Alexandra (Sasha) Nefedova: [00:00:00] I definitely had that aha moment where I realized that maybe I'm a little bit different to some of the other bits that I worked with.
Megan Sprinkle: A young girl born in Russia, daughter of two physicians, participating in impactful and historic human medicine, moving to several different countries, learning multiple languages. This sets the stage for a remarkable woman who has taken her unique background, interests, and skill sets to impact the veterinary profession.
She completed her veterinary degree at the University of Melbourne in australia and worked in various clinical settings before discovering her passion for business. Her diverse career path would see clinical practice showing the financial value of experts at the University of Melbourne and now leading a group of 31 veterinary hospitals and pet retail within a very large company in
australia. Dr. Nefadova's enthusiasm will keep you engaged as we discuss the challenges, the learnings and the importance of bridging clinical knowledge with business acumen. [00:01:00] We discuss the significance of networking, some hard skills that are important in her type of corporate leadership role, and the importance of reconciling the financial aspects of veterinary practice with high quality patient care.
Near the end, we also touch on the broader landscape of the veterinary industry. Emphasizing really neat regulatory changes in Australia and the evolving role of veterinarians in public health and business. I had so much fun talking with Dr. Sasha Neffadova. So let's get to the conversation.
Where I like to start with everybody no matter where you're from is Did you know that you wanted to get into veterinary medicine?
Alexandra (Sasha) Nefedova: Yeah, I am I have a very medical family, my parents are both doctors and their parents were doctors. Up until the point that doctors, well, women weren't allowed to be doctors, so they were nurses. Um, so I've always wanted to be in the scientific field and do medicine and I loved animals, so I thought that Vet Med would be the place for myself.
From an [00:02:00] early age.
Megan Sprinkle: And I think you had said that you were actually born in Russia, so not only were your parents physicians, but they also sounded like they traveled a lot. Now, is that normal, or did they have a special type of Dr.
Degree that caused them to travel.
Alexandra (Sasha) Nefedova: Yeah, no, it's actually a really interesting story. They were, we're all Russians who were born in Russia and, they both had PhDs. Um, my dad was a gynecologist, my mom's a pediatrician and they worked in a hospital together. And one day there was a man walking around the hospital talking English.
And my dad spoke a bit of English. So he said, Oh, hello. You know, I speak a bit of English. He said, Oh, can you show me around the hospital? Show me around Moscow. So dad kind of took him around. It was a very friendly interaction just to begin with just a social interaction. And then, this guy actually worked for the university of Queensland and he had a research facility there.
So he said, Oh, look, I'm actually looking for some, PhDs and research fellows to come work for me. Would you and [00:03:00] Elena, my mom be interested. And they ended up getting a visa and actually coming to Australia through that path. it's very fascinating, but he, because my mom was a pediatrician, she was also an immunologist.
And she actually studied the impact of the Chernobyl disaster on lymphocytes of children that lived in the area. [00:04:00] So she took that preliminary research from Moscow to this lab in Queensland and they did a bit of research from there. She even brought some samples across from children that she'd done research with over the years.
So that was kind of the beginning of the journey. And then they found another research facility in Canada to work in. And then we moved to Melbourne and I've been in Melbourne now for Uh, very long time, over 20 years.
Megan Sprinkle: Oh, [00:05:00] wow. So it's funny cause my parents both were working around children as well. So my dad is a child psychiatrist and my mom is a teacher with a master's in early childhood development.
So it's kind of neat that both of your parents are also like around babies and newborns. So. You probably had a fantastic, very healthy childhood.
Alexandra (Sasha) Nefedova: Definitely. Very diverse. very interesting to learn a different language when you're six years old or seven years old. I actually couldn't understand the concept that people speak another language when you're that little.
So I assumed everybody would talk English, but then translate it back into Russian in their heads. Cause I
couldn't
get how you could speak another language. But anyway, I got there. Eventually I can talk English now. So that's good.
Megan Sprinkle: And then I know in Australia, the system is you have high school, then you go to very much into like that straight career track.
So you kind of start med school after that. But I think [00:06:00] you, you also not only started young, but you even, I think skipped a grade or something. Yes, I did.
Alexandra (Sasha) Nefedova: It sounds more impressive than it is, but because I traveled so much around everywhere. , the Canadian education system is very different to Russia, which is very different to Australia.
So I, across all those travels, my mom was like, Oh, you've done a couple of months of grade five. We'll just put you in grade six when we go to the next place. So over time that accumulated and I finished high school when I was 16 and I started my vet degree when I was 16, which means I graduated when I was 21.
So back then we had a bachelor of vet science, which was our entire medical degree. Now they do have to do a DVM, a doctor of veterinary medicine. So they do a preliminary degree like biomed or science or something. So it's slightly different now, but back in my day, I was one of the last cohorts that just had the, um, five years of clinical study.
And that was it. I was out in practice.
Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, well, [00:07:00] I was several years older before I got out of veterinary school because we have additional years there because of our undergrad. Yes. And I, you know, just kind of looking back, I, I. I felt so young and it's just a time of your life where, you know, you're, you're figuring yourself out on top of like doing something very intense, like medicine.
And so how, how did you feel? You know, don't, don't take my emotions. What, what was it like for you getting out and doing medicine? I was so
Alexandra (Sasha) Nefedova: young. It was, I'll tell you a funny story first, and then I'll give you my, I guess, feelings about it. So, one time I had just graduated, so I must have been 21. I worked for Melton Veterinary Clinic, which is kind of a, a rural practice really back in those days.
So we didn't have any large clients. We only saw small companion animals, but there was lots of horses around, lots of cows. It was a regional [00:08:00] area. And I had this elderly lady come in with a cat that had feline lower urinary tract disease or cystitis. I think you call it in the States. so I was really excited because I knew what it was and I diagnosed and I did the urinalysis and I drew the bladder on the whiteboard and I drew substance P and the, uh, you know, pain mechanisms and all this stuff.
And the lady said, Oh, that's wonderful. Dear. When's the doctor coming in? And I said, Oh, I am the doctor. And she was very shocked because I was obviously very young. So that's just a funny story and it wasn't offensive or bad and we had a laugh about it afterwards. So it was all good, but it was definitely hard because you're right.
The responsibility you feel as any clinician of any age starting for the first time is very shocking. and you, I think we all have that moment when we start practicing and realize, Oh, I have to make this decision. That's actually my choice. So if someone asks, Oh, where's the vet? I need to ask a question.
And you're like, Oh, that's me. I'm the vet. I have to [00:09:00] answer that. I definitely, I didn't struggle. I was very, motivated to be successful. I definitely had a very tense point, especially when it comes to surgery, because I think we all have that as well, where you need more caseload, but you're worried about doing something you're not quite ready for.
so expanding that Skill base was. You know, challenging at times, but I had a really great mentor. And then I traveled to the UK to do some locum work there. And then my clinical exposure just exploded because I did a lot of emergency work. and that's where my love for emergency kind of started to bloom, but yeah, it was very, very difficult.
Also, I am a mother now, so, I've had a two and a half year old and a seven year old, and, um, I definitely have more appreciation for the clients that would come in, you know, moms with kids and all these things happening all at once. And I have a lot more empathy now than I think I did back then for those kinds of situations.
[00:10:00] So, you know, we all develop as human beings through life and that filters into our clinical practice and how we practice medicine for sure.
Megan Sprinkle: Yes, And then I know that as you were starting to grow confidence in the medicine side, you started to notice something else that was interesting and you were getting, you know, enthusiastic about and maybe not everybody around you were.
So do you mind sharing that moment where you're kind of like, Oh, you know, this is interesting, but you're the only one who's this interested?.
Alexandra (Sasha) Nefedova: Oh, absolutely. It was so funny to me. So I've always loved business and for all my family members that were all doctors, I have one grandmother who worked in business.
so she ran the food supply to schools in Moscow. So she was actually a really senior manager and a senior executive that managed all the supply chain and all the food and lots of stuff. And I'd hang out at her work when I was a kid and hear her do meetings and talk about things. So I had a bit of a [00:11:00] flavor for that then.
And, um, I remember I was in clinical practice. I might've been in GP still, and we were talking about missed charges and the effect that it has on the bottom line and the effect that it has on sales, and I was like, yeah, cool. I'm just going to voluntarily review all my invoices and do all this stuff.
Like, this is great. And then everyone around was like, Oh my God, we have to talk about money. I don't want to talk about money. I just want to treat animals and fix animals. And I was like, what do you mean? But we can't run the business if we don't have money. That's the point. Like we just won't exist. And you're right.
It was very interesting to me because I just assumed that everybody was as interested in this as I was, but they weren't. They were very resistant to it. And it's almost like they, they thought that they were polar opposites, like you can't be a good clinician and care about money at the same time. Where I actually immediately knew that you have to do both because when we have resources, we can get better outcomes for our patients.
That's the whole point of [00:12:00] creating a rich environment that we can create good clinical outcomes from. So yes, I definitely had that aha moment where I realized that maybe I'm a little bit different to some of the other vets that I worked with.
Megan Sprinkle: And that's good that you noticed that you needed both to do what everyone loved to do, which was help.
The animals in the end and the clients as well. When did you start to feel that you might want to do something a little bit different than the clinical side of things and maybe move a little bit more into the business side of things?
Alexandra (Sasha) Nefedova: So I came back from the UK after locuming. I'd done my emergency practice and I started emergency practice in Australia.
I did that for about three years, which is quite long for emergency and night shifts and things. I was definitely very into it. , and then I had that. Split in the road. I think we all have as well, where, you know, do I specialize? Do I own my own practice or do I do something else? I did toy with the idea of [00:13:00] specializing.
I was about to commit to doing my membership. So in Australia, we have memberships with the Australian college and we have fellowships. And once we're a fellow, we're a specialist. So I started down that path, but then I realized that I am actually very interested in business. I'm very passionate about it.
