Speaker 1:
0:00
Today we have a special guest that's joining us live. It's his name is. His name is Rob Blackledge. Did I say that right? Meta Olivia, you did. I'm impressed. Did I say your name right? I don't think I did.
Speaker 2:
0:12
Yeah, you did, Brian. 2023 is your year, that is my year baby.
Speaker 1:
0:17
Yeah, well, ok, I better not celebrate yet because they could change pretty quickly. But man, what? What an amazing, amazing interview that we did with Rob Blackledge. If you don't know who Rob Blackledge is, he used to be a former country singer with a group called Black Jack Billy. If you're like, who's Black Jack Billy, well, you're going to learn during this episode. But if you, if you're in the country music, you, you, you might actually already recognize that name. But they were known for a song that took off called Booze Cruise, which is a pretty interesting and funny, pretty funny music video. You have to go check it out.
Speaker 1:
0:52
He came and shared his story the good, the bad and the transformation, and I and I love to hear his story Now. So just buckle up, because this is going to be you're going to be talking about some crazy stuff, the life that he got into, but how he went from a country singer and is now today a Christian counselor. Rob, won't you tell us a little bit about your story? Let's, let's just dive right in. Let's tell us a little bit about your story as a country singer. What was it like and was it what you thought it would be?
Speaker 3:
1:22
What was it like, and is it what I thought it would be? Well, I would say, by the time I got into country music, I had been in Nashville for almost 10 years, and so I really just kind of stumbled into country music. I'm originally from Mississippi and moved to Nashville in 2002 and because I wanted to do music of some sort. But I had always been an athlete and so I grew up in somewhat of a small town, so I didn't, I didn't know what Nashville was. The long and short of it is like I had an idea of kind of the music industry. I had made some solo records, I had toured around as a singer, songwriter, and then I actually I ended up getting into country music because I happened to write a song for a band called Love and Theft and it was their first single and it went to number nine, I think, on the on the country Billboard charts. So I had this kind of big fat hit song and I didn't mean to, I wasn't trying to do it, but it opened all these doors and I met some people and and, low and behold, a buddy of mine said hey, let's start a band. The music industry in some ways is very much like any other industry that you're in, but in other ways it is not, and so I would say that it was what I expected it to be. I think what was unexpected about it for me was more just kind of the journey that we took as a band and really this, the odd type of success that we ended up having and no one's heard of us.
Speaker 3:
3:06
We were not a list or even be list level act, but we did have a couple of songs that did really well on satellite radio and and we were. We had a pretty big following in Canada and Australia and so we made good money and especially in Canada we were. We were at a level where we got to play with a lot of big A list acts, and so I got to the way that I tell people when I'm when I'm just kind of giving the overview of all of it is that I got to do all of the stuff that you would want to do, like the tour buses and the private jets and the big stages and 20,000 people and you know, like getting recognized on the street, like I got to experience in in just a small, very short amount of time what it felt like to get all the things that I ever wanted, you know. So for the first two years that's what we did. We played bar gigs and we we drove around the country in a van and we would start playing at 10 o'clock at night and play till two in the morning and just get hammered and have a great time. And I was married, but no kids and very little responsibilities, and so it just sounded like fun.
Speaker 3:
4:13
The success really, we stumbled upon because of this song, booze Cruise, and we ended up getting a booking agent, which is really, really important If you want to make any money, you've got to have somebody that book shows for you and he booked us a residency in Panama City Beach, florida, during spring break. So the stories can start here when this goes under the bad. They paid for us to live in Panama City Beach during the month of March and we would play four nights a week at this club called Spinnaker Beach Club and we would do a two hour set and then you know some big. You know Luke Brian would play later that night, or big and rich, or McGonagall Jentry, whoever was playing, and and so what happened is is we did that for a month, so for four weeks, kids came from all over the country to Panama City and we would party with them hard and then we would just have a killer time and then they would all go back to their college towns and be like, oh my gosh, I got to tell you what happened while we were down there and and it was during that it was it was a big day and it was during that. It was.
