Badr
0:00
Hey everybody, welcome back to the JPU show, the podcast, chock full of practical and helpful advice for podcasters of all skill levels. Now, I won't pretend like uh this is not the first episode in like literally a year. I know it's been a minute, but to quote the legendary Rakim, it's been a long time, and I should have left you without a strong pod to step to, but we're back today. Your press play, and that's what's important right now, right? Let's not talk about the hiatus and how long it's been. We're here now. We're in the present, okay? This show is brought to you by the Jax Podcasters United Group, the home for podcasters and audio creators in Northeast Florida. I'm your host as well as a co-founder of the JPU. My name is Bodder Milligan, and today I'm joined by some friends and fellow podcasters to talk about a new podcast documentary film called Age of Audio. I don't think I can express you how excited I am to say those words. Podcast documentary film, a film about this medium that I have devoted so many years of my life to. It's exciting, all right? This documentary has been described by critics as the definitive history of audio podcasting. The movie explorers podcasting's wild rise from basement mics to billion-dollar deals. It includes some very candid and intimate conversations with industry pioneers like Mark Marin is in this documentary. Ira Glass, Julie Snyder, Ronald Young Jr., Kevin Smith is in the film. I mean, anyone who is anyone in podcasting is in this film. Now, the film isn't available worldwide just yet. There is a trailer that you can watch on YouTube. And I believe if you go to ageofaudio.com, you can actually sign up to get uh access to, oh, I'm sorry, it's AoAMovie.com. I'm having a link to all of this in the show notes, so don't worry about URLs. But you can sign up to get like a link to watch the first 10 minutes. I say all that to say this. It's not available worldwide just yet, but if you're in the Jacksonville or Northeast Florida area on Wednesday, June 3rd, you will have the opportunity to see this documentary for free on a big screen at WJCT Studios. All right. That's right. JPU is back. We got our first event, and it's a free screening of this film. We're not only uh showing the film for free, but we're also hosting a special QA panel with the director himself, Sean Michael Cologne. Uh, he'll be in attendance here in Jacksonville for that screening. Uh, we're doing a QA panel with him alongside some local podcasters. They're going to be talking about the making of the film and what it's like being a creator in this age of audio. So, you know, that's big shout-outs and thanks to our partners at WJCT Public Media and amazing sponsors like Buzzsprout and Podmatch. They helped us put this together and, you know, helping us get the community back. So if you're a podcaster yourself, or maybe you're a documentary nut, or maybe uh you may hell, if you've ever wondered how podcasting came to be, this is the event for you. Once again, come join us Wednesday, June 3rd at 6 p.m. It's a free event, but you have to RSVP. There will be a link in this episode show notes to get tickets. Get them while you can, all right? I have a feeling this will be a sold-out event. I mean, uh something like this is unique to the space, all right. So check it out. Now, that brings me to this episode. I had the opportunity to watch the film in its entirety a little early, and so did my two guests. So we're gonna do a spoiler-free review of the film and mainly talk about the film's larger themes, all right? Like what we got out of it as podcasters, as creators ourselves, uh, you know, what we learned about the history of the medium, and what indie podcasters, what you what you as a podcaster, as a fellow creator can get out of it. So with that being said, let's bring on our guests of honor today, all right? Today I'm joined by two people I can confidently call colleagues, friends, and inspirations for what we do here at the JPU. First up, we got uh first up is Mr. Al Pete. He's a podcaster, founder of the MPN Podcast Network, as well as a rapper, a professor, a DJ, a consummate professional. Al, what's up? Welcome to the show, brother. What's happening, y'all? How y'all feeling? Thanks for having me on the show, man. Hell yeah. Gotta make it happen, man. It's good to have you back. And last, and certainly last, the next guy. This will never end. Yeah, no, the jokes is gonna fly today.
Ryan
4:26
Let me get my games ready.
Badr
4:27
I'm gonna just do this instead of today and just next up, also joining us is the founder and president of the award-winning nonprofit organization GAM Game Arts and Music. Uh, he's also organizing the upcoming Creatorverse conference taking place here in Jacksonville on June 13th and the 14th. It's gonna be a two-day experience designed specifically for the modern creator. Ladies and gents, let's boo Ryan Paul Thompson.
Ryan
4:54
Where's the booze sound effect?
Badr
4:56
Uh if I had more time today and I was responsible, I would have loaded a hell of a booze. But uh I gotta give my respect to Mr.
Ryan
5:03
Al Pete as well, because I am definitely responsible for the guy amidst greatness. Dude, such a prolific.
Badr
5:11
Yeah, that's well said. That's what you know what, man. I I not to brag, but I do feel like the panel I'm I'm among right now is appropriate for this conversation. Like I said in the intro, Age of Audio is a unique, I think it's a special film. I think obviously a lot of bias here as someone who's devoted the last 14 years of his life to podcasting and uh and a huge champion of audio podcasting. I was blown away by the quality of this film. I don't quite know what I thought I was getting into when I started the film, but by the end of it, I can confidently say I I damn near got teary-eyed by the end.
Ryan
5:48
I was like, this is this is for me. This is for us. We all felt like it. Like you're like, yeah, but I remember being there. I still am there.
Badr
5:56
Yeah, yeah. And um uh obviously, you know, uh my co-host, my my fellow co-founder of the JPU, my wife, the amazing big brain Blythe Brumleaf, uh, you know, we watched it together. Uh, she couldn't join us for this here podcast today, but we watched the film together, and uh we both looked at each other like, yeah, like, yeah, this film is that. So I want to start off by asking, uh, how did you guys feel uh by the end of the film? Like what any any thoughts, any feelings that you want to share? Al, I'll start with you.
