Episode 3: A Pilot Named SUE (Pt.2)

March 06, 2024

Episode Transcript

Ever wondered what it's like to navigate life's turbulent skies and still land your dreams? That's the flight plan for the continuation of our heart-to-heart with Travis, as we share a cockpit full of stories about the unsung heroes of mentorship, the grit needed to bounce back from life's nosedives, and the power of a supportive community.

In this Flight Deck Discussion, we tackle the taboo of failure, discussing how each nosedive is a lesson in the making, and why asking for help might just be your jet fuel for growth. We get candid about the importance of setting goals that keep your altimeter climbing steadily, and draw on our own flight logs to illustrate how even the smallest gains can lead to major milestones. Our conversation then cruises into the world of military transitions, and the art of maintaining authenticity in a world that often pushes for uniformity.

Finally, we prepare for our final approach by discussing aviation conferences, where handshakes and business cards can unlock doors to flight decks across the industry. Travis and I share how volunteering and engaging genuinely can lead to more than just career connections—it can enrich your flying career with a sense of purpose and community. So, whether you're perfecting your pre-flight checklist or gunning for the captain's seat, remember: the right crew can make all the difference. Pour a glass, and join us as we conclude the story of a pilot named SUE.

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See full episode transcriptTranscript is autogenerated by AI

Speaker 1: 0:04

you, I like it. Hey, what's up everybody? It's Doug Pistorius. Any alligator? Again we're on episode three. Thank you guys for joining us.

Speaker 1: 0:50

This is going to be the second part of the Travis interview. We had so much to talk about last time so we figured fuck it, let's go ahead and let's do it live and just make it a two-parter Once again. As always, if you like what you hear, please go to Apple Podcasts. Leave a five-star review, even if you don't like what you hear. Just be a bro and do that anyway. I'd really appreciate it.

Speaker 1: 1:08

That will help me in the search results. That way, I can overcome the handicap one-armed yarn-knitting podcast. Any help would do with that. If you have any questions, comments, concerns, or you like what you hear today, please hit me up on the socials. If you'd like to be a guest on the show, you can leave me a message there or email me at theseennialaviatorcom. Whatever works, just please get a hold of me. So yeah, dude, without further ado, we got Travis back here, aka Sue, which I learned. I missed the naming of that call sign whenever I left VP40, but I think that I see you very nicely. We had a pretty solid conversation a couple days ago. I took some time and I reflected on some of the stuff we talked about, especially with some of the stuff you're doing with Bitfire. Overall, at the end of the day, it's really just all about being a good f***ing woman.

Speaker 1: 1:58

And it seems like that quality has really just come by the wayside. You made some good points about it, just like the current situation, the way things are going and just kind of the current environment and things. But I don't think we're too far off to where we can't get back to those things. And it made me think a lot about it because, just like you said a couple of nights ago, you got to the position you're in because people helped you get there and you wouldn't have got there without the help that they gave you. And that's 100% the same way I feel, dude, like there's no way in hell I should be where I'm at right now.

Speaker 3: 2:34

And yeah, if you look at my background, it's not your top 1% kind of background. You know what I'm saying. And like we like to say that in the Navy, top 1%, it's like, well, yeah, because there's the opportunity to do it, and really like, once you're kind of in the pipeline man, it's they want to keep you there, right. It's like once you're kind of foot in the door. It's going to take a lot of hard work, but I know zero people who have made it alone, and even the ones that did, take heed, they're what I like to call like a social claymore, if you will. You know what I mean. You just like dude, if you're not surrounding yourself with like-minded people. If you're not, you know, if you're the average of the five people you spend the most time around, you're also the average of their work ethic too, by the way. So like if you're not going to pick a good circle and the nice thing about the whole flight pipeline and even the transition out into the airlines and the Spitfire thing all that is is taking some time, which is free, and putting yourself around people who are motivated, successful and understand that they got there with the help of other people too, and so it's the opposite of the vicious cycle, it's the good cycle, if that makes sense. You know what I mean. But that's what it takes Like yeah, it was a lot of hard work, but, dude, the only people I know that did not surround themselves or seek out any kind of help are like bro. I don't know where they're at now, but I can tell you that if they showed up at a party like that party's over bro, you know what I mean Like it's like okay, shut it down, because, yeah, you got to have a good circle.

Speaker 3: 4:12

Getting back to like just good dudes being good dudes. You're man, you're never more in a phone call away from that, and so it's a super easy one to get back to. I think that's. There's still a lot of good in there too. I mean, even if you were in different ends of the naval kind of spectrum, right.

Speaker 3: 4:27

But like I've seen the aviation side, the shipyard side, you've got the prior enlisted side, and the one constant with all of those things is like who's? Who are the good dudes? Who do you go to for help? Who are you not scared to go to for help? Who's? Who's going to let you walk away with your dignity and be a little smart at the same time. It's the same type of people, so they're, they're all everywhere. It's just like how do you, if you, in terms of, if you walk into a room with 50 people, maybe there's a few less than there used to be, just because people are maybe either fed up over it or they just got too much on their plate with the family stuff, but, like the, they're definitely still out there. And if you don't buy that, like dude, I'm not here because I made it on my own.

Speaker 1: 5:09

So 100% dude. I brought this up in my first episode when I kind of gave an intro about who I am and what I'm about, and also I'm hoping to have somebody I reached out to. I haven't spoke with in probably like 15 years due to some stuff. I can tell you about that offline, but I consider this guy very much a mentor before I came back in the Navy as an officer, because he kind of sent me back on the right direction from just going home and being a bum. I'm totally 100%.