And when you're interested in something, it comes very easy. other people feel your passion, so it's easy to get other people involved and engaged. So I thought, look, I'll try. I started doing some further study in finance, which I loved. I started doing accounting, which I loved. I just loved accounting.
Um, so I finished my studies and I got a role as a business development manager for the University of Melbourne. To commercialize the assets that the VET faculty has. And that was just fascinating. I absolutely loved every minute of it. And I love the fact that the people that I was working with were also vets and were also not interested in making money.
And it was my [00:14:00] job to make money from the things that they were doing that were really rich and should create better outcomes for society in the world. But that needs economics that needs commercial to get it off the ground. So, yeah, I was in that role for a couple of years and I absolutely loved that.
So that was how my commercial career started.
Megan Sprinkle: Yes. Having been in academia as well, it is extremely strong that people forget how important the money side of things is. They, they know it, that they have to get grants to do research, but it's, laborious. It's, you know, I have to do this. Like, this is the worst part, you know, it's very, it's very different.
And so. I think that is so neat that you're, you come in with this enthusiasm. But the other thing that I really wanted to be able to ask you is, it's fantastic that you're able to bring both this veterinary medical background. You understand the veterinarians, [00:15:00] you also understand the business side of things.
And. Also to make things go well and do things, especially like what you're we're about to get to on what you have done is you have to be able to communicate between the business people who focus very much on the business and the science medical people, because a lot of times they speak two different languages.
So that's why I think. one of the cool things that you do is that you're able to kind of interpret and translate and help people understand both sides of it. So did that come very natural or what have you kind of learned that helps to encourage people to have that appreciation of there is this communication that you have to have in order to make life a lot easier on top of accomplish what you want to accomplish?
Alexandra (Sasha) Nefedova: Absolutely. I think the reality is, is. We have to accept that perception is reality. So whatever [00:16:00] that individual perceives is their reality. It doesn't mean it's good or bad. It doesn't mean it's right or wrong. It's just what it is for them. And I think through just who people are that want to become vets, They're almost selected for being these highly empathetic, highly caring people that, yeah, maybe just associate money with greed or profit equals greater, you know, that's a very big stretch, I guess.
But I think we're in the vet community, very geared to be thinking that way. So because I'm so passionate about it, because my perception is my reality, and I know that that's just not true, I want to create ways to communicate that to vets that kind of shift their thinking. So one thing I've done over the years is lecture at the DVM students, the vet med students at the University of Melbourne.
Um, so I came back to do that as a sessional lecturer in the final years, they had some like one or two lectures on how to run a clinic, how to run a practice, what is a profit and loss statement? What is a balance sheet? All that sort of stuff. [00:17:00] Um, so I did a couple of lectures with them and the way I structured it is I showed them a profit and loss statement and I showed them a hematology panel and I said, tell me everything that's similar between these two things.
And the point of the lesson is that it's just data. It's not good or bad. It's not right or wrong. It's not emotional. It's just data and whatever profit we make from our vet business, we can then reinvest into our business to get capital, to buy more equipment, to pay our people more, to create more security for them and frame it kind of in that way so that they're armed with the tools to also have a little bit of knowledge.
So things don't look as scary when they see numbers and accounting language and things like that, just the same as when you first started vet school and someone would show you a hematology panel and it'd be very scary because you don't know what it means, but once you know pieces, you can unpack it, you can feel empowered and you can understand that data is just data.
It's there to enrich us, to make better decisions. [00:18:00] So I've gone on a very long journey, doing that with the students, which was really well received. and now with my current role in managing a lot of clinics and a lot of veterinarians, it's something I'm really passionate about teaching and communicating things in a way that's not forcing someone to love it.
They're not going to love it as much as me and that's okay, but they just need to be empowered a little bit to feel comfortable and confident to use the tools at their disposal to make better decisions. Very passionate about this.
Megan Sprinkle: No, this is good. No, this is fantastic. And I, I also like how you saw these things as assets at the university, because I was speaking with some financial advisors who do focus in veterinary medicine or veterinarians, And they talked about, , needing to see that what you do is a value that people want to pay. so these are assets. So can you speak maybe a little bit more to that around, these are valuable [00:19:00] things that we should be proud of and how that they're assets.
Alexandra (Sasha) Nefedova: Yeah. Oh, look, I have a very, this is a bit of an extreme example, but I had one academic who was, a little bit earlier in their career and they were doing some Consultancy work, which wasn't necessarily for a project, but they were giving advice to someone else to get an outcome.
So I said, well, great, I'll get a contract for you. And we'll charge per hour. And they were like, Oh no, no, we can't do that. And I said, well, it's your expertise. You are the asset. You've dedicated so much personal time and money and energy to be educated, to have this information. It's not about gouging other people, but it's about understanding that it's a transaction.
