Jeff: Welcome to Babylon 5 for the first time, not a Star Trek podcast. My name is Jeff Akin and I am the one who was,
Brent: I'm Brent Allen and I am the one who will be.
Jeff: and together we're watching Babylon five for the first time. For you, the one who is.
Brent: Jeff and I are two veteran Star Trek podcasters that have decided to take what we do as Star Trek podcasters apply to Babylon five, and just look for those messages. I. Babylon five is trying to deliver in its own unique way as we go through the series for the first time.
Jeff: Little thing. We like to call Babylon five messages at this point because this is a Babylon five podcast, not a Star Trek podcast. And as a result of that, we like to play this excitingly fun game that we call the Rule of three. This game limits us to no more than three references in total for the entire episode to Star Trek.
That's it. Three one of those trade. No substitutions. Exchanges are refund.
Brent: Jeff, do you remember like five seasons ago when we would be here talking and it was actually three references each, so we actually had six for the whole episode
Jeff: That was a season ago.
Brent: well, no, but way back, like five, like when we first started we would come, like we would hit all three, like by the time we finished the recap of the episode.
We'd be struggling. Like I can't, I'm not allowed to use one. Like,
Jeff: well, you know, some cool history there, and I dunno if we've shared this before, but we actually recorded the first three episodes of this podcast five seasons ago. Uh, and shared 'em with some really great friends who we know, uh, the Star Trek, podcasters, other podcasters in general. And the one piece of feedback we got overwhelmingly was, uh, this is a Star Trek podcast where you slip in pieces about Babylon five.
Like, oh,
Brent: We had to try to make, because you know what Jeff, this is not a Star Trek podcast, and that's also why we instituted the rule along with the rule of three, that when you do make a Star Trek reference, we're gonna hear. Now along with our rule of three game we play, there is another game at the end of the show, which that game is actually nameless. Uh, but we make predictions of the next episode based on title alone. We don't look at pictures, we don't preview the episode. We don't read descriptions. We have never seen the episode before we, we don't look at thumbnails, all that sort of stuff.
We just read the title and we go based on that. Well, this is the spot of the show where we look back last week to see just how right or wrong we were in a brand new game that we call.
Jeff: Time to pay the piper.
Brent: That's right, Jeff. This week we have watched the episode Objects in Motion. What did you think this episode was gonna be about?
Jeff: I thought we were gonna see where we're gonna, well, Jakarta were gonna take off and we were gonna see where they were headed and that, uh, we were going to get, um, Garibaldi and lease. Leaving for Mars. I also thought that Delaine and Sheridan were gonna leave for Minbar. This was gonna be the leaving episode, and they were gonna be talking about white star destroyers and babies.
Brent: Talked about leaving for, for Mars.
Jeff: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Brent: Jeff, what would you give yourself?
Jeff: So, um, Kar and Lita left.
Brent: Uh, yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They did.
Jeff: They left, they had their little, their little walk. Uh, we did not see where they went. Uh, Garibaldi and Lee sucked about it. And Delen and Sheridan talked about it. Uh, three things. Part
of one I'd
Brent: a walk.
Jeff: right? Yeah. Yeah. Right. Ooh, let's go For five, five miles. I, I'd give myself about a 35% on this one.
Brent: It seems a little generous, but you know what? We're here at the end of the show. I'm feeling generous. 35%. You got it, pal.
Jeff: We'll call it 70. Hey, what did you think this one was gonna be about?
Brent: Well, um, I said that this was gonna be Garibaldi enacting the plan that he and Lita came up with in, uh, the last episode, maybe two episodes ago. Uh, where he was gonna do something to hurt the sco and this was gonna be the big battle with sco. Best's gonna be back. He and Lita. I actually, I kind of really thought he and Lita were gonna take each other out, or, or, you know, garal did get the neural block removed.
That whole piece would be solved for him. That was, that was what I thought this one was gonna be.
Jeff: Yeah. Um, it says, I think two weeks in a row you're, no, that's kind of a, kind of a goose egg for you. Yeah.
Brent: Yeah, it'd been a whole lot cooler if it was.
Jeff: Sure would've been, Hey, this is the part, normally we talk about the, the, uh, the episode itself, but I wanna take a little exit here and let people know that we are just a few weeks away from our season five wrap up.
Brent: Oh my gosh.
Jeff: Yeah. Can you believe that?
Brent: Jeff, I honestly have like, we've been going so like focused on this. I've forgot about the wrap up altogether.
Jeff: Well, I, I got you
Brent: You even have it in the, in the notes here and my eyes glossed over it. Oh my gosh.
Jeff: It's like you're not willing tobel. It's like, I can't believe this. We're there. We're
Brent: I have our giveaway.
Jeff: Yeah.
Brent: I've had our giveaway since season three.
Jeff: I know. I'm so excited.
Brent: have it up here. I can run and go get it real quick. If you want me to. We can
Jeff: You know the, why don't you do it? I'll, I'll hype stuff up. You run. Don't, don't, don't. Don't fall or anything, like take care, be safe. But no, it's our season five wrap up. So a couple programming notes on this. So we've got this episode, the next one, and then the, the finale. So season finale, series finale. I know it's wrong, but that's the train we're gonna ride.
And then we'll do our season five wrap up. This will be a wrap up of just the fifth season. We will in the future have a series wrap up, but that'll be after we do the movies. Um, we're kind of figuring out how we're gonna address crusade. Uh, we've got the autobiographies. We're gonna kind of get that first exposure to all things Babylon five.
And we'll do that as the season wrap up in the future after those things. But in the meantime, we're gonna wrap up season five and with a thing that we've done through. Every season so far. And one of the, the hallmarks, one of the things we so look forward to every time is a giveaway, right? And we've done a couple things for the giveaways, right?
We've had Babylon five models, we've had star theories. Um, we've had the Babylon five encyclopedia. We had the, I think the John Sheridan action figure, Brent's getting the giveaway this time. But we're gonna follow what we did in season four for this. And that is we are gonna use the same little macro I built, uh, last time, gosh, almost like, almost six months ago.
Wow. Um, but we're gonna take an existing patron and they'll be the one that Excel randomly spits out for me. Um, and that's who's going to win this cool prize that Brent's about to bring up. Uh, all you have to do is go to patreon.com/babylon five first, that's the number five, the word first. You can subscribe at.
Any tier, and we have tiers for whatever you can possibly afford, ranging from like a dollar on, on, up to, to more than that. And the tiers offer a lot of cool stuff, right? Um, we have, uh, the, the V level that I think is just, just outright support. Um, and then we get a level where you get access to our notes, you get a little higher, and this is where a lot of people tend to land.
You get unedited access to both Brent's and my reaction videos. And that's for pretty much all of the content that we're putting together. Uh, we don't put all the stuff up there. Some of the projects that Brent has on the channel. Um, the unedited piece would be, uh, very long. Um, but yeah, so you get access to a lot of that.
And then one of my favorite tiers, Gets you access to our discord. We have a Discord server with an incredible community. And if you listen, uh, to our audio podcast, we often have kind of an ad on there talking about it's really cool to be a Paton and a member of our Patreon, not just because of the support you offer, which is so appreciated.
It allows us to do all this content creation and you know, it's cool and it doesn't only give you access to the cool stuff that we're putting up there, but it also lets you be a member of a thriving, supportive, and incredible community of people. That, to me, is the favorite, my favorite part of everything that we do.
So, to get put in this drawing for this thing that Brent's about to reveal, go to babylon patreon.com/babylon five. First, the number five, the word first subscribe. If you're already a subscriber, guess what? You're in, you're entered. It's all good. So, Brent, what are we, uh, what are we giving away this time?
Brent: Well, here's the first thing. Alright, Jeff, first of all, have you ever like gotten a package boxed something? You put it someplace so you don't lose it,
Jeff: Of course.
Brent: and then somebody comes along and moves it and you don't know where it is?
Jeff: That's another way of saying that. You just don't remember where he put it, but that's fine.
Brent: No, no. I put it here and somebody moved it anyway. Um, so we'll say what this is. Uh, yeah. Our good friend Wash,
Jeff: Yeah.
Brent: he made up these awesome models of Babylon five that we used for our giveaway for season one. He made up these awesome models of Star Furies. I, I have a couple of 'em back here behind me, uh, that we used for season three and then now for season five, he is back with some cool models.
This, I don't know if you can tell or not.
Jeff: How is that the Earth Force logo?
Brent: yep. Earth Alliance. This is actually a holder. I've tried to not, uh, uh, I I think he's, I think I have three of these. Jeff. We have three of these to give away.
Jeff: Oh my gosh.
Brent: I'm so excited for this. I'm so, so, so dang excited for this look. Oh my, Jeff, this is awesome.
I, I'm, we only have two of these to give away.
Jeff: Okay.
Brent: There's only two.
Jeff: only two, not three. 'cause there's three in the bag, but only two to give away.
Brent: Are you ready?
Jeff: Follow.
Oh my God. Oh, look at
that
Brent: this looks.
Jeff: dude. That is like,
Brent: This is legit. Uh, for the audio folks. I'm holding a P p G in my hand.
Jeff: at the texturing on the handle.
Brent: this is, and it, and it's, you know, dual colored. It's not just all the same color. There's this thing is go, this thing fe It feels good in your hand too. Like it's, it's nice and thick
Jeff: That's like screen
ready.