Al Pete
6:26
What did I feel excuse me at the end of the movie? Um optimistic, hopeful. Um but I I would say that's from like a smaller scale, um, because podcasting is such a uh you know a lonely sport. So it was definitely a reflection to see that people were going through like the same kind of issues or same type of thoughts that one would have in this space or whatever. And um, because you know, I'm people that feel like they're alone in the in this uh industry, um, you have all these questions and doubts and concerns and positivity. You got all these things. So, but do you you're still thinking that it's just me thinking this? So to see somebody else kind of be in that same boat of you might not have been all of the questions and thoughts and the emotions that they were going on, you still felt connected to like the main character of the story. So um the story or the the the person that uh that the story was drawn upon and just having all those resources to kind of back um to support the emotions and thoughts or whatever, I was like, all right, I feel uh I feel vindicated, right? Yeah, yeah. I feel like okay, I'm good to go. I can go back at it again for sure.
Badr
7:49
Yeah. And to to Al uh Al Al, I'm glad you brought it up. I do want to mention too that the documentary, aside from having you know, interviews and conversations with some of the folks I mentioned in the intro, that the the film does follow uh one particular uh uh person's journey, and that is the journey of indie podcaster and producer Ronald Young Jr., which uh it feels weird calling him an indie podcaster because when you watch the film, you see that you know he had uh you know he won a ton of awards for his podcast, uh wait for it. Um so yeah, it was cool to see the the uh the podcasting through the lens of a indie of someone indie podcasting first.
Ryan
8:27
People didn't know that no, I'm kidding. That's why I say the name.
Badr
8:33
Man, it's I don't know. It's weird to call like these spoilers for a documentary. But look, Ronald Young Jr. The film follows him. I won't say any more um getting chastised for it. Uh Ryan, I I want to go to you, man. Was there let me ask you this? What was the most so was there anything surprising? Without giving away any more spoilers that I guess I have, what was the most surprising thing that you learned about the history of of podcasting while watching The Doc?
Ryan
8:57
Like the part when the dinosaurs showed up, like that was amazing. Like, I can't believe that happened. Like everyone needs to watch until like an hour or 10 minute mark. No, no, uh, what was the question again? I'm stupid. Now I forgot what you said. I guess what was your your general impression of the film? Well that we're all always gonna be broke. Like that's pretty much Ryan. That's way too that's that's a depressing truth. We didn't need to be able to do that.
Badr
9:22
That should have been a spoiler warning, right now. Sorry, my bad. No, so I will I'm kidding, I'm kidding.
Ryan
9:29
I will echo a lot of what Al said. Like, there's something validating in knowing that you're not alone. And I from seeing this, and it's funny, like watching it, I remember a lot of the events that happened throughout the course of the documentary. I'm like, oh yeah, I remember when this announcement happened, I remember when this and this was happening. But it's very it's cool to see new forms of technology still being considered as art. Because I think when you're seeing the the plight and the struggle of somebody trying to create a podcast and to real essentially be a storyteller on a new form, a new medium, but it's still the same tale for every artist on every medium. Like it is a struggle. You do have bouts of loneliness, you do have bouts of trying to find you don't really do it with the initial motivation of trying to make money. And then you get to like a crossroads like, God, I really love this, and I'm impacting people. Can I keep doing this and sustain what I'm doing? Like, we I think we all kind of get to that crossroads. Like, those are the thoughts that really kind of echoed to me watching it, especially again, without doing spoilers. You're like, yeah, uh, I remember these moments, I remember feeling like this. Still go through that to this day.
Badr
10:55
Uh I'm glad that you brought up uh the technology technology because that was a note that I had is that I've been podcasting since 2012. And to me, you know, when I look back, I'm like, wow, I was, you know, I I had to code my own like XML file. I had to do a lot, you know, a lot of manual stuff to upload a podcast. And then you watch this doc, and you know, they're going from the beginning, like the origin of the first audio file uploaded to an RSS feed in 2001. And then, you know, Adam Curry dropping his first podcast, what was it called? Uh uh the daily source code in 2004. So, you know, for me, it's like, wow, there is what is that, eight years of history in this medium that I thought I knew so much about that was uh like brand new to me, you know. Like um, and then also I wrote a note here that you know, this is a film focused on audio podcasting. So the voice is the most important thing, the production value, the audio quality. So, you know, these faces, these voices that I've heard, like I've been listening to Americ This American Life for years. You know, I know what Kevin Smith looks like, so that's that's a uh a different thing. But like to have Ira Glass on camera, you know, talking about his experience, I thought was remarkable. Because I don't know how often he's done interviews about that. Maybe I just have never seeked them out like that and they're out there. But to see like Ira Glass on film, um, Adam Curry on the screen, you know, even behind the scenes folks like uh uh uh Dave Weiner, the co-creator of the RSS, uh Julie Schneider, who I think is a producer on This American Life, um, I did enjoy that these pillars and these icons within the medium were a you know, had a chance to be on the spot, like to have their face forward and tell their story. I don't know how often they've told, you know, their their story of like this early young medium and like it to like hear them talk about its growth, I thought was like really remarkable. Um, I guess uh Al, was there anything like like just brand new to you that like you had no idea about? Like, was there anything like surprising that you learned about the history of podcasting that was like maybe revolutionary or or new to you?
Al Pete
13:10
The history of podcasting? Um maybe it was just a little bit. I I feel like I knew the the ground levels of what they were uh speaking on, but uh, I guess just the players of who did it um was the ones that was uh that I got learned uh learned on. I just when I knew the history of it, I knew about the conception of it, um, how it was done, stuff like that. But as far as like the actual players, it was cool to see like the actual players and the people that was behind uh American Life and Um Radio, what is it, Radio Topia? Yeah, like uh how it even happened, like even the fact of like how podcasting spawned from like the radio part, like I knew all of that stuff, but like the players of it, I was getting straight game on. Like I was like, okay, this person did this, and I might have heard a name or two in my readings and my research and studies, but to put these people, uh put the names with the faces, um, you know, it it always brings an enriching type of feeling.
