[0:00] Music.
[0:22] The year is 2025. The name of the podcast, Babylon 5 for the second time. Welcome to Babylon 5 for the second time. My name is Brent Allen. And I'm Jeff Akin. Brent and I used to be Star Trek podcasters, but then we watched Babylon 5 for the first time and everything changed. Now we're watching this incredible series for the second time.
[0:55] Paying attention to all the things we didn't know or notice the first time around. And we're still going to be searching for those sci-fi messages that we find in this series. You know, those things that hold up a mirror to society, give us hope that things can be better in the future, or just tell us how to be better human beings to one another, or are just cool messages. And we're going to be asking what this episode was trying to tell us specifically we're going to ask jms what this episode was trying to tell us just as jeff said if you guys want to send in your own comment you can do it on our podcast notes you can also email us you can i don't know jeff you could send up a signal to a satellite somewhere we'll get it somehow contact form on our website we're on instagram now we're on uh what's the other blue sky now yeah yeah there's still a twitter all the socials yeah and it's still called twitter for us so anyway um hey jeff you know what what's that you know we love what there's there's a few things that we love here one of those things though is our amazing patreon folks we do over on patreon though there is a special tier called our council chambers you might figure out where that one came from our council chambers folks are joining us live for this recording and if you guys if you guys ever want to want to come in and just just a little shameless plug if you guys want to come join us for our live recordings uh so who knows we may pull in a comment or two from them over the course of the show possibly maybe we make no promises but we'll see it's there uh so hello to our council chambers folks you guys are awesome.
[2:23] And uh so we love you guys you're amazing another thing we love jeff our games we do love our games our games are changing for the show now though we had certain set of games in the first one Now it's a new show, new season. But one of those games that we loved the most is one of the things we got the most emails about.
[2:42] Was our predictions that's right unfortunately we can't do that anymore because we know we can't go back and see like yeah we just we can't we can't we can't predict things anymore so what we can do though is we can try to remember what we thought the episode might be about or just overall impressions of the episode as well jeff what do you remember about midnight on the firing line you know i was looking back at my notes for that and again i feel like we're just shamelessly plug in our patreon but you can access our notes our old notes from the first time yeah right over there it's a thing but uh which is good because that's where i had to go to uh to read them but i i was very curious still like i was very trying to be open-minded i was uh i felt that the characters still weren't fully fleshed out in a way that made sense to me yet and was still just kind of looking for that thing to like grasp on to is like yes i get this show and we're going to move forward it from I you know our notes evolved over time I look forward to that when I can read them when they make more sense but my impression from my notes was that I enjoyed it but still wasn't fully in on Babylon 5 and.
[3:51] Do you remember what you thought? Yeah. Um, I, I do remember not having any clue what it was going into it, uh, coming off the gathering, but I remember, I remember the overall plot. Some, uh, Centauri planet is randomly attacked and there it's Lando and Jakar blaming, blaming each other basically. And I think like they go on trial or something. I remember my overall impression of this episode though, was this is a weird first episode.
[4:16] Like it felt, this felt like a, should have been like a mid season. Like we should have been some buildup towards this. We should have known these characters before getting to this, to this moment. I do remember having that thought. I also remember though, just as a general impression, there was, there was a lot of changes from the gathering to this one, makeup, lighting colors. It's like they had money now to do stuff. And, uh, I remember those changes were generally very positive as we, as we went through. So yeah, those, those were my memories. And I, I still remember going, I don't know what this was about, you know? So yeah. Well, I'm curious to see how we come out of this one, knowing that we felt that way watching it last time. So that's what we're going to do right now. Actually, Brent is we're going to go watch the episode. If you're not familiar with what we've been doing here in Bible in five or our other podcast target SG one for the first time, we're literally going to watch the episode right now together. If you are with us on YouTube, you're going to see like the reaction video kind of cut up and all that stuff to be YouTube friendly. If you want to see the full unedited version of our reaction, you can head over to our Patreon page, which we've been talking about quite a bit.