You know, if the transaction is part of something bigger. So you do want to work on a big project. Sure. You'll commit some free time so you can structure it and set it up for success and go, but if people just want your advice so that they can get an outcome for themselves, you should be compensated for that.
Lawyers charge for every minute. Plumbers charge for every minute. Why are we [00:20:00] any different when we're actually perhaps more educated than them and have worked even harder to have the knowledge that we have? that's a very extreme example. Most academics know to do that. So that was obviously someone that was quite, you know, junior or on their first beginning of their journey.
I think other things through the university were things like putting on CPD events and conferences, and I really was quite strong and putting some financial rigor behind that to make them like profit centers. Because again, yes, we're doing that to train people, but that should be something that we derive value from because we have so many experts.
So it was a very rich opportunity because there's so many things there, that are commercial because they have intrinsic value. And a lot of people vets, especially don't see it in that way. They just see themselves as themselves and they're very hardworking people and they want to be helpful because that's our nature as veterinarians.
So, um, yeah, that's kind of the, the things that I delved into when I was there.
Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, so I [00:21:00] have two questions. One, when you were talking about, these other jobs charged by the minute or, you know, hour or whatnot, like a lawyer, right?
And, people already expect that, but for some reason, I think we have a customer population that doesn't always remember that, that we do have some clients who come in and feel like things should be at least. Low cost, if not free. So it's kind of an interesting cultural difference in our profession. At least that's some of the things that we see.
So is there something that we can do better and it may take time, but what do you think about when it comes to that difference of culture in our clients? Not necessarily that already that that should be normal?
Alexandra (Sasha) Nefedova: I think the, the great strength and the great [00:22:00] challenge is that we set the culture. We as veterinarians set that culture.
So a good example I think is online booking. I assume the U. S. is very similar to Australia, but for online booking for services in Australia, if you want to get a haircut, if you want to get your dog groomed, almost everywhere takes a deposit. So because we have scale, because we have momentum and enough people have been exposed to that way of working and that way of interacting with that company, it's no longer a pain point.
So we have to get momentum and have this message at scale. For it to penetrate the client base of pet owners to understand that that's just how things are. So I think it'll take time. You're right. I think it will take a communal effort from all of us. But the only other thing I'll say is it is very, I guess, location dependent.
It's very clinic dependent. So, you know, I know that in the regional clinics, it's a little bit more difficult to make impact. If you've got a community, it's a tight [00:23:00] community that it's the people there, and they've always done things a certain way. that's a difficult scenario for like a metropolitan area.
Once you have that scale and momentum. I think people do shift. And the other thing I'll say is I'm guilty of this. And I think all vets are guilty of this. Sometimes we give attention to the people that shout the loudest, even though they're not that many, right? Sometimes we think our clients are so recalcitrant.
They're so worried about money. Are they, or was it just that one person that left that Google review and the 100 other people you saw that week were actually quite happy to do what you suggested. The other thing I'm very big on is that we have a, um, I don't, I can't remember the word. It's a, it's like when you reinforce your own biases, confirmation bias.
Megan Sprinkle: Yes.
Alexandra (Sasha) Nefedova: Yes. Confirmation bias. So I call it, when I talk to my vet teams, "winking in the dark", which is giving discounts when the customer [00:24:00] doesn't even know how much it costs in the first place. So a really good example is revisits. Lots of vets either don't charge for a revisit or filled, you know, you fiddle with the number or they just charge the cytology, the ear cytology instead of charging the actual recheck consult, that kind of example.
, the fascinating thing to me there is that client doesn't know how much it would have cost if you had to just charge the full amount. So we're winking in the dark, but then we're thinking, Oh, I charged less that time and they were happy. Therefore I need to keep discounting to make sure that clients are happy.
We're really, if we just charge consistently for what we're doing and clients are accustomed that that's the way, and that's the process for all there's acceptance because that's just the way things are. Do we have a rant about lawyer fees? I mean, we probably do to our families, but it is what it is.
What are you going to do about it? Right?
That's my
perception.
Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. And then another unique thing is I was just listening to a different [00:25:00] podcast and she talked about that different pet owners value different things. And I think this is a human thing. It's just kind of interesting how it manifests in veterinary medicine.
It's that, you know, some people really are very money focused on making decisions. And then there's some who are very, no, I value convenience over all the other values that we talk about. So that's kind of an interesting thing too, is to not necessarily assume , everybody values everything the exact same way.
And then, so we have to deal with that too, I think. And, and we don't, at least in the United States, insurance works very differently than human insurance. And so that's a whole nother ball of wax, but you know, as I'm thinking about all that too, then I'm also thinking about, even though people value something differently, the one.
Thread that everybody did have in common. All pet owners is they really do care about their pet [00:26:00] and it just may look different how they express the, their focus. So it may not align our, the values may not align with the, the veterinary team. Um, but everybody really loves their pet. And I think that's important to know.
