17,180 at my work to do all that. And 184 00:06:17,180 --> 00:06:18,860 I'm like, you can you can stick with 185 00:06:18,860 --> 00:06:20,300 that and I'll do the rest. So, yeah, 186 00:06:20,300 --> 00:06:21,979 I get asked lots of questions about lots 187 00:06:21,979 --> 00:06:22,879 of different things. 188 00:06:23,180 --> 00:06:26,145 Infrastructure as code, and I have a very 189 00:06:26,145 --> 00:06:27,824 lucky background. I work for a lot of 190 00:06:27,824 --> 00:06:29,504 people, a lot of managers who taught me 191 00:06:29,504 --> 00:06:32,545 how to do things properly, document things, do 192 00:06:32,545 --> 00:06:34,625 pull requests with good comments, and and I 193 00:06:34,625 --> 00:06:36,064 was just I've just got a really good 194 00:06:36,064 --> 00:06:38,145 background for working for good people who showed 195 00:06:38,145 --> 00:06:39,504 me how to do it the right way. 196 00:06:39,504 --> 00:06:42,970 So infrastructure as code, build pipelines, doing everything 197 00:06:43,189 --> 00:06:45,189 professionally. So that's why I got into Bicep. 198 00:06:45,189 --> 00:06:46,949 I wanted to learn how to deploy resources 199 00:06:46,949 --> 00:06:47,610 for customers 200 00:06:48,069 --> 00:06:50,629 across different environments and do it properly. So, 201 00:06:50,629 --> 00:06:52,629 yeah, I'm a big Bicep fan. That that 202 00:06:52,629 --> 00:06:54,569 was gonna be my next question. Mhmm. So 203 00:06:55,264 --> 00:06:57,664 Azure Resource Manager arm has changed a bunch 204 00:06:57,664 --> 00:06:58,964 over the years Yep. From 205 00:06:59,425 --> 00:07:01,044 declarative templates to 206 00:07:01,824 --> 00:07:02,884 Bicep and 207 00:07:03,264 --> 00:07:05,904 and having a domain specific language and and 208 00:07:05,904 --> 00:07:06,564 a DSL. 209 00:07:07,370 --> 00:07:09,209 And there there are certainly folks out there, 210 00:07:09,209 --> 00:07:11,529 I think, that have done infrastructure as code 211 00:07:11,529 --> 00:07:13,789 either on the arm side. They've done maybe 212 00:07:13,849 --> 00:07:14,349 Terraform, 213 00:07:14,889 --> 00:07:16,649 tends to be like my canonical one that 214 00:07:16,649 --> 00:07:18,409 I go back to and and near and 215 00:07:18,409 --> 00:07:20,409 dear to my heart. How how how are 216 00:07:20,409 --> 00:07:20,909 you 217 00:07:21,404 --> 00:07:23,904 finding Bicep, like, the transition from 218 00:07:24,205 --> 00:07:27,264 traditional resource manager templates and and kinda 219 00:07:27,645 --> 00:07:29,904 coming over that? And then are you 220 00:07:30,605 --> 00:07:32,764 is are you just a a Bicep fan? 221 00:07:32,764 --> 00:07:34,764 Are you using it with customers? Like, how 222 00:07:34,764 --> 00:07:36,990 is how is kind of the getting past 223 00:07:36,990 --> 00:07:39,790 the documentation and the POCs to, hey, here's 224 00:07:39,790 --> 00:07:41,949 how this goes in the world for you? 225 00:07:41,949 --> 00:07:44,350 Great question. I did luckily, I didn't spend 226 00:07:44,350 --> 00:07:45,790 too much time in my career doing ARM 227 00:07:45,790 --> 00:07:47,710 templates because ARM templates are a little bit 228 00:07:47,710 --> 00:07:49,790 tricky to kinda understand. When you look at 229 00:07:49,790 --> 00:07:51,845 them, you're like, what is the dependency chain? 230 00:07:51,845 --> 00:07:53,925 How are things working? So I kind of 231 00:07:53,925 --> 00:07:55,605 got on board with Bicep from the very 232 00:07:55,605 --> 00:07:58,324 start. I open up Versus Code. I just 233 00:07:58,324 --> 00:08:00,725 write Bicep. I basically just learned it by, 234 00:08:00,725 --> 00:08:02,725 again, hands on. How do I deploy a 235 00:08:02,725 --> 00:08:05,125 storage account? Let's start with some simple deploy 236 00:08:05,125 --> 00:08:07,930 it like that. How do I parameterize it? 237 00:08:07,930 --> 00:08:09,769 How do I deploy it? Do I deploy 238 00:08:09,769 --> 00:08:11,129 it from my machine? Do I deploy it 239 00:08:11,129 --> 00:08:14,829 from Azure DevOps or GitHub workflows? Runners. Sorry. 240 00:08:14,889 --> 00:08:17,370 So, yeah, just learning it by hands on 241 00:08:17,370 --> 00:08:18,889 and doing it, and I've been doing it 242 00:08:18,889 --> 00:08:21,464 for five years now. Probably, I feel good 243 00:08:21,464 --> 00:08:22,584 at it now, I would suggest. I've got 244 00:08:22,584 --> 00:08:24,904 lots of experience. So when I'm at work, 245 00:08:24,904 --> 00:08:27,544 I always do infrastructure as code using Bicep. 246 00:08:27,544 --> 00:08:29,464 Everyone kinda asks me how to do things 247 00:08:29,464 --> 00:08:31,324 because I I spend probably 248 00:08:31,625 --> 00:08:32,504 70% 249 00:08:32,504 --> 00:08:34,605 of the week doing Bicep for different customers. 250 00:08:34,919 --> 00:08:36,279 Absolutely. I love it. I love the idea 251 00:08:36,279 --> 00:08:38,460 that I can show customers how to deploy 252 00:08:38,759 --> 00:08:41,419 their environment to dev and test in production 253 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,279 using the same templates. So all of the 254 00:08:44,279 --> 00:08:47,000 same standards. The only difference is the config 255 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,754 for the actual deployment resources. So dev might 256 00:08:49,754 --> 00:08:51,834 be a a cheap VM, and acceptance of 257 00:08:51,834 --> 00:08:53,754 prod might be a more expensive VM. So, 258 00:08:53,754 --> 00:08:55,914 yeah, I'm using Bicep a lot, and I 259 00:08:55,914 --> 00:08:57,834 absolutely love it. Even today, we're talking to 260 00:08:57,834 --> 00:08:59,914 the Bicep team, and I think that stuff's 261 00:08:59,914 --> 00:09:02,420 great. Gotcha. And and before we started recording, 262 00:09:02,420 --> 00:09:04,740 you had mentioned that some of the projects 263 00:09:04,740 --> 00:09:06,740 you work on with customers might be around 264 00:09:06,740 --> 00:09:08,519 migrations, things like that. 265 00:09:09,139 --> 00:09:11,399 How do you see your customers 266 00:09:12,019 --> 00:09:15,514 kinda going through those motions? And maybe if 267 00:09:15,514 --> 00:09:17,134 I'm migrating to Azure, 268 00:09:17,434 --> 00:09:19,194 I I I don't know your experience with 269 00:09:19,194 --> 00:09:21,115 it. I'd be curious to understand. I I 270 00:09:21,115 --> 00:09:22,714 see a lot of customers that kinda start 271 00:09:22,714 --> 00:09:24,235 in the portal, and they just go next, 272 00:09:24,235 --> 00:09:26,475 next, next. And I've I've got my virtual 273 00:09:26,475 --> 00:09:28,654 machine, and I've got my VNet. And 274 00:09:29,070 --> 00:09:30,750 oh oh, I I need a database. I 275 00:09:30,750 --> 00:09:32,929 might stand up like a PaaS instance, like 276 00:09:32,990 --> 00:09:35,070 manage instance, something like that. And then they 277 00:09:35,070 --> 00:09:36,670 do it once and they go, how do 278 00:09:36,670 --> 00:09:38,350 I do it again? Correct. And and and 279 00:09:38,350 --> 00:09:39,870 what does that look like? So I'm curious 280 00:09:39,870 --> 00:09:41,090 like, do your customers 281 00:09:41,965 --> 00:09:42,465 move 282 00:09:42,845 --> 00:09:44,764 kind of more traditionally? They come up, they 283 00:09:44,764 --> 00:09:46,125 go through that same kind of motion, and 284 00:09:46,125 --> 00:09:48,524 then you step in and help them take 285 00:09:48,524 --> 00:09:51,504 those environments to a more repeatable 286 00:09:51,884 --> 00:09:54,284 stamped out model? Yep. So it depends on 287 00:09:54,284 --> 00:09:57,120 the customer, obviously. Some customers are already using 288 00:09:57,279 --> 00:10:00,100 doing ClickOps and they're already in Azure. ClickOps? 