[5:26] Patreon.com slash Babylon five first, the number five and the word first. And if you're listening to the audio, like on a podcasting app or audible or something of that nature, uh, we're going to meet you over there on the other side where we're going to share our thoughts about the messages that we uncover as we go through this episode for the second time jeff real quick have you or have you not watched this episode since our first viewing two and a half years ago haven't watched it a once since then true me too me too so let's go do it jeff i'm excited all right here we go ragged three music hadn't quite found its uh watch commander isla reporting for duty dude that those effects look so good that remaster Picking up disturbance. Dude, check the Sotari hair. It's all like spiny. No, it's not full at all. I mean, it's full up. There's no style. It's just quick.
[6:27] Music.
[6:33] Okay would you have noticed that do you did you notice that was a narn ship oh no i didn't i did not know like even now knowing it i still don't know that's a narn ship no could barely tell i missed together balding i love it oh boy feels so good to hear that all i'm asking is that you trust me trust you londo my brain will be five days dead before i ever trust a centauri the first time we met you people the first time we met any other civilization you told us you practically ran the entire galaxy pause does garibaldi ever come to trust the centauri no okay yeah i was just i was like did he actually get to a spot where he trusted at least londo or somebody and i don't think he really ever did yeah no not ever yeah in this piece here you told us you practically ran the whole galaxy empire come on public relations only that hasn't been true for almost a hundred years ambassador oh wow have you met my diplomatic staff just arrived from the home world our colony ragesh three our agricultural colony yes i know what it is i just love veer so much.
[7:36] Fighters wave after his teeth the way who launched the attack yeah no no one they're sticking to the fang thing like you well you can see steven first like trying to talk around the mouthpiece uh-huh you know i i.
[7:47] Just want to point out for posterity's sake that we just saw two future emperors of the centauri empire we did like did literally like bickering in the you know outside the zocalo around you know well we're a big deal we used to be a big deal and we're blah blah blah and hey our exposition exposition colony just got attacked those two dudes yeah see i don't like i i noticed the symbol on the ship now i even now i wouldn't look at that and go that's nar like i know they're narns because i do remember the end of this episode at this point was a dream given for nothing all right we don't say dream given form after the the season one intro do they i don't think so home away from home the name of the place is babylon five yeah for the second time ben over in our chat says uh that scene we just watched it's funny but establishes the centauri as an empire past its prime which londo is seeking to bring back it's like right this is a very boring intro piece right here like shouldn't there be a ship flying over at every something so sorry sorry didn't mean to go there it was a joke folks chill it's okay i just heard yes you have my sincerest condolences for your losses you know nothing about this attack jakar i'm as astonished as you are can you tell us something about the colonies.
[9:17] Jakar is just lying through his teeth right now. It's an agricultural base.
[9:21] Strictly a civilian operation. Then we'll call an emergency session of the council in the League of Non-Aligned War. We'll do whatever we can to help. They are really squeezing the exposition in. Like, it fits well, but... Well, I mean, they have to because they got to, like... It's been a year since the pilot. We're picking up a long-range stress signal from a ship to the secondary jump point. Commander Ivanova. Yes. Ivanova. She's a constant through this. She's an illusion.
[9:44] No, I just... Then you'll excuse me, but I'm in the middle of 15 things, all of them annoying. Thank you for coming by. Oh, that's a great line. That lady is going to break that other lady's heart. Think about it. That was their first, first, like, interaction. I'm looking at her right now as evil Talia. Exactly. Like, she's a sleeper agent, right? Not the Manbari. It's not their way. They're too honorable to pull something like this. Are they, though? I'm surprised. No, they're not. After all, you fought them during the war. I've never seen the Manbari fight dishonorably. So I'm going to come out right from Go and say it. You and I were pretty harsh on Sinclair as a character. and then Michael O'Hare is an actor. And we learned and dialed back the O'Hare stuff. But I almost fell asleep already during this. Listening to him? Yeah. Like, this is just boring. And it's not even the, it's Sinclair. The way Sinclair is showing up here, it's just like, get to the point, dude. They never pull a sneak attack. Perhaps. Any word yet on the election? That's going to become important. Yeah. I do not like Santiago. His chin, right? I've always thought that a leader should have a strong chin. He has no chin. And his vice president has several. This, to me, is not a good combination. It is not a good combination. I like how she pulled her shirt down. Right. You know? Ambassador, enhance.