And it is a Kind of a unique relationship with pets and as time has come through the years a lot of people are Seeing their pets as members of the family So it's, uh, it's neat to have your parents coming from a pediatric background, because at least I have tried, when I've tried to help other people understand a little bit what veterinary medicine is like, I say probably the most similar profession Pediatrics.
So have you talked to your parents about that a little bit on comparing it to veterinary medicine and any insights there?
Alexandra (Sasha) Nefedova: I haven't actually, I should. That would be very interesting dinner conversation. [00:27:00] Um, my mom works as a GP now, so she was a pediatrician in, Russia. So she does, she does general practice.
Look, it's interesting. We obviously treat each other. So she treats my kids and I treat her pets. So we have, you know, medical discussions about things together. But look, the, the one thing I'll say is in the medical profession, I do feel that doctors, this is a completely anecdotal, N equals one for me to, to say this, but, I feel like doctors don't take as much personal responsibility for things. I'll share this. This is a big story, but my mom had a complaint against her once for like a skin issue from one of her clients. And, you know, I came over to the house and had dinner with her and I was like, Oh my gosh, this, you know, have a complaint.
That's so scary, blah, blah, blah. And she was like, Oh, it's fine. It's, you know, I send it to the insurance and I've done, I know I've done the right thing. I've spoken to my hospital director. It's a non issue. And then she went off and had a cup of tea and it was like a non, non thing for her. So I think they [00:28:00] definitely, are not, they don't internalize the things that go wrong, perhaps as much as us vets do sometimes.
And they're definitely supported by a system that's very different for us in VET. American Australia is also very different there too. We're quite a cottage industry in VET here in Australia. You guys have some, bigger corporates like Banfield and things like that. where we just have a lot of independent clinics that maybe don't have the same systems.
that the larger sites do, but yeah, I think, um, from a client perspective, it is very challenging when you are dealing with children and obviously with humans, but they're very systemized in the human medical space. Whereas we're a lot more, you know, it's up to the individual clinician to make quite a few decisions.
so I think there's a bit of protection in doing it the way that they do, but they're a different industry and they're much older than we are as well.
Megan Sprinkle: Very good point. Yeah, I think it allows us to be very emotionally close. Sometimes that could be a good thing. Sometimes it's not. So in the human medicine [00:29:00] side from my, you know, understanding it is that there's a complaint. It usually the complaint goes to the hospital, not as direct to the individual. And so there is, some, Feeling of safety for the individual versus in veterinary medicine. And it is Yeah, it feels very it is very personal feeling Yeah, so I totally get that as well.
But yeah, it is interesting to to see all these differences and again back to the More of the business side of things because I kind of wanted to flip it there because so we're talking about all these things that the veterinary team is understanding and having to Deal with both on the medical and emotional side, but the financial side now, I got a light layer that on top of it Yeah, how do you communicate the other way around?
so when you're talking to the business people who are focused on the numbers and You can talk data sheets all day and you're excited. How, how do you help them [00:30:00] understand the, the science and the medical people? Because I'm sure they're like, man, why can't they do this?
Alexandra (Sasha) Nefedova: That's such a good question.
That is such a good question. I don't have a very polished answer because to be honest, it's very hard. It's actually much harder. So just for context, I work managing a group of 31 veterinary hospitals within a much bigger company that has 300 retail stores. So my company that I work for now is actually primarily a retail business, but we have this vet business that I managed that's within there.
So I often have to relay the clinical information back to the board or the managing director or the CEO. And, um, to be honest, it's much harder than the vets because the vets are my people, I guess, so I know how to communicate to them. So it has taken me, I would say, the whole eight years that I've been in this role to learn how to do it properly, because it's very hard not to give [00:31:00] all the information from the dawn of time to try and explain things.
It does have to be quite succinct. So I've learned over the journey to really cherry pick, like, what's actually important. I can't think of an example right now, but you know, if we have a clinic, for example, that's underperforming. So that's a good example. I have to speak to that, to the management team.
I have to explain to them, you know, well, we have challenges recruiting. And, you know, I always go back to data to explain why it's so challenging to recruit. It's not the same as retail. the Australian vet association has just released our latest workforce survey. And it did show that 37 percent of all job ads in Australia take more than a year to fill.
So I give that context that, you know, this is the result, but this is the macroeconomic environment that we're operating in. So how do we compare to like the broader perspective? So I try and make it numbers based rather than detail based. and that's a very shocking figure, but there's [00:32:00] lots of opportunity for how we can be in control of our destiny in VET.
and that's how I try and package it when I speak to people that are not in VET, but it's very hard. It's very, very hard.
Megan Sprinkle: That, one that makes me feel a little bit better too, because I have a lot of those where I have to communicate the other way around. Yeah. It made me think back to your example of getting the whiteboard out and drawing the bladder.
It's like the business people don't want to see the drawing of the bladder. They
Alexandra (Sasha) Nefedova: don't care about Substance P. Yeah.
Megan Sprinkle: It's like, no, just give me the ROI number. and I apologize. I was getting all excited too. That is something you're, you are very, you're, you are very good at showing the enthusiasm around this.