289 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:01,759 Yeah. We call it ClickOps. Yeah. Yeah. And 290 00:10:01,759 --> 00:10:03,840 the port then the portal just and then 291 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:05,440 you show them the value of Bicep and 292 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:06,799 you show them how you can repeat the 293 00:10:06,799 --> 00:10:07,299 environment. 294 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:10,115 Because I always I always worry that potentially 295 00:10:10,254 --> 00:10:12,095 a region may go down. You never know. 296 00:10:12,095 --> 00:10:13,774 And they're in West Europe and they might 297 00:10:13,774 --> 00:10:15,455 need to move to North Europe. And if 298 00:10:15,455 --> 00:10:17,534 you've deployed that by hand using ClickOps, how 299 00:10:17,534 --> 00:10:18,914 do you remember all the settings? 300 00:10:19,294 --> 00:10:21,054 The person who's deployed it might move on 301 00:10:21,054 --> 00:10:23,070 from the company and then you're kinda left 302 00:10:23,230 --> 00:10:24,910 not sure what to do. So I will 303 00:10:24,910 --> 00:10:27,309 show them that from a PowerShell file, we 304 00:10:27,309 --> 00:10:30,110 call our Bicep templates. We deploy dev. We 305 00:10:30,110 --> 00:10:31,389 roll it out. They kinda have a look 306 00:10:31,389 --> 00:10:33,250 at it. They check the settings. They deploy 307 00:10:33,389 --> 00:10:35,309 their workload on top of that. All good. 308 00:10:35,309 --> 00:10:37,789 Then we move on to acceptance and production. 309 00:10:37,789 --> 00:10:39,514 So once they see the value of it, 310 00:10:39,514 --> 00:10:41,595 they're all in. And when I'm doing my 311 00:10:41,595 --> 00:10:43,995 architecture designs upfront, I always put in a 312 00:10:43,995 --> 00:10:46,554 section about why infrastructure of code's important, and 313 00:10:46,554 --> 00:10:48,075 they kinda get it. The the buy in 314 00:10:48,075 --> 00:10:49,914 to nobody's ever said, no. We're doing click 315 00:10:49,914 --> 00:10:52,250 ops. But what I still see is sometimes 316 00:10:52,250 --> 00:10:55,549 I'll deploy dev acceptance prod and some people 317 00:10:55,690 --> 00:10:58,090 manually change things, and then then they realize 318 00:10:58,090 --> 00:10:59,929 that there's drift. And then when they deploy 319 00:10:59,929 --> 00:11:02,090 the resources, all of a sudden acceptance isn't 320 00:11:02,090 --> 00:11:03,690 working, but dev is. And then they're like, 321 00:11:03,690 --> 00:11:05,049 yeah, what's going on? And then you have 322 00:11:05,049 --> 00:11:06,335 to show them, like, you have to use 323 00:11:06,335 --> 00:11:08,175 infrastructure as code, you have to use build 324 00:11:08,175 --> 00:11:11,215 pipelines, no touch deployment, like, but but I 325 00:11:11,215 --> 00:11:12,495 always want to do click ups to get 326 00:11:12,495 --> 00:11:14,175 things working quickly. I I get that. But 327 00:11:14,175 --> 00:11:16,335 sometimes you just have to, like, teach these 328 00:11:16,335 --> 00:11:18,175 people that that's gonna lead to pain. So, 329 00:11:18,175 --> 00:11:20,434 yeah, we've we've had a customer recently who 330 00:11:20,690 --> 00:11:22,690 we deployed dev acceptance and prod. We set 331 00:11:22,690 --> 00:11:24,929 up the workload and then they manually changed 332 00:11:24,929 --> 00:11:26,870 some things and, like, dev and acceptance 333 00:11:27,329 --> 00:11:28,929 was was working but dev wasn't and then 334 00:11:28,929 --> 00:11:30,769 it was because of the changes. Yeah. So 335 00:11:30,769 --> 00:11:32,529 just a learning curve, but that's the way 336 00:11:32,529 --> 00:11:34,795 to go. E easier to click run once 337 00:11:34,795 --> 00:11:37,035 on a pipeline Yeah. Or or an action 338 00:11:37,035 --> 00:11:39,355 than it is to click next, next, next, 339 00:11:39,355 --> 00:11:40,394 next, next, next Well, we have we have 340 00:11:40,394 --> 00:11:42,815 10 web apps and one of the customers 341 00:11:42,955 --> 00:11:44,394 was basically changing all the settings on the 342 00:11:44,394 --> 00:11:46,235 web apps and acceptance and dev was working 343 00:11:46,235 --> 00:11:48,690 and acceptance wasn't. And sometimes it's difficult to 344 00:11:48,690 --> 00:11:50,850 compare two different environments, and they're in the 345 00:11:50,850 --> 00:11:53,009 same region and they're in the same subscription, 346 00:11:53,009 --> 00:11:55,970 but, I'm sorry, they're different subscriptions, but, yeah, 347 00:11:55,970 --> 00:11:57,490 for for, like, web apps, there's a lot 348 00:11:57,490 --> 00:11:58,690 of settings, and I had to go through 349 00:11:58,690 --> 00:12:00,610 and manually compare them all. And, yeah, that 350 00:12:00,610 --> 00:12:02,450 was a bit of a painful exercise, but 351 00:12:02,450 --> 00:12:04,004 you kinda teach them that that's not the 352 00:12:04,004 --> 00:12:06,004 way to go. So we've kinda put delete 353 00:12:06,004 --> 00:12:08,004 locks in them or or making sure that 354 00:12:08,004 --> 00:12:09,605 there's PIN so that they don't they don't 355 00:12:09,605 --> 00:12:11,125 have access to go and do things unless 356 00:12:11,125 --> 00:12:12,804 they elevate and and and do that kind 357 00:12:12,804 --> 00:12:15,204 of stuff. Gotcha. Do you also find that 358 00:12:15,204 --> 00:12:17,970 you like, maybe those more traditional migration customers 359 00:12:18,370 --> 00:12:20,289 to teach them a little bit about I 360 00:12:20,289 --> 00:12:21,649 I imagine you need to wear a little 361 00:12:21,649 --> 00:12:24,209 bit of your software development hat and and 362 00:12:24,209 --> 00:12:25,189 kinda get into 363 00:12:25,809 --> 00:12:29,329 software development life cycle Yep. Because infrastructure as 364 00:12:29,329 --> 00:12:32,049 code Mhmm. That needs to live someplace. Yep. 365 00:12:32,049 --> 00:12:33,509 That that Bicep file 366 00:12:34,085 --> 00:12:36,325 and the history of it and the versioning 367 00:12:36,325 --> 00:12:38,245 of it, it's Yep. Gotta be in Azure 368 00:12:38,245 --> 00:12:40,565 DevOps or GitHub or hopefully some type of 369 00:12:40,565 --> 00:12:43,524 repository that's not your OneDrive or your desktop 370 00:12:43,524 --> 00:12:45,285 or a little thumb drive over in the 371 00:12:45,285 --> 00:12:46,899 corner. Yeah. That's the thing. You you have 372 00:12:46,899 --> 00:12:49,299 to source control the the infrastructure as code. 373 00:12:49,299 --> 00:12:51,940 And then, normally, what I do is internally, 374 00:12:51,940 --> 00:12:53,539 where I work, we we will create the 375 00:12:53,539 --> 00:12:54,839 repos for our customers. 