Speaker 3:
5:30
March of 2013 is when we released this song called Booze Crews and it kind of became this underground anthem, if you will, and we ended up kind of riding that way for the next two years and and off we went. So the success is what's always kind of like well, where did this? Like, where did this come from? Like what happened? We did that summer. We signed a record deal in October and immediately got on a tour bus and and took off and and drove all around America and visited radio stations and did what you do to try to promote yourself and then started playing bigger stages and flying out here and getting on a bus and flying to Australia and touring around and flying to Canada and driving this way and that way, and it was just. It was just. It was absolutely nuts and I would say it really was. It really was a ton of fun. It's just a ton of fun. I mean you were in so many ways I was doing exactly what I had always wanted to do.
Speaker 1:
6:37
So, if these are all great, what happened? What happened? The change, yeah.
Speaker 3:
6:43
So a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff happened. The first thing I would have to point out is for me, I'd never and this is this is important to a certain degree but like I never wanted to like be a country music singer like I'm I'm from Mississippi and you know I grew up killing stuff for fun and Playing in the mud and doing all the things that you do in Mississippi. We would eat the food, by the way. We didn't just shoot things and leave it. No, I said, do it for fun, and that's not entirely true, and it was a part of that culture, but I never wanted to be a A country music singer. I loved country music and so when I ended up in this band, I really was.
Speaker 3:
7:27
I had been a solo artist doing kind of pop and R&B stuff for about seven years and I had really kind of gotten burned out on it and I was trying to figure. I had written some country songs for other people and then the opportunity to start a band and and really kind of achieve something became Available to me, in which so I really kind of stumbled into this opportunity, and what happens is is and the first thing that I take away from this is I Didn't have a direction, so, like I was just kind of floating, and that's fine. Like floating is great. Like a lot of people, you know, I'm 24, 25 years old. I'm this kind of creative like I don't really want it. I wouldn't even know what a what I would do for money or for work if I wasn't doing music, and so, yeah, sure, that sounds like fun, let's start a band. And so, when you don't have a direction we don't when you don't know, like, hey, this is what I want to do and this is how I want to do it and this is why I want to do it, then you really do just kind of go with what comes, and this is what came my way.
Speaker 3:
8:31
And so, as I got further and further into it, what started off is just like, oh, this will be fun. Begin that Begin to be not as much fun. And when and I say that from a perspective of I was definitely drinking a lot, but I love to drink I was definitely smoking a lot of weed, but I love to smoke weed. What ends up happening, though, is, you know, you lose your record deal, okay. And so you go from a nice big tour bus to like, okay, we're gonna convert an RV.
Speaker 3:
9:06
And when that happened, our bass player quit, so somebody had to play bass and instead of hiring a bass player, I was like, well, I'll just play bass and, honestly, we'll save money that way because there'll be only four of us in the band instead of five. So now I've gone from, like From being a kind of upfront with a guitar and singing like playing bass. Well, just fine with me. Because at that point, a year and a half in, it was like, as long as I get to smoke a little bit and drink a Little bit, I'm alright and it's really fun being the pothead in a band. But at the same time as I'm kind of forming this character, kind of this bass player dude that honestly looks a lot like I do right now, which I have issues with my hair that you're seeing, but that's okay, we won't talk about it. Yeah, I'll go get some meta help. I know, is there a meta barber that can kind of like?
Speaker 3:
9:51
shape it's not as bobbed as it looks, but there's nothing. So I ended up I ended up really kind of shrinking into this really small box is a good way of put it where, yes, I'm getting paid to play music. I don't really like the music. I don't really. You know, it's fun to be on tour buses and it's really fun to play big shows, but what was fun about it was the party. It wasn't really the music and it's like, well, at this point I'm just kind of professional partier and I'm looking up and I'm like man, is this really who I am Like? Is this one?