And I just get excited and want to ask more questions about that. But let's get back to more of your journey too, because that is important as well. So you, you were at Melbourne and with the university but then you, you get to this, large number of hospitals that you're helping now too.
So what was kind [00:33:00] of the bridge? How did you get from A to B?
Alexandra (Sasha) Nefedova: Yeah, I think this is for anyone who's listening, that is a vet that wants to have a corporate career or is maybe thinking about it or they're like business. A lot of it is these serendipitous moments that happen as you grow in your career and meet people.
So, I met a, Drug rep or we call them drug reps in Australia. So the, I guess the, yeah, the people that work for pharma, uh, that come out and talk to clinics. So they were working with the university of Melbourne and, um, this person started working at this company Pet Stock and said, Oh, there's a role available for a general manager.
You should apply for that role. And unlike the university. This was a much more senior position. So I said, Oh, I'll try. Sure. Why not? And I've been there for eight years now. So this is the role I have now. when I started, I think we had about seven clinics and, uh, now we have 31 vet sites, um, we've doubled our profitability area to sales in that time, despite the macroeconomic [00:34:00] challenges that we're all having.
, and I do actually, this is a new development since you and I spoke last Megan, but I also manage our grooming and puppy school club. businesses, I guess, within the pet stock business now as well. So that was that jump in progression.
Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. I remember that you talked about, it's not just the hospitals, but there were, there's like groomers, puppy schools, all that's a huge portfolio.
And I think like, 400 groomers is what number I wrote down. I mean, there's, this is huge. And are you the main middle person when it comes to that, that communicating of the vet and back to the business person? Yes. Yep.
Alexandra (Sasha) Nefedova: Yeah. So I communicate directly to the managing director, the CEO, and occasionally the board, if there's like a big strategy to present, but yes, I'm the, we call it pet health.
Yeah. So vet, grooming, puppy school, all the facets of the business that involve animal health is for [00:35:00] me to speak to.
Megan Sprinkle: So being the one person in this very unique role, do you, how do you get, how do you feel supported? Like, do you have mentors you go to? How do you kind of help? Increase your personal growth and feeling like you are not alone.
Alexandra (Sasha) Nefedova: Yeah, that's a great question. Um, because the portfolio I manage now is so large. Um, I think for anyone else that's listening, that's in that category where you're really growing to that really big place. I actually found the thing that was the most pivotal is getting a good team. underneath me so that I am free to actually plan what I say, analyze the data properly, think.
I think it's very easy in management to always be doing because there's always problems. Everybody's always coming to you wanting a solution to a problem. It's just, it's not going to go away. It'll always be like that. You have to be in control of your own destiny and [00:36:00] carve out the time to just sit and think because you're thinking as the senior leader, right?
Is what sets everyone else up for success. So I definitely found that that was one of the big pivotal moments for me in doing my role. , when I was at the beginning of my journey and I was trying to break through into a corporate role, I did actually get some mentorship. , so I reached out to my university where I graduated and they said, Oh, you should meet with Dr.
Liz. she was in a commercial role at the time. I think she might've been working for a pharma company. Oh no, she was working for a hospital managing a big hospital. And, um, I had a coffee with her and, , that was also very serendipitous because Dr. Liz is now the CEO of the RSPCA in Victoria. And, , I now volunteer for them as well.
So our careers crossed paths over many decades, but she gave me a lot of really great insights. And yeah, at the very beginning of my. commercial career. She really helped me out and gave me some direction. [00:37:00]
Megan Sprinkle: Do you remember like probably some of the best advice? Yes. Yeah. The golden
Alexandra (Sasha) Nefedova: nuggets. Yes. Um, she actually, she actually did say that.
She said, just be aware of all the opportunities that come up because they will be serendipitous. I think that's actually a really clear point that in clinical practice it's very staged. So if you want to be a specialist, you're an intern, you're a resident, you do your exams, you become a specialist, like that's it.
And it's very structured and you just have to put in the work and you'll get there. Where in a commercial and a business role you do have to network, you do have to meet other people. Not through like a covert way because you just don't know what will come up, just genuinely. Be open to learning from others and having people in your network, and then eventually a time will come where they'll say, Oh, there's a job that is going.
I think you'd be really good for that. You should apply. And it does grow and it does take time. But she that was what she said to me is just be open to all opportunities. Be open to actually talking to people [00:38:00] openly and sharing with them who you are and what your journey is, and what you know and what you care about.
And that's exactly what I did and that's exactly how I got this role. And coming back to her and her being the CEO, um, of R-S-P-C-A, that's, that's huge as well. And I think that's how her career has progressed as well.
Megan Sprinkle: Well, and I find it fun to not, it's not like you're going in as a, with a business strategy to network as you get to go in and talk about what you like to talk about and you find the people who do, or they see your enthusiasm.
