Megan Sprinkle: [00:00:00] While the veterinary industry is growing in actions toward improving mental health, well-being, insert the term you are exhausted of hearing, maybe joy, there are still elements of all of this that still have a long way to overcome stigma. Welcome to Vet Life Reimagined. I'm your host, Dr. Megan Sprinkle.
Megan Sprinkle: And today our guest is Phil Richmond. He is at the forefront of helping people understand the human behind things like suicidal thoughts and substance abuse. Dr. Richmond has a very involved list of accolades, so I will put more in the description, along with other resources for you to check out. But Dr.
Megan Sprinkle: Richmond is a practicing veterinarian whose personal story explains why he is so successful, so passionate about vet med, and helping others, particularly with substance abuse. He is the Florida Veterinary Medical Association's Professional Well Being Committee Chair. He holds multiple certifications, like an applied positive psychology, appreciative inquiry, workplace well being, psychological health and safety, trauma informed workplaces
Megan Sprinkle: [00:01:00] resiliency, training, behavior, change, and suicide prevention. And he is the founder and chief consultant of flourishing Phoenix veterinary consultants. So let's get to this amazing conversation with Dr. Phil Richmond.
Megan Sprinkle: All right. Welcome Phil. I'm very excited. You have been on my dream guest list for a long time.
Megan Sprinkle: So this is the moment is here. I finally get to learn more about your personal story and share it too. So when, when did you know that you wanted to get into Veterinary medicine?
Phil Richmond: Oh, wow. I, you know, so I would say my story is probably not much different than, you know, a lot of us were growing up. I was very blessed. We didn't have a whole lot of financial resources, but I had ducks, cats, you know, dogs, my first dog that I got, I remember there was a Dalmatian that was tied up, you know, in front of this trailer in our neighborhood. They had a sign for like $5 or something. And so I, you know, I went and mowed lawns, like, so I could get the money as soon as possible, like that day so that we could, you know, we could [00:02:00] buy him.
Phil Richmond: And so just always connected to animals and then just had a, you know, like a lot of us too, had a really strong love for science and, And that, so it just, just always felt like the, the right thing. And I had some, you know, was I going to go into human medicine? You know, was I going to go into veterinary medicine, and then ended up making the decision when I was in undergrad, where I went back and work for the clinic that I grew up working, working in the kennels at, I went back and worked there as a, as a veterinary assistant.
Phil Richmond: I was like, Nope, this is, this is what I want to do. So I switched gears and. Got out of the pre-med society and went and started the pre vet society back up at the university that I was at. And that was it.
Megan Sprinkle: When you were, you know, starting to get into vet school and getting into vet school, did you have an idea of what you wanted to do in vet med? Like, what was your idea and did that change over time?
Phil Richmond: It's a great question. So, I will say that I was almost [00:03:00] always sure that I wanted to be a general practice veterinarian because I loved everything. Well, not everything. I wasn't, I didn't love Therio, but not, not, we don't have to love everything, but I loved cardiology.
Phil Richmond: There's a reason for that, that we may get into loved surgery, loved opto, but I really loved being able to connect with people, you know, and the thought of. Being in a position and now I'm old enough where this has happened, where I've seen, seen a patient from the first time that they've come in, you know, until 12, 14 years later, where I'm, you know, in the room when, you know, when we have them transition over and when they're at the end of their life and being able to be a part of that, there were a couple of times where I thought, well, maybe, you know, in vet school, maybe I'll, you know, Do a surgical residency or even when I was on large animal, when I was on an equine, I, even though we didn't have a lot of money, I got to learn how to ride horses when I was younger.
Phil Richmond: So, I was like, huh, maybe this, this would be pretty cool. And [00:04:00] then I realized this is a lot like work. And so hats off to all, all the equine practitioners. That is a job. So yeah,
Megan Sprinkle: in many ways, right.
Phil Richmond: Right.
Megan Sprinkle: Well, you said that was a good question. So it sounds like, you know, I think all of us are curious and we're kind of enjoying things as we're learning, but I guess, did you still kind of end up going more general practitioner or small animal?
Phil Richmond: I did. So I have, so I've always been a, you know, been a general practitioner. I get to be involved in some different things now that I jokingly think. If, you know, me now would go back and talk to fourth year vet school, me and say, you're going to be kind of pretty involved in wellbeing and, you know, psychological health and safety and veterinary practices and this, like I would have rolled my eyes and had some four letter words for this old crusty person.
Phil Richmond: But yet it's the beauty of, you know, where our journey takes us and, and being open to just [00:05:00] riding that and not necessarily holding onto old ideas. Yeah.
Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. Definitely agree with that. The old ideas, because we learned so much as we go forward, we're gaining more knowledge and our thoughts and ideas should evolve.
Megan Sprinkle: That's normal. And I guess since you brought it up, you're talking about, yes, you do a lot with wellbeing and you have a unique story. After this too, but when you were in vet school, how do you remember yourself in that mental health wellbeing stage?
Phil Richmond: Yeah. So, and well, I would say in hindsight, it was challenging for me. So without getting sidetracked of the story, but ever since I was 15, alcohol and substances were really the only thing that I had in my toolbox. To address, you know, the anxiety and the perfectionism and depression and these types of things. And so that was very, you know, very much evident for me in vet school.