Speaker 1: 5:35

I believe that the people you surround yourself with, like you just said, I think that makes a huge impact on your attitude, your motivation and your demeanor. You can be a rock star, but if you're hanging out with dipshits who have no motivation, no lack of going anywhere direction, you're going to get stuck in that rut. I mean not always, but nine times out of 10, that's going to happen. And he had a really good saying. It was success is like a train. You have a chance to get a ticket to that train and you need to decide if you're going to get on board or not. But you have. If you get on board, you have to be okay with the fact that, hey, maybe your parents aren't going to get on board with you, maybe your family's not going to get on board with you, maybe best friends. But you need to decide are you going to get on that train or not? And that's a tough decision for some people, surprisingly, but it's always been ingrained in my head thinking about that.

Speaker 3: 6:28

Yeah, no, I've had to let a few go. You know what I mean. To this day, I can still count my good friends on, like I would say one just over one hand. Now which man I'm doing? Good, if that's the case. And I'm talking to those people where it's like, hey, maybe I haven't talked to you in months.

Speaker 3: 6:45

Right, I got my one of my best buddies back home. They just and like I'll sometimes go more than a year without talking, between deployments and coming home and debts and then working back up. But every time I see him it's like I never left. And to this day, if I'm in Florida and he's in Washington and I'm like three in the morning, hey, bro, all four tires are flat. Right, nobody carried. Like I don't carry around more than one spare. I probably should, but we're in the sticks, bro.

Speaker 3: 7:09

But, dude, like those people will show up, they will find a way, right, and like those are the good ones, right, I've got a few of those and then some along the way that you just got to let go. Because it's like they and it's no fault of their own To me, I wasn't done yet, you know what I mean. And like they, I wouldn't say they settled, but they just got off that train a little earlier and that's all good man, but the people that get off that train don't want to do and kind of like that. And then again it's easy for me to say like I'm not married, and so it's just kind of one of those victim circumstance things, your variables, your variables, and if that's the time for you to get off the train, that's fine for me.

Speaker 3: 7:52

I was like I want to do everything I possibly can because I worked this hard, made it this far. What's next? What's next, what's next? And but yeah, man, like along the way you're going to run into those people there's people are in your circle and then they exit the train for whatever reason, and you're like all right, well, I guess I'll keep going. Then you know what I mean. Find some new ones. They're all out there.

Speaker 1: 8:11

Totally and you know to your point. It's no hard feelings with it. I have two friends I've known for over. Both of I known for over 25 years and it's a very stark night and day comparison. One dude I'll get texts from every now and then. We just kick, you'll appreciate this. We kick back and forth gangster rap lyrics $5.00.

Speaker 3: 8:30

I've ever lost.

Speaker 1: 8:31

Yeah, we could talk about that here in a second. I meant to bring it up last time but we didn't have time. But yeah, like well, he's a cool dude. I can go down in Tampa. I know I can have a beer with him and say a bunch of dick and fart jokes and have a good time. But do I need to when push comes to shove? Is it somebody I can call up and be like hey bro, like you said, your flat tire thing, like hey bro, I really need help here. That's going to be a 5050 shot. It's going to depend on if it's convenient for him and whatever.

Speaker 1: 8:57

That's okay, I know what to expect out of him now and he's done the same thing with life. He's he's actually a couple years older than me, he's like 43, 44 and he works his three or four day a week business and he's okay with that and I mean I'm not just, but hey, I respect that Whereas I have another buddy who's my age as well, I went to high school with and he's an animator for Disney and he is that guy I can call up and be like hey need your help, yeah, and he would be up here just like that, and that's a lot of my military friends equally.

Speaker 1: 9:30

But for a civilian to be able to say that that's, in my opinion, that's huge, because I don't think that friendship is too apparent.

Speaker 3: 9:37

On, the and that you bring up a good point just because I mean the military types is like I don't like. I think it's changed over time. The military's changed even in like the push on 11 years active and just cross over into the reserves and you're like everybody always likes the. Oh yeah, you guys are all type A and everything. It's like well, yeah, but really if you break it down to brass tacks, it's like if you pack people's plates as full as our plates had to be and so and nobody wants to fail it's kind of like man, it's just a baptism by fire thing. It's just like who who jumped in to get baptized. You know what I mean and so, but at a certain point you would you adapt to that and that becomes your norm. Sorry, if you just heard that that was super loud. My computer's trying to update and so Bill the Gates can spy me more. So you bring up a good point about that kind of on the civilian side, who are there? People out there just like like the? I guess I don't want to say like us that step up, like no, yes, there are like dude, I was one of the girls I was coaching for for spitfire.

Speaker 3: 10:42

She's in my interview, class Coolest chick I think I have ever met. I won't give her name on here, but she was from Columbia, right, Got fascinated with aviation at an early age, which is a pretty common story, right, that's how everybody's intro seemed to start. Like I saw planes flying overhead and I was like, well, yeah, okay, but why do you care what, what? And that's where we get into the why, like we were talking about last time. And this girl Columbia, right, not at that at this point is probably 20 years ago, not super into like the, the equal opportunity side of the house that the US of a was on. You know what I mean. And so she was like.

Speaker 3: 11:20

I want to fly. And they were like, oh, pack sand, and so they're no scholarships, no grants, like they just wouldn't give them to her. It's Columbia. And so she said, well, how can I fly? And they said you basically have to be like an Olympic gold medalist. So this girl went out, trained her ass off what went, went and was like I think she I don't know if she was a gold medalist, but she was a medalist in Olympic kayaking for the Colombian, like Olympic or not Colombian Olympics, but like the, the Olympics, but representing Columbia, got the scholarship, that point to become a pilot, wet pri, like private aviation through the whole, whole realm.