[11:03] Enhance. Enhance. That is a Narn heavy fighter. Bastard Jakar. He said he knew nothing of this.
[11:14] Jakar. Jakar. Jakar. I like how he says it with that soft G. Jakar. Not Jakar, but Jakar. Would you like some Spoo? It's quite fresh this week. Spoo. We get Spoo this early. Wow. Even here. Quite fresh. Quite fresh because that's how the Narn like it. Strike back and we'll strike back hard listen to me ambassador your time is coming gone it's our turn now juxtapose that with we are one no i mean i mean but again you you at this point we have to look at these guys through season five and beyond characters that they come to know and watching him right now and just like wow this is so disparate from the jakar that we that we just left you know i totally get it though like he has that vim and vigor and anger of uh of a younger person than you know than we see in season five but also just that uh righteous hatred for what the centauri did to them and i think what's interesting me watching this now compared to before when we watched this the first time i just remember being like oh this this guy bad guy villain evil horrible right now i'm just like yeah totally makes sense that you made this i get it well no well Well, because here's you and I, like what I understand with this right now is I understand what the Centauri did to the Narn.
[12:39] I see Jakar's point right now. I'm kind of like, he's loving it. He's eating this up. He thinks this is a fair turn. Yeah. And he's kind of not wrong. Exactly. You know what I mean? It's never the thing to do. What was it we heard on something we watched recently on more death never helps anything, but still like they got nothing else. Yeah. But I mean, but we, there's no way we knew that the first time around. No. You know what I mean? Like, but, but I'm sitting here going, car's not entirely wrong.
[13:07] Exactly. Like I, I almost have more sympathy for Jakar than Londo in, in this. I have almost no sympathy for Londo right now. Same. Like I really, for this entire, like outside of it's an agricultural and innocent civilians and stuff, you know, you shouldn't do one. You don't repay kind for kind. Like, at least you shouldn't, you know, but that's what they're doing. And I kind of get it. I mean, it's where, I'm not saying he should have done it, but I understand. But I get it. I get it. I get it. I love Blondo's growl, too. It's a rawr.
[13:39] He's still figuring out how do we present our races here. He's got that gray coming in. I apologize for the incident with Jakar, Commander. We know how and sometimes even when we are going to die. It comes in a dream. No, but I remember what I get out of this. Do you know what we get out of this? Yeah, we get war without end here. Well, no, but do you know the specific bit of information that we get out of this outside of the choking each other out? They know their death. They see their death. More than that. More than that. 20 years. We got the 20 years. That's right. 20 years right here right here i i remember jeff you can go check my my reaction video when lorian first told uh sheridan um he's gonna have about 20 years i was like i immediately i was like that's how long londo said he had like oh here we go man it's 20 years from now and i am dying becky makes a great point here sorry i have to pause this becky makes a great point she says i I do love that on the first watch, you only see Jakar's rage, but on second watch, you see his pain, too. Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. So good, Becky. So good. Around someone's throat. The first time I saw Jakar.
[14:52] It's amazing to know that Lotto's like, in context, it's do this. Like, it's a favor. 20 years from now, we will die with our hands around each other's throats. 20 years from now, one of us will be wiser. Although he does say that Sinclair, it's 20 years longer for you to come to an understanding. Yeah. Yeah, I tell you what, though. Peter Jurczyk is acting his ass off right now. Like, this is the Londo that we know. So I personally arranged for him to have a higher position as head researcher on Ragesh 3. Only one thing matters, Commander. Blood calls out for blood. If Khan is dead, there will be war. Today, tomorrow. Blood calls out for blood until emperor turan says stop right but like this is the central, conflict for the centauri of you know time and we it's in this episode we're going to get it where delen is like at what point is it enough but this is a theme that just stretches throughout so much of the series but here's the thing blood calls out for blood yeah centauri took a lot of narn blood narn went and got centauri blood like that's again in delen's delen's point which is so good where does it end when when is it enough and i don't remember if karen is dead or not but there's still going to be more.