Phil Richmond: The interesting thing was, [00:06:00] and this was where the challenge was, is that I still performed well, like I did well in vet school. And so I had this irrational belief that, well, I can't have a problem because the end result is, is that, you know, I'm still getting good grades. Like I'm still doing these things.
Phil Richmond: Even though. There were certainly signs and, you know, and challenges that I was going through, but it was an interesting, you know, interesting time. I mean, I really enjoyed vet school. I enjoy it. I don't know that I would do it again if I had to, but the journey itself, you know, I enjoyed, and I think that's the thing is just understanding that we walk through things that potentially we didn't necessarily need to.
Phil Richmond: And that's where I'm, you know, I'm really grateful that we're, as a profession, you know, we're seeing, you know, some of these 20, you know, being on, you know, 24, you know, 36 hours being awake, you know, I remember at University of Florida, we'd be on, uh, the wards duty, it wasn't necessarily [00:07:00] in the ICU, but just patients that were like in kind of low key hospitalization and you'd have to make a tour of the wards and so I asked, I was like, well, can we sleep?
Phil Richmond: And they're like, no, absolutely not. And I'm like, So I'm going to be up like, you know, 36 hr. And so I remember I, I still did. I brought a pillow and a blanket and set an egg timer for, you know, for 60 minutes and, you know, went to sleep, got up, checked everybody, went back to sleep, got up, checked everybody.
Phil Richmond: But, um, I'm glad to know that that at least to some degree, you know, we're seeing the folly of that, you know, and how that really doesn't set good habits for us or set realistic expectations for us in the workplace.
Megan Sprinkle: Yeah, I think that met is definitely in a big time of change. Everything from the education side of things to yep.
Megan Sprinkle: The life side of veterinary medicine as well. And so we're talking about you get out into practice and probably exciting, but what were your thoughts and what was your journey?
Phil Richmond: [00:08:00] I'll say what was interesting for me is that I thought I had this belief that once I'm this, you know, or once this thing happens, I will change behaviors. You know, is this external thing will change me. And I remember thinking to myself, well, okay, well I'm in school. So I go out, I, you know, I go to parties and I, you know, I do these, these things and I'm like, clearly once, you know, once I'm a veterinarian, you know, that will change again, this external thing will force itself to change me.
Phil Richmond: And I won't, uh, clearly I would never act in that way once I'm a veterinarian. And so, you know, I get into a great practice. I love veterinary medicine so much, like I identify with it so much that I'm coming in on my days off to do surgeries, which I don't know that I would necessarily, as I'm saying that I don't want that to necessarily be a bad thing.
Phil Richmond: The manner in which [00:09:00] I did it wasn't healthy that I then started working at another, the clinic that I grew up at on my days off, I was picking up emergency shifts on the weekends. I was working, you know, 70, 80, you know, hours a week and it just wasn't healthy for me. And so what happened was, what was the tool that I had in the toolbox is drinking, you know, going home, you know, I'd work 12 hours, I'd go home, I drink, you know, I'd fall asleep, get up, go to work again.
Phil Richmond: And I just, I got in this cycle where the things that happen that are normal, you know, in veterinary medicine, they're challenging, but they're normal in veterinary medicine, like, patient dies or, you know, things don't go the way that we wish they would is that I was had so much self-criticism and beat myself up so much.
Phil Richmond: That it just, it really, really crushed me. And it got to the point where I was like, I got home and I'm like, I can't, I remember, [00:10:00] you know, walking into my, my townhouse at the time and I had my backpack on and I just, you know, I vividly remember like I dropped my backpack. I went down, I sat on my couch, I put my head in my hands and I'm like, there's no way I can do this for another 25 years.
Phil Richmond: And that was when I was like, I don't see a way out. And. I got really even more depressed as drinking, using more and just spiraling, you know, spiraling downwards and thank goodness the, you know, the team that I worked with recognized what was going on with me and that led to, you know, me being able to get help.
Phil Richmond: So I actually, uh, went into treatment, you know, for three months, which as a new graduate veterinarian, you know, I'm broke, I'm scared. Full of shame and guilt and really that was the thing that that was big, big change in my life, you know, is that I went in found tools that, that helped me, you know, address the self [00:11:00] criticism, address the thoughts that were in my head, had people that supported me and it really let me.
Phil Richmond: I love veterinary medicine in a way that I hadn't before and love myself. So when I got out of treatment, it really fundamentally changed where I was at. You know, when I was at the lowest point, you know, to warn everybody talking about suicidal ideations, but I had a plan if a, B or C happened, I was going to come home and I had a plan for ending my life.
Phil Richmond: And that has since not been the case for me since I went through treatment and 12 step recovery. So. Got very involved in, you know, in that on kind of the down low, if you will, because of the stigma and the stigmatization of alcohol and substance use disorder, not just in the U S, but, you know, definitely in the medical professions, um, is that we, I'm grateful that we talk about, you know, mental illness, and we're talking about the importance of mental health, but 12 to 15 percent of us are going to meet criteria for a use disorder at some point in our [00:12:00] career.