Badr
14:18
Well said, Damn. Yeah, absolutely. I think too, another aspect of the film that I I think really resonated with me is just the emphasis about the democratic nature of podcasting and just RSS in general, right? Like, um, as well and like its close relationship with technology. You know, Ryan had mentioned uh technology earlier, but you know, I've always associated with podcasting, I don't know, you know, with Apple products. So to learn that like the RSS technology was in podcasting was well even before Apple decided to launch the uh, you know, the podcast, you know, just kind of, I don't know, as a tech head and uh you know a lifelong podcaster, it just kind of further solidified why I appreciate the the democratic nature of podcasting and how it is such a powerful medium for people to like get their voice out. I think Al, you know, you mentioned uh uh radio and TV. So whenever the the doc talked about how television, you know, um how that you know uh replaced radio. Where was I going with that? I don't know where I was going with that. I was on a I was on a tire, I was getting passionate.
Ryan
15:27
Technology, you know, like your art was coming out. So I we don't it'll get back to me.
Badr
15:32
Ryan, I want to ask you which uh voice or story in the film resonated most with you uh as in terms of your journey as a creator, as an organizer of creators and events? Was there anyone in particular?
Ryan
15:45
It's uh I don't want to if I go down this path, I know I'm gonna spoil stuff. Just do it. You know what? I mean, I I feel like let me say it like this what really resonated with me is how I really look at podcasting as very much like punk and indie, kind of like the zine community uh when it comes to I guess digital storytelling. And seeing the transition, I remember the transition period from when when Rogan and Jim Litt and all that stuff was starting to happen, and when kind of old money was starting to recognize the potential for podcasting and starting to experiment with it without fully knowing that that's always the the historical pattern. As a new technology or platform arises, big heavy money gets kind of thrown into it without really knowing what it is, and you kind of hope that the players that stand tall at the end of it are the ones that have the best of intentions for the rest of the community. And seeing some of that and those concerns, like you see some of the the bigger players, like they knew what's happening, like uh to an extent as it happens, and they're like, oh man, how is this gonna change what we're doing? Like it, and they're doing with the best of intentions, like you hear them talk about like their concern is getting the the creators, the actual podcasters, paid for the work and the effort and the art that they're creating, but it's like at what cost? And I think that's something that echoes within all of us. Like we've all been through that stage, like, okay, this is the crossroads. I can hopefully get the team of people that have have been walking with me to help me create this thing. I can break them off a little bit of bread, but like what is this gonna cost me? You know, that part kind of struck a chord with me.
Badr
17:49
Hold up, I didn't name any names, even though you asked, but sorry, you guys froze up on my end just for uh just for a little bit. Sorry about that. Um Ryan, that sounded really good. I'm sorry, y'all froze up on my end just a little bit. Ryan, I think I think uh you actually can finish the thought I was trying to get across, which is the idea of like, you know, getting to watch the growth from this, like very and I love how they emphasize like how much of a hobby it, you know, how podcasting is always like it was born out of like the this passion to get your you know your thoughts out to engage uh you know, it's it was like you said, like it's it was like this this punk vibe to it where like the these people that normally wouldn't be picked up by traditional radio or broadcast have now have this ability to reach their target audience, whether that target audience has got spending power or is a popular group or is a niche group, whatever it may be, it's like hey, that doesn't matter. If you've got a voice, what did they say? Uh uh, you know, with the invention of the RSS, it's like if you got a microphone and you can set up an RSS feed, you know, you can get your voice out there.
Ryan
18:58
You hear them talking about the FCC, like that was something like to be able to be able to break those restraints. Being able to now have a platform where you don't have this other governing body deciding what you can and can't say. Like that's tremendous for an artist.
Badr
19:13
Yeah. Now the film, uh I guess on that topic, you know, the film touches on a lot about the the growth of podcasting from this, you know, this independent beginnings to becoming a massive industry like during 2020 and so forth, and then kind of cooling off, right? Leaving a lot of uh podcast companies, production companies kind of like wondering, where do we go now, right? Like, do we make the pivot to video? Do we stay true to audio? Do we continue to try to, you know, uh uh uh bring you know seek out sponsors, etc.? And I was just curious, as creators ourselves, uh how do you balance keeping like that indie spirit alive while the industry has become more professional? While there's more, you know, bigger players around us, like I I guess what comes to mind?
Ryan
20:01
I want to give Grace.
Badr
20:03
I'm I'm constantly just doing this because it's what is there, I guess is there a middle ground there? Uh Al, in your experience, yeah. Al, in your experience, how how have you kind of kept um the that indie spirit alive while also like building and growing, you know, like the NPN network and you know all the podcasts that you manage?
Al Pete
20:28
I'm kind of stuck on that because I I don't I don't know. And maybe because I'm in it, that's the reason why it's kind of hard for me to uh illustrate what how that looks. But I do think about situations that I've like that I've currently been in when it comes to like um having like the right team around you. So like for me, one of my pain points with MPN is me doing the development part, like going out and having, you know, making the relationships and building the relationships and connecting with people who I think would align with the pillars of NPN, LP, stuff like that. But I'm so in production mode to where I don't really have the time to do that. So um, so usually when you're in like production mode, at some point you're thinking about from the indie side of things, I'm thinking about I'm always gonna think about the consumers, the people that consume my content. And so I'm I'm more focused on them most of the time than thinking like, all right, let me try to shoot for Sony or or Ecamm or something like that. And then you get in some of the situations where you'd have been down that road 50 million times, and then you're like, all right, especially when you deal with somebody that gives you like some form of restrictions or tell you you can't do this, then the third, and you like, man, I just be better off doing this by myself. So um, I know for me, I always I'm always gonna have that in the spirit from my side as well as how I provide to the consumers. So middle ground wise. So, I mean, I think that's where like the morals and stuff come in. And I know for me, I'll I'll I'll DJ a bunch of gigs, put money to the side, and be able to do what I initially want to do. But I still keep the morals as if I'm walking around like a top company. You know what I'm saying? So I just talking on it now, that sounds like that would be like the middle ground. But while I'm in it, I don't be knowing, honestly. I always still feel like there's some room that I can adjust or pay attention to. But you know, when it's time to grind, it's time to grind. So, you know, boots on the ground, head down, yeah, focus or whatever. But I make sure that I keep my morals in place and uh and principles and stuff like that when it comes to the stakeholders and shareholders.