[16:11] That's what Dillon said actually here. Oh, did she? Yeah, Council Chambers Dillon. Hey. I swear to you, Commander. Great minds, Dillon. I'm checking into it now. Good. Keep me informed. Bottom of getting out there, poor Talia can get there. I am really watching, you know, in one of our recent Council Chambers sessions, I think it was Becky was talking about, you know, a group of other podcasters who are LGBTQ plus and were watching a lot of Babylon 5 and other things. And said from go, they felt that sexual tension between Ivanova and Talia. So I'm kind of watching for it. And I didn't get it in that first scene, but right there that we just watched, the way Talia kind of was like, oh, I got her body language there. I could totally read some tension. I didn't read that at all, but okay. I think I'm specifically watching for it now. I was going to say, it could be you're reading into it because you want to see it. But we'll see. What i forgot about the head doing that thing chocolate chocolate like a little light earlier i wanted to make sure you knew about the emergency session why because ruggish tree is too far too small too unimportant to risk a confrontation and besides by the time our ships got there.
[17:29] Besides, by the time our ships got there, everyone would be dead anyways. So. I love how touched he is by this. He loves his people. Volando always did. That's always who he is. He's always Centauri first. And he still thinks that his people should be the kings of the galaxy and all that sort of stuff. I will confess that I look forward to the day when we have cleansed the universe of the Centauri and carved their bones into little flutes for Narn children. God, I love that line. Be careful. I love that line. Every dream I've heard lately ends well for you. We've had plenty of experience with sneak attacks. Pearl Harbor, the terrorist nuking of San Diego, the destruction of our first Mars colony. It's a long and bloody history.
[18:18] Oh, I forgot that. Do you know what we learned from it? That the sneak attack is the first resort of a coward. Just a minute the nuclear bombing of san diego fast forward we see san diego all nuked out in that bureau 13 episode yeah right and then that's the end of that story to pick a military target a poorly armed civilian colony i forgot how great like him and jakar like they're just their whole like fu rivalry that builds up they want to fight it out let them just keep us out but at least after the election earth has to take a neutral position but that will damage the centauri case if we pull out others might do the same not our problem those are your instructions this discussion is concluded i really appreciate how um and we get some of this with uh gideon and lockley and crusade but the whole being on babylon 5 exposes you to so much more of the galaxy and people and everything and we're seeing that here with the senator who's sitting in earth dome surrounded by people from earth who has this viewpoint where sinclair even in this limited time has more of a galactic view and he understands that yes earth this and the galaxy that like he can see the.
[19:26] Bigger picture i i mean i actually find this very true of a lot of things in real life that there's the people with the boots on the field who are doing stuff and then there's the the broader the broader context of everything uh the medical community comes to mind immediately you you've got the doctors and the physician you know you got all those people making decisions with patients but then you got the insurance company sitting over there in an office who's you know like no we need this and oh well sorry and there's other other examples we could pull yeah but yeah you're right you're absolutely right for what garibaldi says the raiders are packing some pretty big guns and commander that might this is the sinclair i love to stand down i'm taking his place with delta flight again seeing the big picture no look if i'm at that meeting i'll have to do something i don't want to do so let it go on without me the last thing you.
[20:17] I like the chemistry between these two. Yes, sir. Crystal she is i was gonna say it's interesting she has an established relationship with sheridan when you meet sheridan she does not have the established relationship here, okay that was a much less press of launch sequence than ones we get later that was pretty slow i was gonna say vanova in proximity to sinclair humanizes and softens sinclair and allows him to step up and be a leader and this whole thing to go and fly the mission is just showing his big time strike how do i wiggle around the rules to find a way where does it end you kill them.