Phil Richmond: And it's still kind of the, Oh, well, we don't talk about that, you know, or it's a moral failure and people that do that, they're weak willed, they're just not intelligent or, you know, what have you. And I can assure, you know, I can assure everybody that those things are not true. But it's just, that's the one, one of the things that I do hope that we overcome in, in vet med, you know, is knowing so many people who've recovered and then some of the people that have just been so scared to come forward.
Megan Sprinkle: And I do want to go back to when you said going out of vet school, you loved veterinary medicine so much that you felt that 80 hours a week. I think this mindset around. Working hard and working a lot is part of some of the mindset. I think we're getting better. But I also remember when I was in school and people would say, okay, you're going to be poor [00:13:00] and you're going to work a lot.
Megan Sprinkle: And you're like, that was kind of the expectation. And we, I think we attract a lot of achievers. So we want to put forth a lot of effort in what we do. It's, we have a lot of pride in that as well. So you talked about, you didn't want to necessarily make it wrong to go into the hospital on your day off. So now with all your, the hindsight and all the training that you've done, how do we balance very high achieving, we want to work, but how do we do that in a healthy way?
Phil Richmond: So you know, we hear that term work life balance and people smarter than me have, you know, tried to get away from, you know, from that term and it's even life work integration. And what I like to think about is like in this moment, well, can I ask myself, if I go in to do this procedure, I do this, am I doing this for the right reasons?[00:14:00]
Phil Richmond: Does it have to be me? Am I coming in trying to be the white knight and saying that it's got to be, you know, it's got to be me flying in and saving the day. Also, do I have the energy to do it? So what I would say is that I wouldn't say that never I'll speak for myself. It's not that I would never come in on my day off, but I have to ask myself, do I need to, what are my reasons that are doing it?
Phil Richmond: Because sometimes it ends up being very rewarding, you know, going in like and being able to do that. But I have to be conscious of, am I doing that thing to validate who I am or am I doing this thing? That I do have the energy for it. I'm grateful to do it in this moment. And I have the capacity to do it and I'm not taking away from my family or I'm not taking away from, you know, some of these other things, it ends up not being necessarily a, I would say going in on my day off is not, and in speaking for me, it's not a hard line.[00:15:00]
Phil Richmond: I have to ask myself some questions, you know, before that. And so that's what I didn't have the ability to do is that it was before it was always, yes, I'll rush in and do this thing because it feels good to be needed. It added to my self-worth and my motives for going in were not necessarily the healthiest.
Phil Richmond: But the other thing is, is, you know, early on, I, I also wouldn't have gotten the experience, you know, surgical experience that I have. And now I get to mentor, you know, some of our newer grads and things like that. So. It's a, a little messy or not, not straightforward, but I would say is that it's just knowing what questions I need to ask myself before I do that.
Phil Richmond: And, you know, I love the guiding principle of what are my motives here? And so since I've been in recovery, that's one of the, one of the questions I always ask is it doesn't mean I can't do this thing, but I'm going to get gut level honest with myself. What are my motives for, for doing it?
Megan Sprinkle: [00:16:00] Yeah. And I liked the term you talked about with self-worth is understanding where does our self-worth lie. And the part that I am as guilty as anyone on wanting to feel needed and appreciated and all of those things, it's so important and it's hard. It takes practice. I think in very intentional work on realizing what the self-worth, where it really should lie.
Megan Sprinkle: And I think that also helps us in understanding our motives and going back to what are our personal values? How can I feel like I'm being the best person I want to be. It takes work. It takes a, probably a lot of support too, because. It's really important to surround yourself with people who can help you also go the direction you want to go.
Phil Richmond: It's funny. So I'm in this group. It's a veterinarians and recovery group. And so we meet every Sunday. It's sponsored by, not that it's necessarily a pitch for the VIN [00:17:00] foundation, but they're grateful to give us that space. Wonderful group. So if you have any concerns about alcohol or substance use disorder, you know, as a veterinary professional, Reach out.
Phil Richmond: It's a great group, but we were talking about the importance of having a support network. And so that support network was wonderful about recovery. And I would, I would say it's not necessarily specific to recovery, but most strong support networks and recovery are not gonna, you know, we jokingly will say they're not going to cosign your BS.
Phil Richmond: I'm going to try to give those people, if I need support on something, I'm going to try to be as unbiased as I can be. And so with that, then takes that inner work first, you know, of understanding what fears am I bringing into this, what potential ego issues, or is it possible on misinterpreting, you know, something, or, you know, was I stressed?
Phil Richmond: Was I in a certain situation when, when I may have [00:18:00] misinterpreted the facts and, you know, in a case and then bringing that to the support network and, you know, and always having somebody say, okay. Yeah, I hear you. Are you open for some feedback? And it's like, all right, let's, you know, chink, buckle in. And then knowing that that person, they want what's best for me.
Phil Richmond: So what's interesting is like, quite honestly, that's very much the benefit of having, having a good leader relationship or management relationship is that I can take feedback from somebody. As long as I believe genuinely, they're not trying to hurt me. They just genuinely want what's best for me. And so that support network where it's not necessarily somebody that I'm venting to because we do know that venting or just vomiting that stuff is not healthy over time, genuinely having somebody, you know, try to look at all sides, you know, where I'm not, for me, I have to watch out for, am I saying that this is a hundred percent somebody else's issue, you know, or what part do I play in it?