Brent: Oh yeah.
This is, this is amazing. Like, This is absolutely amazing. So, uh, we've got two of these to give away.
Jeff: That's awesome and all you have to do, go to patreon.com/babylon. Five first, click the link down below in the notes. You're gonna be entered for one. No. Oh my God. Look at
Brent: So what Jeff is freaking out was I just took the P P G and I set it on the stand. That is the Earth Force Alliance logo.
Jeff: now we only have one to give away.
Brent: Jeff, this is, this is amazing.
Jeff: Huge,
Brent: prop from the show, I would take this home with me.
Jeff: huge shout out to wash. That is, that is incredible.
Brent: is awesome, awesome season five giveaway right here. We'll give away more than one and we'll leave it at that.
Jeff: Fair enough. Fair enough. I love it. Well, hey, we've talked about this long enough. Let's get back to the episode as Brent tucks those away somewhere very beautifully. You're good? Oh yeah. Making some choices. Ah, it's gonna look good up there and get your entry in there quickly, right? 'cause we've got this episode and then two more episodes and then the wrap up so I can see it.
That looks great.
Brent: Oh, so good.
Jeff: That's super good. Well, hey Brent, a little bit ago we were talking about our predictions for this episode. So for people who haven't seen it in a while or maybe need their memories jogged about what objects in motion is all about, can you step us through this episode?
Brent: Would love to.
It's your normal, average, ordinary day on Babylon. Five ships are coming and going. People are passing through customs. One of them is a bad guy that you're not really supposed to notice. The other is a good guy, or in this case, a good gal who's causing a commotion. As Zach tries to deal with the situation, Franklin is walking by and here's a familiar voice and so do we.
In case we didn't recognize her face. Turns out the person causing this ruckus is Tessa Holleran, but you may remember her better by her code name number one from the Mars Resistance. There seems to be some kerfuffle about her Martian passport and earth still not recognizing mars's independence and not pushing paper by yada, yada, yada, yada yada.
But no worries. Franklin is there to vouch for her. There are some pleasantries exchanged. It's soon, it's down to business. She's here to find Garibaldi. Franklin takes her to his quarters. It's Garibaldis quarters, not Franklin's. 'cause we just have to be clear on that 'cause Well, you know, Lisa's there and Garibaldi is, um, detoxing loudly in the bathroom.
He's throwing up all the alcohol that he's been drinking for the past few months and he comes out seemingly not even having washed his hands or brushed his teeth. And number one set. And number one says that she's here to warn Garibaldi and lease. There's been a hit ordered on both of them. Why? Because when Earth fell, all those major corporations that were making Bank on Mars have been compromised for all their shady dealings and lease and Garal and Lease and Garibaldi are the perfect people to expose them.
So they must be silenced. They take the issue to President Sheridan who quickly latches onto the idea from Zach. What they're gonna do is hide Lisa and Garibaldi in new quarters, kind of the same way they did veer a couple episodes ago. And then just as they're about to leave Babylon five, they're gonna throw a sham going away party for them.
And Jaar making that the only opportunity that the assassin will have and well, they'll just simply beef up security and I guess nab him before they shoot anyone. Everybody got the plan? Okay. Ready break. While they're preparing for that and the shady assassin is dressed all in black works out his plan on converting a handling so he can keep track on.
On Comms. Jcar and Lita are making their own plans for an exit. The Jcar Idol worship is growing to a full on hysteria. So Jaar goes to visit Lita to propose the idea that he and Lockley came up with in the previous episode. Neither can go home, neither can stay on Babylon five, so they'll just go together out in the open.
Lita actually doesn't trust Jaar. She thinks he's still just after her d n A and Jaar is genuinely taken aback by this idea. That's why you think I'm doing this. Well then I see My decision was more correct now than I ever thought it was before. G'Kar leaves the cell to make final preparations, but just before going, he bids lead of farewell.
He. And asks her to consider the walls around her and if she's gonna take them with her when she goes well, shortly after it's time for the big goodbye. On his way out, Jaar meets the maker of the idols. He dismisses the man who has poured everything into this venture to just come and sit at Ja Car's feet.
He says G'Kar owes him, and Jaar says, neither him nor his feet owe this man anything. Jaar blows him off as he heads off to the celebration. Out on the Olo, a crowd has assembled Garibaldi Lee, JCAR Sheridan are all on stage. Speeches are being given, cheers are being cheered, and that's when both the assassin and that spurned Narn I talked about just a moment ago, make their move.
Security manages to catch the assassin, but they miss the Narn who takes a shot at Jaar, but he winds up hitting lease in the shoulder. She's out for the countdown in med lab. Grab Garibaldi, grabs the assassin, drags him to Lita. That is after promising he wouldn't lay a finger on the assassin. Drags him to Lita, who probes deep within his mind and discovers that it was in fact the entire board of Edgar's Industries that ordered the hit.
With that information, Garibaldi heads back to lease and when she wakes up, they finally do something they should have done a long time ago. They get married and now that Garibaldi is officially an owner of of Edgar's Industries. He leverages the alliance's new head of Covert intelligence, Tessa Hollerin to dig up all the dirt she can on the board and blackmail them into resigning.
And with that, Garibaldi and Lisa are off to Mars. Kar and Sheridan are. Sharing a meaningful and touching goodbye as Dakkar and Lita head off to find adventure or see if adventure finds them. Franklin and Tessa are off to Franklin's Quarters with consent this time leaving Sheridan Delin, who are the next to leave, but before they go, they're gonna take a walk around the station, all of it.
Jeff, what are your thoughts on objects in motion?
Jeff: So all of those things happened. That's kind of my thought. We get, uh, we get a storyline straight from like season one or early season two to fill time and move the plot forward with the, uh, with the assassin and stuff.
Brent: How? Well, here's a question if I can just ask. How many times have we done, there's an assassin on the station bit.
Jeff: a good chunk of times, a good chunk. And especially my, I think my favorite part of this assassin one is that, uh, Tessa, uh, couldn't just call Garibaldi and tell him like, she had to come all the way out to let him know this thing. And it was, I mean, the, the, like the cliff hang was totally just like a season one.
Like, oh yeah, so it's us. It's why, why are you here? Because I have to tell you. Someone will kill you. Babu. Yeah. It's just like, oh my gosh. Really? I mean, I get it right? The point of this episode was the goodbyes and, and wrapping threads up and, and all of that. And, and that was great. I thought it was really well done, but the plot itself was just like, oh wow.
We okay. Okay. Kar was Kar great stuff. Garibaldi was Garibaldi cool and Franklin got laid. I mean, everybody, everybody got a good thing out of this one. Everything here was, I mean, it wasn't bad at all, and what I'm saying makes me, it sound like it's bad, but it was just like, this is everything that we knew was gonna happen and here's how it played out.
And it played out fine. And so, okay. I think, I think I'm more interested, I think they've done a lot of work in season five to like set up cool spinoffs and they set up two cool ones in this one like, I want the Jcar and Lita tra scene through the Galaxy Show. Yeah, that's fun. I wanna watch that. I wanna watch Garibaldi doing corporate intrigue, like he walked in and owned that board.
I want that show. You know, I'm, I'm here for that. But yeah, this one is one that was needed to happen. It happened, it was well executed. Uh, I don't have a whole ton of notes on it. You kind of covered the things that happened. I've got a handful, but, uh, yeah. What about you? What were your, uh, what were your first, first take on this one?
Brent: Well, my first take on this is especially seeing Lita in Kar fly off into never and ever Land. I think we can officially kiss Seeing Bester again. Goodbye.
Jeff: Yep.
Brent: Cora's mother, Cora's father is going to be his last hurrah. There's one more shot, Jeff. There's one more shot.
Jeff: Brent, you'll notice. And for the audio people, I'm holding up a pen. There's no ink left in this. I have written my letter. I have it in the envelope to send to J m Ss. We got one more week
Brent: Uh huh.
Jeff: and I am, I'm sending that bad boy.
Brent: Yeah. I mean, unless this is actually what that, that whole thing was from season four that got lifted and thrown over, which I don't think it was like,
Jeff: I doubt it.
Brent: you know,
Jeff: it.
Brent: uh, anyway, um, as I wrote here, there's no use pining for the episode we didn't get, so let's talk about the one that we did.
Jeff: It's fair.
Brent: Uh, it was a good episode.
Jeff: It was.
Brent: This is a good episode. This is a fine episode. Is it exciting? Does it make me be like, yeah, I wanna watch that episode again. No, but it was a good episode.
Is it a laundry episode? Maybe a, a laundry episode. I might like stop folding socks over and just watch the episode. That kind, it's that kind of a good, um, I was thoroughly in for the entire episode. I wasn't looking around distracted going, oh my God, when's this over? Like, there's none of that happening.
We got the next chapter in. Where is everyone gonna be when the show is over? Garibaldi is now married.
Jeff: Yeah,
Brent: I think this is about the episode. We thought he was married in last, last year as well. Um, he's taking over Edgar's industries. You, you mentioned that, and I'm sitting here thinking Garibaldi might be a better fit for corporate Mars than he ever was for security in a space station.
Jeff: totally.
Brent: Like, I, I really want to see what this, what this guy can do, especially in a, in a place with resources and, and you know that obviously he's entering into a cutthroat world.
Jeff: And he's cut out for it.