Speaker 3: 12:01

Right, southwest, believe it or not, actually told her no, because they didn't believe that, like they're, like your story is you could go anywhere. Why do you want to come here? And I think they just like she is a perfect cultural fit again, like we were talking about for Southwest, which I thought was screw it though, and she's like what, I love the culture at Southwest, I love the culture and all of them. But for a company to know that story, like if I had a biz, like a construction company, and this girl didn't know how to swing a hammer or do anything like I'm going to hire you anyway just because of that drive, right? You want to talk about not taking no for an answer, right, and it's like we talk about a lot of the willpower some of these clients and this is where I say it's like I think this, this go factor, if you will, is is really out there way more than I ever thought it would have been, and I only realized that after I started doing the Spitfire thing is, dude, I never. I was one and done for all my interviews, right, because I was a Spitfire client, sure, but like I, I think I just talked to people. Well, really, then that's that's, and I think that helps. But you still have to understand I put in the work, right, I've never not put in the work, and I put in the work and it and it paid off. But the people that put in the work and get told thanks but no thanks, and then they get another opportunity, is their dream shot, dream shots, dude. And then they get the thanks but no thanks. And then it happens again they get a thanks but no thanks, and they still saddle up and then they go and now they're flying for Delta, united or Southwest.

Speaker 3: 13:27

It's like man, I've been kicked in the dick before from the Navy side of the house, like from VP 40 and several different times. Like you want this Qualic now I was like why you literally gave to somebody who cheats on their wife. So why? Why can't I play, and it's. But I was pissed off for a long time. I mean, even you and I still chat. We're both pretty bitter about that place still. Yeah, but look at these people that go through that same kind of heartache and they saddle up and now they're. They're flying for the majors and this chick just went out, became an Olympic athlete, for Christ's sake. So like Don't tell me that it's not out there for everybody who wants to go out and take it, and you know it's like who wants to get off the train, who doesn't? Right?

Speaker 1: 14:08

100%. That shit man, that lady's conducting the train. Yeah, she's conductor, bro.

Speaker 3: 14:14

Yes, yeah, no pun intended, that's some cahones right there like yeah, man, no, and that is awesome, Dude, she's funny, cool. Like just this is like the person that comes to your mind and you're like who? Do? I want to have a beer with Like that.

Speaker 3: 14:26

I want to have a beer with that. I want to have a beer with somebody who said fuck it, watch me Right, that's awesome and it's out there. Not military right, not military at all, but like it's, and this job has really shown me a lot more of that. This bit fired, that's awesome. And really, just flying for the airlines dude, you run into some crazy stories when you're captive audience with somebody for three hours, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 14:49

And once again, that's yet another point why I wanted to do this show and kind of what I prefixed that my first episode was the fact that I just I want to have. I mean also obviously it'd be really cool if I had like some cool guests, like some famous people on here. But whatever, who do you want I wanted to have? Who do you want?

Speaker 3: 15:09

You want directors of pilot and stuff. I can hook you up. No, you tell me.

Speaker 1: 15:14

Honestly, I didn't mean that as anybody in particular, but the more the moral of the point was I I wanted just normal dudes and ladies like who are doing extra ordinary things Like I consider us just normal guys, man, but at the end of the day we want that extra mile or we surround ourselves by people who go that extra mile, and I've always been a firm believer that success. You only need to be like 5% more you know, 5% better than the other person to make yourself stand out and or just give it one more shot that they weren't willing to take.

Speaker 1: 15:47

Yes, yes, and that's huge. Failure is a huge thing and I love talking. It's as funny as it is like I must be a glutton for punishment. I love talking about failure because I feel like you can learn a lot from failure and people don't realize that failure is very much a determining factor. That's a make or break and, just like you said, with getting dream shots and getting told thanks for playing, thanks for coming out, the mental wear, a thaw and just the motivation to be able to turn around, say no, I'm not taking that as an answer, I'm going to get this done one way or another. That's huge, man. I feel like there's a lot to learn from failure and I think I feel like there's a lot to teach people from failure oh absolutely.

Speaker 1: 16:26

And that kind of gets back to when we talked a couple of days ago, like with flight school students and stuff like that it's okay to fail, like it's all right and you're going to learn a lot from it. And unfortunately, when we talked about you have some of those people who either they won't exemplify that, they won't amplify that tenant, or once you fail, you're done, you're dead to them. And that's bullshit. Man, like I would take anybody, I'll take a person all day, any day, who's been through the fire, who's learned how to fail something, then somebody who's never learned how to fail at all, because that person's never had to fight.

Speaker 3: 16:59

It's like the people that have been told they were forgive the term but like the people that were told they've been special their whole lives. And then they get out into the real world and you're not special. The world doesn't owe you anything, and that's what I love about not to keep bringing it back to Spitfire. But Bill Sims at our tag got up in front of a room. What did we pack in that room? Like 700 and something people in a room that didn't need to hold 700 people, like it was packed dude. And he got up there and he said I'm going to burst your bubble. This is our tags kind of military conference. He's like you're not owed shit, sorry, guys. So if you thought you were owed shit, why are you sitting in this room asking for help? So like that's, there's two parts to this. Number one, asking for help, is in failure, and this is for, like everybody else out there, that I feel like I'm on a Spitfire coaching session now. But it's very true.

Speaker 3: 17:51

How do you define that failure? Where do you call it a fail and not a teaching moment? Do you even call? Do you even have the line? Do you consider any of those a failure? So, like I mean I don't want to cheese the shit out of this, but like Edison, right. So I found out a thousand ways not to make a light bulb, like yeah, cool, that's cute, but really these people get thanks but no thanks. I was like I found out how not to interview and immediately after found out how to interview, right. And so even you're wearing a Star Wars shirt, even Yoda season, right? Yep, success allows the teacher. Is there something like?