Phil Richmond: [00:19:00] And so that's a big lesson that I learned, you know, in recovery.
Megan Sprinkle: Speaking of finding support, you mentioned in your personal story, it took other people to recognize that there was something off and to kind of encourage you to go into recovery. And so you had mentioned something on another podcast about the importance of knowing how to measure burnout.
Megan Sprinkle: Whether it's in ourselves or in others, so of course, my little scientist of the brain is like, well, how do you measure something like that? So do you mind sharing a little bit on maybe what people saw in you that was kind of warning signs, but then also, especially again, now that you've learned a lot and seen a lot, how, how do we measure burnout again, both in ourselves, as well as if we're potentially concerned about our colleagues?
Phil Richmond: Thanks. And so there, there certainly are a number of tools, you know, assessment tools that we can use. There's, you know, like the Maslach burnout [00:20:00] inventory, the main one. So in caregiving professionals, there's also the pro QOL, the professional quality of life assessment. But where we go with this generally like if we, if we're seeing things that are off, you know, just behavior that isn't normal, you know, are we being aggressive?
Phil Richmond: Are we being more isolated? Are we getting cynical? Let me say this just in a general veterinary environment. What was fascinating for me is the group of clinics that I work at. We've got a great, great team. We've really worked on psychological safety and culture. And that's like, we were very intentional about that from about, you know, 2016 on really, really dug deep into that COVID hit.
Phil Richmond: And so, 2019, we had a team that would stay in our meetings. It was the best compliment or best thing I've ever heard from that. We come here to get away from the world. That is, Oh, You know, to hear that, like we had just created an awesome [00:21:00] environment and just firing on all these cylinders, COVID hits. And so we notice there is now talking about each other.
Phil Richmond: We start noticing gossiping. We start noticing more cynicism about clients and things like that. And what was interesting is again, that was. Off behavior for our team. And so we ended up doing the, at the time and in this particular situation, we did a survey that was, is called the Perma survey for workplaces.
Phil Richmond: And so that does look at, you know, burnout and wellbeing factors. And we found that our team was feeling that stuff. We ended up doing some things from an organizational point of view to take the load off our team. One of the things like, for instance, I remember we ended up getting Pet Desk. We found that was a struggle for them was being on the phone all the time.
Phil Richmond: And so we increased our two way communications. We changed some scheduling things so [00:22:00] that we made sure that they were always getting lunches and, you know, things like that work. We saw the temperature, you know, come down. So the things that we could control we did, but it's really, you know, just, are we seeing things where, you know, our teams are just, they're exhausted performance, maybe starts to be negatively impacted.
Phil Richmond: And that's cynicism, you know, and those are really the core signs of burnout. But if we're seeing those things. Just like our patients, like fix our ears up a little bit and say, huh, you know, it's interesting that I'm starting to see this. Are there some external factors, you know, that are going on in the workplace that we can address?
Phil Richmond: But for me, you know, it was mood swings, things that are really consistent with alcohol and substance use disorder. And they just saw a lot of external signs for me. So that was what brought that up. And then the interesting thing is I just, I would have never come forward with any of that out of fear because, you know, if I broke my leg or I had heart disease or anything like that, I might feel more [00:23:00] comfortable, you know, coming to my employer and say, Hey, I need to take time off for this.
Phil Richmond: But when it comes to that, it was like, I'm not telling anybody about this. And I also didn't necessarily think I had a problem. It's the one disease that tells you. You know, over and over like, that's everything else. It's not you. You're doing okay. You know, but from the outside, everybody can see that, you know, things are going downhill.
Megan Sprinkle: That creates a lot of barriers into trying to get out of it. So everything from the trying to understand that it is a problem to the fear of talking about it because I think as wonderful as we are moving forward and understanding well-being and, and all of those things, I think there's still probably a lot of stigmatism around alcohol and substance abuse, because I mean, I think about it too, every time, every year that I have to re-register with the states to get my [00:24:00] license, there's that box you have to check about the substance abuse.
Megan Sprinkle: And so, I've also heard an episode talking about the legal side of things and how it impacts your license, and I have very little understanding of it, but do you mind talking to that a little bit? Because I'm sure that's part of it. Not only the social part of being embarrassed or not wanting to talk about it, but there's a lot when you're a medical professional.
Phil Richmond: So this is a great, and I'm really excited to talk about something that we were, we were able to do in the state of Florida. Um, in 2019, what you just said, Megan, we all fill out, you know, our licensing application. So in Florida, so when I was filling out my licensing application, I specifically remember, you know, is that it said there were three questions.
Phil Richmond: One was essentially, have you ever been diagnosed with insanity? So it actually said [00:25:00] insanity, you know, this is the new millennium.
Megan Sprinkle: Very old language.
Phil Richmond: Yeah. Very old language. And then, are you addicted to narcotics or intoxicating liquors? And I was just like, you know, and again, it sounded like something from the forties.