Brent: Yeah, exactly. Exactly
Jeff: he's literally, I have a very specific set of skills, and those skills are,
Brent: right. Um, his replacement is in place back on Babylon five. In, in Tessa coming over. Lida and Jaar are finally, uh, off on their next great adventure. So goodbye to them. I think we're done seeing them. I don't think we'll see them in the next episode. Uh, I loved the interactions between, uh, Lida and Jaar, and we're gonna talk about more of that as we get into this episode.
Uh, Sheridan and Delan are gonna be heading off for their new home on Minbar as soon as they get done with their walk. This is an episode that is tying off loose threads. It's just not the threads that I thought they would be tying off. I still have questions about those dangling threads. And, and look, I mean, Jeff, it's, it's not like we haven't gotten out of seasons before where every single question has been answered and or, or that there's dangling threads left out there.
Jeff: Yeah,
Brent: Like, so the idea that we're gonna get out of the series with still having some dangling stuff left out there that's unresolved.
Fine. Looking at you, great egg. where
Jeff: got two episodes.
Brent: where
Jeff: Two more episodes.
Brent: like, you know, looking at you Epsilon three, we're gonna save this in our back pocket. Pull it out when we really need it. Okay.
Jeff: episodes two. You got two more.
Brent: Oh my gosh. I think, I think Best and Garibaldi in the neural block in his head. That's just gonna be something for the, for the, the novels to have to figure out, you know, I, I just think that's where we're gonna be, which is okay. It's totally okay. I just, I feel set up.
Jeff: I, I am genuinely curious though, with, with some of these things that are still hanging, like we've joked about setups for spinoffs. Was the, was there an intent for that? Because like, we know they had the crusade, you know,
Brent: What is crusade? What is that? We know that there's all these movies. Did it, did any of these movies address these, these sorts of things. That'd be cool.
Jeff: And you know what? To, to every, to, to settle everyone's thing. If that is the case one, please don't tell us. We're going to watch, we'll see. Also, don't yell at us for being upset about this. We're just watching the series right now and we're feeling like, where's the stuff?
Brent: Where's the stuff we
Jeff: if it comes up after that, cool.
Brent: yeah, yeah. Yeah. That doesn't, that doesn't mean that I hate this episode or that I, I don't get this episode. Or, or, you know, the, uh, just, just enjoy the episode you got. I'm enjoying the episode. We got. I'm also lamenting it's, it's not that my prediction didn't come true,
Jeff: right.
Brent: it's, I just have questions that are left unanswered.
Do you remember Babylon? Not Babylon. Five Battlestar Galactica. Jeff, did you ever watch the reboot while it was actually on tv?
Jeff: I, uh, watched it after its initial run.
Brent: Okay. In its initial run on tv, when it gets to the end of season four, when it's, when it's hyping, the last like five episodes or so, maybe 10 episodes, all the marketing on tv, I remember this really well, was all your questions will be answered.
Jeff: Oh,
Brent: And I got to the end and I went,
Jeff: so many questions.
Brent: Sorry. You might want to bleep that. It was so many questions still left unanswered. I was like, what do you mean? All my questions are gonna be answered? No, they're not. That's this. You know, I just, I've got some things dangling that I'd, I'm, you know why? Because I'm invested in the show.
Like I, I wanna see what happens. Right? Right. But, uh, o overall I, good episode. Good episode. Interesting. Just where we are in the placement of the series though. That, that, this, you know, uh, yeah. Yeah. That's it. So
Jeff: Yeah.
Brent: Jeff, you said you didn't have too many notes. Uh, W where I've got, I've got a handful, but I don't know how much is gonna dive deep into, so what, what do you got?
Jeff: Well, I think, uh, the biggest takeaway for me in this whole episode, and this is pretty substantial, and again, to your point on placement in this series, I feel like this should have come a long time ago, but the links molecularly bond to you. There's no adhesive.
Brent: We've known that,
Jeff: Have we?
Brent: we have known that that's not new information.
Jeff: I thought there was an adhesive we joked about like Garibaldis, Harry Hands.
Brent: And, and, and that's, you know, it is possible, honestly, somebody told us that in a comment, but I, I know that I have, that was not new information to me at all.
Jeff: Oh, because I knew they were tied to your d n A. There was the d n a I got
Brent: and it's, and it's, it's a molecular bond to your, to your sy So it's just a boop boop boop. I still, I still say it pulls the hair on the back of his hand, but still,
Jeff: it's got
Brent: you know, but even if it's not Garibaldis hair that it pulls because he is in universe Jerry Doyle's hand.
'cause it really is adhesive.
Jeff: yeah. There's no molecular bonding happening to Jerry. No. Uh,
Brent: tape on the back of that sucker.
Jeff: so number one, or, uh, Tessa comes on the station and she's making a big stink, and she's like, I am a duly elected official of the gar, she said the provisional Mars government or the Mars government. But now she's got this full-time 24 7 job as director of covert intelligence.
So, There are states, mine being one of them, that have what they call a citizen government, where being a legislator or whatever is not a full-time job. So is that how Mars is set up? Because seems like she gave up a pretty important job for another important job, but uh, I found that interesting.
Brent: I mean, the fact that she could just, within the span of a 45 minute episode, resign, submit her resignation and accept a new role, start the new role,
Jeff: Yeah.
And do a ton of work. She came up with a ton of stuff.
Brent: Although I do have to wonder if she, that wasn't literally like, Hey, I'm gonna make a phone call and get everything you need.
Jeff: Yeah. Well they were on Mars, so she probably had a lot of this already.
Brent: Yeah. That's what I mean. That's what I mean. Now I gotta tell you about her. When she first came on, I didn't recognize her face.
Jeff: Really.
Brent: I recognized her voice. I went, I know the voice. Who is this? And, and it wasn't until Franklin walked up and I was like, oh, it's number. Oh yeah, it's that girl.
That's right. Uh, I need to make a correction, Jeff. I think, uh, maybe in the last episode or two episodes ago, I said something to the effect that, you know, during the Earth War, the whole Mars thing really wasn't that important. There wasn't that much that went on. Um, Franklin broke it all down of exactly why Mars was super important to the war and what happened.
And so I'm gonna retract that statement because Mars was super important to.
Jeff: Yeah. Yeah, that's very fair.
Brent: In my head, like there's, there's just so much you're trying to keep track of. I was like, oh, what did they really do? They
Jeff: Yeah. My only other big note on the Garibaldi stuff is when Lee got shot. He had to have this moment of like, oh crap, we didn't get married yet. I'm gonna lose the company. Like all that money. No, no. It would just, and then as soon as he is like, Hey, I got a minister outside. He's literally just like, look, they said you're gonna be fine.
I'm not sure. We gotta get this ink to dry real fast. Also, I love you and I wanna marry you, but uh, but can we get married real fast please?
Brent: Right, right. Um, I like that scene, Jeff. I don't, I don't know how this is gonna hit you or not. Okay. He goes, uh, I, I've got a minister standing by. And, and he goes, Baptist, right? And she's like, yeah, reformed. Okay. Just so people know, that's my history right
Jeff: Oh, wow.
Brent: Yeah. And, and he goes, oh, don't worry.
It's not for like last rites or anything like that. Yeah. Jeff. Um, BA Baptist, don't do last rites.
Jeff: Yeah. That's a very Catholic
Brent: That's, that's not a Baptist thing at all. Like reformed or otherwise. We, we don't do last rights.
Jeff: And ironically, Catholics actually don't either. That's a, that's a holdover from a long, long time ago. So, last rites. Last rites haven't actually happened since like the mid sixties. It's been a long time.
Brent: Interesting. I love the fact that she said she was reformed because I'm also sitting there going, yeah, you're not acting reformed at all, Lisa. No.
Jeff: I found the timing of it where, 'cause she's like, yeah, yeah. Uh, first Baptist, pause. Pause, reformed like, and I'm like, well, can you be first and reformed?
Brent: yeah, that's, that's another thing that like. I mean, yeah, I guess you could, because I mean, first Baptist is, is not, there's nothing special about First Baptist. It's just a name that people take, like, you know, uh, but it, it's, yeah, it, it, it, it's a very weird name for reform. Honestly. Most reformed Baptists don't call themselves Baptist.
They just call themselves reformed. So,
Jeff: Really. Okay.
Brent: Yeah. Most, not all, most that I'm familiar with, I, lemme put that ca that I'm familiar with. I, I can't say that I have the caveat on everyone out there who claims to be reformed or Baptist or both. Um, but yeah, that's, that, that certainly, that certainly figures into, to my past and my history of, of where things are and, and anyway, um,
Jeff: Then I thought Garibaldis goodbye was, was pretty emotional,
Brent: was Sheridan at the end, dude, Sheridan's had some really emotional goodbyes,
Jeff: Yeah.
Brent: like, and rightly so. Like, like I. I mean, I think it just goes to show how great of an actor Bruce Box, box Lightner is and, and how much, um, I'm not, I don't wanna take anything away from Jerry Doyle, Andre Kalis, or any of those things.
Having she and having Bruce Box Lightner in there to do a goodbye scene with elevates the whole scene. The, the, the I, I'm sorry, the, the Kar Sheridan goodbye scene. You have these two actors in a room talking, bouncing off each other, having this moment saying, there were, there sure were some times I wanted to deck you.
And just being able to maintain emotion through, I wanna punch you in your freaking face was pheno. I mean, that is a masterclass in acting happened. I was just, it was phenomenal.
