Badr Milligan:
0:00
Hey everybody. Welcome back to the JPU show, the podcast show chock full of helpful and practical advice for podcasters of all skill levels. It's hosted by the Jax podcasters united group to the home for podcasters and audio creators in Northeast Florida. I'm your host. I'm bought Milligan, and I'm joined by my co host, the lovely big brain Blythe Milligan, hey, Blythe, how you doing today? Hey, hello,
Unknown:
0:22
hello, hello, hello,
Badr Milligan:
0:24
there you go. Already forgot. All right, today we are talking about podcast artwork. So I want to talk about some of our favorite podcast artwork. I want to talk about what makes for good podcast artwork and the importance of having, you know, putting some thought into the artwork that of your podcast. We just finished an episode about podcast episode titles and descriptions, and hopefully that came out before this episode, if not, well, guess what? We got that in the pipeline, but we just finished talking about how podcast episode titles and descriptions are just as important, right? It's, it's among the the many things that a an existing listener as well as new listeners are able to look at and quickly judge. But I would also say your podcast hour is also among the very first things that most listeners will look at. So you should put time and effort into how you create it. And I think this advice is maybe more so geared towards newbie podcasters that they're just starting their podcasts that you know are looking to launch one soon. I think this is definitely an important checklist on that or important item on that checklist. And I'd also say maybe for the rare podcaster that's looking to rebrand or come up with some new artwork, maybe this is something you know that'd be helpful for them too. So I guess, Blythe, let me take a step back. Your Podcast artwork. You have. You've actually gone on Fiverr. You've gotten professionals to work on your artwork, right? Have you ever created your own podcast artwork?
Blythe Brumleve:
1:52
Yeah, the first one I ever used, it was trash. So that's when I started hiring people to do it for me. So the last, I would say probably two or three different podcasts, because we were so three different shows. I've had designers professionally design it for me. So it was Digital Dispatch at first, and then that changed into everything as logistics. I use the same designer for both of those to make that upgrade, use the same designer for a third party project that you and I had worked on together, the maritime means podcast, so that cover art, we had the same designer work on that as well. I think it's incredibly important from the jump to obviously have some good artwork. But I think we're gonna we may disagree a little bit on some of what it should look like. I think,
Badr Milligan:
2:47
I guess, what would you say makes for good artwork like when you're scrolling Apple podcast, Spotify, etc. What are some can you identify some common elements that maybe make you stop and pause? And I guess if you got any examples of your favorite artwork. Feel free to share this.
Blythe Brumleve:
3:02
So the first thing I want people to kind of recognize is that familiarity you need to have. In my opinion, I don't think you should be creating different podcast artwork for every episode. Not at all. I think you should actually keep it the same. I can go into more D or I can, you know, break it down a little bit later on. But from what catches my attention, is very simple. Three words or less. Two is best as simple of a graphic as possible, because for folks who are just listening, I'm sorry, but I'm going to scroll through my overcast feed. And if I can hold this up to the camera, this is the real estate you're dealing with, very small, right? And what do you notice about a lot of these shows? Two or three words, very simple. There's a shout out to Buzzsprout right there. So they all of these shows, very simple. Another commonality between a lot of these shows is they have a photo of someone. So my thesis is that for a lot of creatives, we tend to get tired of our own content way faster than our audience does, and the reason for that is that your audience is inundated with things that are trying to get their attention. So you're not just competing with other podcasters. You're competing with the Kim Kardashians of the world for that audience attention. And so when all of these things are being thrown at you all of the time, all day, every day, no matter what social network you're on, what no matter if you're in YouTube versus podcast, there is an art to creating a thumbnail or a way to grab someone's attention. And podcasting, I would argue that you need to keep the artwork. Unlike YouTube, you need to keep the artwork the same, because, as I just showed on my phone, you. Dealing with such a small real estate, digital real estate on someone's phone, where six or seven different pieces of artwork are in your face at any given time. If you're using an app like overcast, if