And they will remember that. And so when you see the opportunity, they will think of you and sometimes that's, that's even better is to be the, the one person who is excited about, you know, your invoices. And so that's fantastic. And I wanted to bring this out to you [00:39:00] because for those who might be interested in management or at least understanding what it's like, you know, I hate not necessarily climbing the ladder, but, but it's, it's a different job than, you know, gathering data, sharing data, now you're managing people.
So , how do you enjoy that? What have you found along with that kind of different type of role?
Alexandra (Sasha) Nefedova: Oh, I love it. I absolutely love it. Um, uh, I, in terms of, I guess coming into that field, you're absolutely right. I like how you framed that. It's a different job. It is absolutely a different job, and you do have to have hard skills, so you need to go and do some training.
Not everyone has to do an MBA. I think vets think that you have to do an MBA to do anything related to management. No, you need to know the hard skills that are fundamental skills. So for whatever country you're in, you do need to know accounting. You need to understand how tax works. You need to understand how different statements look so you can actually analyze the data properly.
[00:40:00] Economics for me was a really changing topic because it opened my eyes as to how businesses make decisions and basically how the world works. , because we vets were very intelligent. We're very educated, but our education is really specific. , we're like the broader education of how the world works, like how to banks work.
You know what I mean? We don't know we're not taught that that's not part of our training. So I do find that if I hadn't have done that training, I wouldn't be able to do the job I do now. I do want to share with any of your listeners that I started doing my MBA and I actually left after two semesters.
So I graduated with a graduate certificate. I got honors, but I did all those hard skills subjects. And I felt that I was prepared enough to then learn on the job. As I went into this. The roles that I was doing. So don't feel like if you're thinking about a corporate career, you have to do the MBA, you have to finish it, you have to get honors, and then you can [00:41:00] start doing whatever you need to have some hard skills, but not absolutely everything in an MBA.
And, I think because I had the hard skills and the enthusiasm, the people that I worked with were engaged with what I was saying. And then the people management became a lot easier because we all had togetherness. And, I always. Absolutely love and revel in the fact that my team in our vet business, we're a clinic.
So we've all worked in a clinic that is that high functioning, well oiled machine where everyone is just like this. We're prepared. the nurse knows I'm going to do this. I got to prepare this. Sasha doesn't like it this way. So I'm going to do it this way for her. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Like you don't have to ask.
You just know. And if you have a problem, you can get to the root cause and talk openly. Even if it's uncomfortable, you can do it quickly and just say, look, that didn't go well. Let's reset. Next time we're going to do this. Are we all aligned? Yep. No problem. No one gets upset about things. [00:42:00] That kind of clinic atmosphere is what we have now.
And we're all vets and nurses. And sometimes we finish the day and we say we, we felt like we worked an emergency shift because we haven't had lunch and we're running around fixing problems, but then we'll reconnect together and do something that makes us feel. grounded and then sort of go forward. So I have brought a lot of what I've learned in clinical practice into the way I manage people, because I've seen it be so effective in those clinics that are well oiled machines.
And you can feel it when you walk in, like you can just feel that everyone's connected. The surgeries are tight. Everyone, patients are looked after. Everyone's clean. Everything needs to be where it needs to be. That's the, that's a business model, I guess. And that's a good way of working as a team that I've tried to emulate in my commercial work.
It's a very big answer.
Megan Sprinkle: No, it's perfect. And you started answering the question that I had, which is, what do you feel that you learned [00:43:00] being a veterinarian? Cause you were talking about competencies and things that help you do the job, but, and you started talking about this. So what did you learn being a veterinarian?
You can translate and bring into a very different atmosphere.
Alexandra (Sasha) Nefedova: So much, so, so much, especially in emergency as well. I feel like the skill of being able to manage an emergency is such a skill and we do it so well in vet, because we are responsible for so many things where the anesthetist and where the surgeon, and we have to communicate with the client, that's really hard to do all those things, but once you master it, your capacity to deal with problems is just so different.
And, we've had some challenges or problems happen in my role over the years and bad things have happened, but I've never felt out of control. And I think me being calm around others has helped others be calm, because they haven't had that same experience that I have. So dealing with, with challenges and with [00:44:00] emergencies, cause there are business emergencies.
It's all the time to do with people and law and money and things like that, but being calm and being able to think clearly, I think is a really great skill that we have as vets. multitasking. So all the things that we do as vets all day, every day, I feel like I can do differently to my other colleagues that aren't vets.
and to a high level and look, I don't, I mean, I only have my own experience to speak to, but I can't think of another profession where you do get to that team connectiveness that you have in vet. So that clinic connection that we've all felt at some point in our careers. I just don't know if you can get that.
If you've worked in corporate only your whole life. it's very, very special and, um, it's a very good way of working. It's very, very productive. I wish I could bottle it or analyze it. Maybe when I want to retire, I'll do a PhD for fun on the. analytics of team dynamics in a well oiled machine vet clinic [00:45:00] or something, but it's very special.
So I've definitely taken that with me along the journey.