Speaker 1: 18:24

that Einstein minus.

Speaker 3: 18:27

Whatever. But I have trust Yoda more than I trust Einstein, because Yoda had personal skills still. But hey, I'm just a salty half redneck from the Northwest. But to the point is is where do you call it a fail and decide to come down on yourself? Or where do you just be like, all right, that didn't work, let's try it this way, right. And so it's just like learning to fly a plane, like how many passes do you make in the landing pattern before you figured it out? Would you call each one of those previous passes a failure? I wouldn't. I would say okay, that didn't work, let's try something else, right.

Speaker 1: 19:03

Now, bro, speaking of did my first seven in the seven, three seven Last week, yeah, oh my God, those land, those landings hurt. Dude, I didn't realize it's totally opposite of landing the P3. And then finally, like my fourth, go round. I was like this. Let me get in the right seat. My right seat landing was way better than all my left seat.

Speaker 3: 19:22

Yeah Well, you remember Rain man, right? Yes, not the movie for everybody listening. Call signed Rain man, kyle, great dude. But this is the one thing that, dude. If you can make a washing machine fly, this dude can make it do aerobatics right, brilliant pilot. We got the seven three and like it was in our ATPCTT systems and I was like, oh man, my landing was better than Kyle's. So he did the next one, cratered it, man, and I just reached up and hit the seatbelt sign because I found out when that switched out.

Speaker 1: 19:49

I was just like just looked at him straight face. He was pissed.

Speaker 3: 19:54

It was funny though I thought it was funny, but that's funny.

Speaker 1: 19:57

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to no dude, I just you got me.

Speaker 3: 20:01

It's different getting back into that big wing sight picture yeah, man, it's again. But all those moments, even all the P three moments and everything, and really, if you're, if you consider anything as a training pipeline, right, anything you want, if you, if you set manageable goals manageable being the keyword if you set manageable goals and keep tabs on them, right, you can't just start with an end state and be like, okay, I'm going for it, and then it like doesn't go your way once, and then people stop and be like, yeah, I failed at that, okay, but did you start with a manageable goal? Just like, hey, by next week I'm going to try to go, find me a contact of somebody who knows more about this than I will and send him an email. Okay, manageable goals being the key there. One thing leads to another. That's we. We talked about this last time.

Speaker 3: 20:45

I was in a rock climbing class and gave a guy a phone call. Next thing, you know, I'm like studying for tests and I'm, I'm, I'm way more motivated and way more applied than I was before. And so again, where, where are your manageable goals? And how much juice did you put into it before you decided like, oh, I'm just, I'm going to call it there. I'm not cut out for it, like nobody's cut out for sucking, by the way, right, it's just not a thing that people like to take. It's like admitting when you're wrong, like human nature won't let you do that and it feels super great about it. You know what I mean. And so, again, it's kind of just going back to if you treat anything that you want like a training pipeline and just be like and break it up into chunks and like understand that you're not going to be graded it the first time, whether it's interviewing, getting out of the service, going into the service, going to the aviation side, whatever it is, any job you name it.

Speaker 3: 21:40

It's like you're going to start out dumb, you're going to have to get smarter at it, and maybe it's like a pretty reasonable progression because you set manageable goals and you're like, oh, I didn't fail in anything. You'll be like well, maybe you did, but you didn't consider it that way, or maybe you didn't, and you're just like the next I'd sign or whatever. I don't know. But you know more people than not, more often than not, the people I run into, normal people like you and me, who just were going to go that extra 5%, or we're just going to be able to say like, hey, I'm going to give it another shot, I'm just going to go get a few more resources behind me. And this is where I say it's like you cannot do this alone, whatever it is, or at least maybe you can, but you can't do it as good as it could be done. And if you're going to work that hard, why would you not want to do it better? I guess you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1: 22:30

A couple things. One I've always, I've always hated it and I don't know if this was your experience, but it was definitely my experience with our community is the whole basically asking for help is portrayed as a sign of weakness, and I've always thought that's total bullshit, because I'm going to quote the infamous Tupac for this one and say even the genius asked questions, and I wholeheartedly believe that and I I think that's a very foolish attitude to have if somebody's going to ask you questions or ask you for help, to betray. That is weak, because that that either says A you're a shitty leader because you're showing that you don't have time for this person, or B you don't include yourself.

Speaker 3: 23:08

The whole fake it till you make it Like what did we say?

Speaker 1: 23:11

Which I'm all about, dude, don't get me wrong Like I'm all about running the hustle. I've had to do that quite a few times in my life too. But comma, I'm all about helping out too. I would never laugh at somebody for like saying hey man, I need you.

Speaker 3: 23:23

Yeah Well, we have a saying and like. This is not a published thing, but you know, you talked to some of these old timers, from these old salty types. They joke about it on their great dudes. They work in the sim building over in T six land and I was coming out of P threes and going into this and I was like dude, I've flown this plane before coming back to it now as an instructor on the other side. It's like this is a lot to handle because I was a corpus dude and then you come through Florida's course rules and I thought I thought I was being hazed and turns out no, that was just the actual class. And I looked at the dude and I was like dude, how do I do this? And he's like hey, man, just stay one day smarter than the students, that's it.

Speaker 1: 23:59

But I was like all right, let me tell you for those course rules I distinctly still remember to this day setting up Lake. I would take things out of my kitchen pantry and I would set them up in my living room and I would walk it like oh, this is a barn, this is this, is that redneck's house? Down the road and I follow his road in Dude. Those course rules to get back to whiteing field were ridiculous.