[20:55] They kill you and take the land back on and on and on a cycle of hatred justice not hatred we have no desire to start a war do you though remember way back we thought like the land and the minvari were just so wise and everything they said was just perfect example like everything she just oh look at that these yeah this race has really got it together the delin is still pretty good though i mean you know she delin has a wisdom beyond her years like again we're seeing delin honestly you know what's really hard for me right now is not seeing delin who gets jumped it off into the side chick thing that she kind of does at the end like and letting her be her own character right now but also remembering like she we also know where she comes from with ducat and how she comes on the great council is the new person and she she comes over here maybe she's here because she is the new person nobody else wants this job right like that's short a straw but she has this this innate wisdom because what she said there is gold it's so good yeah i mean we carried that line i talked about it till the end of the series yeah you know knowing what we know now i don't care about this raider storyline at all like i get why it's here you know and it makes sense for what sci-fi is and all that stuff and it's real part of babylon 5 earth forces role.
[22:18] Well but you and i know that this has this is a nothing burger on the show, outside of three we did not fire and i can prove it that's not true we have chosen of our own free will to ally ourselves with the narn government don't blink if you're being held hostage we will of course maintain social and economic ties to home world in the interest of continued peace This is Karn Malari, Roget 3, signing off. So, you know what's interesting about that?
[22:46] We get a glimpse. Now, it's obviously a forced thing, but we get a glimpse of a colony choosing to break away from its home world. Yeah. And that this is a thing that happens in this universe, right? That's a good one. Here, Suzanne has got a good piece just in the placing of everything. She says, look at Kosh watching Londo's reaction to all of this. Everybody should be watching Londo's reaction always. Always. Look at those capes.
[23:14] I like the framing of this londo jacar here they forced him to read that statement i want to talk about that framing for just a quick second yeah emperor malari emperor virkato jacar is the bridge between the two he is it's a good point like literally in that little framing right there is the future of the centauri republic well i mean even go back to the the time when they're helping uh jacar escape you know and they're killing uh cartagia and i mean that's that's the whole you're you're not joking like that's this is what the show is really about this is the story of londo malari yeah and literally that framing is the story of babylon five like there it is yeah this episode's it's freaking brilliant like this is this is listen i i actually mentioned this in the chat this is a great episode on a second watch yes in from the american russian and chinese states incumbent president luis santiago leads marie crane by 12 you look like He had a chin to me. Is that the only time we've seen a picture of Santiago? I think so. And what if I remember right? That's actually a picture of Doug Netter. Oh, is it really? That's funny. I think I saw that on Lurker's Guide.
[24:22] Look at me. Quoting stuff from the Lurker's Guide. Dude, she looks good for coming off shift. Here we go.
[24:28] All right, I'm watching for sexual attention right now. I'm just rude. I just wanted to know if it was me. There it is. Uh-huh. You're reading into it, dude. Were you raised by the quote? Uh-huh. The move that talia pulled right there is is the the flirty the whole like uh-huh like i'm taking a drink and like that's a that's a thing right there yeah i can i can see i can see how this would lead to something but i don't pick it up right here and i think where i pick up on some of it is a lot of it doesn't owe this lady anything right like i avoided you and i'm going to continue avoiding you and i don't like your your kind so like end the story but instead I want to open up and be vulnerable, unprompted even, because I want to connect. I know. I think that's just called being a mature adult. I don't know.
[25:17] People are what you are. They give you three choices. Again, you're knowing where it goes, so you're reading it into here. Also, we have to have this whole explanation of what psychores' options are. Drugs that inhibit your telepathic abilities. They caught up with my mother on her 35th birthday. For 10 years, a man in a gray suit came to the door once a week, and he gave her the injections. That makes a good point. Terribly strong. Is it dark, tall, hidden programming deciding up to who she thinks she can get close to? Further and further away from us. That! That I get into this right now. The light in her eyes just went out. And you want me to find Dodgers can you do it Dodgers this is my second favorite thing in the universe because there's no one knows his way around outer space like oh Garibaldi's not a dirt bag.