Megan Sprinkle: Oh, I like that a lot. and spoken like a true veterinarian who is never going to retire. You're going to do a research. For fun, right? Oh, well, you know, we're, You are now and you're looking into the future. We're recording this kind of towards the end of the year too, so this is kind of nice.
When you're looking forward to one, your career and then the veterinary industry as a whole, what are you looking forward to the most?
Alexandra (Sasha) Nefedova: well, I guess there's a personal and a broader answer. So the broader answer I'll start with first, I'm really excited about the future for the Australian vet industry.
for us, we have a very fragmented industry. It's very state based actually, you guys are very similar in America. And, um, in terms of the regulations, even in terms of what constitutes an active veterinary medicine is not [00:46:00] consistent across our States in our country. This makes it very hard for us to be functional, makes it very hard for us to be developed.
And it's not in line with modern Australia. It's not in line with the expectations of our modern clients, of our patients of modern medicine. All that stuff. So my answer is that I'm very excited that there's actually quite a bit of movement in the Australian political landscape. Um, so the New South Wales government actually asked for some feedback from veterinarians.
They did submissions from the industry to try and review some of these regulatory acts. And it's very dry, but that's how we make change is once those acts change, then we can actually be more aligned within our industry. And it's absolutely changing. the Australian vet association, I'll just tell you this quickly, cause it's very exciting.
They've made a submission to the federal government and they've actually quantified the public goods that we as vets provide to society in [00:47:00] wildlife.
Megan Sprinkle: Oh wow.
Alexandra (Sasha) Nefedova: So they've said that, wildlife koalas, you know, Dr. Megan's gonna fly to Australia and spend lots of money with us. 'cause she wants to see a koala Who's treating those koalas for free when they're injured?
Vets are, they're public good. So the government needs to fund us and we have been a chronically underfunded industry. So I think they estimated about $2.5 million over four years was the estimate they gave to it. Um, the point is, is that they've quantified it. made a submission to the federal government.
Like, this is progress. We've not had this before in Australia. And, it's very exciting. So I'm excited about that. and on a personal note, I am starting to expand my voluntary contributions as a director. So providing that commercial advice, and this is how you progress in your career as you get more senior.
And you can eventually, when you retire, serve on boards of companies to provide that insight, to then get better [00:48:00] outcomes for businesses, which elevates our industry, which elevates our patient outcomes at that big level. so I've actually recently, actually, since the last time we spoke, I've joined a company called Nova, which is a recruitment agency in Australia to help recruit locums.
So I'll be a non executive director with them. And they're very exciting because they're creating systems that allow our casual workforce to find jobs quicker. I think in America you have something called Roo. Yes,
Yeah, this is kind of similar for Australia because we don't have anything in Australia.
so I'm going to volunteer my time with them like as an advisory role. So I'm very excited about that because that will change vet clinics is, you know, it'll change the workforce. It'll change mental health for a profession when you can actually find vets quicker and people can take holidays.
People can take maternity leave. When you can find vets to substitute. So that's my next step that I'm very excited about.
Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. Just to [00:49:00] comment on both of those one, it is, it can be extremely hard to quantify the value of science work, going back to that, the challenge of communicating back and forth between a science group and then a business minded group is it can be really hard.
To put a number on what we do. Yeah. Right. And so I am excited to hear that because maybe we can learn how to do that and apply it into other situations. And that that's huge because we do need that money to be able to work and do what we want to do. And then on the personal comment is, I'm so glad that we have people like you, people who understand the veterinary industry, who are able to have seats at these tables, bringing that voice to the table is huge.
It is going to impact our industry. And so. For people who are interested in doing these very different roles, you know, coming from your veterinary background. It is [00:50:00] important. Like, they need your perspective. When decisions are made. So I just wanted to acknowledge that I'm very excited to hear that for you.
And thank you so much for doing that. And just finally, the last question I love to ask. is what is something, and this does not have to be career related, it can be anything, but what is something you are very grateful for right now?
Alexandra (Sasha) Nefedova: Ah, I'm grateful for my family. I think it's definitely not career related, but, yeah, I think, you know, our work is important to us, but it does not define us.
Uh, and for me being with my family is always precious. Being with my Children and having time to spend with my Children is precious. I'm grateful that I have a role that has a little bit more flexibility than shift work at times. So, for example, today is a Friday, which is my usual work from home day, and I walk my daughter to and from school on a Friday.
So I'm so grateful I can do that. That's really special. I know a lot of people don't have that luxury. but that creates my [00:51:00] bond with my daughter and makes her feel supported. That's what I'm most grateful for. That's what I care about the most, even though I'm passionate about a lot of things, my work is, is not all, all to me and all that's to me, my family is definitely a big part of that.
Megan Sprinkle: I hope you enjoyed this fascinating veterinary story. We can make an impact in so many places. Check out the show notes for lots of resources. Please make sure you are subscribed on your podcast app, subscribe on the YouTube channel and follow me on LinkedIn, where I hang out the most. You can contact me on LinkedIn, on the website at vetlifereimagined.
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