Jeff: The end of that conversation when he is like, uh, you know, That's the first time you ever called me John. And then he is like, no, it's not. Yes, it is. And how like they did, they, they, they tempered that from like a moment of like, Hey, wait a minute, this is a thing. And then they like ramped the tension up just enough and then they like took the air out of it where, I mean Exactly.
It was just like, oh,
Brent: What, but how did they take the air out of it?
Jeff: They just,
Brent: No. What? It was a smile. They took the air out of it with a smile and then walked away. It was like, oh my word. It just
Jeff: That's powerful.
Brent: It was such, such a good goodbye. I literally in that moment when he said, okay, goodbye, John. I don't remember if I said it out loud in my, in my reaction video or if I was just thinking it.
I was like, he's never called him John before,
Jeff: Oh really?
Brent: because nobody calls him. Delin calls him. John sometimes is doesn't call him. John Ivanova never called him. John Lockley, who was married to him does not, is still not on a first name basis with him. Yeah, I think his sister called him Johnny. Like
Jeff: Yeah, I don't think his dad called him Sheridan. I think his dad probably called him John also, but
Brent: I think his dad called him son,
Jeff: son, yeah.
Brent: you know, so, um, yeah.
Jeff: What else do you have?
Brent: Oh, man. Uh, okay. I'm gonna, I'm gonna back up and just kind of hit a run through of these and you can go Yeah. And then move on and, and I'll just, I'll kind of read down these. Uh, so when Franklin brings Tessa to, uh, Lisa and Garibaldis quarters and Garibaldis in the back, just retching everything and Lisa opens the door.
Franklin, come on in. Who's your friend? Who's your pout? He is a thin wall away of just blah.
Jeff: Yeah.
Brent: I'm like, lease honey. Do not invite them in. You just, you have them stand at the door and you go, hi. Who? I don't even know you other person but you. You're interesting. Hi Franklin, what can I do? Yeah. Michael's not feeling really well right now.
Like that's how you handle that. You don't let him come in. And I said it in the, in the whole deal. I'm telling you, Garra, Baldy walked out without washing his hands and he sure as heck didn't brush his teeth after all that, like at all. I was like, oh, oh, we're not gonna pause the show to let him wash his hands and brush his teeth.
I get it. It was still fun. It was, it was played for laughs. It was fun. I get it. It was just, I was like, dude, come on man. Uh, also this, when, this is specifically from when Jaar walked in to see Lita and he's standing there and it's just him and a doorframe in a really blank wall. I'm looking at him and I, for the first time I went, look, I was looking at Ja Car's outfit and I was like, that would be a.
Dope cosplay.
Jeff: Oh yeah.
Brent: I want that costume that the, the, just the textures and the everything about. It's like, I don't necessarily wanna put the prosthetics on my head, but that co like, I want that in my closet. Man, that was a, that was a cool outfit.
Jeff: That was a cool scene though, with him and Lita, the, the, the whole thing.
Brent: Let's dive into that. I actually, I want to dive into that with you and, and I, if you don't have notes on it, just riff,
Jeff: I have a couple, but yeah.
Brent: Um, so Elita says this, her abilities are still growing. I did, she said because of my growing abilities, her abilities are still growing.
Jeff: Isn't that, that's terrifying.
Brent: so, they're, they're growing ability.
It's not just she's had these abilities and she's coming more in tune with them. Her abilities are actually growing. That you said that's horrifying. Yeah. 'cause we talked about that. It, was it last week with like Lita being a doomsday device or something, right?
Jeff: Yeah.
Brent: Like,
Jeff: But it makes me wonder what did the Vons think was going to happen? Hey, we're gonna augment you, enhance you, give you these abilities, but they're not really going to come to fruition for like another year and a half or so. Um, like
Brent: I surely the LANs could have like pushed the EV evolution button and made it just happen.
Jeff: maybe.
Brent: Like is is she literally a tick time bomb?
Jeff: Yeah.
Brent: more this grows, the more this. I mean she's gonna fall on a obscure US here, just explode one day.
Jeff: Well, I don't, I don't remember. Mind war when Iron Heartd kind of ascended. Didn't he go out? Yeah. 'cause he did like, it started with him in that ship and like he had this big psychic burst and it killed the people on this transport. And then he got in a ship and went out on his own and basically exploded into the big Mr.
Clean guy that will see in a million years, apparently, uh, even though we went a million years in the future and didn't see him, but hey, we only
Brent: though that was, that was Cycorps jacked up version of trying to replicate that. This is the pure Bolon advanced version of that.
Jeff: Which makes, it just makes me wonder what is that, the chart that she's on the path where it's like she's gonna have these abilities, she's gonna do stuff, but she's gonna get to a point where maybe because it's the pure stuff, it won't be as violent as it was with Ironheart, but she as an individual, basically ceased to exist and she'll just become this transcendent, she'll become one with the universe
Brent: I, and I mean, maybe there's just something where being connected to the, remember like we saw that scene of like her, like sucking caution in or him sucking like whatever. And that sounds really dirty. It's not like that's literally what we kind of saw happen. Um, it makes me wonder if there wasn't something like she needed that to keep control
Jeff: Like that was the lon, like te, it's like gardening, tending the thing and making sure now, and now it's just running wild. It's hulkamania. It's limania going wild.
Brent: exactly. Exactly. You know, it, it definitely does make you, uh, make you go, huh. I loved, I. I loved what Jagar had to say here. He, he's, you know, talking about him and Lita and, and he's like, yeah, we are the same. And Lee's like, we're not the same. You don't know anything about me. Right? Kind of doing that whole deal. And he goes, we are the same. He says, we are, but the sum of our tears too little in the ground is not fertile.
Too much in the best of us is washed away. My reigns have come and gone. Yours are just beginning. Wow. That is, that is deep. I don't know that that's some big message or whatever, but I mean, talk, that's why Jaar is a freaking religious leader and what he's writing in these books just makes so much more sense.
Jeff: exactly.
Brent: holy cow. Um, but then he goes on, which I think is just an amazing thing. He says to Lita as he leaves, I mentioned in my recap, consider these walls in a little while. We will leave these walls behind. Now you have to decide how many others you will bring with you when you leave. Wow.
Jeff: was profound, profound.
Brent: The idea of what are you, what, what are you hanging onto?
What are you clinging to that is keeping you shackled.
Jeff: These are the choices you've made. These choices to hold, to bring these walls to, to feel this way. Oh
Brent: yeah. Um, Lita comes in, she incorrectly assumes jaak car's motives, and he's legit taking back. He says, I see my direction. My decision was more correct than I thought.
Jeff: Yeah.
Brent: He's like, do you, do you really think I'm just here for that? Like, you know what, I know that feeling here lately. Do, do you, do you really think that little of me, like, is that really, um, I don't wanna dive too more into this because this is gonna come back to the message that I have later that I wanna discuss, because I think it's a, it's a phenomenal message when we look at it and one that frankly, I think I would probably do better to learn from myself.
Jeff: Wow. Okay,
Brent: Gonna fully own that. It is. I'm not speaking from, uh, I've got this mastered yet. I'm speaking from a, I'm still in the middle of it type of a deal.
Jeff: I look forward to it. That'll be, that'll be a good discussion.
Brent: Uh, you know how we've, we said when we got, uh, we got Talia and she turned into evil. Talia, she was the best. Talia, but it was right at the very end. And when we got, uh, Lito, when Lita went, when Lito's gone, all powered, powered up, super doomsday device.
This is the best lito we've ever seen,
Jeff: a hundred percent big time.
Brent: Uh, there's somebody else that is the best of this person we've ever seen, and it's happening really right here at the end.
Jeff: Yeah.
Brent: Zach,
Jeff: Oh my God.
Brent: this is the best Zach we have seen in the entire run of the show. He is in charge. He is doing what he needs to do. He's got a plan.
He is running his business. He, he is in a uniform that fits, you know what I mean?
Jeff: good.
He's loving it.
Brent: so good. So good.
Jeff: We went like just, yeah. Literally went from the guy who refused to wear the uniform. 'cause it was itchy. And because Garibaldis coming back anytime now to now he's coming up with plans, even Garibaldis. He's just like, wow, that whoa. Did, like he, he, I don't think we were ever high on Garibaldi in his, that's not true.
I used to talk about how extremely competent he was in his job and then he basically took three seasons, two, three, and four to prove me wrong. Um, but we have Zach just, I mean he is on all cylinders all the time and he's so cool about it. Just like, yeah, I got this fine,
whatever.
Brent: Mm-hmm. He, he's coming, you know, garibaldis like overstepping his bounds in accident and they're like, dude, I got this man. Like, it's okay. I
Jeff: And he is not taking it personal. It's not an attack. It's not, it's just like, I got it. It's fine.
Brent: Yep, yep, yep. Yeah. I mean, it was, it was like, ever since Garibaldi got got shot in the back, he just, Turned bad at his job. Like, you know, which actually makes him really good for corporate Mars,
Jeff: Exactly. Go do that.
Brent: Uh, so Jahar has had a couple of really good lines. He has another one when he's meeting with the dude that made the statues, which, first of all, at the end of that I was like, a thousand percent that dude's gonna try to assassinate Jaar.
Jeff: Yeah.
Brent: there's no doubt that that's how that was gonna go. Um, but I thought Jaar was a thousand percent right in that whole deal.