376 00:12:55,139 --> 00:12:56,740 And then I'll I'll lay all the bicep. 377 00:12:56,740 --> 00:12:58,100 And then if they want, we'll give them 378 00:12:58,100 --> 00:12:59,700 the bicep and put it into their Azure 379 00:12:59,700 --> 00:13:01,764 DevOps, and then they can run pipelines. But 380 00:13:01,764 --> 00:13:03,304 we tend to do it in our repos. 381 00:13:03,524 --> 00:13:04,804 So it's me that's writing all of the 382 00:13:04,804 --> 00:13:06,725 code, and then they just they just review 383 00:13:06,725 --> 00:13:08,164 it and and check it. But, yeah, it 384 00:13:08,164 --> 00:13:10,184 needs to make sure that it's source controlled 385 00:13:10,324 --> 00:13:13,125 without doing proper proper proper pull requests and 386 00:13:13,125 --> 00:13:14,725 and rep approvals and all that kind of 387 00:13:14,725 --> 00:13:16,379 good stuff. Yeah. I also help build the 388 00:13:16,379 --> 00:13:18,220 pipelines for them because a lot of customers 389 00:13:18,220 --> 00:13:19,899 like, we've got infrastructure as code, but how 390 00:13:19,899 --> 00:13:21,580 do we deploy it? It's like, they don't 391 00:13:21,580 --> 00:13:23,500 want I'm gonna introduce you to our friend 392 00:13:23,500 --> 00:13:25,019 Gamel. Yeah. They they don't want me to 393 00:13:25,019 --> 00:13:26,940 deploy to production from my machine, which is 394 00:13:26,940 --> 00:13:28,575 totally fine. Well, I have to set up 395 00:13:28,575 --> 00:13:30,815 the pipelines for them, and then sometimes customers 396 00:13:30,815 --> 00:13:32,175 don't know how to do that as well. 397 00:13:32,175 --> 00:13:34,415 So I will build the ammo and build 398 00:13:34,415 --> 00:13:36,014 all the pipelines for them, and then then 399 00:13:36,014 --> 00:13:37,774 they're in a good place. But sometimes they 400 00:13:37,774 --> 00:13:40,095 just don't quite understand because on on prem, 401 00:13:40,095 --> 00:13:41,695 they're just manually changing things, and then they 402 00:13:41,695 --> 00:13:42,975 wanna do the same in the cloud. And 403 00:13:42,975 --> 00:13:44,549 they're like, no. Please don't. That's not really 404 00:13:44,549 --> 00:13:46,309 best practice. So so I learn and you 405 00:13:46,309 --> 00:13:47,750 just have to keep keep on the on 406 00:13:47,750 --> 00:13:49,350 this case and make sure they're doing the 407 00:13:49,350 --> 00:13:50,009 right things. 408 00:13:50,629 --> 00:13:53,370 It's quite funny sometimes. That reminds me of 409 00:13:53,669 --> 00:13:55,269 like sitting down with my kids maybe and 410 00:13:55,269 --> 00:13:55,769 like, 411 00:13:56,149 --> 00:13:58,309 no, don't do that. Yeah. Exactly. I I 412 00:13:58,309 --> 00:14:00,205 really need you to go do your homework. 413 00:14:00,205 --> 00:14:01,485 I mean, you tell them don't do that, 414 00:14:01,485 --> 00:14:02,764 they'll let it. But we've got it working 415 00:14:02,764 --> 00:14:03,804 then. And I'm like, yeah. You got it 416 00:14:03,804 --> 00:14:06,384 working, but it's not repeatable. And and eventually, 417 00:14:06,445 --> 00:14:08,044 it's things in that they need to do 418 00:14:08,044 --> 00:14:09,825 things properly. Gotcha. Yeah. 419 00:14:13,629 --> 00:14:15,789 Do you feel overwhelmed by trying to manage 420 00:14:15,789 --> 00:14:18,029 your Office three sixty five environment? Are you 421 00:14:18,029 --> 00:14:21,409 facing unexpected issues that disrupt your company's productivity? 422 00:14:21,629 --> 00:14:23,629 Intelligink is here to help. Much like you 423 00:14:23,629 --> 00:14:25,470 take your car to the mechanic that has 424 00:14:25,470 --> 00:14:27,629 specialized knowledge on how to best keep your 425 00:14:27,629 --> 00:14:30,654 car running, Intelligent helps you with your Microsoft 426 00:14:30,715 --> 00:14:32,894 cloud environment because that's their expertise. 427 00:14:33,355 --> 00:14:35,595 Intelligent keeps up with the latest updates in 428 00:14:35,595 --> 00:14:37,754 the Microsoft cloud to help keep your business 429 00:14:37,754 --> 00:14:39,995 running smoothly and ahead of the curve. Whether 430 00:14:39,995 --> 00:14:42,075 you are a small organization with just a 431 00:14:42,075 --> 00:14:44,549 few users up to an organization of several 432 00:14:44,549 --> 00:14:45,529 thousand employees, 433 00:14:45,909 --> 00:14:47,830 they want to partner with you to implement 434 00:14:47,830 --> 00:14:50,649 and administer your Microsoft cloud technology. 435 00:14:51,350 --> 00:14:54,809 Visit them at intelleginc.com/podcast. 436 00:14:55,110 --> 00:15:01,824 That's intelligink,.com/podcast 437 00:15:02,284 --> 00:15:04,365 for more information or to schedule a thirty 438 00:15:04,365 --> 00:15:06,464 minute call to get started with them today. 439 00:15:06,684 --> 00:15:10,044 Remember, Intelligink focuses on the Microsoft cloud so 440 00:15:10,044 --> 00:15:11,759 you can focus on your business. 441 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:15,540 And how much do you find 442 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:16,740 that 443 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,600 you you you kinda spend your time just 444 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:21,679 keeping up with the churn of Azure? And 445 00:15:21,679 --> 00:15:23,279 and as you see so you mentioned maybe, 446 00:15:23,279 --> 00:15:24,720 like, deploying, like, a web app for a 447 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,065 customer, and they had two environments and a 448 00:15:27,065 --> 00:15:29,225 setting changed over here and over here. Web 449 00:15:29,225 --> 00:15:31,304 apps are also changing as as they go, 450 00:15:31,304 --> 00:15:32,985 things like that. Like, how do you think 451 00:15:32,985 --> 00:15:35,164 about that as an architect and incorporating 452 00:15:35,784 --> 00:15:38,904 maybe additional parameters into your templates and Yeah. 453 00:15:38,904 --> 00:15:41,289 It's it's challenging. Yeah. I mean, I I 454 00:15:41,289 --> 00:15:42,569 do a lot of training and and when 455 00:15:42,569 --> 00:15:44,250 you're doing training and have the slides and 456 00:15:44,250 --> 00:15:45,529 you're like, let's go into a storage account 457 00:15:45,529 --> 00:15:47,370 and deploy a storage account and the settings 458 00:15:47,370 --> 00:15:49,370 will change because the the the UI of 459 00:15:49,370 --> 00:15:51,089 the the portal updates quite a lot and 460 00:15:51,289 --> 00:15:54,014 yeah. It's challenging. It definitely is. So to 461 00:15:54,014 --> 00:15:55,454 kinda keep on top of that, we are 462 00:15:55,454 --> 00:15:57,375 making use of what's called the Azure verified 463 00:15:57,375 --> 00:16:00,334 modules. So within Bicep, Microsoft are working on 464 00:16:00,334 --> 00:16:03,054 this Bicep kind of ex they extract the 465 00:16:03,054 --> 00:16:04,735 modules for you, they write the modules for 466 00:16:04,735 --> 00:16:06,430 you, and then we just call them. So 467 00:16:06,430 --> 00:16:08,750 they've got an ongoing GitHub project called Azure 468 00:16:08,750 --> 00:16:11,230 Verified Modules. They've pretty much got all of 469 00:16:11,230 --> 00:16:13,470 the Azure resources built, and we just call 470 00:16:13,470 --> 00:16:14,830 that. So we make use of that, which 471 00:16:14,830 --> 00:16:16,990 is which is awesome. Going forward, Microsoft are 472 00:16:16,990 --> 00:16:18,990 kinda trying to push everybody towards using Azure 473 00:16:18,990 --> 00:16:21,565 Verified Modules. So that helps a lot. So, 474 00:16:21,625 --> 00:16:23,544 yeah. So I I work in Azure storage. 