Badr
22:47
Yeah, no, that's well said. I think uh, Ryan, you made a joke about this this uh after watching the film, you were a little depressed. Um, but I'm always depressed though. So like I think I took it in a different light, right? Because with the film being such a focus.
Ryan
23:03
You don't know better yet. You don't know what the world's like.
Badr
23:06
Tell it to the grays in my beard when it grows up, right? Yeah. Thank you though. But I think with the film having such a uh focus on audio podcasting, uh I think it's fair to say audio podcasting, it's big heyday, it's big glory days are uh I think it's safe to say uh behind. You know what I'm saying? It's like video is now kind of like the automatic thing that people think about when they think of uh video, you know, podcasting. I know personally, if I mention I have a podcast, it's like, oh, where are you at on YouTube? What's your YouTube channel? I think audio only podcasting is back. It's almost like cyclical. It's back to being a for the hobbyist, for the passionate. I think, I think the fly by night money, the uh the fake money is what I wrote here on my notes. I think the fake money is out. And now the passion is the only thing that really remains. Not to say that you can't, you know, make it as a as an audio podcaster that you can't like build a business and et cetera. But I think it it really is about the passion. If you're not passionate about your subject matter, about your show, if you're not willing to uh what did Ronald say in this? Are you willing to continue to do to do the best thing that you can do week in, week out? And you know, whether you get a hundred downloads or a million downloads, I think it really comes back to like the passion of the medium, of the medium of audio and voice. Ryan, it sounds like you're by the chime in.
Ryan
24:31
Yeah, so a few things. I guess as you the more you go through this, you start seeing the cycles, right? I think y'all mentioned that earlier. And so it's almost like you gotta know how to surf. And you gotta know, like, okay, now the big waves are coming and you gotta know when to ride them. So like even now, technology is starting to there's like an upsurge now of going back to analog, right? Is it the vast majority of users? Not at all. But is it enough to where people can, like you're referring to, like capitalize and actually then go forward? Like the time is coming where, hey, doing a really authentic low-fi podcast will be very prominent to like a younger audience and for a nostalgia factor as well. Won't overtake the other side. But can you then put together a product that is simply towards that community? And I think during that phase, you're gonna find some of that fake money will jump in again because they're gonna be like, oh, we're authentic now because we're doing it with the lo-fire part like that. That's all it's always gonna come and go like that. But also to the indie part, I think the people on this panel are very much, and I love that you brought up the morality, because I think the morality and the ethics, the integrity is important to everybody here. Yeah, and I hate saying this, but I think we have to acknowledge and make space for maintaining and being indie is not everybody's goal. You know, some people want to do it with the idea to make money, and we know how that's gonna go, but also some people are the cold-blooded ones that will go in with a strategic business plan of like, here's how I'll make money off of the other creators. So, like, it's it's weird. Like, there's the indie component that I think most of us live in, and then there's like the cold-hearted business component that we know we cross paths with every now and then. We've all met that guy that's like, hey, we're gonna get you all together, I'll do this, this, this, and I'm gonna strike this deal. And you're like, bruh, I just want to make some cool shit. I don't I don't want to hear all this other noise. And I think you have to have a certain level of audacity to stay being indie. And I think half go ahead, sorry, Bonner. No, no, no.
Badr
26:44
I I I love the train of thought you're going. Uh one thing about the film that I found interesting about you know the main character's journey is that he he kind of hits the ceiling of like what what he's able to accomplish in this space. You know, he's winning a bunch of awards. I'm uh he gets signed on with a a network, he gets to maintain control of you know his sponsorships, and he's like, he's doing all the right things, the hustle, the attention to detail, quality audio editing, like store, you know, like amazing work. And yeah, at first, you know, it it definitely challenging to see that and being like, wow, if this guy has put in all this work and hit that and feels like he hit this plateau, what can I do? But I thought by the end of it, in a weird way, I was even more inspired by his dedication to, you know what, at the end of the day, I'm doing I'm putting the best thing I can possibly put out there. And there is a sense of pride that comes of that that is greater than the money, than the accolades. You know, like yes, I'm still striving for that and working towards it. Like, like how great would it be, especially with like uh, you know, I I'm talking a podcast this year. It would be amazing if we could all get paid based on our dedication and commitment to our shows. You know what I'm saying? Like, if I was able to get paid based on me being consistent for putting out a podcast and the best podcast I could possibly do for the last 14 years, that would be amazing, but that's not the reality. So it's like, am I doing this because I love it or am I doing this for other you know goals? And I think at the end of the day, it really is up to you. Like we always say at our events when we meet new podcasters, it's like your definition of success will vary. And I think it's very important in the beginning to define what does success look like to you and ask yourself, what does success look like to you if it's not money? You know what I'm saying? Are you still willing to do that? Right.
Al Pete
28:35
That was one that was one of the things that I love that they uh spoke on in a documentary, the whole the how they broke down the the business of it, like how that came about. And I and that's only because so I have a group of friends, uh, shouts out to the Uma Creative Group, in my pod family. Um, but I always talk about the capitalist aspect of things, and I'm like, I could just sense when people get into this game and just want to make money. And at first it usually just irritates me like crazy, but then it was like, look, that's how that's what people want to do, that's fine. But I know for me, there is a form of integrity there. Now, um in the you know, in the the documentary, I uh Mr. Young, I didn't I didn't get that feel of him. I feel like he had reached a point where he rightfully was like, you know, I want to get paid off this. And I feel like when he mentioned that part, I was like, I understand completely, you know what I'm saying? But um, but but there was a form of like dedication to work, and you could tell that he was extremely passionate about it or whatever. And I feel like there's there's a healthy balance with that. And I I at days I'm like, okay, it is okay to be like, hey, I I I'm worth this, I'm worth that, um, and still be passionate about it versus the the cold-hearted capitalist people that uh that exist in it.