Speaker 3: 24:22

I went full Sue on the instructor. I was like how the fuck.

Speaker 3: 24:24

Do you want me to find a triangle of trees in West Florida? Like you want me to find you a circle K two? Like there's three on every block, bro. Like that's not, like what a stupid mark, and anyway. So moving on, turns out it was pretty easy to find, but to the point, it's to stay one day smarter man, and I've leveled with students before.

Speaker 3: 24:48

I was like dude, I'm like prodigy. I've just had the opportunity to just screw up way more than you've had the opportunity to screw up because I've been doing this longer. I'm just here to try to help you not to mess up the things that I messed up. And if you do and you probably will, because it's common to mess with those common student trends, that's why they publish them. I was like dude, don't kick yourself. I'm not here, I'm not going to fail you. I'm not the evaluator today on the instructor today. You know what I mean, but without straying too far off. Yeah, we got talking about course rules. Like dude, it is a bear. But oh, yeah, it was just not being a dick, being okay, asking for help.

Speaker 3: 25:23

I think one of the one of the stigmas, or part of where that comes from, is when you're always kind of growing up in any valuatory environment, if that makes sense, right? So you want to be portrayed as the person who, man, this guy's got all the answers, or gal, right, guy? Or gal's got all the answers, you're the ones teaching the stuff, right, man, that's who you want. So if you're asking for questions, are you telling somebody that you don't have the answer? Pretty much, right, like you're basically telling them I'm not the guy to be teaching this, I'm the guy that needs to be taught it, and I think that's where the stigma comes from. However, it's all about, like, people being afraid to ask questions in front of the skipper, right, because they're like I don't want the skipper to know that I don't know this.

Speaker 3: 26:07

It's like, well, when you put the skipper in our shoes. I often thought about that and this is one thing that spools me up, strap in everybody. It's like you look at these CEOs that come through here that are just like, at a certain point you cross the threshold and you start believing your own bullshit and people are too scared to tell you otherwise 100% Because they'll crucify you. But you get to that point and you're like look man, I want to see the day when you were in my shoes fucking up the exact same things, and if you would have had the same attitude towards you as you do right now from the boss's seat.

Speaker 3: 26:45

And it certainly isn't that way because red boxes need to be green boxes for readiness Like it's that way because somewhere along the road shit changed. It went to your head, something happened and you stopped being a man of the people trying to help and basically getting out of your instructor role and all just becoming a sole evaluator because somebody put oak leaves on you and like, yeah, like now, I used to think about it. So outside of that uniform you're just another old person. Stand, and I'm standing in line behind at the commissary.

Speaker 1: 27:13

I am so glad you brought up the commissary because I meant to tell you this and I meant to start the show off with this. But let me tell you, dude, my biggest pet peeve in the world is well, first off, it's going to the commissary. I'm kind of a staunch public's shopper, but I'll go there whenever I need to and in a pinch I want to beat my head against the wall when I see in the self-checkout grandma or grandpa bringing their cart full of groceries. Like the self-checkout is not for that guy, damn it, just being a cheapskate. Go in the line, pay the bagger who doesn't get paid anything, give them a dollar or two as a tip and have them bag your, because I'm tired of waiting 20 minutes, sorry rant over.

Speaker 3: 27:56

Oh, you entitled to your dude, duggy. You're there, man, you've made it, because people that haven't made it can't complain about those things. No, man, they sell the best meat prices. But what's like calling the VA? Like I call the VA and I'm sitting here like, look, I called because I had just a question. I'm not mad yet Can you stop reading from your script for a hot second? We've had this conversation 13 times now. I know your script verbatim by now. I could read it to you. Would you like me to read it to you? They're like no, well, you know we have to read. I was like no, I know, I want a conversation, but like there is, you know what, this is perfect. This is good podcast material. You remember that movie with Will Smith, I Robot, yes, where, like the dead guy leaves a hologram and it still can answer questions, but it's only programmed to answer certain questions, and he's like I'm sorry, my responses are limited. You must ask the right questions. That's the VA. That is the VA, 100%. I just realized that 100%.

Speaker 1: 29:03

You know this, this stuff I'll keep it. I'll cut it off before we were talking about earlier. I like his little offline France.

Speaker 3: 29:09

That happened. But no, like that's, that's what it is. And again, where are they getting those people? Well, those people were not the go getter types, they're like well, now, granted, there are a lot of ways to serve, right, and maybe so, and I like to give my spitfire job is really really kind of like, really bolstered the empathy piece. I've always been like a put yourself in other people's shoes kind of guy, because I've usually been the one in those other shoes, the shittier shoes, because I've been in construction since I was 10, and not just construction, but like, dude, I've been working since I was 10. Right, like I've. And I held my first, like no kidding actual job before I could even drive, got to get dropped off or ride my bike, like that's kind of that old school, whatever. I didn't want to owe anybody anything. I wanted to work for it. I wanted to have control over my quality of life, not just, I just wanted my own money yeah.

Speaker 3: 30:01

I have your own money, like not, yeah, and it's like that. Then I could tell mom that I could stay out later because I wipe my own ass. But but, but no. Maybe people call up with the, just with that empathy piece, and say, oh, I want to serve. Like how about the Department of Veterans Affairs? And I could see somebody with the most honest intentions saying, every three months, the veteran suicide rate equals what basically equates to a 9-11 attack. And maybe they signed on and somebody said no, you can only read from this or you're going to get fired. I don't know how it goes, but it's government run healthcare for nine million people, so how great could it be? We have a problem as a society. We need to find a good solution. Nobody's going to the VA to recruit, right? How is that? Why is that? You know what I mean? Change my subject. I'm getting angry tonight.