[26:05] I do remember the forced fake laughing here like it's just too over the top, over in the chat the consensus is it's more dark Talia influence I like that Incumbent president Luis Santiago, the victor over challenger Marie Crane. Santiago's campaign was based on a promise. Did you see his side that he let out there? Like, oh, crap. His agenda for the coming term includes creating a closer relationship with the Mars colony and a greater emphasis on preserving Earth cultures in the face of growing non-Terran influences. I still remember being like, I remember you saying that and like, really? You think so? And you're like, yeah, absolutely. I'm like, no.
[26:50] Commander? Commander, there's a problem. Commander? Suzanne in the chat pointing out how much we hated that Duck Dodgers scene the first time around. And I don't think I hate it as much, but it's just knowing who Garibaldi and Delenn are. That's not them. No. And I think a big part of my hatred of it was the laughter seemed so forced. Mm-hmm.
[27:12] That's not it duck dodgers is just not that funny and even if it is you're not laughing that hard at it no just not so although i could see delin's fake forced laughter just trying to match garibaldi's right even though she doesn't get it i i've certainly been there before oh yeah that's really great thanks for inviting me over ha ha ha ha right right all right brent well we just watched midnight on the firing line for the second time i don't know if you landed where i did on this one but what's your initial thought this is okay let me go back to my first thought on this episode this is an episode that makes no sense right here in this order is the first episode out of the gate this should have been like episode 15 20 something of that nature like we need more to know what's going on here and to and to uh really feel what's happening here i stand by that original statement because i and i said this in reaction this is an entirely different episode watching it knowing not just what's to come to see what do we get what do we get further as we get in we understand exactly what centauri did to the narn how how utterly awful what the centauri did to to planet narn and to the people of narn was we get it so when londo comes to confront jakar and jakar is just like yeah well we'll see what happens i don't know and even londo's like blood calls for blood.
[28:39] And I called it out in the middle. I was like, yeah, but y'all went and started some shit first, you know, like that's, that's on you, not us.
[28:48] Um, so I, I stand by what I said. This was an episode.
[28:54] To that, to really appreciate it, I mean, really appreciate it. You had to have a lot more information to do that. Now, that being said, I don't think this was a bad opening episode. This is not a bad out of the gate episode, you know?
[29:10] And, and I certainly see where this sets up. I mean, this episode sets up five years worth of storylines. Exactly. You know, the, the, the entirety of somebody in the, in the chat, I think it was our friend said um the entirety of babylon five is moved through the narn centauri war or the non-centauri conflict which which spans so much right like all of this happens against that backdrop so this sets up so much and and the journey that you and i went on the first time of discovering exactly why that was so bad was so good and was so valuable but watching watching this now makes this episode feel different than it did the first time uh the first time i saw it and god what a great episode this was this was a great episode i'm so excited for babel on five right now like yeah i'm energized and i want so much more because of exactly that you're right like this was awesome it was this is the perfect first second episode first second watch episode you know yeah Because we talked about it in, I forget if it was on this or our Stargate show, but we talked about the idea behind broadcasting, right? And in broadcasting, you say the thing that's going to happen, then you do the thing that's going to happen, then you talk about the thing that just happened.
[30:33] And there was some episode that did that really well and something we watched, but that's what this just did. In this episode, we know that Santiago is president and has a, according to Ivanova, suspect vice president. We know that there's this 20-year thing. We know that Londo and Jakar are at the center of it. We saw that framing of Londo to Jakar to Veer. We got the psych horror with Ivanova saying, you know, Talia, you're just as much a victim being in psych horror as my mom was taking. Oh, my God. Stop right there. Talia is as much a victim of the Psycorps. How amazing is that?
[31:17] Oh, my God. Yeah. And like we won't fully grasp that until well into the fourth season. Like we'll understand it, but not truly understand what it is to be stuck in Psycor. We'll get the underground railroad episode going on in season, that's in season two, I think, or maybe season three. Then we get all the stuff with Bester. And then in season five, right, we get Korra's mother, Korra's father that drives it all home. But this is, they just told us, here's what's going to happen. We're going to see it happen. and then we get to yeah this is i mean it's the perfect first episode for this story i love it i love it my god ava talia is a victim because she is it's not even talia right now you know it's just right talia right yeah and she's there under the surface because it's it's not that dark talia is lurking and oh no no it is this is talia but dark talia is like lurking and like does some stuff until she finally gets activated and flips or is this all dark talia no this she's like sleeper sleeper cell sort of a thing, just waiting to get activated. Yeah. So she's not activated right now, but still back there somewhere. I love the idea. Listen, I, we talked about this during the recording. You know, some people are talking about the sexual tension that exists even now between Talia and Ivanova.