you're using an app like Apple, the pod, the podcast, artwork is a little bit more prominent, way more prominent, I would argue. But you're competing with all of that different attention. And I think for a lot of creatives that we get tired of our own artwork so much faster than the audience does, and that you have a potential to harm your show if you change it up too many times, because you have to get the audience used to whatever that artwork is, that the name of your show is so small in that feed that the familiarity that you have hopefully developed is in the artwork itself, because people look at the artwork, and then they look at the title, and if they don't recognize the artwork, then they look at the title for some kind of A hint on is this something that I want to, you know, entertain? Is this something that I potentially want to click play on? If not that they're going to keep on scrolling? And so, in my opinion, the podcast artwork, it should absolutely be as simple as possible. It should be easy to read, whether it's large or whether it's small. And you need to keep in mind that your audience is inundated with things that are trying to take their attention. And so especially starting out first couple of years podcasting, I would argue that you need to keep your artwork largely this
Badr Milligan:
6:37
for sure. I think starting out, you know, don't try to get too fancy with the episode artwork. The individual episode artwork is what we should say unless, I think, unless it directly correlates with that episode. Maybe you've got a guest on the show, or you're talking about specific subject, but I think starts, yeah, I think starting out you want to, you're trying to establish your brand. You're trying to get people familiar with your, with your artwork, right? Your, your, your show artwork. And I think the best, the best podcast, and the best, I'm sorry, the best podcast with the best artwork, you're able to look at their their artwork and tell you know what is about the tone of it, the topic this, you know you're able your podcast artwork should be able to communicate a lot of different things at once. What's it about? What's the topic? The personality, the style, maybe even the genre. I think, you know, if it's a personality driven show, you know, if it's if it's the topic is about you and your thoughts on things, then yeah, your picture should be the episode already. Maybe that should be the focus. If you have a hobby podcast, let's say, like, comic books, maybe some sort of imagery on that artwork that showcases exactly what it's about, comic books, or, you know, if it's murder mystery, something to that effect. Is it, you know, is it about a business, or some sort of field of business? You know, your artwork should reflect that, like very common, what I feel like very common things that to keep in mind is like, your artwork should be able to tell a whole story on its own. And to your point, you're only dealing with, like you said, a very small real estate. I believe it's 150 pixels by 150 so a perfect square is what you're dealing with. So you're going to want to avoid small, intricate details, small text, you know, if you want to keep it simple, I think also, like a striking color, some, you know, color palette that represents your show, but is also attention grabbing, I think is important thing to also incorporate as well. I was going through just looking at some, you know, various articles about what makes for good, you know, podcasts.org, and tips like that. And I came across this article by actually Buzzsprout, and they go on to say in this particular article that podcast cover art is one of the most important pieces of your podcast brand, which is why we're talking about it. Is the first thing potential listeners see an apple podcast and other directories. It signifies the quality of your podcast. I want to pause on that. It signifies the quality of your podcast like you were saying, you know, if you go on Apple podcast right now, Spotify whatever directory there's, I mean, it's, you're inundated with at least 100 shows just on that homepage alone. And if your podcast artwork is looking janky or amateurish, you know. And it could not be. It could be maybe the best content, you know, a crispy audio, great guest interviews. But if your podcast artwork is looking amateurish, then that's what people gotta go off of. You know, it's the first thing they see in, you know, people make snap judgments like that. So spending time, or at least giving your podcast artwork that that level of importance. And thought, I think, you know, is a very important step when first starting out. And even if you're not starting out, you know, I'm definitely stolen. Actually, I'll start sharing my screen right now that has gone through quite a bunch of different iterations of my artwork. And I think a lot of that sense from just the subject matter. Being a visual. Hold on one second.
Blythe Brumleve:
10:03
I think you also really love just art in general.