Badr
29:56
And um lucky, this is a PG show rhyme. I haven't starting the word at each other. That was funny. That was good. No, Al, that that is a yo, I I a hundred percent uh agree with you there. Like someone like Ronald who who is passionate, it's it's okay to be like, hey, I am I I am worth this. I am putting this much effort. It is okay to be like, I would like to make something back. You know, I'm putting all my heart and soul into it. It's not it's not crazy to want to make money off of this thing that you know you're passionate about, that you do well. I think what the film also does a good job in reminding us is that you know, sometimes you got to curb your expectations, you know, like maybe it maybe the ceiling right now is here for you there. Are you willing to like uh are you willing to accept that? Um I I think it's definitely a like a delicate dance. Ryan, did you have something to add?
Ryan
30:52
Nothing serious. I was just trying to think of something else inappropriate to say. No, like I it was very sobering. And it is inspiring too. Like, especially seeing, again, hashtag spoiler, seeing the accolades and the achievements, the critical acclaim. And I think everybody, again, everybody here I think has experienced it. And I try to tell people this so often. It's like, oh, like you're getting this award, or this person's recognizing you. It's like one, you always gotta be aware of why the people are recognizing you and what they're gonna get out of it. And then two, the award will not change your life nine times out of ten. Like the next day, like, oh, you went on the news the next day, nobody's gonna care. Your mom saw you and she's happy and she's proud, but a sponsor ain't gonna knock on your door because you got on the news station, you know.
Badr
31:40
That's that's word right now. And I think, and I think that's why it's important to one, celebrate your wins, you know, whether big or small, yourself to make a big deal about it yourself.
Ryan
31:54
Yeah.
Badr
31:55
And I think also, you know, as I want to start transitioning to, you know, talking about creator versus, but also like the larger kind of community that is the Jax Podcast is unite. I think that's also it also lends itself to finding a community that appreciates, that understands. You know, like in the doc, they get they have a there's a set, a very short segment about editing, which to me was such a uh smart move to include. Like that spoke. I looked at Blythe.
Ryan
32:21
I love some editing. I looked at Blythe.
Badr
32:23
I'm like, oh, this is this podcast has got it all. We're talking about the hardships of editing. Like, come on, like this document. You know, Bonna was like hit tapping Blythe in that part. No, this is this is me. I was in the middle of editing of an episode one of what I think I think it lends itself to like why community is so important to find like your people that you can bounce ideas that can that feel it, right? Like that feel you in that regard. Um, which leads me to my next question. You know, uh for someone who is maybe listening uh or thinking about starting a podcast or some sort of creative project here in Jacksonville, um, well, let me take a step back. We all have experience. I mean, Al, you literally run a network of a podcast network with fellow Jacksonville podcasters. Ryan, uh, you have a whole community creators, you know, uh Jack's creators of, you know, dealing with not only podcasters, but artists and content creators, etc. In your personal opinion, both of you, Ryan, you kick it off. What do you think makes the local scene, what makes the local Jack scene here special, whether that be the podcast scene or just the larger creator scene?
Ryan
33:37
I don't know if this is independent to Jacksonville. I think this is probably something that's more eccentric to local in general, like in any city. I think any city where or any area where it really comes down to the people having to pick themselves up and to really scrape and crawl and achieve these things by the merit of one another and not have a bigger ecosystem that supports it, that kind of carries it through. Like for every other day, people in Jacksonville talk about like what things are like in other cities. That is like the ongoing comparison. Like, oh, but it's like this in Miami. Jacksonville can be more of a tech hub like how it was in Austin, or kind of like there's always this comparison, right? And those other cities do have a lot of resources and establishments already there. But when you don't have those things and you're trying to climb up, I think that unifies everybody. I think there's like a unity in the struggle. And I don't I don't want to say it's a Jacksonville only thing. I'm almost positive other cities go through the same thing as they're coming out.
Badr
34:45
Right, but look, this is the JPU show, so it can absolutely just be about Jackson.
Ryan
34:49
I mean, no, Jacksonville's the best. Duval, like I love Jacksonville, but I like to keep it realistic in terms of it because often we think that, oh, it's us. It's like, let's be more aware of what it's like in other places, so then we can make the actual intelligent and real conversation and get away from it being no, it's just us. It's like, no, there's other people like us.
Badr
35:11
All right.
Ryan
35:11
Are we in the good place or are we in the bad place right now? I don't know. Like, you know.
Badr
35:16
Al, I what do you think, Al, um, uh as a well-traveled man, as someone who has uh interviewed uh tons of other you know creatives, uh large, big, and small, famous and all of that. What do you think makes uh the the local scene here special in terms specifically in terms of the podcast scene?
Al Pete
35:34
Excuse me. I'm still it's funny because I'm still finding new people that are that do podcasts here in Jacksonville. Um just uh the interest and the curiosity that uh that Duval holds, I I love that part. Um, you know, it's one thing to love the city, but it's another thing to like like admire the city, you know what I'm saying? So um people have this like admiration of us. And it's interesting to see other creators that don't stay here, how they like how they rave of us. And just uh good point. The spirit that we have. Like, I've I've had so many people come in town and they be like, yo, they love Jacksonville. People that literally have moved here, like for the sake of community or for the sake of the spirit that Jacksonville holds or whatever. So when it comes to the storytellers and the um the messengers, you know what I'm saying, those those folks or whatever, I think that's what makes it makes it uh great. Plus, you know, we are we so for me, like I'm I'm north side all day, you know what I'm saying? So I'm from the north side of Jax, but then I I've had conversations with people that grew up on the south side, and just even just sharing those stories alone, it just brings you into like this whole different world. I remember when I first discovered like five points, stayed here, you know, majority of my life and didn't even know didn't even know five points existed until after I came back from college. And I was just like, wow. So you know, so it's just that that uh intrigue type of situation. And um even with me, I think people love the fact that I have this big spirit of the north side on me. You know what I'm saying? So it brings people into those worlds, and I think when you get all those getting into the pot, um, it just gives us a more of a uh of an identification of like who we are and you know what we can go further with when it comes to Duval, especially when it comes to podcasting, because we literally can cut on the microphones and talk about it, whether we're joking about it, talk about the gaming world, talk about you know, it's all kind of sports, music for sure. Like all of that. So I like the I like the richness and I like that uh key identity when it comes to Duval.