Phil Richmond: What do those things tell us? Those questions there tell us that those things are not acceptable and that if any of those things come up, that's going to impact my ability to practice. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. What they found in human medicine. So in 2017, the Mayo clinic did a study and they looked at the licensing questions in each state's licensing application states that had questions around mental health or mental illness.
Phil Richmond: Solely based on the presence of those questions on a licensing application or 40 percent less likely to seek mental health [00:26:00] treatment based on the presence of those questions. Okay. So, in 2017, the AMA and the Federation of State Medical Boards, the FSMB, recommended that states remove questions around mental health on licensing applications because of what it does.
Phil Richmond: Again, the first thing that we need to do, you know, to practice veterinary medicine is to, we need to be licensed. And we see that right off the bat is that this is something we say is unacceptable that you know, you wouldn't be able to get your license. There was a number of us that came together, made a pitch to the, the Florida board of veterinary medicine to have those questions removed.
Phil Richmond: And so we were actually able to not only have those questions removed, but then have supportive language around alcohol and substance use disorder, you know, as well. And so, you know, my hat's off to, you know, everybody that did that. And those are things that, again, like I. One, I would have told, you know, if you asked me if I was addicted, I would be like, no, like I just, I just drink, like I [00:27:00] already, like, I don't have, you know, I don't have a problem, but also who's going to answer yes.
Phil Richmond: To that question, like quite honestly, like, I mean, it's just, you know, you're forced to be in a position where you don't feel like you can be supported. And it's interesting cause I actually saw that come up, you know, somewhere else with New Zealand and Australia, like on LinkedIn or something where it's a similar thing where with certain mental health diagnoses, you have to have your
Phil Richmond: psychiatrists or psychologists like write a letter of support that you're okay, like if I broke my leg or I went through physical therapy and like, I was okay, why do I need to disclose that? So, what I would say too is hats off to the American Association of Veterinary State Boards and Dr. Beth Bennett and my dear friend,
Phil Richmond: Dr. Tim Kolb. They put out a Safe Harbor. Their model practice act really has some good stuff around questions around mental health and how we can [00:28:00] be supportive of that alcohol and substance use disorder. So, but it's up to the states to adopt that wonderful language. Well, and sometimes it helps by just hearing what other states are doing and it can maybe take just one person bringing it up and starting the conversation.
Megan Sprinkle: I'm glad I asked because I think that's helpful. Maybe we can continue to spread that to other states. Coming back to your career, because it sounds like you had this big experience pretty early on in your veterinary career. And so it has become a part of. Even your career. Cause again, you said, if you went back to your senior veterinary student self and said, this is what you're going to be doing, you said you would not believe yourself. So how has it really impacted your career up to this point?
Phil Richmond: Yeah, absolutely. So I, you know, from just a service perspective, I was very active, you know, with working with medical professionals and recovery, kind [00:29:00] of a state and somewhat national level, but it's, it's very fragmented, unfortunately. We don't have as cohesive a network, although we're doing a great job now with Vet Med, but understanding the impact that that had for me to have medical professionals that were in recovery that were very supportive of, you know, of moving forward, you know, people that understood the stigma and also understood like the support we needed and to be there to help move us forward.
Phil Richmond: Knowing how many people there are that are in, you know, long term recovery that are in medicine, they're just not holding up a poster board and going around and being public with it. But probably about 10, maybe 10 years into, into recovery. So I got, I got into recovery in 2008, soon after I graduated. And like nine, nine, 10 years later, I started getting involved, more involved with the Florida VMA.
Phil Richmond: And I was the student rep all through [00:30:00] vet school and just didn't get involved that much, you know, after I graduated and realized there was an organization or there was a committee that helped in the state of Florida, like reach out to veterinarians that needed help. And while I was doing that, I just wanted to get more involved.
Phil Richmond: You know, I talked to my practice manager and I talked to my wife, who's a veterinarian. And I said, look, I'm going to end up being a little bit more public, you know, about my recovery status. Even that's, you know, solid probably, you know, eight or nine years that I've been in recovery and there was still a fear of what might this mean professionally or to people, you know, this practice that I was grateful to, to be at, like, would that have some negative implications and, you know, it just made me reflect to like, here I am solid in a career, like doing well financially and all this, and now I have a fear eight, nine years out.
Phil Richmond: If I'm public, what this would do versus, you know, you can imagine like somebody, you know, new in recovery. So I [00:31:00] ended up getting into the outreach committee for the FVMA. And then as happens, you know, with those of us that really, really want to help. And I know you're, you're in this group. You know, I said to the executive director of the FVMA, I said, Hey, we don't have a wellbeing committee.
Phil Richmond: And it's like, we don't, but I think you're the person to do it. It's like, well, that's all you. So it was like, all right, we're going to do this. We're going to do this. We're going to do this. There's a need here. There's a need here. And then it's just, and so what was funny is, so I have a number of certifications and it's kind of a joke with my wife that, you know, I take certifications
Phil Richmond: like I used to drink. Um, but I, I remember the first presentation that I ever had to give to the executive board and the executive board, the FVMA, the AVMA president was there. The people that were running for president elect for the AVMA were at this meeting. The Dean of the University of Florida was there and I get up and the imposter syndrome hit, you know, and it was like, you know, I'm just a drunk that, you know, went to some [00:32:00] 12 step meetings and, you know, kind of have an idea of how to help people.