Badr Milligan:
10:09
I am so what I've got pulled up right now, I'm sharing my screen somebody versions like and this is what I'm talking about. We put ourselves on Front Street. All right. We're here to share practical and real advice for you, even if it's embarrassing to look at back at. But I went ahead and compiled all of the different podcast artwork, and some of these, if I'm being real, you can't really even call podcast artwork, because they're not even a square shape. But, you know, you can kind of see the evolution of me, kind of finding my way. But this was the first ever podcast graphic, and I believe we use this as the podcast artwork. I made this in probably Microsoft Paint. Look at the quality of this. It's terrible, right? It's, it's not in a square format. There's a lot going on. It's kind of muddy. I mean, it looks very amateurish. But, you know, I did this in 2012 you know, I didn't know anything. And then it eventually, I think this was like version two, so I just added like, a white, a white. This is so embarrassing look at, but it's really funny. And then eventually we found, like, our look, and that particular gauntlet has been, as you'll see, a staple in the show, that is the logo, and it's gone through different iterations, but this at some point, you know, this is when I brought Edmund danzar, a professional graphic design artist, to make the logo that we've been using ever since. Let me help you out. Oh, and thank God, right? And then eventually, this was a different one. We tried. I wanted to go for something. I still love this one. I wanted to go for something that put our faces at the time. You know, I was recording the podcast with three other co hosts, and our personalities is what separated us from other podcasts. So I put that thought into the artwork. I think we did this around 2000 think 1718, I let this ride for like a year or two as our artwork, and people loved it, right? And it was also, it also correlates and ties into the subject matter we talk about comic books and and pop culture, where we base this off of famous comic book corner boxes, where they would have like a floating head in the background, and, you know, that was the appeal. We wanted it to feel like a comic book with the the old school stamp and headline so and all that. But this lets you know off the RIP. Okay, there's four people on this show. I think some of these are a little deep cut. I don't think this immediately screams like comic book other than the art style, but it lets you know that it puts faces to the to the name to the voices you're about to get into. Then eventually the the show, you know, we started, you know, life started happening. It became less of a conversational, four person show, and I wanted to let the brand speak for a selfie logo. So now I'm starting to think, you know, uh, branding, merchandising like, you know, what is the central short box icon that I could use across the board? And once again, I think this was a combo between Ed and Ashley, who did the previous one I just showed. But I wanted something a little more simple, a little more sleek. That's got the name I this kind of, I think this lasted for a year or two, and then just last year, I worked with another professional designer to kind of give it a little facelift, still using the classic, iconic iconography, iconography of the the gauntlet, the microphone, that has been around a while, that's, you know, that's kind of, yeah, familiar. Thank you so much. But something that stood out, something of a little more color, a little more simplistic, that could still be used in other platforms, other, you know, just branding and other merchandising opportunities. Now I want to share another tool, as I was like looking up tips for good podcast art that kind of speaks to what you were saying about the real estate and thinking about like, Okay, this artwork is going to be small. It's probably going to be viewed on a phone screen. There's a site called only pod.com they've got a few tools, some free, some not, but I think this is a free one where you can view your podcast cover art and you can preview it on what it would look like on different platforms. Either you can either upload your artwork or search for it here. But let's just try the short box. Switch to, I
Blythe Brumleve:
14:11
think you got to switch to that tab. Oh,
Badr Milligan:
14:14
got it all right. There we go. So here's the site. You can either upload your cover artwork or you can just search for a podcast or your name. In this particular case, I wanted to search for mine, so you can get a preview of what this artwork would look like on Apple podcast. I think even so the different pages. So this is like the search function. This is what it would look like in the library, in the Listen now all the different pages within Apple podcast. And as you can see here, you know, this is what it would look like among other shows. So you want something that that's attention grabbing, that's a little more striking, that would get someone's attention, and they also show you, like what it looks like in Spotify, etc. I think this is, you know, this is a new tool to me, but I think for a beginning podcast. Or someone that's creating in the middle of maybe rebranding or creating artwork, this will put you in the mindset of what you're dealing with, the competition, how you need to go ahead and structure your artwork.