Ryan
37:53
Can I jump off that for a second? Yeah, please. I want to say, because now I'll give you the more the answer you actually wanted instead of me getting too deep into shit. Um Jacksville does have a great stable of champions. And like Al, like you're one of those without a doubt. Like, I think there's multiple champions now in this city. Bonner uh Blyth's one.
Badr
38:17
Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah. Uh yeah, you can show me if it means elevate life. Yeah, go ahead.
Ryan
38:22
But uh, but you know, I think enough of there's many of those, and there's enough to cover the multiple areas and cultures and different factions of the city. Like everybody kind of has one or two people that they look up to. And to your point, I think people coming in from other cities, it's that is a very unique thing to see one city because we're so damn huge, you know, has like these multiple cultures. It's like you go from section to section, it's like you walk into another city, like five points in the beaches night and day, and each section of the city has its own different champions of the culture of that area. And I think that's really unique to Jacksonville. I think that's very almost intoxicating for someone coming in from the outside.
Badr
39:07
For sure. Look, I would be remiss if I didn't champion um the local Jacks podcasting, because Al said something that um I want to emphasize, and that I that's the diversity of the different podcasters that I've had the the privilege of meeting and interacting with, you know, for the last six years going on with the JP or eight years at the eight years, eight years. Holy shit, wow, eight years are just down on me. Yeah, almost almost eight years of the JP. Yeah, we should have left you throughout the long time ago. Ryan, if we weren't really I would punch you, I would punch you through this riverside over. But oh Lord. I think both of you guys are touching. I love both of y'all. Yeah, the I think the underdog spirit of of Jack's creators of art, the artist, the podcaster, etc., and then the diversity. Like I love that word that you use uh Al uh the richness of the city because it is so large. There is so many micro hubs. There is, you know, we you know what I'm saying? It's like especially in the podcast space, like it is insane. There's not one category, topic, theme, genre, niche, whatever that is not uh uh represented by a local podcaster. So um, gents, I I want to pivot to talking about uh give Ryan a chance to talk about Creative Verse, but I want to remind the listeners. Uh we have tried to keep this uh this documentary review pretty spoiler-free. Um, I think we've succeeded. And once again, uh Age of Audio, it is not available worldwide yet, but you can definitely watch it yourself if you come to our Age of Audio screening event on Wednesday, June 3rd. All right, we're doing this in partnership with WJCT Public Media. Big shout-outs to our sponsors, Buzz Sprout and Podmatch. It's a free event, right? It's a free movie and then a QA panel of the director. He's gonna be here in Jax, and I guarantee you, when he comes to visit Jax, he's gonna be like, damn, this is a great city, all right? So you can catch that live once again, Wednesday, June 3rd, RSVP tickets. Uh, link in the show notes for tickets. With that said, let me tell you, which I think, by the way, I'd say all that to say, I think that the screening is going to be a good precursor to uh the Creatorverse event, which is taking place that following weekend, uh, June 13th and the 14th. Uh, Ryan, spotlight on you, buddy. Uh, the crop the Creatorverse conference, it's more than just audio. You guys, uh, you're inviting this is a conference for artists, content creators, musicians, uh, entrepreneurs, etc. Uh uh why is that cross-pollination of creative disciplines like so important for the modern creators?
Ryan
41:45
I think that one, Al, if you want tickets, I got you. I got you. I gotta say that first. So you just let me know.
Badr
41:52
Because like Bodder, you're gonna have to pay $100.
Ryan
41:55
Yeah, you know, like so. I'm gonna double the price for Bodder.
Badr
41:59
But uh Ryan's gonna be like Bodder, use this, uh, use this promo code. It's hook you up. It's gonna be like 200% plus.
Ryan
42:06
No, it's I think creators, and I don't think this is just a modern thing. I think when we look back in history, most artists weren't like a single discipline. And when we start now, I think if we open up the I always get asked, okay, well, what is a creator? And everybody just like, well, what is it? What is it? Like, it's more about like what adjective you want to put in front of it. Because everybody creates different things. Like, whether you create music, if you're a storyteller, you're an artist, maybe you do things through like again, a lot of people live stream, and I feel like that's another way of like this is the current day diary of expression. So, like, there's so many different ways, and there's so many different technologies that we really can't define it. Like, it would be kind of foolish to be like, this is the one thing, or these are the five things. Like, we can't. So even in controversial stuff with AI. I'll say AI so you can get that picked up in the SEO, and then maybe that'll be. Thanks, Ryan. I was thinking of AI, AI, AI. No. Um that's why I think like getting people from the different disciplines together, because frequently we don't have all of the skills. Like, we're good at two or three things, but we really need help on the maybe three or four other things. Maybe, like Al, when you were talking about you get into that production edit mode, but it's like, well, crap, I need to really spend some time on doing the actual liaison mode and trying to get that other business component done. Or it's like, okay, you're great on the camera and you need someone to do editing. Or wait, you know what? You don't know anything about sound, but I could do video. And there's so many of us are willing to help one another. Like if we can just get directly to one another and not have to then deal through like a third party agency or company, like we can help each other directly. There's a guy down the street from you to help me with my car when the radiator blew. I gave him a few sandwiches, he drove out. Orange Spark all on his own to help me out. Someone else needed a website.
Badr
44:03
My man gave him some sandwiches.
Ryan
44:05
Dude, they were and they weren't even good sandwiches. They were so hard. No, I'm kidding. No, but I took care of him extra because he took care of me. So he's like, Ryan, you don't gotta do this. I'm like, no, I need to give you more because you just gave me so much. Same thing. Someone needed a website the other day. She got quoted out like $3,000 to do some website changes. I was like, nah, I got you. I can knock this out in like two or three hours. It's fine. Because we're all the same kind of people. If it was like a cold-hearted business, it'd be a different thing. But I don't think any of us want to be that. We just want to create. That's it.