Speaker 3:
10:29
So I started asking the question of the first one that really stuck with me was when I'm 45 years old, am I gonna, is this what I'm gonna be doing? Like, is this what it looks like for me? And I have friends that are 45 years old and exactly what they're doing and they're perfectly content, or at least they seem to be. But for me there was just something that wasn't measuring up. It didn't add up. I wasn't. I Was getting to do all this cool stuff, but it didn't feel authentic. And that was the first kind of voice that was kind of rumbling inside of me is like what am I doing this for? So the further, the longer I held on to that question, the more I I realized like I'm either gonna have to face this or I'm gonna have to try to make it go away.
Speaker 3:
11:15
And that's when my drinking and my drug use just kept escalating. Now my wife is. She has a glass of wine every night and goes to bed. She's not a part of your by any stretch of the man. We met it in college, at Belmont, and I was like she hated guys like me and she was at the library studying and I was literally throwing parties to like pay the utility bills, you know, because we charge five bucks a cup and we have a bunch of people come and we pair utilities. So we're just the opposite ends of the spectrum, which is ends up being a huge gift. But I was having to be.
Speaker 3:
11:47
I say that this house was living alternate life. You know, I'd go on the road and I'd be, I'd be that guy and I'd come home and and and be a husband for five or six Days a month and then and then we'd leave, and so all of this was building For probably about a year and a half. I was raised in the church I was. You know. My dad looked at me one day and he's like, are y'all ever gonna Sing any songs that aren't about drinking? I was like, hmm, why no, that's what people want to hear. You know, we are the chief party throwers, so that's what we did, but little things like that just kind of stick with you.
Speaker 3:
12:23
And it all ultimately escalated to October. The last day of October and I'll give the abbreviated version of this story. This is this is at least a chapter or two of my book. Whenever that happens, we had played a country cruise, which is where they pay you an Exorbitant amount of money to go live on a cruise ship for six to seven days and play some shows with a bunch of like big-time fans, and, and the night before we landed back in Miami, ami was our drummer's birthday and the guys just got absolutely was absolutely just a nut nut job. It was crazy on the boat that night and my wife happened to be on the boat with us and her brother and His wife, and so it was the really the first time that my family Was really in the same space as my work life and I got to see firsthand like there's this way of doing it. There's like because, like I was getting really pissed off at my wife or not, that I didn't know, I don't know if pissed off his vulgar language, but that was just so, like I knew. So what is the first time I got to see like party world, work world, like crazy, you know kind of rock star world with like my family and they didn't go together and and and long story short is there was this just insanely crazy. You know, 24, 48 hour period after we got back, there was a fist fight on the, on the rental van on the way to the airport. There was Just, it was chaos. And I woke up on Monday morning and called everybody and said I'm done. And that was really the first step towards. I don't know what I'm gonna do next, but Blackjack Billy is not, is not, is no longer a healthy place for me.
Speaker 3:
14:25
And so to really talk about transformation in my story, it really started there because Up to that point I think I was 30 years old, I had put every waking ounce and energy into getting and doing what I wanted the way that I wanted to do it I. I moved to Nashville, I played shows, I didn't go on vacations. I didn't take spring break trips like I toured. I made records like I was gonna make it in the music industry. And then I did. And then two years later, I'm like this is awful, this is just my story. It's not this is a true for everybody, but I really for me it looked like it was in my faith began to, to, to, to take center stage here, because I see the story that was being written for me and I see the hand that was coming in and saying, hey, this is not, this is gonna kill you. This, this keep going this way, you're gonna die.
Speaker 3:
15:27
And so I left the band with no intention of Stopping any of my previous substance abuse habits. I just had to figure out how to hide it. So I had to get crafty. It really led to a lot of Just hiding. I was hiding because I no one could know how much I was drinking, no one can know how much I was smoking, because the world that I was in now that wouldn't be okay. I had, I had left the road where it was okay, and now I was in home life. I had a one-year-old kid, my wife was going to work every day and I was staying at home with him trying to figure out how I was gonna walk the line which is a real thing With my, with my need to drink and my need to be high and still take care of a one-year-old. I ended up really trying to walk that line for about six months and Ultimately it became very obvious to me that if I wasn't that, I was not, I was not okay.