475 00:16:23,544 --> 00:16:25,225 Mhmm. I'm I'm one of the people that 476 00:16:25,225 --> 00:16:27,625 signs off on those on the on those 477 00:16:27,625 --> 00:16:30,184 verified modules for for the team that that 478 00:16:30,184 --> 00:16:31,865 builds them and pushes them out there. I 479 00:16:31,865 --> 00:16:34,225 think it's a a very interesting model that 480 00:16:34,345 --> 00:16:36,809 that's kind of moving there. If you think 481 00:16:36,809 --> 00:16:38,830 about, like, being a customer in the past, 482 00:16:39,049 --> 00:16:41,850 you might have gone to Microsoft and read 483 00:16:41,850 --> 00:16:44,269 the documentation or landed up in a samples 484 00:16:44,330 --> 00:16:46,730 repo, things like that. But you were largely 485 00:16:46,730 --> 00:16:48,730 left to your own devices. Yep. And and 486 00:16:48,730 --> 00:16:49,629 sure, there's 487 00:16:49,934 --> 00:16:51,615 support there. Yep. And and you can reach 488 00:16:51,615 --> 00:16:53,535 out to CSS, but they might have to 489 00:16:53,855 --> 00:16:55,715 Microsoft customer support. But they 490 00:16:56,254 --> 00:16:58,174 they kinda have to do some debugging and 491 00:16:58,174 --> 00:16:59,855 and things with you along the way. So 492 00:16:59,855 --> 00:17:01,075 one of one of the niceties 493 00:17:01,615 --> 00:17:04,429 of AVM or those Azure Terraform 494 00:17:17,609 --> 00:17:19,674 modules in there Terraform modules in there as 495 00:17:19,674 --> 00:17:21,514 well. So it's not just Bicep. It's Bicep 496 00:17:21,514 --> 00:17:23,514 and Terraform. They're there. And and one of 497 00:17:23,514 --> 00:17:25,134 the things that I like about those 498 00:17:25,434 --> 00:17:25,934 is 499 00:17:26,394 --> 00:17:29,115 not only the kind of nice sample nature 500 00:17:29,115 --> 00:17:31,595 that's there, they've also implemented a bunch of 501 00:17:31,595 --> 00:17:32,095 best 502 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:35,320 practices and learnings that come in. Like, I 503 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:36,271 I know when we were working on the 504 00:17:36,271 --> 00:17:38,160 storage modules and kind of working through that 505 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:40,160 partnership, there was a lot of kind of 506 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:41,619 things around best practices, 507 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,960 best default state. What's what's what's just like 508 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,275 the best configuration? If somebody picked this up 509 00:17:47,275 --> 00:17:49,375 and they did a fire and forget deployment, 510 00:17:49,835 --> 00:17:51,835 what's the best state that customer needs to 511 00:17:51,835 --> 00:17:54,075 be in and where they need to be? 512 00:17:54,075 --> 00:17:55,914 So there there's a lot of that in 513 00:17:55,914 --> 00:17:58,234 there as well. Like, zone of resiliency is 514 00:17:58,234 --> 00:18:00,015 a consideration from the front 515 00:18:00,500 --> 00:18:02,340 and being able to tie that all together. 516 00:18:02,340 --> 00:18:02,840 So 517 00:18:03,220 --> 00:18:05,320 I I think as AVM matures, 518 00:18:05,860 --> 00:18:09,140 it'll definitely become a a good place for 519 00:18:09,140 --> 00:18:10,900 customers to to look to. I have a 520 00:18:10,900 --> 00:18:12,500 lot of my customers come to me today 521 00:18:12,500 --> 00:18:13,154 and say, 522 00:18:13,875 --> 00:18:14,615 why EVM? 523 00:18:15,474 --> 00:18:18,134 Especially my Terraform customers, why EVM versus 524 00:18:18,515 --> 00:18:20,855 the HashiCorp modules or the 525 00:18:21,674 --> 00:18:23,555 or or something else that's out there in 526 00:18:23,555 --> 00:18:24,615 open source. And, 527 00:18:24,994 --> 00:18:26,515 really, I think the biggest thing is the 528 00:18:26,515 --> 00:18:27,015 supportability 529 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:31,099 built, maintained, 530 00:18:31,559 --> 00:18:32,059 supported 531 00:18:33,319 --> 00:18:33,900 by Microsoft, 532 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:34,940 and 533 00:18:35,319 --> 00:18:38,359 customers get that support as well. So I'd 534 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:39,960 encourage anybody to go out and take a 535 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:40,779 look at APM. 536 00:18:41,234 --> 00:18:42,295 Some of the modules 537 00:18:42,674 --> 00:18:44,755 are kind of in a beta state, alpha 538 00:18:44,755 --> 00:18:46,434 state. They're they're they're in various states of 539 00:18:46,434 --> 00:18:46,934 release. 540 00:18:47,555 --> 00:18:49,394 But as that gets sealed up across all 541 00:18:49,394 --> 00:18:51,255 the services that are out there, it becomes 542 00:18:51,394 --> 00:18:53,954 kind of a broader ecosystem over time. One 543 00:18:53,954 --> 00:18:55,960 of the best things I think is you 544 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:57,400 can you can put that in a design 545 00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,240 for a customer. So I'm designing right now, 546 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:01,180 design document, I can tell them all this. 547 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,900 And the documentation for the Azure verified modules 548 00:19:04,120 --> 00:19:06,680 references the Well Architected Framework. And one of 549 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:08,519 the best things about the docs for EVM 550 00:19:08,519 --> 00:19:10,220 is you can go to usage examples 551 00:19:10,605 --> 00:19:12,605 and the bot one is always well well 552 00:19:12,605 --> 00:19:14,865 architected framework and it shows you the Bicep. 