He could have handled that guy a little bit better. But Jaar is also just a dude. He's not somewhat ever, uh, he is not responsible for the choices that that man made.
Jeff: Right.
Brent: You went through all this stuff, you came here, you did all this. I don't owe you a thing, me or my feet, I'm sorry you made that choice.
This is not what you need to, you should have done, you built me up to be something that I'm not.
Jeff: And that's, that's a you thing, not a me thing. He capped that with the line that I was just like, oh, punch in the gut. The guy says, he is like, you owe us without us, you're nothing. And Jahar just says, well then I'm nothing. Good
Brent: That's what he wanted.
Jeff: Yeah.
Brent: I don't wanna be something
Jeff: Yeah.
Brent: I don't, I don't owe you.
Jeff: That was, that was so great. But I think it also speaks so much to what we talked about last week with Kars thing.
If it's easier to build a statue than improve yourself, well, not only do you build the statue, but you also attach yourself so much to that, that this thing you've created, you believe that that owes you, you're responsible for it. Like you are what you are because of me. And it's like, that is one, it's not true.
And two, like to Ja Ja car's point, you made me a thing. I don't want. I'm, I'm literally running away from an imaginary monster that you created.
Brent: So, so let's, uh, let's go the other way around. Okay. Let's say Jaar did want to become something. Does he now owe them for making him that thing he wanted to be? Does he owe it to do, do the way that they want it to do? Does he owe them to, to be available to do things again? To do things? How they want it to be done, to be on their schedule to like,
Jeff: no. And I'm gonna make this extremely personal and, uh, for us, and I'm gonna be very vulnerable and I'm gonna take a risk with our community right
Brent: uh,
Jeff: You and I started this podcast quite, I know. Yeah, yeah. Just, just have it ready,
Brent: Tread. I think I know where you're going. I just tread lightly, buddy.
Jeff: I'm going to, but, and I'm gonna, and everything I'm gonna say, I'm, I'm saying with, with gratitude and, and I'm not saying anything negative about anyone, and I think we've actually explained this to a couple of people, but we started this podcast for two reasons.
Essentially. One, to watch Babylon, five, two to hang out and make good podcasts. Like that was the goal. We did this for us and we found success early and we built on that success. And we are extremely grateful for the success. And when I say success, I'm talking about you, you that are watching this, you that are listening to this.
And there are vast array of that community from people who are just, you know, just doing the downloads and listening and watching and that's awesome. All the way to people who are truly financially supporting us in this show. And we've run into situations where there are people who felt because they were financially contributing to the show that they had the right.
To tell us how to run what we're doing. Um, and we value your input. In fact, we have a whole tier of our Patreon dedicated to hanging out where we talk about, Hey, here's some ideas we have. What do you think? We want your input. We want to engage, you know, we wanna make stuff that you're interested in. That doesn't mean you get to tell us what to do.
Uh, that doesn't mean you get to tell us how to do it. There are people, we put out reaction videos every week, right? We make content across a number of different things now, and there are people to this day who are like, I need you to do it this way. I, you did this, I, I I want you to do it like this. And it's like,
Brent: Can I, if I can just say something on that, Jeff, real quick. Uh, 97% of the people who comment and interact with us on those reaction videos are phenomenal,
Jeff: Oh yeah. Without
Brent: and 97 might be too low. Like, like you're really talking about a. Handful of people.
Jeff: Well, gosh. And even some of the people I'm talking about here, there's no ill intent. Like in their mind, they're helping us, you know, do this. It'll make your product better, and thank you so much for that. There are literally, I'm gonna say three, like three people out there who are just like, yeah, I hate this because of how you did it.
You need to do it this way. And I'm here giving you money, so you need to listen to me. And I think all of that to say, and come back to answer your question, we're not obligated to do that. We appreciate the input. We appreciate you being here. We've incorporated things that you've suggested a hundred percent, but there's nothing that says that we owe anybody any, all, all I owe Brent, I owe you and I owe me to put out the the Good podcast and do the fun thing that we agreed to do going on two years ago.
Like that's, that's it.
Brent: the, the only thing that I feel that I, that I'm obligated to people to do is to. Bring me
Jeff: Show up.
Brent: to, to, to, but to bring me, to bring my real peace. I am a work in progress. I am on my journey just as you are, just as every single person out there listening to, to us right now. We're all works, we're all on our journey.
I'm still learning. I'm still growing. There may be some places where I'm a little further down the road than other people. There are other people who are further down the road than me that I'm looking towards, you know? Um, that's the only thing that I'm, that I'm planning to be is me. I, I'll be honest, that's the thing.
I, I will owe you honesty. I will honestly deliver, you know, thoughts, opinions, uh, in process works. You know, uh, it would be really easy. Uh, no, I don't know if that's the right word. Um, it would be easier if in every reaction I just bsst it and loved the episode.
Jeff: Oh yeah.
Brent: You too. You do your own reactions as well, Jeff.
Like, like it, it would be so much easier to just go through and, and be high on everything.
Jeff: Here you go. Here's the thing. You said you wanted.
Brent: But to, to be, to be honest, is a level of vulnerability that you open yourself up towards. And, uh, it, it just sort of is what it is. I did for the record. I did, I did not set Jeff up for that.
I did not plan on talking about that. Those are, Jeff did that all by himself. So if you have problems, Jeff, at Babylon five first gmail com.
Jeff: That's where you get it out. Wait back to this. What other notes do you have?
Brent: Yes. Um, so Zach's plan worked. I thought it was an awful plan, by the way.
Jeff: Agreed.
Brent: Like,
Jeff: Hey, hopefully we'll find the guy.
Brent: but then we're gonna give them this one shot to get you and hopefully we'll get him first. Like, I get it. They had to find the guy or else he would've just followed them back to Mars or wherever they went.
Like, like they had to do something. But, uh, you know, it still involved putting Garibaldi and lease at incredible risk. Uh, when Garibaldi goes to grab him and takes him to Lita, and Zach's like, come on, Garibaldi. I, you know, I can't let you do that. There is nothing Garibaldi should have been able to say to change that
Jeff: exactly.
Brent: all.
Jeff: That should have been the end of the conversation.
Brent: I won't touch a finger. Sorry. That's twice in one.
Jeff: That's two. Yeah.
Brent: Sorry. I'm sorry you No, you are, you're going to do something to him. No, and guess what? The very next shot, Aldi's got him by the scruff of the neck and throwing him into the thing with Lita. Like,
Jeff: Yeah.
Brent: and then she has him basically mind rape this guy.
Jeff: Yeah. FLA him
Brent: yeah,
Jeff: and she was having a good time too. She's like, oh, forgot to carry the seven
Brent: this heaven, which I'd laughed so hard when she did. Oh, oh, oh, you got distracted and let me in the back door. And
Jeff: night night.
Brent: then I went to some, you know, dirty places with that, but whatever.
Jeff: I liked this assassin dude. Like the casting on this was
good. His
Brent: best assassin guy we've seen, seen in this entire show.
Jeff: He fully competent. Good plan. Like this. This guy was the real deal.
Brent: yep. Yeah. He all dressed in all black,
Jeff: Yeah.
Brent: which I love. I love that. I love, he's all dressed in black. Um, and it was the entire board of Edgar's Industries,
Jeff: Yeah.
And they would, and they'd agreed to like keep, you know, back each other up the whole thing. And, and we saw that play out where they're just like, oh yeah, I don't know. Uh, it was this one guy and he could, he fully confessed in his suicide notes. So not us,
Brent: Right. Which you're like, wow, you just had that dude. Take the fall for all of you
Jeff: all of that. And Garibaldi is like, no, not, not today, my friends. Not
Brent: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, by the way, that board member guy should have been John Reese Davies.
Jeff: A hundred percent
Brent: That's a thousand. Should just, he just should have been that, uh, Gar Baldi though came in being his own boss man. He put a hit on every one of those board members' heads.
Jeff: Yeah.
Brent: And here's the thing. You remember when lead's like Yeah. Vere. I will, uh, I will go ask them to return dead bodies to you for half a mill and Vere's like, uh,
Jeff: I got four. Is that enough?
Brent: Gar Baldi put a hit on five people's heads for a hundred k a piece.
Jeff: Yeah.
Brent: For the
Jeff: he did
Brent: For the same price that Lita went to go ask to get bodies back.
Garibaldis got hits on five different people ready to go.
Jeff: the most amazing part of it is it's in the 23rd, the later half of the 23rd century. And he did that using a paper check.
Brent: I didn't even think about that. You're absolutely right. Oh my gosh. Oh my word. Um, hey, back up to Leada just for a second. Uh, I said last week, remember lead's in the, in the cell and like, she like makes the little camera explode and all that kind of stuff. And you know, I was like, she's only in that cell because she allows them to put her in that cell.
She's only being restrained 'cause she allows them to restrain her when she goes into this and she just busts the handcuffs and jaar iss. Like, if you could do that this whole time, why didn't you? She's like, eh, it just made him feel safer. She like,
Jeff: You know, in, in that moment. And I, I have no right to speak to this, so I'll just put it out there and I won't speak to it. And if I'm outta line, call me on it. You, you can, Brent, or people that are watching or listening. But in that moment, I felt so many skilled, talented, and intelligent women who have to dumb themselves down in a corporate or life environment to help other people feel safe where while they're there, and I felt that was a tiny little scene that spoke volumes to me about, uh, women's experience in the per, in the, in the working world.