Blythe Brumleve:
15:12
That's a good tool. It definitely helps to visualize what your artwork would look like next to someone else's. Because I think especially when you're trying to give instructions to a designer, you know, what examples are you sending them? But also just for your own mindset of understanding, sometimes, you know, we just want to, like, vomit everything that we want to do, and a lot of times it just is like to keep the same analogy. It's just a spin, like you just want just a little bit. You want two or three words. You want simpler, the better. So then that way someone can easily recognize and be familiar, recognize that familiarity, or see something that they might be interested in, to your earlier point of conveying what your show is about, who is the guest and things like that. And I think that's where, you know, one solid, like, really bright color, that's what really stood out to me as you were scrolling through all of those things, is that that yellow on your artwork really stands out, especially if someone's on, you know, dark screen mode, if you're scrolling through other, you know, sort of, I guess, businesses style podcasts that are going to have a more, I guess, antique look to them, where yours, you know, really pops and really stands out. So you know, what kind of podcast Do you have? What are others in your niche doing? But then also looking outside of your niche and seeing where you're kind of stand out. Because if you're appealing to podcasters. You're probably appealing to folks who are used to playing podcasts. And I say that because, like for me on overcast, I have folders and I have systems for pretty much my whole life. But in podcasting, I have it too, where I have different shows, and if they fit a specific category, then they go in that category. And once a week, I'll go through all of my categories and all of the relevant shows. So I have, you know, a sports tab where all of my sports shows are. I have, you know, a logistics tab where all of my logistics shows are. You'd be surprised at how many of these shows would you put them side by side? All look the same. All of their artwork looks the same. And so I think that just kind of goes back to, you know, the point of, like, trying to not overthink it, but also be aware of what is out there currently in the market. I also think too, like, look at some of the bigger shows. How often do they change their podcast artwork? Not very often. They want to keep that familiarity. So while it's normal to have, like, a brand evolution, like, of course, like, like yours, where each of those changes, I would argue, is is a necessity. But I think creatives also can tend to get tired of their content, of what they see, a lot, a lot sooner than their audience will, and that may cause you to make some rash decisions where maybe you should be focusing your efforts on, you know, just making better content, instead of changing your podcast artwork, because nobody's listening, or maybe your listeners have dropped, or something like that. Remember, nobody remembers your content like you remember your content. And so you have to keep that familiarity, especially as you as you get going, if you have major brand shifts, of course, do the update, but also communicate that to your audience in a variety of different formats, whether it's email social, so they're not surprised. So they don't open up the podcast app one day and they complete they just they don't even recognize that you've updated your artwork, because they're just skimming and they're just scrolling and they're trying to find something that you know sparks their attention. You run the risk, and it's a fine line to walk of relaunching a brand versus losing the familiarity that your audience may have with you.
Badr Milligan:
18:55
Well said, and I want to recap just a couple of the tools and advice and maybe one solid package here we've talked about, in terms of how we've created our artwork, we both talked about, you know, working with a professional designer. You know, there's, you know, a wide range of affordability when it comes to hiring, you know, a professional graphic designer or artist or Illustrator. In this case, you know, whether that be personal friends, you know, I was able to leverage my two amazing artist co hosts, and, you know, a co worker that dabbles in this. You mentioned Fiverr. I think that's a great option too. You know, there's plenty of price range artists that you can
Blythe Brumleve:
19:32
I've moved on to 99 designs. I know they've been around for a while, but I have just, just love the output of work that, or ideas that I've gotten from 99 designs I highly, highly recommend, and you could work with dozens, hundreds of designers to get a good look, versus like five, or where you're working with one person. Now,
Badr Milligan:
19:52
if you want to take artwork into your own hands, I think one tool that we both would recommend, because we personally use it. Is Canva, whether that be the free version or I there's, I think I'm I'm a converter and a truther. Now I say, pay the whatever 120 a year for well, did
Blythe Brumleve:
20:10
you see all the news, the the ruckus that they caused, that they were going to increase all the prices? And then the CEO, who I love, Canva, is a female owned company, female founded company. She's one of the richest women in Australia. She might be the richest woman in Australia, but that's where Canva was founded. That's neither here nor there. But they changed their mind, so they listened to the outcry of the people who use their platform. And so they're keeping the prices the same if you are a Canva customer, but it's like 120 bucks a year, and it's simplified so much of my design life. I think you can say the same with a lot of the my favorite item is being able to have templates and being able to for my episodes, for YouTube thumbnails, things like that, to have like six or seven different templates use Canva. You can resize that graphic into, you know, any kind of social media friendly graphic, whether it's a YouTube thumbnail or like a Tiktok vertical thumbnail. Yes, love Canva.