Speaker 1: 30:53

I'm drinking bourbon. No, you're fine man. So dial them back over success and failures and stuff like that. Hopefully this doesn't spool you up, but it spools me up. One of the shittiest things I think I was ever told and it still rings with me and me and Nicole joke about it all the time was I got told you want it too bad, you're trying too hard.

Speaker 3: 31:12

That is a massive insecurity flag.

Speaker 1: 31:15

Like who the hell would see that?

Speaker 3: 31:17

So here there's a difference here. Trying too hard when, like, you're trying to be out there fitting in with the boys or like some mutual friends, whatever, okay, I get that Right, that but trying too hard to get all your quals and be as, get as fully qualified as you possibly can. When somebody says that, what do they really mean? In my mind, I think they mean you're not rolling over and playing dead hard enough. That's what that tells me. You're not willing to make waves enough, or you're too willing to make waves, rather Like again going back to right, or again insecurity, right, or you're asking questions that they probably either should know the answers to or never did know the answers to. I'm not going to. We can have an offline talk on the person that comes to mind blue Falcon numero uno but like you don't get to like treat people like shit because they're asking the question that you should have asked, right, and that's that is success and failure. Hallmark number one. What's not being asked right now? Right, what's the question that we're not asking? That's one. But two is yeah, dude, it's just when people say that and I'm sitting here thinking like, do you know how much scrutiny I like, me and a couple of other people in the squadron took when I was just asking questions about the COVID vaccine.

Speaker 3: 32:38

I was like, hey, look like the dots don't seem to line up here. And they're basically like do it or you're gonna get. You see him, jade. And you're like, hey, look man, I just tried to get a neck surgery, or not a, not a neck surgery. Right, there was my. Both discs are screwed. So it was like yeah, you're gonna need a fusion. I was like, what about a CDA? Right, they do that for seals and I don't know much about it, but that's where they just fully replace the disc, as opposed to like suck it out and fuse everything together. Because I'm Like I'm in my early 30s.

Speaker 3: 33:09

I don't really want to fuse my neck just yet, forgive me, but. And so I asked the guys was like, what's got the name dudes? Like what's, what's with the CDA? They're like, yeah, that's a relatively new procedure. And I said, well, when? When's the earliest they were doing it for military guys? Well, you got about 20 years and I said 20 years, that's new. They're like in the field of medicine, yeah. And I was like, and you were gonna take me to fucking court because I didn't want your experimental shit for something that I've already had twice and had a 99 pop plus percent chance of being just fine. Like I'm in the top 1% already. I'll take those odds. And I'm like you can't give me those odds and then tell me it's the most deadly thing in the world and then say here, cover your, cover your face with this used piece of t-shirt that'll save your life. Like forgive me, but, but I got to tell you that those dots don't connect for me. And because I got three students that already got their shot and they will never be returned to a flight status because their heart rates are at 160 bpm's, and they were blaming the EKG machines, like I'm over here like look, I Just want a little more data.

Speaker 3: 34:17

Asking questions, making waves, remind me again what your job as an officer was. Right, like how the hell are you supposed to take care of some 18 year old dude who, like, gets scared stiff when he just sees the boss, let alone like has something to bring up? And that's where you talk about the little beat, like shitty leadership thing. What's a big hallmark of that? It's like dude it's. And I'm gonna I'm gonna use a phrase here that might make your eyes roll, but I got to tell you I am a believer in it because I've seen it work. And and it's DEI. We're right, there's certain companies that really like to interview about this now.

Speaker 3: 34:56

But some diversity, equity, inclusion, but not Diversity hiring for the sake of diversity hiring. So you look like you're some super inclusive organization. I mean like no again. What questions aren't we asking? You're going to get those questions from people who are it's a fresh set of eyes, right? Diversity, fresh set of eyes bring somebody from a different background, not necessarily geographic location, but different field, right? It's like.

Speaker 3: 35:21

So, between that, the equity piece, which is give everybody a voice, and then the inclusion piece, to me is how well did we incorporate the voice we just gave them, or did we do it at all? And in the Navy, when I see that, when, when some kid is so scared to ask the boss and then he asked the question, I've seen this happen where his kids like, hey, sir, how come we're not doing it this way? And he's like you haven't been around long enough to be asking those kind of questions. I said, in fact, sir, he's the perfect one to be asking those questions because we've been doing it the same way. The whole Does it. Let me, does this phrase ring a bell? That's how we've always done it, like well, shit, let's go get some duct tape, then put them back on the wings. Right, go get some. Go break out the wooden props.

Speaker 3: 36:04

When people turn around and be like, oh, you're trying too hard, or whatever, it's like no, because if they knew the answer, they would have just given you the answer. Right, there would it's been like good question, bro, I had the same one. This is what I learned. Boom, that's my circle now. Look man, I am. I'm sue, right, if you tell me you got an open-door policy, it will be tested right. And like I have, I have hit points, especially went up to the boat or I was like I'm gonna try to get fired and they ended up promoting me and like, not, not so like, oh for I mean like I went in there Asking questions fresh out of ice, like we're talking about.

Speaker 3: 36:42

It's like why does it take eight months to get a vacuum cleaner at triple the price? We can go by the same vacuum cleaner at home depot and get a military discount. Serve mark Granger, or is it ability one or something anyway, but to the point I was like dude, like that, we got this. There's this multi-piece tool set we need to get, and that tool set it was like what. I remember this specifically, it was a 1056 piece full wrench ratchet. Everything said like air, like snap-on grade type stuff, and it was. I looked at a catalog, just online, right, just like a normal distributor 17 grand, which for a 1052 piece set of high-grade wrenches and the big ones too. I was like did you go? Try to buy those in singles off the shelf? You're paying at least 12 bucks a pop. So like that's not too bad right? Yeah, go in the catalog. That were required to order it from $38,000.