Brent: I, I cannot speak to that. Uh, outside of that rings true from what I know of women who work in that. The pe women that I interact with, they share that same sentiment.
Jeff: yeah.
Brent: Um, oh
Jeff: I wanna roll back real quick to Jaar. Um, so he, uh, he left, he, he brings up bab com and he recorded a delayed delivery message that we never got a follow up on.
Brent: Well, I assume that's a, a message to Delin. 'cause he didn't get to say goodbye to Delin.
Jeff: Yeah, that makes sense. Maybe.
Brent: That that was the whole thing. Like, do you wanna say goodbye to Delin? Ah, yeah, but she's not gonna be back in time for us to say bye. And he goes and records a message. I, I, I'm just assuming that's who it's due.
I
Jeff: It might, yeah, I just, my note was just literally, yeah. My note was just, I don't know to whom, and I don't know what, and I wanna know what it says.
Brent: idea.
Jeff: I talk about that three episode radius that we have for like plot points like this. We have three episodes, so, um, please don't let this be another dropped plot
Brent: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You, you do something that, uh, that direct and we kind of
Jeff: Yeah. We gotta know.
Brent: Yeah. I, I loved what he said though. Uh. He says, perhaps we'll find something extraordinary to, to lead as they're heading out. And perhaps something extraordinary will find us. I love that sense of adventure, that sense of life.
Just let's just go and see what happens. Who knows where we're gonna come across. I like, if I got old and I retired, and maybe not that old, but you know, of a certain of a certain age, and you know, let's say we're retired and, and we've got some income coming in that doesn't require us to go clock in every day.
Right. Uh, to just get in the car and go,
Jeff: Just go.
Brent: stop where you wanna stop, go down that road that you've never been down before. Like, let's go see what happens and see what comes across. And you, you absolutely said the spinoff, like that spinoff just would be phenomenal,
Jeff: Be
awesome.
Brent: I bet there's a set of novels about it and, and I want to, I want it.
Um,
Jeff: surprised at all.
Brent: all right. I got, I got, uh, Oh, I do got a couple things here. Uh, just, just to put this out, Jeff, uh, Franklin and Tessa, this conversation between them where they're flirting with each other and they're getting ready to go off and kind of do their thing, being in relationship and stuff, nothing, nothing seems outta ordinary to me about that right now.
Jeff: Yeah.
Brent: But I did note you have a black man and a white woman having this conversation. This is in 1998, an interracial aspect. I wonder, like, I just don't remember how different did that hit in 1998 seeing like, to, to me, I'm just looking at, I just think whatever, but I remembered, you know, that, that time and I'm like, I feel like I should remember 'cause I was actually an adult then, like just barely.
But I was an adult. Like how, yeah, I just, I.
Jeff: I feel like TV was doing a, a better job at this point in like making that a, nor normalizing it on television. I think in most of society it was there, but it hadn't really been normalized as much,
Brent: But it was very normal with Babylon five. 'cause go back to Talia and Jason Earnhardt again. A black man, white woman. Perfectly normal. Go back to Ivan and Talia. Two women. Uh, I'm sure if we think about it, there are other, other, uh
Jeff: Well, when Marcus and Franklin were supposed to be married, that was my favorite moments
Brent: Oh yeah.
Jeff: It wasn't like, oh, they're gay. It's just
Brent: and they're
Jeff: they don't love each other. Yeah. And in a racial gut. I didn't even Didn't even think of it.
Brent: Yeah. Forget the gay thing. They're inter I mean, we're just on that side. Uh, don't forget the gay thing that that's, that's important, but, you know. Um, anyway, but listen, Jeff, for five seasons, you and I have gone all in on Franklin just being creeper. and inappropriate and can't handle his stuff. This time he got it right.
Jeff: he did.
Brent: He asked for consent. She gave consent. He made a plan. More power to you buddy.
Jeff: Yeah, it was
Brent: Like go, dude, you know, same, same consent he had in Walkabout. Like just, it just, I was like, Hey, listen here at the end we're gonna say bye to Franklin. Good way. Good
Jeff: Yeah, send him off. Good. Send him off. Good.
Brent: yeah. Like I can, I can stop hating Franklin now. I think
Jeff: Yeah. I Team Franklin here. This guy,
Brent: the t-shirt. I want The thumbs right here says team. I'm Team Franklin with the Babylon five logo and it's just the thumbs. That's the t-shirt right there. Call Fabio, let's get him on. Um, here's a question for you. The Alliance has been building new facilities on Mbar. This is not new. We've had this since the beginning. Didn't we also start this season though, with the Alliance trying to buy Babylon five from Earth?
Jeff: That's right. Whatever happened to that? I.
Brent: Did the deal fall through? Because we got new facilities on mi. Like, so he's leaving and I, I'm guessing Lockley is gonna stay in place
Jeff: Probably.
Brent: Like, I just,
Jeff: Yeah. Good question. Another drop thing?
Brent: what's what? Well, I don't know that it's dropped as much as just unanswered, you know? Um, and then, and then, uh, oh, did you notice the name of the spaceship that Garibaldi and Lisa were leaving on is the Kafka,
Jeff: Okay. Yeah.
Brent: s the sci-fi writer guy, the big sci-fi. Then obviously J M Ss would totally throw
Jeff: It would be a big, all about. Yeah. It's very
Kafkaesque.
Brent: I've got, I've got one more thing I want to bring through. And this may actually tow the line between messages, but it's not the one I really want because I don't know that they were coming out with it.
Uh, this is something, this, this is a Brent message. Okay. Uh, Garibaldi at the end, he's talking with Sheridan, I think it is, or something like that. And he, he talks about heading off to Mars. He's gonna get married, and he says, you know, maybe we'll get out there and I'll be able to have a chance at a family of my own and a chance at a little bit of happiness.
Um, now I will tell you, as a parent, my kids bring me the ultimate happiness in life. They really do. I love being a parent. It, it's hard work sometimes, but it's worth it. There are things in life I've had to set aside, and I'm happy to, like, my, my, the things that I used to want to do, I no longer want to do.
I love my kids. They're amazing. I love being their dad. They are not the source of my happiness, though.
Jeff: Exactly.
Brent: is an intrinsic thing because that thing comes and goes. That thing will wear on you. Happiness really needs to be an intrinsic thing, not getting it. Think of the incredible pressure you'd put on kids to say, you better do this, or, I'm not gonna be happy.
My happiness depends on you.
Jeff: Yeah, and I'm nine. Like, what am I supposed to do with that?
Brent: Exactly, exactly. I, I get what Garibaldi was saying. I, I get where he was going from, but it just really struck me of like, no, no, no, no, no, no. You need, and I'm not even saying he has to figure this out before he has kids. Just happy. You've got to learn how to be happy without the, if, if you're not happy without this stuff, you're never gonna be happy with this stuff.
I think that's really where I'm coming down to like, like you're just, happiness is a, it's a different deal altogether. You just, honestly, I think it's an attitude. It's a choice
Jeff: A choice.
Brent: you make. 'cause circumstances are circumstances. You can be happy through any circumstance. That is a choice you make.
Jeff: Yeah. Other people. Your spouse, your partner, or your significant other. Your kids, your friends, your coworkers. You can find enjoyment. You can find fulfillment even through and with them, um, you can find disappointment as well. Uh, but yeah, happiness is a you thing. And I think that's, it's so important to understand that.
I think, you know, especially as people in committed relationships, whatever that looks like for people, that's work. You know? And one thing I hear so often is, uh, you make me happy. I you can't leave because you make me happy. And it's like, well, actually, that's part of why I wanna leave. Um, I I can't handle that
Brent: putting too much on me, like,
Jeff: Yeah.
Can't handle that responsibility. What you can say is, I want to be with you. I enjoy my time with you. I find fulfillment in our relationship, but ultimately I'm gonna be happy or unhappy with or without you. Like, that's, that's a, that's me. That's all on me. And I'll tell you what, that's a hard thing to keep in mind sometimes, but that like the path to true happiness is understanding that.
Brent: Yeah. It, it, it really is. I just, I, I find so many times people put happiness based on their circumstances. Not on their attitude through those circumstances, you know, uh, circumstances can suck. They can be hard. Happiness is a, is a different deal though.
Jeff: Yeah. So what we heard a couple weeks ago, uh, might have been Lisa who said it, where it's like, uh, there is no life without risk. There is no normal life. So yeah,
Brent: It's,
Jeff: gonna happen.
Brent: same idea. Yeah.
Jeff: time things go south, you're gonna be unhappy. Wow. Good luck. Good luck to you. Or we're diving into it, I think already.
So let's just make it official, Brent, in this. Show that we put together, we come to a point where we boil the whole episode down that we just watched and talked about, what messages does it have for it? What morals does it hold up? Does it hold a mirror to society? Does it give us hope that things might be better in the future?
And ultimately, if it does those things, does it do it in a way the only Babylon five can possibly do it this week? You have that responsibility, my friend of rating this episode on a scale of zero to five white stars as to just how strong that message is and how much was Babylon, five uniquely capable of delivering it.
So, so lay it on us.
Brent: Yeah, I think there is a handful of lessons. The one I just talked about, I don't think was a lesson the show pulled. It's something that I'm interpreting on top of just something that was said, right. So I I, I don't wanna necessarily give the show credit for that 'cause that's not what they were going for.