[32:35] Jeff, you seem to be a little bit more on that side. I'm not on that side right now. I don't see the sexual tension outside of the idea that dark Talia is making uh headway in but i don't feel like avanova's picking up on it at all because avanova's so lost in her own stuff right now that that's there's no tension from her this is just i don't like folk like you we but talia i could buy talia maybe trying something here i think so i think and looking at i think it was more talia doing doing because it was her body language her face her you know little sippy and saying a thing whereas avanova i think like i have a little bit of a different view of Ivanova that I don't think I had even in the first view I remember coming out of this the the first time and even I have a note here that from go Ivanova is amazing like just yeah right away and we came out as the first time being like oh she's awesome I want more you know I have 15 things going on all of them annoying and all this awesome stuff but what I saw in this one is a hurt tortured soul who's dealing with her stuff yes yes avana was sitting there at that at that thing i mean she was just like look i wasn't really nice to you and you really deserve to know why and it's not your fault and again she's being a mature adult and owning her crap right now man we don't see that very much we don't see that very much in this no.
[34:03] So I do want to point this out. Our friend Suzanne over in the chat says talking about how much we now love the show. She says, can you guys now use that great time machine and go back and tell yourselves this from two years ago? To which my answer is no, we can't because we needed to be there in order to get here. That was a part of that journey. Here's this journey. This is where we are. This is this is such a good episode. And I can see Jeff people who've watched the show so many times who watch these two noobs come in and be like, what's this all about? This should be like episode 15, blah, blah, blah, blah. Are you kidding me? Do you know how awesome this episode is? No, I don't. No. Because it's my first watch. Do I know now? Yes, I do. Because it's my second watch. It's, oh my God. Yeah. Anyway. I'm going to love, I'm going to love this second time thing. I'm just, I'm so excited for this. Listen, listen, already I can tell you what you and I have just discussed here is exactly why we wanted to do the second watch. Yep. Yeah. Because this is the stuff we didn't get the first time around at all. At all. So cool. Well, Jeff, here's a question for you, though. We do the first time thing.
[35:05] What messages did we find? Any of those deep moral messages, those sci fi messages mirror to society, hope for a better future, how to be better human beings to one another? I'm going to take off the table. What Dylan said of you, because we've already discussed that on the last watch. But was there anything new that you found anything that made that just stood out to you in this particular episode? There was, and we talked about it during the reaction, but it was that there are people out there making the big decisions that are completely disconnected from the people who are actually doing the work or who are actually in the place.
[35:37] I think that was, yeah, it's illustrated really well with the Senator being like earth, earth, earth. And Sinclair being like, bro, there's so much more going on here. You don't see, we have to be able to step in and do these things. Yeah. And, uh, and that's another theme that has talked about through the entire series. Did you, did you catch any other things? Not really. I mean, that, that was, it is this episode is, I think on that level, what we saw was, you know, although I know actually I'm, I'm going to go back. I'm going to amend that. Yes, I did. and I talked about it, Ivanova being a big girl and putting on her big girl pants and saying, you know what? I wasn't a good person here. And I'm going to own that. And I'm going to own that. And I'm going to tell you why so that you know, because I might still not be a great person around you because I still don't like y'all, but you should at least know why I'm going to be a bitch to you. You know what? I love that. Not, not, not the, I mean, I love that she told her, but I love the thing where Tali's like, well, maybe we'll be better tomorrow. And Ivanova was like nope probably not i loved it because that's real it's not like hey this what's going on with me and we're all cool now it's good it's like no i still got my stuff i'm still gonna keep my distance from you i'm not listen just so you know this isn't a you this is a me thing but.