Speaker 1: 37:39

Yeah, where's that other half of go?

Speaker 3: 37:42

Right, right and that a good question. But I remember, and I remember walking into my shop and it's like look guys, here's the deal, right, you get a new divo every year. Your first question should be why is this one every different? Or why is this one, what gonna be any different? Great first question. That's not it. And if you even I gave you an answer, you should consider it bullshit until I prove it. And I will prove.

Speaker 3: 38:09

But that's like square one, second square somebody needs to teach me how to do this and how this process works, because my dudes are out there running around with Shit equipment and I was like why does it take? Like? We're out here, they're, they're welding and grinding. The boat was in the yard, right, so they're rebuilding an aircraft carrier, a sub. Imagine the amount of scrap that comes with that. And so they got these little ghostbusters Vacuums, the one with the little backpack thing, and they look like little ghostbusters run around. It's kind of funny.

Speaker 3: 38:39

But one of them busted and I was like Well, we have more over there. They're like no, those were made in China, which is different than them being Made, the parts made in China but assembled in the US. And I went to the civilians that run this on a speakerphone call and and tore them a new one, because the oh six that was backing me told me to do it. He's like we get a little vibes that like you're probably not afraid to piss people off, I said not even in the slightest if it means you're my dudes. And so I go in and the guy on the phone he's like and who is this? And I said I'm somebody in oh six cents when he needs to call out your fraud, wasting, abuse in case of emergency break glass break the glass.

Speaker 3: 39:23

And so he's like, do you need to be here? I was like, do you need to have it? Take eight months to get a vacuum and charge me triple the fucking price. And so you guys Can drag your heels for six months just to sign the paperwork, like if I cut off your paycheck it'd be fixed tomorrow. So you know, like, what's your fix for this one? Right, because this is the most powerful naval asset we have, and you and every other boomer sitting here like we're going to Worm with China. So like, well, help me, help you, dude bro.

Speaker 3: 39:52

And so we found an old line of accounting and this is getting into the boring side, but we found an old line of accounting and I was like we could use that. Yeah, I tried to get fired and it turns out I cut the ordering process from eight months down to three and a half. Nice for anything, not just the vacuum cleaners. And I still have the burning question in my mind why don't we have a government credit card that I'm required to carry around on cross countries? Why don't we have one of those to go order shit from Home Depot, who has the exact stuff we want?

Speaker 1: 40:21

another Favorite pepiva mine is the government credit card. Explain to me why we have a contract with a credit card company, to where we're making it mandatory for our sailors who?

Speaker 1: 40:33

don't even have a credit if I, if I got a racket up, okay, whatever I can, you know I'm in a financial position, I can make payment. But like You're forcing these people to get a credit card. And then this credit card it's the only credit card in the history of credit cards that does not build your credit it, but it will hurt your credit. You do not pay that bitch on time.

Speaker 3: 40:56

You are done So's well and you put paying in the hands of somebody else, they'll pay you 30 cents short and they're like and then three months later You'll get a notice after your beer shits, your credit's been screwed and all that jazz.

Speaker 1: 41:10

Give me the stupid man's experience from basically you being in the Navy to Interviewing applying how your first hundred.

Speaker 3: 41:19

So I was in a good position and a unique position Be in a t6 instructor. No, I started my journey in the airline apps thing. You know, this was back when, I think, united had just started announcing they were gonna start hiring military guys. Two years out, they were hurting so bad for bodies that they were talking like even like a year out for most places. Like I got hired by Southwest a year out, delta was nine months. You know I did around seven and it's basically the, the military.

Speaker 3: 41:48

You remember this from the, from the Navy, they always said don't let anybody be waiting on you. Right for like upgrading or whatever it was like. Never have somebody waiting on you. Same thing carries over on the outside world too. Man, you have all your ducks in a row that when that iron is hot, you get to strike because you, you had all your shit together. And so I was 15 months away from getting out of the Navy, pushing 16 Decided to go to a conference on a win with a buddy.

Speaker 3: 42:13

I was like I'm outside the window, man, but let's just go start meeting people making friends. That way when I am in the window, I'll be a familiar face. People are people. You just you make, make friends, and I got some really good advice From one of my old CO's, great dude, dave Mims. Awesome, awesome, awesome guy, great leader, good friend, great friend really.

Speaker 3: 42:33

And he was like dude, what you got to do, how do you be memorable in a pool of like 3000 people at any one of these conferences?

Speaker 3: 42:39

It's like go find ways to help out and just help, even if it's just going to the person and asking they what, what do you need help with? Which I'm kind of that kind of guy anyway. But In that setting Turns out like volunteering is huge, and again, it's volunteering. Your time is free, so you still paying the conference fees like everybody else, and but but I tell you, man, all people are people and networking is everything and I said there's never too soon to start growing your circle, right? So I Went to this conference on a whim, met the Spitfire team, was like these guys are awesome, sign on with them and just started helping them out. Turns out they're very well connected and good go getter people that all they want to do is give back to and All those relationships being built on trust are like hey, we need help, we need a hand with this, and the Spitfire teams like Travis get out of there, handle it.