Speaker 3:
16:22
Like I went, I tried to get a job at a bar here in town in 12 South and my fourth day I got fired for having a beer before work and that really, really, really broke me and I I really Started just hitting my face on the rocks on the way down to the bottom, if you will like. I had lost my career. I had lost my, my, where I thought I was going. My identity was in music. I wasn't doing that anymore and then I went to try to get a job and I couldn't do that. You know I just got in.
Speaker 3:
17:00
The manager really ripped me anew and be honest with you and you know I tell people what it was like and I mean that was rude but honestly was telling me what I needed to hear and I just wept the whole way home, like what is going on? I got home and I curled up in the back of my 82 Chevy pickup that I don't own anymore and and was just finished. Man, like I, I told my wife like I can't, I can't do this anymore. Like I, I'm, I'm trying to to do the right thing, I'm trying to move in the right direction, but if I'm not drinking I'm not okay and really just kind of came clean with with what I was Experiencing.
Speaker 3:
17:44
I came out of hiding and and it was in that moment that Like that's a great question, because for me, if it felt like relief I know because I work as a therapist now and I work with a lot of people who who see that is really scary. And until you're ready to come out of hiding it is scary, but once you're ready to come out of hiding, it's it's desperation. It's like I can't do this anymore. You know, and that's where I was, I was done, and that was the first time that I I mean, I grew up in the church. I grew up in it with a loving family. I've been given every opportunity To, to, to avoid this mess that I had made, but as somebody who needed to experience something, I had to push all the, all the red buttons. I pushed all the buttons and I found myself kind of laying at the bottom of this dark hole and I said, I Said you know what, lord, I've learned a lot about you and I've heard a lot about you and I've had lots of different Experiences with you along the way. But I think, for the first some of my life, if, if you are who you say you are, I'm gonna need you to be that now, because this sucks like I can't, I can't do this anymore and I had my kind of like come to Jesus moment and our pastor at the time had been, had been. I'd heard several times this passage and from Peter, where it says that we've been given everything we need for life and godliness. And I knew, I knew I did not have that. I did not have everything I needed for life and godliness. And I said, look, if that's you, if that's, if your role is to give me that, then I quit and I'm gonna let you go ahead and do that and I'm done. And I went to bed that night and my wife says I cried myself to sleep. I don't remember, but that sounds dramatic and sure it makes for a better story. I mean to unpack that moment a little bit more.
Speaker 3:
19:46
Like the first thing that happened is I got. So I, when I got home, I crawled, like I said, crawled up in the back of my pickup truck. For some reason I felt safe there and and my wife ended up getting home. Emily got home and she's like weren't you at work, you know? And I was like, well, I got fired and I'd been crying and I was just this broken man. She's like what happened? I was like I just I don't know, I had a beer. I don't know what's happening about this. Like I can't do this anymore, like I just that was enough and it's.
Speaker 3:
20:18
It might sound silly, it wasn't just as that I lost my job. I hope you can see like it was this culmination of years, that kind of I mean, I've lost jobs before, but it was just this moment of I can't do anything, I can't do that, like there's no longer. I keep trying to do this and I can't do it. Why can't I do this? Like, and I went into my shed and I picked up a one of my golf clubs and I just beat the absolute daylights out of a cardboard box and just like I was so mad, like I'm just, I want to do this my way, the way I thought it was supposed to be done, and it's not working. So that's what led to you know what fine. That's what the attitude was. It was fine, we'll just, we'll just be done with it. And God, you do whatever you're going to do and I'm going to, I'm going to, just I quit is what it was.
Speaker 1:
21:35
What are you doing now and how's it different from where?