553 00:19:15,005 --> 00:19:17,744 So the docs for Bicep alone are sometimes 554 00:19:17,964 --> 00:19:19,565 a little bit tricky to to figure out 555 00:19:19,565 --> 00:19:21,565 what is the ID reference, what is what 556 00:19:21,644 --> 00:19:23,404 it says it's an array, the property might 557 00:19:23,404 --> 00:19:25,170 say an array and you're not sure what 558 00:19:25,170 --> 00:19:27,730 goes in that array. But the AVM, the 559 00:19:27,730 --> 00:19:30,130 well architected framework, has very nice examples of 560 00:19:30,130 --> 00:19:31,970 how to deploy things with best practice in 561 00:19:31,970 --> 00:19:33,410 mind to that. That's one of the keys 562 00:19:33,410 --> 00:19:34,930 of using it, I think. Yeah. And it 563 00:19:34,930 --> 00:19:36,690 will it will make it better going forward. 564 00:19:36,690 --> 00:19:37,750 Yeah. Yeah. 565 00:19:38,049 --> 00:19:39,664 Not just just raised, but, like, the the 566 00:19:39,664 --> 00:19:42,565 fixed enums, the fixed values. I think it's 567 00:19:42,625 --> 00:19:44,244 a kind of good set of, 568 00:19:44,545 --> 00:19:47,265 if not best practices, certainly like guardrails or 569 00:19:47,265 --> 00:19:49,664 referential material. Yep. In the case of, like, 570 00:19:49,664 --> 00:19:51,825 a storage account, you you don't we might 571 00:19:51,825 --> 00:19:54,660 want the underscore, like, standard underscore LRS versus 572 00:19:54,660 --> 00:19:56,980 just standard LRS. Like, whatever it happens to 573 00:19:56,980 --> 00:19:57,480 be 574 00:19:57,940 --> 00:19:59,960 as as you're pumping those things through. 575 00:20:00,339 --> 00:20:01,940 I I I'm curious because you you you 576 00:20:01,940 --> 00:20:04,660 mentioned kind of architectural docs and design docs 577 00:20:04,660 --> 00:20:06,835 and things like that. Do you take advantage 578 00:20:06,974 --> 00:20:09,214 of kind of any of the tooling that's 579 00:20:09,214 --> 00:20:10,335 out there? Maybe do you have a favorite 580 00:20:10,335 --> 00:20:13,055 one for, like, visualizing your templates and the 581 00:20:13,055 --> 00:20:14,674 resources that are visualizing, 582 00:20:15,134 --> 00:20:17,375 I Yeah. Sometimes I just when I deploy 583 00:20:17,375 --> 00:20:19,455 the bicep in Visual Studio Code, you can 584 00:20:19,455 --> 00:20:21,779 get a a resource visualizer. But one tool 585 00:20:21,779 --> 00:20:23,299 I'd really like to call out is what's 586 00:20:23,299 --> 00:20:26,099 called the AZ quick review, AZ QR. I 587 00:20:26,099 --> 00:20:27,539 don't know if not a lot of people 588 00:20:27,539 --> 00:20:28,819 know about this. I have not heard of 589 00:20:28,819 --> 00:20:29,859 this. So it's an ex It's a cool 590 00:20:29,859 --> 00:20:32,019 name. It's a GitHub project. It's a open 591 00:20:32,019 --> 00:20:34,335 source GitHub project. And if you run that, 592 00:20:34,575 --> 00:20:35,934 so what we do is we run this 593 00:20:35,934 --> 00:20:38,414 tool after we've built the the bicep. We've 594 00:20:38,414 --> 00:20:40,095 run the pipeline. The last step of the 595 00:20:40,095 --> 00:20:42,015 pipeline is you can point it at your 596 00:20:42,015 --> 00:20:44,335 subscription where you've just deployed it. And against 597 00:20:44,335 --> 00:20:46,494 the way I'll architect the framework, it'll generate 598 00:20:46,494 --> 00:20:48,820 a CSV that lists all the resources. It 599 00:20:48,820 --> 00:20:50,980 will tell you your security scores. It will 600 00:20:50,980 --> 00:20:51,480 recommend 601 00:20:51,779 --> 00:20:53,700 what you've not done, what you should do. 602 00:20:53,700 --> 00:20:55,859 And it's very in-depth and it is very 603 00:20:55,859 --> 00:20:57,940 good for finding out like, oh, I'm using 604 00:20:57,940 --> 00:21:00,420 service endpoints. I should really be using private 605 00:21:00,420 --> 00:21:03,964 endpoints. I'm not using TLS 1.3 or 1.2. 606 00:21:03,964 --> 00:21:05,884 It'll tell you all that good stuff that 607 00:21:05,884 --> 00:21:07,644 is built in. So we just call this 608 00:21:07,644 --> 00:21:09,404 tool. You can run it against a tenant 609 00:21:09,404 --> 00:21:11,164 and do all the subscriptions. You can run 610 00:21:11,164 --> 00:21:13,244 it against an individual subscription or you can 611 00:21:13,244 --> 00:21:14,845 even do it against a resource group and 612 00:21:14,845 --> 00:21:16,880 even a resource. And it prompts out a 613 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:18,720 CSV file at the end and you redo 614 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:20,079 that as part of the build. You get 615 00:21:20,079 --> 00:21:22,720 the art artifact from Azure DevOps, and you've 616 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:24,480 got something to show the customer. And you 617 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:25,759 can do that. You can run that tool 618 00:21:25,759 --> 00:21:27,200 at any point. So if you're not even 619 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:28,914 using Bicep, you can still run the tool 620 00:21:28,914 --> 00:21:30,755 against your environment, and it'll give you a 621 00:21:30,755 --> 00:21:33,154 list of recommendations. So excellent. It's really good. 622 00:21:33,154 --> 00:21:35,234 I wish Microsoft would look take maybe even 623 00:21:35,234 --> 00:21:37,555 do something towards using something like that because 624 00:21:37,555 --> 00:21:39,715 it's really useful. Once you've deployed your your 625 00:21:39,715 --> 00:21:41,715 infrastructure's code, it basically gives you a score 626 00:21:41,715 --> 00:21:43,480 and says here's the good parts, here's the 627 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:45,000 not so good parts. Go and fix that. 628 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,000 And that's, again, against the well architected framework. 629 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,240 So it's building on top of AVM as 630 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,579 well. Gotcha. Yeah. So what what's your 631 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:52,460 favorite 632 00:21:52,759 --> 00:21:53,740 feature in Bicep? 633 00:21:54,039 --> 00:21:55,880 Favorite feature in Bicep? Oh, that's a good 634 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:57,724 question. Let me think. I only think. Favorite 635 00:21:57,724 --> 00:21:58,625 feature in Bicep. 636 00:21:59,085 --> 00:22:01,325 I like the Bicep parameters. So that's a 637 00:22:01,325 --> 00:22:02,924 kind of when you have a a main 638 00:22:02,924 --> 00:22:05,644 dot Bicep file, and we talked about before 639 00:22:05,644 --> 00:22:08,044 where you're deploying the dev environment, the test 640 00:22:08,044 --> 00:22:10,784 environment, and the production environment, these three environments 641 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,759 may differ just from the the size of 642 00:22:13,759 --> 00:22:15,519 the VM, let's say. So the VM for 643 00:22:15,519 --> 00:22:17,380 dev may be like a a small VM, 644 00:22:17,519 --> 00:22:19,200 and then you can have a para a 645 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,440 bisect parameter file for the the dev environment. 