Badr Milligan:
21:13
Yeah. So Canva, great tool we both recommend. I'll have a link to that podcast cover preview tool I shared only pod.com/podcast, cover preview. There's another really awesome tool I didn't get a chance to share, but it's called cooler, C, O, O, L, E, R, and it'll generate a color palette for you, like you hit the space bar, and it'll show you different color palettes, and you can kind of tweak, you know, the certain colors you want, which I think is always a good starting point is thinking, like, what color palette am I working with? Like, what is, what fits my show? So there are a couple of the tools, and then I'm just do a rapid fire recap of the advice that we've talked about so far, just to kind of drill it into people's head. Make sure your art looks good at small scale. Leave out any minuscule, tiny text or detail that you can't look at on your phone. You want to aim for striking color, eligible, legible, legible text. You should be able to read your podcast. Name should be on the on the artwork. It should say exactly what I'm looking at. What else do I got use the apple podcast requirements, I think, as a basis and structure, right? So it's Apple podcasts will tell you that your artwork needs to be 3000 by 3000 pixels, I think, or something that affect it needs to be in square shape that, you know, I don't know them off the top of my head, but Apple podcast has that written out what your artwork should be Spec wise. I think using that as a basis will go a long way, because more than likely, every other directory is just going to use that as well. Think about the communication, the messaging that you want your artwork to communicate on your behalf to the listeners, like what the subject of your podcast should be very clear by the artwork. Use minimal origin clutter. Use high resolution images. I cannot tell you how many podcasts I've seen that use just not the best image resolution, like images that are low pixels or resolution, and they just don't look good when you on the off chance that you are looking at podcasts and a bigger screen, maybe a computer screen, etc, always use high resolution images. And then maybe keep in mind too, designing artwork that can be repurposed on other mediums, like I shared on mine. At some point, I started thinking, what is the central icon for the show, and will that look good on a shirt? Will that look good on a website? Will that look good on a social media post, or whatever it may be thinking larger than just the podcast, which, you know kind of sounds like a double negative compared to everything I just said. But you know, if you're thinking longevity wise and thinking like building a strong brand, you want to think about what your central icon or artwork would look like, maybe other mediums, and I guess most importantly, consider your audience right, like, what is, who is the ideal audience for you? And what are the imagery? What are the graphics, the things that speak to said audience? I think is a good, good way to wrap up this episode, yeah, method,
Blythe Brumleve:
24:12
keep it simple, stupid.
Badr Milligan:
24:18
I don't know the way you said, it had a little bit of bite, but I think it's a perfect time as any to turn the tables on our listeners. If you have any tips when it comes to making striking, attention grabbing podcast artwork, or if you got a story to share about how your podcast artwork came together, or some examples of your favorite ones, we would love to hear from you guys. Leave a comment in the YouTube video section, or text us That's right. Text us some fan mail. If you're listening to the podcast version, there's a link in the show notes. We've got other links to the things we shared in the show notes as well. Well, if that said, that is our episode today. Thank you so much for hanging out and tuning in. We appreciate you guys until next time, take care. Peace. You.