Speaker 2:
21:40
you were in the past.
Speaker 3:
21:41
So it's what's what is important about the connection to now is waking up the next morning and experiencing what really what? Like I woke up and I walked into the kitchen and I said I looked at him and I was like him. I think I mean I probably did do something like this with my hands Like I think, like this is weird, like I think I have peace. You know, she's at the sink.
Speaker 3:
22:04
Oh, that's great Rob, you know, just traumatized from all the stuff that put her through. But, like, I think I have peace and so I. That was the real step towards like okay, this can be different, like life can look different. And so the first thing that I did is I'd I began talking with people that I respected and I gained a lot of wisdom. I saw it, council, and that's what led me to really begin to realize, like, as much as I love music, what I really love more is this idea of freedom and this idea of coming out of hiding and the fact that we really only experienced this through connection and through relationships. And so I ended up going back to school and getting a degree in counseling and so, as of today, I still write songs. I write songs for this organization called Song Finch that does personalized songs for people and which is, I think, where the bio came from that I saw. And then I work as a therapist because I've learned therapies that can be a great tool for transformation. I'm still moving through that, to be quite honest.
Speaker 3:
23:15
My wife runs an organization called African Leadership that does pastor training in economic and social development in Africa and has been for the last 20 years and I've really grown more and more enamored with her work and trying to determine or really think about how to connect America and the Western world with what's happening in Africa and the way that they do life, because I think there's so much we can learn from each other.
Speaker 3:
23:41
And so I've been talking a lot with Emily about taking my skill set as a therapist and helping people walk through a process of experiencing a different way of doing life, which is ultimately the transformative part, right. So evangelizing that, saying hey, it doesn't have to be this way. And using our relationships that Emily and I have in Africa and the people that we know there to help usher in some of that change. Have them tell their story this is what we're doing here and this is what the Lord has shown us and this is how we do it. And to invite us into that and say, man, look at this man, this is crazy what's happening over here and the things that they're doing and how they're doing it, like it's mind blowing.
Speaker 1:
24:30
Have you ever heard of this author called Andi Kobler? Have you ever heard of Andi Kobler? No, I haven't. So she has this book called Try Softr. I've barely read any of this book, so my wife has read a lot of it.
Speaker 1:
24:41
One of the things that we do here at the studio is this studio is all about sharing stories, because we believe there's power in our stories. You hear where you've come from and where you are now. There's power in your story. That's in Revelations 1211. The enemies defeated by the blood of lamb, by the power of your testimony, your story.
Speaker 1:
24:58
Now, for myself, I don't know if any of you here can relate to this, but I've always kind of taken the mindset of all right, that part of my story sucks, so I need to get over that. I need to get past that. Like I don't want to talk about that part. Hey, okay, look, I see confetti, yeah, and I'm like that's kind of like I need to move on, get over it. And I just learned this from my wife talking to her, that I've started learning that we all have an inner voice.
Speaker 1:
25:30
That may or may not be helpful, depending on your past, depending on the past of your story. And she asked me this. She said when you mess up, is your voice critical to yourself? Or is your voice like, hey, you're gonna do it's not a big deal, like I was like, oh, my voice is very critical, but I never really thought about that. She's like, well, depending on your story, your story's effect. This is what Andi was saying in her book. She said your story's effect, how you see your world, that you're in and how you fit into it and it creates a template to how you see God, ourselves and others. And I'm like, hey, this is blowing my mind and I would love to hear your thoughts on that.
Speaker 3:
26:14
Yeah, well, that's what I've. That is exactly what I've immersed myself in over the last six years Is that kind of work and doing that work with other people. You're exactly right, we so we function as and I'm gonna sound like super sound like a therapist right now, but we, we function From an emotional space, right. So we have our heart in our head and, as kids, we all know little kids like I have three-year-old twins like they're just all heart, like they're just like 100%, like they know what they want. They yell and scream, they fight, that it's all heart. Like they have no zero cognitive really, like they know how to like poop and pee and like throw things and beyond that. It's just, it's all, just crazy.