Phil Richmond: And then. It's like, I probably should get some letters after my name. And so what's funny is that fear was what drove me more to end up doing this, but it ended up opening up this, this beautiful door where I learned about resilience training. I learned about compassion fatigue. I learned about these things that.
Phil Richmond: It then gave me the evidence-based terms and the evidence behind what really I had learned and saw to be true in 12 step recovery, but it gave me a way to bridge that gap with the science. And I was like, okay, this is the way now that I can match my lived experience, story-tell. And match that with the evidence that's out there and how this works.
Phil Richmond: And that's when I got really excited. So that's what I get to do now. So I still work at that practice a couple of days a week, but I get to do this a lot more where, you know, we, we get to see each [00:33:00] other at conferences and I'm grateful I get to speak and do, do consulting and do these really exciting assessments for teams.
Megan Sprinkle: You mentioned that you went to your boss and your wife, that you're going to be more public about this. Yeah. Yeah. And that was probably nerve wracking and you had some other fears that led you to do some things. How did that end up? Like, were you surprised by people's reactions? What was kind of the result once you went public and everything?
Phil Richmond: Right. This is actually one of the things that I teach about is that these somewhat irrational fears that we have, or we use our senses to bring in and take in our reality versus what our brain imagines to be real. There's an 88 percent crossover with that just meaning if I imagine it, I am going to have the same response as though I am taking that in, in the moment and it's real.
Phil Richmond: So when I have those fears, when I imagine that those things are going to happen, I have the same emotional response as though it's actually [00:34:00] happening and the power behind that and the power behind our thoughts. And again, I think things intuitively we know, but it's really amazing seeing the science behind it.
Phil Richmond: And so what happened is that nothing happened, you know, it was the opposite. People were very supportive and, you know, I've been grateful to be able to bring some awareness, you know, around this. Yeah. Just irrational fears. I did not end up living in my car with all my animals not amounting to anything.
Megan Sprinkle: Yes, Well, thank you for going back in and explaining that because I, I think that's, that's a human thing, not just a veterinary medicine thing of the irrational fear. So I think it's good to reiterate that, Oh, by the way, it didn't happen. It's okay. I'm here. I survived. I mentioned earlier that I think veterinary medicine is in a really ripe time of change and in a good way.
Megan Sprinkle: We're having lots of good conversations. What are you most excited about just in Vet Med in general right now?
Phil Richmond: [00:35:00] Um, I just think the hope, hope for the future, the Merck study came out recently. I think it's beautiful that we start asking the right questions about things where the sky isn't falling. It's really the thing that is important for, for me that I get most excited about is.
Phil Richmond: Not necessarily just looking at the problems and we've got to solve the, you know, the big hairy problems in veterinary medicine, but tapping into the beautiful parts of, you know, veterinary medicine is really leaning into the things that make this career wonderful, you know, in whatever path that is for us.
Phil Richmond: But I do love that we're focusing more on the workplace experience, certainly the mental health aspect is really important, but not just our individual mental health, but the impact that our workplace and what that environment looks like. And how do we craft that? How do we teach our leaders, you know, how to create that and, and as organizations, what policies do [00:36:00] we have, you know, in place and understanding what's always fascinating to me is how.
Phil Richmond: You know, these terms like psychological safety and our level of chronic stress and how those impact the way that we practice veterinary medicine and the way that we connect with our clients, the way that we connect with our team members and just how important that is. So I just love, you know, I love that.
Megan Sprinkle: And I think that is a huge thing. Yes, at a practice level, but even as a profession level, there is an element of culture that we can all be a part of in driving and in a good direction. And I think that's what's really exciting is I can feel that in, in our profession is we are all working towards this.
Megan Sprinkle: Culture that we would like to see in our profession. And it doesn't mean that we're not talking about hard stuff. We do, but it's just in a different way. That's really encouraging.
Phil Richmond: [00:37:00] And we talk about, you know, making sure that we, you know, we're celebrating the wins and our friend Andy Rourke talks about holding the trophy and just those things is that when we, if we take an honest assessment through the day.
Phil Richmond: If we just have a tally sheet of keep track of all the good things that happened and then keep track of the bad things is a factor of like 10:1, you know, good things are going to happen during the day. And what we just, because of the nature of who we are as human beings. You know, the good stuff slides off of us like Teflon and the, the bad stuff sticks to us like Velcro and that's just our negativity bias.
Phil Richmond: But when we're more aware of that, when we, when we're intentional about, and it's not toxic positivity, but it's honoring the good stuff that happens just as much as giving it the focus, you know, that it deserves if 90 percent of the time, good things are happening, give that space to happen and then looking, you know, [00:38:00] looking each day and saying, Hey, what.
Phil Richmond: What went well today? Not saying that every day is a bowl of cherries and there are going to be the nature of veterinary medicine is there's going to be challenging things. But there are way more good things that, you know, that happen in the profession on a day-to-day basis than things that are challenging. And how do we walk through those together?