But I do want to go back to the scene between Lita and Jaar in the cell. And I think this is a theme that we can really probably apply. You talk about that three episode radius, we're probably gonna be able to continue to apply this, but certainly today, with as many goodbyes as we saw, Jaar says to Lita before he leaves, I ask you to consider these walls.
We're gonna leave them soon. You need to figure out how many walls you're gonna keep bringing with you, what you're going to be, what you're gonna take with you from here. Uh, and you get to make that choice. We see Garibaldi heading off to Mars. Franklin's gonna be heading back to Earth. Uh, Sheridan and Delin are gonna be heading off to Minbar.
Kar and Lita have headed off into the, into the great yonder. What are they taking with them? Uh, Garibaldi had to let go of his job. It's something that basically was his defining mantra. It was his, it's the thing that took him away from Le Lease in the first place. He left lease all those years ago to go do this job as, as his role, as his title.
And he lost lease for several years because of that. Right? Uh, he had to leave that behind and leave that in in Tessa's hands. Sheridan, way back at the beginning of this season, actually at the end of last season, had to leave behind the role of captain of Babylon five so he could go do some other things.
Now, he kind of stuck around Babylon, five maybe appropriately inappropriate. He certainly had some places where he overstepped. We saw him through the course of the season, kind of struggle with that line that he said, listen, when it comes to politics or policy with the alliance, it's mine, but otherwise everything's yours.
Except for the times when I decide I'm gonna overstep your bounds anyway, you know? Um,
but what are these pieces you're gonna take with you? The, the, the negative, uh, ideas that you're gonna hang onto? I guess it does relate a little bit to what we were just saying of, of, of
what is holding you back from being who you're really supposed to be. Now, I also look at that conversation with Lita and Jaar, and this is maybe a little bit of a different thing. Uh, Lita s Lita makes a really strong assumption of Ja car's motives here, right? Uh, and Ja Cargo again, she's like, she just, she even kind of turned on the wiles for a minute just to sort of prove her point even more.
Like it's, I mean, come on, you really just want my d n a, don't you And Ja car's like you, you think that's why I'm doing this? Well, my decision was more correct than I thought. And Jaar does this really cool thing where instead of recoiling from her, instead of being offended by her, he pushes in towards her.
He moves towards her. Now, that's metaphorical, that's not literal. Um, he moves toward, he moves in, he's like, oh no, this is why we're gonna go spend some time together. Let's go spend some time together so you can actually get to know me, and we can do, we can, we can go down this journey together. Because frankly, if, if Lida is turning into this big, ticking, time bomb thing that is uncontrolled, she needs, she's gonna need some help figuring out how to control all of this.
And honestly, I don't know that there's a better person than Jaar right now to help her go through that, you know? But it's the wall that she was gonna take with her of everyone's out to get me. Everybody just wants to use me. We discussed last week, maybe that is a, maybe that is a rightly earned wall or a rightly built wall because of her experiences coming out of Mars and the shadow war and the Earth war that everyone has used me.
Nobody's ever said thank you or anything like that, so I've gotta put up this wall, you know what I mean? Um, Garibaldi has this wall of his identity. He either has to let it go or he can, and, and when Garibaldi let that go, and he said, I'm gonna move forward with this, you and I said it earlier, that's, that's his spot is in that right there.
Not in the other thing, you know, um,
we, the jury is still out on what happens with Franklin, or not Franklin, I'm sorry, uh, Sheridan and Delin. I'm assuming we'll probably see that sometime here over the next couple of weeks. You know of what are they, what are you taking with you when you go, because everybody's gonna leave at some point.
Let's apply that to us. No matter where you are in life, there will come a day when you will leave, whether you're going to the great beyond to the grave, or whether you're moving to a different city, or you know, Jeff, there will come a day when you leave your job and Jeff goes, hallelujah.
Jeff: Right. Fingers crossed.
Brent: There will come that day.
Whether you choose to go or it gets chosen for you,
Jeff: Yep.
Brent: you will go,
Jeff: And it's a 50 50 shot on which one of those two things are gonna happen at this point, so,
Brent: Um, but again, what are, what are you taking with you when you go? What are the good, what's the bad? What are the walls that you're keeping with you? I think that was an interesting thing, and to kind of watch where Lita went, where Ja car went. Jaar was letting everything go as he, uh, the waltz he was taking with him.
He's letting everything go right. Um, again, there's Aldi Lease, lease seems to just be kind of, she's like, I just want my guy.
Jeff: mm-hmm.
Brent: This is fine. You know, finally I'm here. We're not gonna screw this one up again. Right? So anyway, that's where I, that's where I land with this, is what are you taking with you when you go, because you're, you're going to, you're gonna take stuff.
What are the things you need to let go of as you move forward in life? Things that are gonna hinder you if you continue to take them with you. That being said, I gotta boil this down to the message and how Babylon five, it was delivered, how strong this is not necessarily a, how much did I just like the episode.
How strong is this message as it goes through?
I don't know that the message is super strong 'cause you kind of gotta dig it out and you really gotta look at it. Did all the other pieces point back to that idea intentionally? N I don't necessarily think so, but I still think that you can draw that, that piece of it. And I still think that that is a huge it, it was such a smack in the face when Jaar said that, that everybody can go.
I understand what that means. I feel that. So with that, I'm gonna give this one, three and a half white stars. I think it was, it was a good message. It was in there. Was it super strong all the way through? Maybe not, but I do. I do think it was certainly there for, for quite a bit that we can definitely make those parallels and draws.
Jeff: I like that I'm not, I, I, I have some deeper dive. I'm not gonna stump for more. I think three and a half is wildly appropriate, but that, that, um, that line hit me in a really specific. Way, and a lot of it being my own journey, but also just what, what we as a society have learned. You know, I think one of the cool things that I talked about a couple of weeks ago, or maybe just a week ago, um, is how we look at things through a different lens Now, you know, this show was like, at the time of this recording, um, this was like 27 years ago or something.
Like, I, I can't do again, me and math, right? Not great. Uh, but 25 to 30 years ago, we should be looking at things through a different lens, right? Like we learn and we grow as a society. And what hit me is how there are the things you talked about, the things we choose to carry with us, uh, positive and negative, right?
We make choices as to what we bring, but there are also things we bring to us that we don't necessarily choose to bring with us. The traumas that we've experienced in our life. Little t traumas and big T traumas that have. You know, written themselves in some cases, like we know that long-term exposure to trauma or adverse childhood experiences can physically scar your brain.
They can actually reroute neural passageways in your brain to have you behave in a different way. And so what I saw this as is taking this nugget from 1998 that says, think about what you choose to bring with you and to bring it to a whole other level of, think about the things you're not choosing to bring with you that you do anyway.
And go get a professional to help you uncover these traumas, and you're never gonna solve them, right? We don't solve, Trauma, but express it. Express that emotion, that energy let go. What you're able to let go, acknowledge what you're able to acknowledge and build coping strategies around the impacts from these things.
Because what these traumas do is they make you show up. Lita, in a way, is expressing the trauma of how she feels. She was treated her whole life from go with the sco, all the way up through the shadow stuff. And so in a way, her responses are inevitable. There's not, it's not, it's almost not possible for her to choose to respond in a different way.
She's been programmed, literally programmed to respond in this way. So take time, reflect, talk to a professional if you're so moved, and start unpacking these traumas, not for the sake of blaming people or feeling bad about stuff, but for the sake of like releasing the energy tied to those traumas and, and then being able to heal from them.
So, to wrap it all up and talk about choice again, you might not have a choice about how you respond because of your trauma, but you do have a choice as to whether you're gonna go dive in and look at those and try, try to, to work with them.
Brent: Well, Jeff, I, I mean, and, and tell me if this rings true to you. You may not have a choice in carrying your trauma until you become aware of your trauma.
Jeff: you go.
Brent: Once you're aware of it, then you either can keep carrying it or you can do the work to lay it down and move past it. Like, and that's, that's how you get past, I don't wanna say get past trauma.
God, that sounds so whatever, but you know what I mean? Like, that's how you heal from trauma is the first step, is you gotta be aware of it. And once you're aware of it, now you can deal with it If you remain in the dark about it, if, if there is something you've, you've gotta know what's happening in your, in your life and to be able to move forward with that.
I, I love that. Um, I, I would say this, I wanna make sure I really hit this point because I think this is a, this is a core point for me, uh, especially from that lead to akar thing. Don't make assumptions of other people's motives. I think in general, in general, people really tell you the truth about why they're doing what they're doing. There are some people out there who are just out to get you. Some people out there who are gonna lie to you, fine. But most people. I'll tell you, this is why I just did what I did. You can believe 'em or not, that's up to you. But my, my grandmother, I love my grandmother. God rest her soul, love her. She was the world's worst at that person.
Just did that because of X, Y, Z. And I'm sitting here on the other side going, actually, I know exactly why that person did that. And that has literally nothing to do with it at all. You're making an assumption as to that person's motive. And that's not it. They actually told you why they were doing it, and that's actually the truth.
Uh, you just didn't wanna believe it. And yeah, don't, don't make assumptions at people's motives. Uh, that's a, that was a, a key piece. But yeah, all of that. So three and a half white stars is where we're gonna leave this one, Jeff. Now that's where we're leaving the white star conversation. That's talking about the, the, the messages of it.