Speaker 3:
27:01
And so something happens also have an eight-year-old son and something happens, usually between like six and ten, right, so the brain Forms some more and we begin to learn, for it will begin to learn, kind of like how the society works and how relationships work, and really what enters is shame, right, and so inevitably what happens and I'll keep this a little bit short, but like the snake enters the garden, right, and so we end up we experience pain and it's that pain that tells us to shut our heart down right and Through your story. Understanding what has hurt you like understanding the pain in your story and understanding the ways in which you have People have harmed you and you've harmed yourself, is what allows you to understand why you do what you do, why you decided to come in here and make this whole world and do this thing, like there's something in you that said this was a good idea. Right, I haven't done this, never crossed my mind. I have a totally different story that led me in totally different places, but the work that I do now is is all about that. It's about recognizing who you are and why you're that way. You're not broken. There's nothing wrong with you. We all have really, really good reasons for acting the way that we do.
Speaker 3:
28:19
Right, something happens, something taught us that in order to survive in this world, I must be this way, right, and Inevitably with all of us, I don't care who you are Inevitably the way that we adapt to be, the way we learn to be when we're 12, 13, 14, 15, ends up not working. It doesn't work right, and so the adaptive behavior becomes maladaptive, right, and that's how we end up with addiction. That's how we end up with, you know, just up all of the, all of the injustice and the perversions and the thing. It's us trying to figure out how to do this and by understanding your story, going backwards, it can be really helpful to learn, well, how do you got here? And by doing that then you can begin to see, like, what am I doing here? And begin to answer the question that I brought up a few minutes ago around, like where do I want to be? Who do I want to go now?
Speaker 3:
29:14
I happen to believe that the Bible offers a lot of really great insight into who I am, and that's part of my story and and a part that I love to share, but Absolutely it is man. I could go on for hours about this, because I've come to find that it's the most important thing in our life, like your relationship with yourself, with others and with God. Learning to do those well is what's going to determine your level of health, and it's either going to leave you to life or it's going to lead you to death. Life will be in relationship, and healthy relationship, with boundaries and vulnerability and intimacy, and fear and and isolation will lead you to death. It will ultimately lead you to death, because it's not what we were created for.
Speaker 1:
30:03
Actually that's. It's interesting, like last year People that has been coming to the studio. My focus last year was Reflection time, really taking time for reflection. Now Meta Olivia knows because she works with me, we always have the discussions and I tell her, like Fridays are my reflection day, so I go out. I went out today, spent about two hours out hiking and just spending time of God, and then just Sitting in silence and just listening and just taking in the things around me. And this year I told her that this year, like I've been kind of researching, like I want to learn how to, to be a better listener, I want to learn how to ask better questions, to be really be present at the moment, and with that I've been doing a lot of studying and I realized that this new year, 2023, is actually the first person I had to start asking questions to is myself.
Speaker 1:
30:53
Why do I? Why am I passionate about this? Why do I Respond this way? Why does this upset me? I'm like I'm learning that I need to be more self-aware about myself. Like my story, not just the good parts, but even the bad parts and and you know, embracing the full story, like what you're, like what you've been doing here tonight. You're embracing your full story. We're not really getting a glimpse at it. I would love to have you back again that, have you cover more of your story too, and sure, because there's so much of it. But one of the things that what I love, what you're saying right now is you said that you're still you start learning through this, and this is something I wrote down today is that I love this, this realization that, okay, we might each one of us here are living out a story in our life. Mm-hmm, some of those stories, some of those chapters in that story, suck.
Speaker 3:
31:45
We don't anybody read it?
Speaker 1:
31:46
I, we just don't, we don't want to talk about it, but there's still something there in that part of the story that is critical and is part of your story. There's got to be a why there. Like you said, research, learn more about that. But what I thought was very interesting I wrote this down was the end hasn't been written yet, though. If you're still here, your story is still being written.