Megan Sprinkle: I like that a lot. And I know I brought this up in our previous call, but your “believe” sign, that Ted Lasso mindset of, you know, it is a, it's a team. He always comes at it with a fun and positive spin, right? The challenges that they. But we went through, and I know that sign is very meaningful for you. Do you mind sharing the story behind it?
Phil Richmond: Yes. So, I was very grateful to, to serve as chief medical and wellbeing officer for, for a group in Michigan. And when I left, when I came back to Florida, team had bought that sign and they all said, so the back of that sign has, [00:39:00] Um, that, that sign has some very beautiful messages from some amazing people in veterinary medicine on it.
Phil Richmond: And so when I look at it, I remember the back of the sign. That's the kind of the beautiful things in the background that maybe not everybody is seeing. And I would say too, is that that's part of the beauty of still being alive and on this earth. Is that I get to meet even more people in veterinary medicine and just of the world.
Phil Richmond: But, you know, because of what we do, most of the people that I connect with are in veterinary medicine and just really getting to hear the stories, you know, behind what they do and who they are as human beings. And it's just, it becomes a richer experience, you know, as, as we go on. So, yeah.
Megan Sprinkle: Exactly. I get the same thing doing Vet Life Reimagined, so it's very, very encouraging. Now, before I ask a few final questions that are fun to learn more about you, is there anything else that's on your mind that you would like to share with the veterinary profession?
Phil Richmond: [00:40:00] That's a great, great question. One is, this really is a beautiful profession. I genuinely do love this profession. And I also remember where I was in 2008 and what ended up happening is from, and I'll speak for me, is that it wasn't the profession that was heavy on me.
Phil Richmond: It was the, you know, the things inside. And then when I did find some ways to be able to find answers to those, I began to enjoy life more. And then I love veterinary medicine in a way that I didn't have the capacity to before. I just think the world of, uh, people in this profession.
Megan Sprinkle: I agree. So, all right. So fun questions to end. Do you, you have a skill or an interest that maybe not a lot of people know about?
Phil Richmond: Yeah, let's see, I guess maybe a couple of things. So I grew up working on cars with my dad, so. Just a fun thing. And I've got all my dad's tools, so [00:41:00] you know, like whenever I do that, it's just kind of a way to kind of reconnect with him.
Phil Richmond: And I used to be a competitive powerlifter. Oh. So back in the day, I'm a recovering meathead as well, so I can't do the things that I used to do as much in the, in the gym anymore, but still enjoy that.
Megan Sprinkle: That's good. Exercise is also good for Yes. Mental and physical health.
Phil Richmond: Indeed. Indeed. And I'll say when it's not there. That was something during Covid that. I really noticed how much that impacted me, like not when I had the schedule of, you know, we get our appointments done like 12:30, there was a gym right around the corner, you know, from the hospital. And I go there, I'd work out for 45 minutes and it was like getting to start the day over again coming back in and really made a big difference.
Megan Sprinkle: Now, do you have anything on your bucket list that you would like to do?
Phil Richmond: Yes, so I want to go to Australia with the family. Travel is definitely on the list. And it's been wonderful being able to Just [00:42:00] honestly, just being able to see my kids like do they're doing karate. And, you know, my daughter was the, was the national bronze medalist for her age group.
Phil Richmond: So it was just, it's, it's really exciting getting to see them doing the hard work to practice, practice, practice, and not always win, but then. When they do get to, you know, win medals and things. It's, you know, it's great.
Megan Sprinkle: That is cool. Well, that may roll into my final question, but what is something that you are most grateful for?
Phil Richmond: I don't want this to sound corny. I'm, I'm grateful for the knowledge and the reflection on being, how impactful being grateful is. I know that sounds kind of silly, but just being able to like sit in this moment and get into this almost free association, gratitude, like think about how we met And that, you know, being both of us being at that conference and, you know, and, and the people that were involved in that, and that all of that rolls back to how other people, the grace of other people and [00:43:00] the universe and such, like allowed me to, you know, to be sitting here talking to you today and all the things that had to come together.
Phil Richmond: And. You know, my, my wife walked through that with me. Um, we were engaged back at the time and my mom, you know, the support that I had and just reflecting on how interconnected we all are. I just think that's really something that the human condition like is challenging as it is sometimes, but just thinking about how grateful I am for all the people that have played a part in, in where I am today.
Megan Sprinkle: I agree that interconnectivity is what makes life. I think all the, the more fun and.
Phil Richmond: Yeah. And birds and, and I'm grateful that recently we, uh, we didn't have any birds in our house in January of 2022. And now we, we have a lot. So I swore that I did not like birds. And if you would have asked me up until January, 2022, I'm like, nope, don't like, you [00:44:00] know, it's okay.
Phil Richmond: I mean, I'm okay with people. And we have, I mean, we've got all these birds now and I just, I love them. My wife and I just spend ridiculous amounts of time with these birds and. They're just, that's been a new thing that I am grateful for that. Like the, the idea. No, it was my, our daughter's idea.
Phil Richmond: But, uh, that, that's a whole nother story. But I mean, it's just a beautiful thing that we both pretty much caved at the same time. 'cause that was the one species or genus or what have you, that we weren't, we weren't gonna have in the house. Like we have dogs, cats, turtles, snakes, you know, fish, all that.