[36:45] This is how it's gonna be and she's got time she she needs to work through her stuff man, exactly well we are we talked earlier about the games that we play on this and this isn't so much a game although i think we enjoy it as much as our game this is a real fun part of what we do we are once again we've already created the absolutely objectively definitively correct ranking of all the episodes in season one of babylon five that's already out there yeah it's it's etched in stone and we're going to do it again watching the show a second time and this list will also be objectively and definitively correct completely unimpeachable in its accuracy and this week brent the honor falls to you where sir are you gonna place midnight on the firing line in the first season of babylon 5 oh gee where am i gonna place this one um you know what uh i'm gonna go ahead and call this our number one episode of the season so far what yeah i mean stop me if i do want to look at this uh in our original ranking by the time everything got to the end midnight on the firing line was number 16 on the season. Really? That's hard for me to believe.
[37:56] Prediction, uh, going to be higher this time. Probably, probably, but we'll see there are season one, right. Is much maligned out in the world, but I enjoyed season one the first time around. And I think what this is showing me now is I'm going to enjoy it even much more than I did the first time. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I agree. And that is exactly what Babylon 5 for the second time is all about and why you guys should join us for a rewatch of Babylon 5. You should. And we're going to keep that going. We just wrapped up midnight on the firing line next week, Brent. We're watching the second episode in the first season, Soul Hunter. What do you, Brent, remember about Soul Hunter? I remember this being a really groaner episode a lot. I remember this being one that was full of stuff that you and I continually made fun of, even through the movies. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Like, I mean, before we went on Mike, I was making fun of that episode. But I remember the big gun that he used to suck the soul out, which just looked so goofy. But I also remember this is where we really are introduced to that idea of the Mimari soul and the idea that something happens. And so there's certainly an important episode in building this world out.
[39:22] How about you, Jeff? There's a hole in your mind, right? Is that where we get this one from? I think so. Oh, yeah. Wow. Just huge. And if I remember right now, so I'm grasping it. I could be wrong, but if I remember right, this was around the time where costuming-wise and stuff, the Minbari were still supposed to be androgynous. And so there's some weird Minbari makeup that we run into.
[39:49] Oh, and Nia corrected me. Thank you. Hole in Your Mind was The Gathering. I think I just want to forget The Gathering and take the good parts of it and put it in other episodes.
[39:58] And Ron, back in, and Sarah. Oh, Sarah says it's also in Soul Hunter. So we'll find out next week where it is. But yeah, I just remember this episode. I was just, I think between this and then when we got to infection, I almost dropped out of Babylon 5. Like I'd... Did not like soul hunter at all. I, yeah. Yeah. I think I just, I just chalked it up to, I've watched a lot of 90s sci-fi and those first seasons can be really rough. And this is just one of those. Yeah. I'm excited. I mean, it's weird. I hated that episode and I'm excited to watch it next week after watching this one. And we're going to do that right here next week. Thank you all for joining us on this, the maiden void. Well, I guess we did do the gathering as a second time, but this is our first like in place and thing, you know, in the, in our new formatting and things doing the second time. So thank you for being here with us. Don't forget to subscribe wherever you're watching us, your podcast, watch your videos, leave us a rating and review. Please share this. You know, we've asked you to share this podcast. We've done it for the better part of two and a half years. Now is the time actually to do it. Like it was cool to relive your first time experience with us, but I do, this is going to be so much fun watching this for the second time with us. And I can't wait, Brent until next time i'm gonna wrap this thing up i'm gonna hit the outro before you can yeah what's up.
[41:22] I'm trying it's hard to talk when you have stuff in your mouth that you're just not used to front my eyebrows are covering my eyes i can't even tell what's going on I just, I have no outro. This is all I could think to do. When does Veer lose those teeth? Because he does not talk like that for the rest of the show. I hope it is very quick. And we, I hope, I hope those teeth get the hell out of this galaxy. Now get the hell out of our galaxy. We're sticking with that ending.