Speaker 1:
32:11
So I love how you said your direction. What is it that you want to do? What are you chasing? Where are you going after? What is it? Where are you going towards? And that gave me some encouragement today. Like, okay, I'm living out the story, but I need to become more software and keep asking myself these questions. Start the questions with myself, like why am I passionate about this? Like you said, why did you even do the studio? It's because I feel, like all of us, like we're all a lot more alike than we really realize, and I've learned that I go through life feeling like I'm the only one dealing with this, and then I find out there's 10 others that are dealing with it, but they never found out until I opened up and said I'm dealing with this.
Speaker 3:
32:52
Yeah, yeah, it's the connection. It's what we were created for, 100%, and it's. If I look back on my story, I can see well, that's why, that's what I loved about music, it's what I loved about the show. It's what I loved about the experience. It's what's fun about this. Why we're all here is like even though it's a different format that I'm used to Like you're connecting with people. It feels like an authentic connection and that's what we were made for. And something else I would encourage you with is to be consider asking what for instead of why. Why can be good, but it can also, if you're not careful, it can be. What's the word I'm looking for? Like accusatory, why?
Speaker 1:
33:41
am I doing?
Speaker 3:
33:42
this and so what for? Is a really great way of saying, like, what's my motivation, like, what am I wanting out of this? And when I sit in my therapist's chair, it's oftentimes where I start with people, because they're dealing with something that's not working and they're not aware of even really what they're doing it for. So they're blind to this, to what it's doing for them. And if you can understand what it's doing for you, if you can understand why, like, what the action is is what you're trying to get from it, then you can begin to see what the need is Right. And so understanding the need, ultimately, is what is going to help you recognize what it is that you're trying to do. So we're all here because we all have an inherent loneliness, right that just exists, and so I'm going to come in. That loneliness can drive me to intimacy or it can drive me to apathy, and so the apathy is going to be the isolation right, like a whatever you know.
Speaker 2:
34:43
You know, just forget it, nobody cares about it.
Speaker 3:
34:46
Or it's going to drive me, it's going to say, no, I'm lonely and I want to be with you. I want people to see me, into me, see intimacy, right. So like, I want to move towards that. And that happens over and over and over again. So the more you can pay attention to what you're doing and what's it for, like what, what am I moving? Everything that we do in life has a reason.
Speaker 3:
35:07
Everything has a motivation and a purpose and a direction, and it's I'll say it again, it's either pushing us towards life, right, or it's pushing us towards death, even the struggle. And that's why and I'll say this one, that that's why looking back at the hard parts is so important, because if you look back at the part of your story that you don't like and you're unable to give meaning to that part of the story, then it, then it is simply becomes a dead weight, right, and you can't process through it and you will always be stuck there, right. And so when you can look at the pain in your life and and and sit in it and feel it and experience it and make meaning out of it, that's when you find purpose in that pain and you can begin to use it for good and share it with other people.
Speaker 3:
35:52
Pain without me, pain without meaning, is trauma. That's what trauma is. It's pain without meaning, it's suffering with it's pointless. Suffering is what trauma is, and so we've all experienced it. It's when you're able to say like, oh, I see what that was for, I see it now. You know, and it happens in every movie we watch, right, like every great story we watch, a character suffer, and what happens in the end is they either they either die of misery, right. Or if it's a, if it's a story, we, like they realize like, oh my gosh, I see why it's. God bless the broken road that men led me straight to you thing.
Speaker 1:
36:29
Right, so you make meaning out of this story. Yeah, there you go, so that's awesome.
Speaker 2:
36:34
That's awesome. That's awesome. Sorry, I was going to say like I'm a huge counseling advocate. I just think it's amazing. But you know, there is a huge stigma when it comes to counseling, especially in the Christian world. So what would you say to someone who's kind of like I don't know about counseling, but like I literally think everyone should go to council?