646 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,505 We've also got one for acceptance and prod. 647 00:22:23,505 --> 00:22:24,964 So the acceptance and prod 648 00:22:25,265 --> 00:22:28,144 variables will consider a larger VM, more disk 649 00:22:28,144 --> 00:22:29,984 size, maybe an extra disk. So you can 650 00:22:29,984 --> 00:22:31,904 configure all that and bicep. So that means 651 00:22:31,904 --> 00:22:34,625 that you're deploying all these resources with three 652 00:22:34,625 --> 00:22:36,865 different environments with the three different settings. So 653 00:22:36,865 --> 00:22:38,480 that, I really like that. I think that's 654 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:40,099 really cool. That's been out for a while. 655 00:22:40,159 --> 00:22:41,759 Yeah. It's it's a good way to rationalize 656 00:22:41,759 --> 00:22:44,079 things through, like, because often it's t shirt 657 00:22:44,079 --> 00:22:46,240 sizing. It's small, medium, large. And that's much 658 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,200 easier for somebody to figure out than what's 659 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:50,419 a d sixteen 660 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,615 Yep. V five or v six or Yep. 661 00:22:53,755 --> 00:22:55,474 Oh, oh, no. A d 16 s versus 662 00:22:55,474 --> 00:22:57,274 a d 16. And and and you can 663 00:22:57,274 --> 00:22:59,434 kind of bake that logic in into your 664 00:22:59,434 --> 00:23:00,174 own custom 665 00:23:00,554 --> 00:23:02,315 enums along the way. What what do you 666 00:23:02,315 --> 00:23:03,855 see as kind of the biggest 667 00:23:04,210 --> 00:23:07,090 kind of stumbling block or or pitfall with 668 00:23:07,090 --> 00:23:09,009 your customers and bicep today? Like if somebody 669 00:23:09,009 --> 00:23:09,990 is new to it, like, 670 00:23:10,450 --> 00:23:12,289 what are one or two things that they 671 00:23:12,289 --> 00:23:13,970 should look out for? A lot of our 672 00:23:13,970 --> 00:23:16,515 customers believe us to write the bicep, which 673 00:23:16,674 --> 00:23:18,355 getting them on board is quite tricky. You 674 00:23:18,355 --> 00:23:20,115 just have to, like, we will write the 675 00:23:20,115 --> 00:23:22,674 bicep and kinda sometimes they want to take 676 00:23:22,674 --> 00:23:23,794 the repo off of us and look at 677 00:23:23,794 --> 00:23:24,994 it and and they don't have the skills 678 00:23:24,994 --> 00:23:27,154 to learn bicep. So scaling them on on 679 00:23:27,154 --> 00:23:28,434 that is is sometimes a bit of an 680 00:23:28,434 --> 00:23:30,129 issue. Yeah. They they just want someone else 681 00:23:30,129 --> 00:23:31,730 to deploy it and then then they'll they'll 682 00:23:31,730 --> 00:23:33,109 put their workload on. So 683 00:23:33,410 --> 00:23:34,849 we tend to just look at the device 684 00:23:34,849 --> 00:23:36,609 that fall and deploy that. So it'd be 685 00:23:36,609 --> 00:23:38,450 nice if some of our customers had people 686 00:23:38,450 --> 00:23:40,289 who learn the device as well just to 687 00:23:40,289 --> 00:23:41,569 just to so when we are not that 688 00:23:41,730 --> 00:23:43,089 not around and they want to change it, 689 00:23:43,089 --> 00:23:44,769 then I've got other people to do that. 690 00:23:44,769 --> 00:23:46,505 Gotcha. And how about when you're out there 691 00:23:46,505 --> 00:23:48,505 training? You mentioned you're an MCT Mhmm. So 692 00:23:48,505 --> 00:23:50,984 a Microsoft certified trainer. Yep. Kinda what are 693 00:23:50,984 --> 00:23:53,085 the things that you point out to students 694 00:23:53,144 --> 00:23:55,785 to look out for? In terms of In 695 00:23:55,785 --> 00:23:56,765 in terms of 696 00:23:57,464 --> 00:24:00,779 maybe maybe not pitfalls of bicep, but here's 697 00:24:00,779 --> 00:24:02,859 some things that you should think about. And 698 00:24:03,099 --> 00:24:04,880 because like any other 699 00:24:05,259 --> 00:24:07,680 language, like it is a domain specific language, 700 00:24:07,900 --> 00:24:09,660 it's got a set of constraints and kind 701 00:24:09,660 --> 00:24:11,680 of guardrails in it and and and rules. 702 00:24:11,740 --> 00:24:14,315 Yep. But those also often come with new 703 00:24:14,315 --> 00:24:16,315 ways of thinking about things, and here's how 704 00:24:16,315 --> 00:24:17,054 you have to 705 00:24:17,514 --> 00:24:19,514 adapt your thinking. Or the way you did 706 00:24:19,514 --> 00:24:20,954 it over here in Arm might be a 707 00:24:20,954 --> 00:24:23,355 little bit an Arm template, a resource manager 708 00:24:23,355 --> 00:24:25,960 template might be Mainly around structuring the code. 709 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:27,159 So what I like to do is I 710 00:24:27,159 --> 00:24:28,839 put all the parameters at the top, and 711 00:24:28,839 --> 00:24:30,759 then I'll have the variables, and then I'll 712 00:24:30,759 --> 00:24:32,759 draw like a line and the styles across 713 00:24:32,759 --> 00:24:35,000 the code, and no hard coding from that 714 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,419 point onwards. So I try and teach people 715 00:24:37,454 --> 00:24:39,375 to make sure that the modules that you're 716 00:24:39,375 --> 00:24:41,934 calling, there's no hard coded locations. It's all 717 00:24:41,934 --> 00:24:44,595 parameterized at the top. It's all well documented. 718 00:24:44,894 --> 00:24:47,315 In Versus Code, you can use, a 719 00:24:47,694 --> 00:24:49,454 Versus Code Copilot and you can get it 720 00:24:49,454 --> 00:24:52,319 to document everything for you. Put descriptions above 721 00:24:52,319 --> 00:24:54,559 all your modules so that everyone knows what 722 00:24:54,559 --> 00:24:56,240 what the code does. I'm a firm believer 723 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:57,759 of leave the code in a good state 724 00:24:57,759 --> 00:24:59,359 so that some if I'm off, someone could 725 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:00,799 pick up the bicep and try and figure 726 00:25:00,799 --> 00:25:02,640 out what it's doing. I'll generate a diagram 727 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:03,839 as well and put leave that in the 728 00:25:03,839 --> 00:25:05,779 repo so people can see what I've deployed. 