But Jeff, you get, I think perhaps even the bigger job of placing this episode objects in motion in our ranking, and it's getting deep. 20 outta 22. It's getting deep. You get to rank this one. This is, this is how much we enjoyed the episode. This is how impactful the episode was to us. That takes into account the, the white star messages, but this is really looking at the, the, the episode as a whole.
You get to do that this week. Our current top five as we head into this episode is number one is the very long night of Lando mal. Number two is the fall of Sari Prime. Number three is all my dreams. Torn us under four is movements of fire and shadow. Wow. Jeff. Three of those top four have been episodes here in the last probably five episodes.
Jeff: Yep.
Brent: Uh, and then number five is no Compromises, Jeff, where Wow. And the other two are the first two episodes of this season. It just talks a lot about that. Episode three to episode 16.
Jeff: Right.
Brent: Uh, Jeff, where do you put objects in motion? In our ranking.
Jeff: Well, our top five is gonna remain intact this week, can tell you that much. And so kinda looking through everything here, there's a real dividing line that happens right between numbers 13 and 14, which is the Cora's mother, the Cora's father, and then a tragedy of telepaths like 14 and below, um, are, in our opinion, I'll, I'll speak for you on this, Brett.
I feel comfortable doing that, that that level and below is probably some of the worst television in the scope of Babylon five. Like,
Brent: Um, I would, I would repeat exactly what you said, but I would take out the word probably.
Jeff: okay. Yeah, there you go.
Brent: even considering season one and the great Egg and Soul hunter and infection and all of those, I would take those over this.
Jeff: I agree.
I, you know, especially
Brent: all in season two that we had to go through, um, uh, what would we do with Avalon?
You know, I
Jeff: Avalon is
Brent: in this.
Jeff: Agreed. Agreed. But, uh, so, so it's definitely above that. But then I start looking at these and a, a, a wall, a ceiling that I hit is Day of the Dead because I, I liked Day of the Dead more than this episode, so this is not going to be in the top 10. Looking at that. In between, we have darkness ascending, and meditations on the abyss that are kind of like, they're very together in what they are.
And I feel that Darkness Ascending did a better job with what meditations on the Abyss was trying to do than meditations on the Abyss did. With that, it actually
Brent: Remind me just real quick. Meditations on the abyss was Dilen sends Lanier off to training op and Darkness. Ascending is, Hey, he's still out there. And he just discovered the proof he needed of the sari doing their thing.
Jeff: Yep.
Brent: they kind, yeah, yeah,
Jeff: He's on a training app, by the way. Found a thing on his training op, and we're gonna make that two
Brent: They could have been the same episode.
Jeff: Yep. And so with that, I'm gonna push meditations on the abyss down. I'm gonna put objects in motion as our new number 12.
Brent: Jeff. Oh my, oh my. Okay. All right. Fair enough. Fair enough. Listen, this is definitive and it doesn't matter where Brent would've put this a little bit higher than you just placed it, and that's okay. Because this is your week and this is definitive. This is, this is ironclad.
Jeff: ironclad for three more weeks. Then we'll see what happens with it.
Brent: Oh, Jeff. Jeff,
Jeff: Brent, that's it for objects in motion. But before we get to our favorite game, I just wanna take one more moment to remind people that in three weeks we are gonna look at that, uh, ranking once again in our season five wrap up. And in our season five wrap up, we do a big giveaway.
Brent, on the video is holding it up right now. Incredible. P p g created by our buddy Wash Again, that thing just looks so good.
Brent: That's so good. It's
Jeff: You wanna, you want a chance to win one of these? We have more than one to give away. We're gonna give it to a current pat, a Patreon subscriber. So just head to patreon.com/babylon.
Five first, that's the number five, the word first, subscribe at any tier, and that qualifies you for the drawing
Brent: So Jeff, what, what, what about the people who've been like day one, Patreon supporters of ours? Do they qualify?
Jeff: hundred percent.
Brent: What about the person who just jumped in and is like, I want a shot at that P P G. Let me jump in right now. Do they also qualify?
Jeff: I would say they have, they not only qualify, they have exactly the same chance as the person who's been here since day one.
Brent: What about the person who creates several different accounts and subscribes with all of those different accounts?
Jeff: I'd say they have a much better chance of winning than someone with one account.
Brent: Just checking. Not that I'm saying for people to do that. I just, you wanna get a sense of that?
Jeff: yeah, hypothetically, if that were to happen, they've got a really good chance they winning one of those PPGs. So again, patreon.com/babylon. Five first for your chance to win. Brent. Next week we're watching objects at rest. For the first time. So we just watched Objects in motion. Next week is Objects at Rest.
We've never seen these episodes before. We don't look at thumbnails. We don't read descriptions. The exciting game we play, the prediction game is based on the title alone. We guess what's gonna happen. So Brent, what do you think Objects at Rest is gonna be about?
Brent: Okay, so we just watched objects at motion and now we got objects at rest. Jeff, I gotta tell you something. These last few weeks have not been kind on the predicting it based on the name only front.
Jeff: No,
Brent: Like, has not been kind to us at all. Uh, so I'm think I'm just gonna stick to, we're wrapping up storylines.
Uh, thi this is what you and I have decided is most likely the season finale. Really this is the working, functioning as the defacto season finale of, of season five. Right. Um, so we're wrapping up storylines. Um,
so Sheridan and Delin move off the station. That's, that's it right there. They finally have to move into their, into their deal. 'cause honestly they're like the only ones left. Right. Um, So I, I think it's, it's that they're, they're moving. Um, you know, I mean, well, there's also the, the finale, finale episode.
You know what I would say this would be in any other episode, what this feels like. So Sheridan and Delin are moving off the station. This is Will Smith at the end of Fresh Prince Bel Air, looking at the empty living room that they just all moved out of and before they turn off the light and head out the door,
Jeff: Yeah.
Brent: you know what I mean?
Like that, that's what this kind of Sheridan Linner leaving Babylon five, only Babylon five is not gonna get the light turned off on it as they, as they walk out the door to an empty Babylon five. Like, that's not how this is gonna work. So, um, you know, they've, they've gotta go to, you know, what we haven't dealt with yet.
Jeff: Hmm.
Brent: saying this is what they're gonna deal with, but this is the only other one that I, uh, so the nar draz and the Buri have not answered yet for breaking with the president to go attack Ari. Right. Uh, so, were they going against the principles of the alliance and stuff like that? Maybe not. So, maybe this is like a working out, a new constitution for the Alliance and, and finally getting like the alliance starts, we're finally here.
Like, we're, now we're, we're moving. Maybe it's that. I feel like this should end on a really feel good note. This episode, this shouldn't be some downer of an episode. Like it should end on a feel good note. But I, I think ultimately, uh, again, to go back to the, to the really broad, it's Shean and Delin moving off the station, wrapping up ties.
I think it's that. What do you think, Jeff?
Jeff: So I think it's, we, we saw the objects get put in motion this week. This is the people leaving. So the objects at rest are gonna be all the people, like they are all gonna land and be where they're supposed to be. So this Sheridan and Delen leave and they are, will come to, we'll see them settle in. To their new place on Minbar and be at rest.
Essentially, we're gonna see the Garibaldis, uh, doing the Edgars industry thing. Uh, we're gonna see 'em start rebuilding and getting involved into stuff. We'll see them intersect with Earth and how earth are being a bunch of jerk heads and making things difficult, but just kind of work. This is gonna be the sendoff for Sheridan and Delaine.
We're gonna see, you know, the Lockley, the Zach's, um, what happens, you know, with the medical, just like how does Babylon five continue and what's it gonna look like? I think it's the same thing. The end is gonna be that like, Everyone's happy, everyone's where they're supposed to be. And here's that one little hanging thing that will allow us to, you know, have an animated movie in the future and possibly a spinoff series to continue building in the universe.
But nothing that's an ominous. Next week on Babylon five, we'll find out like it's that, it's that whole big se This is the season finale that says the, the show is done, uh, to prop us up for whatever we get the week after.
Brent: Awesome. Hey, Jeff, real quick before we go on, I'm, I'm looking at this p p g that wash built. It literally has, uh, site guides. It's like sight lines down the, down, the, like for aiming and stuff. Also, also, uh, I just saw this while you were talking, uh, right here on the handle. Let me try to get that in, see if it can focus.
Babylon five logo.
Jeff: Oh my god,
Brent: on each side. Babylon five logo that says, I just noticed that, that's so
Jeff: that's next level.
Brent: Dude. Wash Man. So good. So, so good.
Jeff: We'll find out who wins that here in three weeks, and we're gonna find out what objects at rest is gonna be about next week right here. Thank you everybody so much for joining us. Don't forget to subscribe wherever you're listening or watching. Leave us a rating and review. Comment down below if you're watching on YouTube, and please share this show with someone who loves Babylon five or is about to fall in love with this incredible series.
So until next
Brent: Hey Jeff,
Jeff: Yeah, man, what's up?
Brent: so, you know, we're almost done with the se with the series. We only have like two episodes left.
Jeff: I know, man, it's wild. There's a lot more to come, a lot more to come after this, but this is a huge moment.
Brent: It it's cool though because, you know, here's the, here's the neat thing, right? Long after we're done in the, the podcasting hallows that are out there in Babylon five world, the the Babylon five fan community. Our voices will linger in these walls for as long as this fan community remains in place.
Jeff: I love that. Let's get the hell outta here, man.