Speaker 3:
37:03
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:
37:05
Yeah, just because it's an outside perspective, they help. You know you help work through things. But what would you say to kind of like the stigma of going to counseling?
Speaker 3:
37:16
Well, if somebody's thinking like, oh man, you know counseling, I don't know, then I would tell them not to go because it will be a waste of time and money. But for somebody who's curious about it, who believes there's some stigma about it, that's okay too. I really encourage people to openly distrust the process and to say out loud, like I don't get this, like what do we do here? Because, ultimately, what the hope is that we're able to be free people, right? So I've come to give you life, and life to the fullest. Like I want to be filled, I want to be, I want to have a free, meaningful, rich life, and part of that, part of that freedom is me being able to be honest. And so I really look at therapy as no more than just a place where I can go and practice in a confidential, safe space, what it's like to really be me, right? So like I'm going to take off all the stuff that I'm even aware of and I'm just going to put it out there, right, and this guy or girl is going to sit across from me and I'm going to hope that if they're a good therapist, they're going to give me some sort of feedback about what that's like Right, and then maybe they'll even see and experience something that I don't see Right.
Speaker 3:
38:38
And I think and especially if you're dealing with something from your past, something that is more trauma-based, that you need to really work through, like there's some really, really great practitioners out there and there's really great tools that you can that you're not aware of. Like if you haven't gone and read about it or looked about it or sought it out, you're not aware of the resources that are there to help. And so I've learned that nine times out of 10, I'm the last person somebody's called Right. So they've tried family, they've tried drugs, they've tried drinking, they've tried not doing anything, they've tried sex, they've tried like, they've tried all of this stuff. They've tried holding onto the steering wheel, say a white knuckling, and then none of it works.
Speaker 3:
39:29
And because of how unbelievably scary vulnerability is, the last thing that they do is they call a human being and they say will you help me? Right? That's how scary it is, and you have to recognize that when it's something is that scary it? That means it's powerful, that means it's there's something, there's a reason that's scary. It's because if you sit across the table for me and you tell me the truth Something's gonna happen. I don't know what it's gonna happen, but something's gonna happen, right, and yeah it's. That can be really scary, and so that's man I. There's lots of things about therapy that I have questions about, and and the format and and and things, and the formulas and the theories, and. But at the end of the day, therapy is a relationship and so it is. It's a space for you to come and to try to see what it's like to be you, and my hope and prayers that you can find a good therapist, because there's there's not good therapist.
Speaker 2:
40:30
Yeah.
Speaker 3:
40:32
So, yeah, I think that would be my, my, what I would say to anybody that was skeptical.
Speaker 1:
40:38
How can people connect with you outside in the real life? Is there, you have a? Yeah.
Speaker 3:
40:42
I would love, absolutely so, rob, blacklage, counseling, comm. Or you can just email me, rob, black ledge, and it's Rob, and then black like the color, the ledge, like a ledge. You can also, I think if you Google me now I'm far enough removed from music that I think counseling comes up first and then like the. The next one down, I think is probably a picture of me, you know, on drugs, like playing music, which is fine. But yeah, just, you can look me up. I have a website and Instagram and all that sort of thing. But yeah, I'm had love to connect and if y'all have any questions about therapy or about Just mental health in general, I would be more than happy to do my best to to be a resource for you and and help point you in the and some kind of direction.
Speaker 3:
41:31
But don't be scared to ask for help. Ultimately, that's what it boils down to.
Speaker 1:
41:35
I'm gonna ask you if there's one thing that you would hope people would take away from tonight, what would it be?
Speaker 3:
41:39
to come out of hiding without it for 100%. Take it, you're already, it already sucks probably. Like it's already challenging and so that's not an excuse Like, oh, it's gonna be hard or it's scary or what will people think of me? Like it, just find that safe space, take a chance and trust somebody and say, man, this is hurting, this is hard, we, we cannot tell you about this, you know, talk about it and it's I can't explain it. It's magical, you know I.