Badr
44:36
Brian, you're uh the the event, the event is going to have workshops, panels. You've got experts uh, you know, uh doing uh leading these panels in these workshops. What's one one or two things that you hope attendees walk away from this conference, you know, learning or or get out of it?
Ryan
44:55
I hope they one, meet somebody else where like a relationship spawns where they can do something more going forward. And two, I hope they hear of somebody else's experiences, really like the failures, and it gives them hope that they can keep going forward. I think a lot of people, when you see if someone can represent a level of success that you're aspiring to get to, and they can tell you about the failures that they've had and trying to get there, it gives you that hope unless you know that it's okay with your experience. Again, very much like the movie, I'm gonna lose money on this shit. But uh that's that's the kind of spirit, right? Like you know that you're going into it, not because you're trying to make money, it's because you want to create, you want to get this feeling out of you and you want to connect with other people. So that's what I want other people to get out of. You can just meet one person that's gonna help you help kind of stoke those flames within you to keep you going and make something greater, then it's a success.
Badr
45:54
Hmm. All right, Ryan, I got one more question for you. And now I would love for you to chime in on this one too. But what does a successful creator community look like to you? Like, like how are events like Creatorverse pushing us toward that goal of like you know, that ideal, like, hey, Jax has a successful creator community. What does success look like to you?
Ryan
46:14
Success is when I don't have to do this shit anymore, and they can do it on their own. No, it's like you could have quit years ago.
Badr
46:20
I know stubborn for punching drug and you love community so much. Actually, I think you might need to go to Rehab for Community. I just like it. I probably do. This man loves connection too much.
Ryan
46:31
I feel like he's beyond help. No, like it's one of those things, I think very similar to what y'all live in as well. Like you want to see your community once people start actually helping one another and they don't feel the barriers. Actually, I'll say that. There's that part, this is the feel-good part, this is the spiritual, the ethical part that we all want to see in truly having a village. It's like, okay, I need help, and I know someone's got me, and they're not gonna judge me for it. Like, or if they can't help me, they're gonna help me find somebody else that's gonna be able to help me. That I want that part to be there. And then the business part of where our creative community needs to start understanding value and not just it's to protect the businesses and the creators. Like, you can't go in saying, well, I've got, and you've heard me say this before, hey, I got two million views on so-and-so, so I should I can charge $5,000. Like, bitch, these three million people don't live here in Jacksonville. That's not gonna help this business. You need to understand how do you provide value to the businesses that you want to work with. And once you can provide that, then the business can pay you. And if you can keep providing that, then the ecosystem thrives. If you want to work with a national brand, great, do it. But if you want to be able to help your local community, you have to actually be honest with yourself in terms of how you can help your local community and then represent that truly to that other business and be like, hey, I know I'm bringing in X. So let's figure something out. And it's it's uncomfortable to have those kind of conversations. We don't we're we're artists, we don't want to, we just want to make the cool shit. But it's like you gotta know how to go into that uncomfortable space. I mean, that's what it looks like to me. Success is when those two things can happen. I guess when we get leveled up from the heart and from the mind, I think then we can actually be a successful community. But I'm gonna move anyways. I'm getting out of here.
Badr
48:28
This is my last Ryan is like an MCU film, just when it's like nice and serious, and you're like, wow, that was really hard. Fell, he's gotta ruin it with someone.
Ryan
48:39
I've been playing that Puerto Rico song like every day.
Badr
48:41
Like I think it's like I love uh you need to put this on a shirt when we level up from the heart. That's that's I that's a good phrase. Uh Al, what about you, man? What does a successful creator community in Jax look like to you?
Al Pete
48:55
Um the people that give, not just be the givers and the people coming in not being, you know, just being the takers. It needed to be it needed to be a balance. It need to be a balance, man. You know, like it need to be a like well, a give-take, but and it need to be some some reciprocity there, you know what I'm saying? And I feel like a lot of people come in with that mentality, like, okay, well, either I got burnt by this person or I done went through so many situations where I gotta come in with the the business is business mindset. And it's like, nah, a lot of people live off principles and and and and morals. And I know this is like my second or third time bringing that part up, but I feel like that's definitely true and too communicating. Yeah, like I mean, but people don't have those values like that, and then they come in and then they pollute it. And it's a lot of people out here that genuinely would like to have help. Uh, even from an economic standpoint, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, and I bring my DJing uh hat on in this situation, but you know, if I was, you know, if I was in California or if I was in New York, you know what I'm saying, I probably wouldn't be able to charge more. But one, but one, I could I bring the value first off. First and foremost, I bring the value. And I've I've it's proven. But when you're thinking about the economical aspect of like where we're at and stuff like that, when you get deep into it, you know, these people ain't around here walking with a whole bag of money. And then I'm just I'm real big on blessing someone, and that comes back to you. I'm really big on that. Like if you just be good to your people and um be there for them, um those blessings will come back to you tenfold. And um I stand on that like a lot. I've been blessed tremendously on that. But I'm not even looking to get blessed when I'm helping somebody. Sometimes a lot of the stuff that people come to me about, I'm like, all right, cool. Boom, boom, boom, boom. I don't it's I don't even have to think about it. But then on the back end, they'll hit me up two or three months later. Hey, I got this and da-da-da. I want to make sure that I bless you with it because you brought this value to it. So um that's that's success for me. Just really having reciprocity and then just having people come in with a level ground of like respect and uh humanity and um just some some empathy too, man. Somebody could somebody has somebody around here right now has like a very great idea to propel all of us, you know what I'm saying, in each space. And that person is getting um is getting discouraged by somebody that wants to tax of you know $50 million for one little small thing or whatever. Um last point that I want to make, you know, it's each one teach one. You know what I'm saying? When it comes to research, when it comes to study and stuff like that, or any type of information or education, like education is very powerful. So I make sure that I pour back into my people. If I find something, hey, here you go. Uh this might help for you, this and the third. Like, like those things make it it brings a success that uh will look very good, uh, especially for like Duval folks. I would love to see. And we have, for the most part, we have uh pretty cool uh community when it comes, especially when it comes to podcasting. Like, I feel like that's one of the easiest communities in Jacksonville that I'm part of. Like, even if I'm not at Dave at the meetups or whatever, I still interact with these people when I see them out online and all the other stuff. So it's pretty cool. But you know, I would just like to turn up a notch a little bit more on the things that I mentioned reciprocity, um, just empathy, support, all that stuff.