729 00:25:05,805 --> 00:25:07,965 Some of the pitfalls I always think are 730 00:25:07,965 --> 00:25:10,144 when you're using Versus Code as a beginner 731 00:25:10,285 --> 00:25:12,924 in anything, they say generate generate this for 732 00:25:12,924 --> 00:25:15,005 me and you never really learned, you know, 733 00:25:15,005 --> 00:25:16,605 I'm always worried that like you can let 734 00:25:16,605 --> 00:25:18,045 it fly from reading a book, but the 735 00:25:18,045 --> 00:25:19,410 minute you're sitting in a cockpit and try 736 00:25:19,410 --> 00:25:21,092 and fly a plane, you really struggle. So 737 00:25:21,092 --> 00:25:22,773 you need to get hands on and learn 738 00:25:22,773 --> 00:25:24,455 what things do. A good example is in 739 00:25:24,455 --> 00:25:26,137 a module in Bicep, you have the name 740 00:25:26,137 --> 00:25:27,818 of the module, you have the name of 741 00:25:27,818 --> 00:25:29,500 the deployment, and you have the name of 742 00:25:29,500 --> 00:25:31,182 the, like, the storage account for example, and 743 00:25:31,182 --> 00:25:32,864 those three names are different. And I see 744 00:25:32,864 --> 00:25:34,664 a lot of people creating the module called 745 00:25:34,664 --> 00:25:36,024 create storage and then they'll put the name 746 00:25:36,024 --> 00:25:37,704 of the deployment, create storage, and then put 747 00:25:37,704 --> 00:25:39,144 the name of the storage account, create storage, 748 00:25:39,144 --> 00:25:40,585 and then they'll start there and go, why 749 00:25:40,585 --> 00:25:42,664 is that not working? Because they haven't learned 750 00:25:42,664 --> 00:25:44,904 the reason these three parameters are slightly different 751 00:25:44,904 --> 00:25:46,720 even though they're all called name. So So, 752 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,240 yeah, there are one or two pitfalls of 753 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:49,759 learning it. But the other thing to do 754 00:25:49,759 --> 00:25:52,420 is if you're really stuck, deploy the resource 755 00:25:52,559 --> 00:25:54,640 using ClickOps and then go into the arm. 756 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,480 You can export the template. Now the feature's 757 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:57,920 coming out, but you can click on generate 758 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,080 bicep and it'll actually show you the bicep. 759 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,095 So sometimes you need to figure out, like, 760 00:26:02,095 --> 00:26:04,494 a good example might be TD encryption SQL 761 00:26:04,494 --> 00:26:06,414 Server. You deploy in the portal. You type 762 00:26:06,414 --> 00:26:08,014 the you type the portal, and then you 763 00:26:08,014 --> 00:26:09,294 can see the bicep and see what the 764 00:26:09,294 --> 00:26:10,734 setting is to turn that on. And that 765 00:26:10,815 --> 00:26:12,414 that's always a good way of kind of 766 00:26:12,414 --> 00:26:14,414 reverse engineering your bicep. I think if you're 767 00:26:14,414 --> 00:26:15,394 doing things like 768 00:26:15,694 --> 00:26:18,549 Azure firewall rule collections, the the documentation is 769 00:26:18,549 --> 00:26:20,150 quite tricky to kind of follow it. So 770 00:26:20,150 --> 00:26:21,670 you you deploy it by hand and then 771 00:26:21,670 --> 00:26:23,269 work out what goes where and then it 772 00:26:23,269 --> 00:26:24,390 needs to be in the right order. So 773 00:26:24,390 --> 00:26:25,830 that's that's always that's always a good way 774 00:26:25,830 --> 00:26:27,029 of doing it as well. That's one of 775 00:26:27,029 --> 00:26:29,430 the biggest pitfalls is figuring out what does 776 00:26:29,430 --> 00:26:32,309 the parameter mean? What what's it expecting? Yeah. 777 00:26:32,309 --> 00:26:34,234 Yeah. I do that with customers a lot. 778 00:26:34,234 --> 00:26:35,275 They they come in often 779 00:26:35,914 --> 00:26:38,075 they they I I think their intentions are 780 00:26:38,075 --> 00:26:40,234 good. Mhmm. So and and I I tend 781 00:26:40,234 --> 00:26:41,595 to be the same way. Like, I I'd 782 00:26:41,595 --> 00:26:43,194 rather get hands on with it than go 783 00:26:43,194 --> 00:26:44,954 read a book about it. Yep. And so 784 00:26:44,954 --> 00:26:47,930 I'll often just start opening Versus Code and 785 00:26:47,930 --> 00:26:48,430 and 786 00:26:48,730 --> 00:26:50,970 then, oh, it doesn't work. It's broken. But 787 00:26:50,970 --> 00:26:52,650 that trick of going to the portal and 788 00:26:52,650 --> 00:26:54,170 let me see how the portal does it 789 00:26:54,170 --> 00:26:55,930 because I I always used to when I 790 00:26:55,930 --> 00:26:57,869 was a trainer and and doing the 791 00:26:58,294 --> 00:27:00,775 the infrastructure exams, the the one point I 792 00:27:00,775 --> 00:27:03,515 always wanted my students to take away was 793 00:27:03,734 --> 00:27:06,775 the Azure portal, when you're deploying something or 794 00:27:06,775 --> 00:27:09,494 you are updating something, it is an ARM 795 00:27:09,494 --> 00:27:13,130 expression generator. Yep. So it it's great at 796 00:27:13,130 --> 00:27:15,049 expressing those values in a way that, like, 797 00:27:15,049 --> 00:27:16,410 you can go get to the end and 798 00:27:16,410 --> 00:27:18,509 and get the template. Get the ARM template. 799 00:27:18,569 --> 00:27:19,849 Great to hear that they've got get a 800 00:27:19,849 --> 00:27:22,809 bicep template coming. That that that's certainly a 801 00:27:22,809 --> 00:27:26,075 a nicety that's there. You also mentioned working 802 00:27:26,075 --> 00:27:28,974 in Versus Code, GitHub, Copilot, things like that. 803 00:27:29,034 --> 00:27:31,274 I haven't played around with ARM templates too 804 00:27:31,274 --> 00:27:33,355 much or really gotten hands on with with 805 00:27:33,355 --> 00:27:34,954 Bicep with GitHub Copilot, but I do a 806 00:27:34,954 --> 00:27:37,049 lot of PowerShell and Bash. Super helpful there. 807 00:27:37,130 --> 00:27:38,970 What's your experience been? Is is it a 808 00:27:38,970 --> 00:27:41,289 good Oh, fabulous. Good augmentor Yes. Where even 809 00:27:41,289 --> 00:27:43,470 for, like, new thing where it's Yeah. 810 00:27:43,850 --> 00:27:45,610 Yeah. You can actually one of the things 811 00:27:45,610 --> 00:27:47,289 that people might not know is I talked 812 00:27:47,289 --> 00:27:49,769 about AVM modules. You can go into GitHub 813 00:27:49,769 --> 00:27:52,525 Copilot and reference that external GitHub repo and 814 00:27:52,525 --> 00:27:54,365 ask it to generate bicep based off of 815 00:27:54,365 --> 00:27:56,924 that project. So instead of it gen writing 816 00:27:56,924 --> 00:27:59,744 generic bicep, it'll actually write bicep that's targeting 817 00:27:59,804 --> 00:28:01,884 the Azure verified modules, which is really good. 818 00:28:01,884 --> 00:28:03,505 So I use it to generate documentation. 819 00:28:04,045 --> 00:28:05,789 If I'm doing if I'm even if I'm 820 00:28:05,789 --> 00:28:07,470 doing bash scripts or I'm looking at someone 821 00:28:07,470 --> 00:28:09,710 else's script, I always do slash explain and 822 00:28:09,710 --> 00:28:11,470 it'll it'll explain to me what the script's 823 00:28:11,470 --> 00:28:14,450 doing. That's also very helpful. Mainly generate documentation, 824 00:28:14,909 --> 00:28:16,990 putting your variables at the top, making sure 825 00:28:16,990 --> 00:28:19,674 there's descriptions on everything, and kind of explaining 826 00:28:19,755 --> 00:28:20,955 I was trying to write a little bit 827 00:28:20,955 --> 00:28:22,394 at the top of the file on explaining 828 00:28:22,394 --> 00:28:24,154 what I'm trying to do. Like, what I've 829 00:28:24,234 --> 00:28:26,154 maybe I've taken a what I sometimes do 830 00:28:26,154 --> 00:28:27,994 is I'll go to the Azure Architecture Center. 