Phil Richmond: But we're like, Nope, absolutely not. We're not having birds. And now, now we have tons of birds. They're amazing.
Megan Sprinkle: Now, maybe I missed it. You said it might come up, so I'm going to go back real quick because you said something about an interest in cardiology and you seem to apply that. There is a story there.
Phil Richmond: So there, there is, if we have, so, so this is, and I promise this will have [00:45:00] a happy ending, but so when I was eight years old, I'm in bed and I hear all this commotion, that's maybe like six, six o'clock, five o'clock in the morning and my neighbor. Walks into my bedroom and gets me out of bed and he walks me past my dad is laying on the living room floor and the paramedics are hitting with the defib and you know, my mom's there screaming.
Phil Richmond: So my dad had a massive heart attack. So at eight years old, I was basically, I mean, for almost two weeks, like we almost lived in the cardiac ICU waiting room. So, you know, we had, you know, like I had like a bed set up and pillows and stuff like that. So I'm going with this is at eight. Like I just, I knew, you know, I was scared for my dad, but I had this really.
Phil Richmond: I don't know if it was like I was trying to control the situation, but I just I tried to learn as much as I could about cardiology [00:46:00] and I actually had a chance to talk about this recently, but my dad's cardiologist gave me his key to the medical library and the hospital and so I at eight years old. I go down and I remember it was like Hearst or something like the heart.
Phil Richmond: It's like these two big volumes. And I pull this book down. I go in the index and I look up heart transplants and I'm like reading as much as I could at eight years old, but I'm reading everything. And I go to my dad's cardiologist and I said, Dr. Story, I said, I think I can do a heart transplant. But I said, I think I'm going to need the book and he just laughed and he said, it's okay.
Phil Richmond: He goes, we all need the book sometimes. And where I'm going with that though, is that I think about that and I just recently really reflected on that. How impactful that was that that cardiologist gave a kid, an eight year old kid, you know, the key to the medical library [00:47:00] was nothing but a support and just an amazing human being.
Phil Richmond: And he just, unfortunately just recently passed away. And he gave me a stethoscope too, by the way, when I graduated from undergrad and I got into vet school, he sent me my first stethoscope. And so I always had a huge interest in cardiology because of what my, you know, my dad had gone through. My dad made it through that, but he broke the record for like being in the cardiac ICU for like 30 days on this ventricular assistance pump and thing that, you know, this is back in 83, I'm a little aged.
Phil Richmond: That was where like my love of human medicine and cardiology came. And so I think I just had much deeper knowledge for, you know, for that reason, I just knew a lot more about the heart than probably most eight year olds. So, I've just always,
Megan Sprinkle: definitely eight year olds.
Phil Richmond: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that was where the interest in [00:48:00] cardiology came from.
Phil Richmond: So it was just, it was really cool. I'd send emails to the doctor story when I was, you know, on my cardiology rotations and telling them what I was doing and things like that. And it was just, we'd always kept that relationship all those years later.
Megan Sprinkle: I mean, I know you had the connection through your dad. And also the way the doctor reacted to it. It is so beautiful and shows how impactful medical professionals can be by doing, it seems little, giving the eight-year-old the key to the library and just letting them go explore. I think similarly in veterinary medicine, I've seen that too, where a doctor takes the time to listen to a child or gives them the key to their curiosity and lets them know that they can do it. And you stayed in touch with that doctor, it speaks volumes to the ways that we can give [00:49:00] back and it doesn't take necessarily a lot of effort, but those relationships are what we remember and can help us become these wonderful human beings.
Phil Richmond: And I'll say, because of what Dr. Story did every time, or as much as I can do when there's a younger kid in the room, is that every time I auscultate or I'm listening to the heart, I'll say, come here.
Phil Richmond: And then I'll, you know, take my stethoscope off and, you know, and let it, I'm like, can you hear it? And just seeing their, you know, their eyes get really big and they're like, and then, uh, you know, and then oftentimes, like if they do that, then we'll go get them exam gloves and, you know, a cap and mask and go, okay, well, you're, you're a doctor now.
Phil Richmond: So. You got to have the doctor close. And so I just, just love being able to do that. Cause it's just, again, knowing how, like you said, just how impactful versus if he would have been dismissive, you know, with what I was going through in that moment, it may very well have fundamentally changed what direction I was going to [00:50:00] go in.
Phil Richmond: Like that may have stuck with me. I can't do that. Like, I'm just a, you know, poor kid from, Castleberry, Florida, but he believed in me.
Megan Sprinkle: So that's all folks. Well, almost. I want to thank our sponsors who are supporting my hosting platform, Buzzsprout. So thank you to Will Hughes and everyone. Fire Consulting for as little as three dollars a month.
Megan Sprinkle: You can too. Support the show links are in the description We are looking for more partners to help support the show. We've got some fun campaigns coming up So if you're interested, please let me know. Email me at hello at VetLifeReimagined.com I'm also looking for speaking opportunities and greatly appreciate any insight there So, please share these amazing messages and I'll see you next week.