Badr
52:33
I said, uh what is that? A raising tide lifts all boats. I think that's the vibe I got out of that.
Ryan
52:38
Um and this is where Bonner announces the Jack's podcaster awards. He's gonna put them on every year, pay for completely out of his day job. He don't care about the money.
Badr
52:49
Sometime in December. You know we don't plan that far. But I think everything, Al, what you're saying, is is um summarizes what our goal for the JPU has been throughout these last couple years, which is why not Jax? Why can't Jax um specifically for podcasting be a hub, a a city that people think of when they think of like podcasts, you know, like, oh wow, no, Jax has got that community. They do these events. Like, we want everyone to be elevated. And to your point, like, you know, that's why we throw these events and uh, you know, get podcasters together, is to share that knowledge for all of us to like, you know, uh learn from each other's unique experiences.
Ryan
53:29
Like the one on June 3rd that everyone should be going to.
Badr
53:33
Thank you, Ryan. Which I I think it is. It's I think this is a good stopping point. This has been a fantastic conversation. Al, thank you so much, Ryan. You you were pretty okay. Um with that being said, ladies and gents, my name is Bodder. This is the uh Jack, this is the JPU show. And we just finished uh talking with uh Al Pete. We just finished talking with Ryan, Paul Thompson, about uh this age of audio, uh podcast documentary, which is fantastic. Like I said, it it's not available for worldwide release just yet. But if you're in the Jacksonville or Northeast Florida area on Wednesday, June 3rd, you can watch the film for free at WJCT Public. Sorry, you can watch it at WJCT Public Media. We're screening the film at their studio room. It's a huge room. The screen is amazing, the space is awesome. Uh, it's a free event. All you got to do is RSVP, all right? I'm asking you, I'm I did all the planning. We did everything else for you. Hell, I'm even gonna show you something here, too. We even printed uh these exclusive art movie prints that we're gonna be handing out for free, uh, done by a local artist. Big shout outs to Clay Doran, all right, did the poster art for us. We're giving those out for free. Uh, there's gonna be popcorn, there's gonna be beverages, it's gonna feel like a movie, you know, theater experience. So, once again, click the link in the episode show notes. Uh, RSVP Wednesday, June 3rd, 6 p.m. We also got that panel immediately after the film. It's gonna be with the director, Sean Michael Cullen, uh joined by a couple of local podcasters to talk about the film to dive deeper into what we've already talked about and fully spoiler by then. Uh so check it out. And then uh don't check it on Pirate Bay. Do not check it on Pirate Bay because it's not there. I already checked. Uh, Ryan did too.
Ryan
55:19
I was about, I was like, after I ripped it, I was gonna upload it. I'm like, nah, don't do it like that.
Badr
55:24
All right, Ryan, Ryan, tell us about Creative Verse, where people need to go to get. I might have a link to Creative Verse in the show notes, but tell us one more time about Creativerse.
Ryan
55:32
Uh, if you're a creator of any kind and you're looking for some help for some community, come out to the Creatorverse conference on June 13th and 14th. You can go to jackscreataverse.com. I'll even put in a code. I'll put in a code. I was gonna make a plus 200 for plus 200 for seven. It's the code uh JPU and we'll knock 20% off uh the ticket price, and we'll just make butter pay for the difference. But yeah, it's two days of panels, workshops, lots of opportunities to meet other creators. Come on through.
Badr
56:02
Ryan, real quick, uh, I don't think we had a chance to say it all. Where is Creative Verse taking place?
Ryan
56:06
I don't know. I'm trying to figure that out. It's at the Schultz Conference Center, Schultz Bachers Center. I love it. All right.
Badr
56:15
Big shout outs, community first. We love the bank, man. There you go. That's that's how I sold out. The credit union. Sorry, if you want to disrespect community first all day. That's right. Al, it wouldn't be right if uh we're over here like shamelessly plugging. Come on.
Al Pete
56:28
What you got going on, man? What do I have going on? Um not much, man. Well, not let me tell you that bad. That's a lie. That is definitely.
Badr
56:38
If there's anyone that uh that that has some cool shit going on at any you know moment of the week, it's it's Al. Al, what you really got going on?
Al Pete
56:46
Yeah, so uh from a uh podcaster standpoint, working on uh uh Tables Might Wobble 2. Um, that's the the narrative series that I did. The Tables Might Wobble, where was I was talking about DJs, and I wanted to kind of give an insight of how DJs live and work, blah, blah, blah. So I did that first series many moons ago, I think of 2022 when I released it. So I'm I'm working on the second series of it. Uh, so that's a narrative podcast, you know, that's that's dear to me. Um Clear Visions podcast, my my personal podcast, I'm working on this series where I'm talking about connecting the dots, where uh to talk about how people should know how to connect the dots. So I'm using it from an audio standpoint. Um so that's from the podcasting standpoint. But as far as like DJing, DJing everywhere, MCN starting to record again to finish another uh album or whatnot. So um just a lot of stuff, man.
Badr
57:42
Many hats, man. I love it. Yeah. Look, I'm gonna have uh uh links to uh Al's uh socials website and all of that stuff, as well as Creative Verse. Check them all out, and uh hopefully it won't be so long in between episodes. But this was a special occasion, first JPU event of the year coming up, so we had to get on the mics one more time. Jen says it's been great. Listeners, I love you guys. Take care until next time. Peace.