831 00:28:27,994 --> 00:28:30,075 I'll look for the zero trust diagram. I'll 832 00:28:30,075 --> 00:28:31,914 deploy that as an example when I'm teaching 833 00:28:31,914 --> 00:28:33,674 someone Bicep, and I'll put in the link 834 00:28:33,674 --> 00:28:35,910 to the diagram, explain all of the resources 835 00:28:36,049 --> 00:28:37,650 at the top of the the Bicep file 836 00:28:37,650 --> 00:28:39,570 so that people have got some understanding before 837 00:28:39,570 --> 00:28:41,490 it's doing. Because that's what I tend to 838 00:28:41,490 --> 00:28:43,570 see is when people are deploying Bicep for 839 00:28:43,570 --> 00:28:44,930 the first time, they don't know how to 840 00:28:44,930 --> 00:28:46,529 make resources talk to each other. So someone 841 00:28:46,529 --> 00:28:48,054 will create a storage account, someone will create 842 00:28:48,054 --> 00:28:49,734 a manager of the entity and a SQL 843 00:28:49,734 --> 00:28:51,174 Server, and then they'll say, how do I 844 00:28:51,174 --> 00:28:52,455 get the manager of the entity to talk 845 00:28:52,455 --> 00:28:53,815 to the SQL Server to get to go 846 00:28:53,815 --> 00:28:55,494 to the storage account? And then that's where 847 00:28:55,494 --> 00:28:57,255 it starts to get tricky. You you just 848 00:28:57,255 --> 00:28:58,695 need to read the docs and spend a 849 00:28:58,695 --> 00:29:00,215 lot of time in figuring it out or 850 00:29:00,215 --> 00:29:02,615 deploy it manually and reverse engineer. That's that's 851 00:29:02,615 --> 00:29:04,109 the way forward. I think it's always been 852 00:29:04,109 --> 00:29:06,349 hard to figure out the Mhmm. Dependencies. Yep. 853 00:29:06,349 --> 00:29:06,849 And 854 00:29:07,230 --> 00:29:09,070 I don't know if there's just an easier 855 00:29:09,070 --> 00:29:11,390 way to do it. It's just the the 856 00:29:11,390 --> 00:29:12,910 way the system comes. Yep. If I give 857 00:29:12,910 --> 00:29:14,289 you a bunch of Legos, 858 00:29:15,150 --> 00:29:17,230 your Lego house needs to look different than 859 00:29:17,230 --> 00:29:19,595 mine sometimes. Yep. And sometimes that just turns 860 00:29:19,595 --> 00:29:21,115 into, like, oh, we dumped the whole thing 861 00:29:21,115 --> 00:29:22,235 out in front of us, and now we 862 00:29:22,235 --> 00:29:24,414 now we gotta figure out how that composes 863 00:29:24,634 --> 00:29:26,154 and and and how all that goes. Some 864 00:29:26,154 --> 00:29:27,835 of the other nice things is the Bicep 865 00:29:27,835 --> 00:29:29,515 configuration files. So if you're not used to 866 00:29:29,515 --> 00:29:31,115 that or you don't know about that, you 867 00:29:31,115 --> 00:29:32,875 can add a configuration file where you can 868 00:29:32,875 --> 00:29:34,335 say, like, don't show warnings. 869 00:29:34,769 --> 00:29:36,609 You can say, only use the latest version 870 00:29:36,609 --> 00:29:38,369 of AVM modules. That's a nice one. So 871 00:29:38,369 --> 00:29:40,049 if a new version of the module comes 872 00:29:40,049 --> 00:29:42,049 out, your code won't build and you have 873 00:29:42,049 --> 00:29:43,730 to go and change the code or you 874 00:29:43,730 --> 00:29:45,809 can make an error or a warning. Kinda 875 00:29:45,809 --> 00:29:47,009 kinda like, you know, I I might with 876 00:29:47,009 --> 00:29:48,775 the container. Yeah. Exactly. Say, hey, play all 877 00:29:48,775 --> 00:29:50,775 the latest image tag kind of thing. The 878 00:29:50,775 --> 00:29:52,134 one thing that we were talking about earlier 879 00:29:52,134 --> 00:29:53,575 is it would be nice to know if 880 00:29:53,575 --> 00:29:57,095 the underlying API has changed from version 0.12 881 00:29:57,095 --> 00:29:58,054 to 0.13, 882 00:29:58,054 --> 00:30:00,054 what are the changes? That's one thing we've 883 00:30:00,054 --> 00:30:01,710 we've we've asked for for some sort of 884 00:30:01,710 --> 00:30:03,549 feedback on, like, what was the difference between 885 00:30:03,549 --> 00:30:05,710 the previous API and this API? Because nobody 886 00:30:05,710 --> 00:30:07,309 really knows and it's really hard to find 887 00:30:07,309 --> 00:30:08,910 the docs. So that that would be an 888 00:30:08,910 --> 00:30:11,809 interesting nice change. I use I use Copilot 889 00:30:11,869 --> 00:30:13,230 all the time. And the more you use 890 00:30:13,230 --> 00:30:15,244 it, it starts to get frightening. You you 891 00:30:15,244 --> 00:30:17,325 start you may write Bicep for an Azure 892 00:30:17,325 --> 00:30:18,845 Firewall and it just knows that you're gonna 893 00:30:18,845 --> 00:30:21,005 write an Azure Firewall policy next. It's like 894 00:30:21,005 --> 00:30:22,924 it's like how did you know that? It's 895 00:30:22,924 --> 00:30:25,244 really, really smart. It's super useful and saves 896 00:30:25,244 --> 00:30:26,684 a lot of time. Thanks for taking the 897 00:30:26,684 --> 00:30:28,460 time to chat with me today. Thanks for 898 00:30:28,460 --> 00:30:30,480 having me. Let you get back over to 899 00:30:30,779 --> 00:30:33,820 MVP Summit and get some good learnings and 900 00:30:33,820 --> 00:30:35,900 and give us some good feedback and Will 901 00:30:35,900 --> 00:30:38,380 do. Thanks for coming in. Thank you. Thanks 902 00:30:38,380 --> 00:30:39,279 for having me. 903 00:30:41,180 --> 00:30:42,559 If you enjoyed the podcast, 904 00:30:42,875 --> 00:30:44,475 go leave us a five star rating in 905 00:30:44,475 --> 00:30:46,475 iTunes. It helps to get the word out 906 00:30:46,475 --> 00:30:48,715 so more IT pros can learn about Office 907 00:30:48,715 --> 00:30:50,174 three sixty five and Azure. 908 00:30:50,715 --> 00:30:52,315 If you have any questions you want us 909 00:30:52,315 --> 00:30:54,555 to address on the show, or feedback about 910 00:30:54,555 --> 00:30:56,899 the show, feel free to reach out via 911 00:30:56,899 --> 00:30:58,999 our website, Twitter, or Facebook. 912 00:30:59,379 --> 00:31:01,219 Thanks again for listening, and have a great 913 00:31:01,219 --> 00:31:01,719 day.

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Microsoft Cloud IT Pro Podcast

Ben Stegink, Scott Hoag

On the MS Cloud IT Pro Podcast, Scott and Ben discuss the Microsoft Cloud with a focus on IT Pros. They'll discuss the latest in Microsoft 365 and Office 365 News, Azure news and talk about their experiences with managing the Microsoft Cloud as well as interview industry experts on various cloud technology. They'll cover things such as SharePoint, Exchange, Microsoft Teams, PowerShell, Azure, Azure AD, Security, Networking, Storage, and the many other technologies and products that have made their way into the Microsoft 365 suite and Azure. To stay up-to-date on the latest in Microsoft Cloud news and gain some valuable knowledge as you deploy it within your own organization, make sure to tune in every week! Find out more at msclouditpropodcast.com.

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