Speaker 3: 43:26

It was like all right all day, and you that it starts with just being willing to devote a lot of your time to Showing these people that you are a good cultural fit, you want to be there, and not everybody has to do it, man. I know guys that would never went to a single conference. Put the app in, they got hired. Cool, good for them. I Don't. I like stacking the odds and every any way, shape or form I can, bro I you will always catch me stacking odds, so you're talking to a guy who's kind of ignorant when it comes to the aviation conferences I was asking about.

Speaker 3: 44:00

Yeah, there's aviation conferences and new ones are popping up all the time. It's it's like a normal conference that business people go to, right and so, for instance, like, let's see, the first one I went to is tpnx. This was the pilot network conference. It was basically a small conference in Orlando. They were pretty new, but Heavy hitters, directors of pilot hiring, all the airlines come and they set up a booth, all the like. Pivot was there for flight was there. All the interview prep and all the application resume review. People are there. It is a conference you go to that says I'm, I'm interested in working in this industry. I don't know anything about it. I or maybe you already do, but you know it's. It's a conference. It's like a comic con for for pilots right.

Speaker 3: 44:45

Okay, I like it. Now that was tpn. And then you go to obap right organization for black aerospace professionals, and it's like my one of my mentors, friends and my kind of my boss for Spitfire. He's a descendant of a Tuskegee airman, and so that conference badass.

Speaker 3: 45:01

Yeah, dude, there's, and you want to talk, just good, good, powerful people that made it, that aren't looking to blame anybody, they're just like no, go out, take it, take it by the horns and get it done. Don't take no for the answer. Where are you getting off the train? You go to these conferences to be around people that never got off the train. And you go to these conferences Because these are the people that are also recruiting you to get on the the, the new train, whether you're outside of military life or whatever. Great networking opportunities. Even when people aren't hiring, these conferences are still going and they're usually there.

Speaker 3: 45:30

So again, no is only an answer for the first time. If you take it, dude, no is not a real answer. No is the answer that that fought the people that aren't that 5% more motivated. They get off the train. There they're like alright, I tried. And then it's kind of like we have a saying that we use is to shout out. I think it's Nick Saban don't train till you get it right, trained till you can't get it wrong. Taking no for an answer is kind of falls into the former, if you will right.

Speaker 3: 45:59

It's just like yeah you're not looking at the problem, right. So that's, these, these conferences are awesome and you meet a lot of good people, you meet some good friends, but they're they're they're recruiting events, they're hiring events. But it's also events to recognize Certain demographics or subsets of professionals that, like oba, african Americans, right. Lpa, latino pilot Association, ngpa, national Gay Pilots Association, wai, women in Aviation International Right, what am I? The r-tag Rotary Transition Air Group, right, that's the military one. That's a big one. There's, there's new ones, a papa Sorry, pacific Asian Pilot Expo, something like that, but that's did. They're popping up all over and it's cool because they're all run by different subsets. You get that cultural vibe, but it's also, it's just that's what the industry's doing.

Speaker 3: 46:45

You heard me talk about kind of that diversity piece earlier and it's. It's not just a hey, look at how not racist we are as a company because we hired people that don't look like us. It's like no, look at, look at all these new lenses we have to tackle the problems that we've never faced, because have you ever seen a hiring wave look like this? And so that's why you go to these conferences, man. It's networking, it's meet and greet, it adds points to applications. You're about to say something good.

Speaker 1: 47:09

Yeah, I was just gonna ask real quick if you kind of have your finger on the pulse with that. I assume you do. Just give them what you do being. It's what? February 2024 now, how do you feel about the temperature of hiring and stuff like it is? It's not, I'm gonna get there.

Speaker 3: 47:25

I'm gonna get there. I want people tuned in just to because, like they got to understand, this is sometimes what it takes and actually it's a good time to even bring that in Delta specifically and I know because I work for them they slowed it down to 1100 this year. Right, last year was 2500, but if you look at the retirement Ages and the and the and the people that are coming up for it in the gaps, like dude, americans still gonna be hard-charging, united still hard-charging. Southwest kind of put the pause on it. They got a few things to figure out to kind of manage that volume. But I'm not the pro there and somebody from Southwest probably see this would be like no, we don't. But hey, man, I, when I interviewed there, it was fairly disorganized and it's great that I love them and I love their culture, I love their people.

Speaker 3: 48:08

But that was a massive influx and it kind of showed for, like I didn't have a ticket to go interview until three days Prior. I almost bought one myself, which would have been a great. Why Southwest? Right, like what do you want to be here? I bought my own ticket to come talk to you.

Speaker 3: 48:21

But no, so that these conferences are. They're good because the money still goes to these organizations and you need that because it's not just a bunch of Salty old white dudes at the helm these days. And that's good because we're also reaching to parts of the globe that we've never reached in the 121 world, and that's. It's cool to kind of connect the world that way it really is. And so there's a bunch of them. A year you can go to any one of them, but that that's, that's the start. Getting your foot in the door, right, does everybody need to do it? No, but again, it's small potatoes and they're kind of expensive, right, they like open op-up. I think was like 400 bucks just for the ticket, maybe even pushing 500, and then that's on airfare in the hotel you got to stay when you're there and the food and whatever expenses. But it is small potatoes, bro, small potatoes.

Speaker 3: 49:11

You see people trying to skimp like, oh, use this company for this and this company for this and like that's cool Do?

Speaker 3: 49:16

it if you want, like I Think Spitfire is great, but we were still like we're only three years old and we've buried the competition for the most part. But before we were there, there was still all these companies and and they all had their own niche. Right, and that's cool. But start your journey early. Start your journey outside of your hiring window, because it's gonna take a good solid month to get your application in order. Because you're gonna need college transcripts. They want to know your driving record and don't you dare lie about any of it. Right, and and that takes time high school transcripts I had to go get. It was like shit. I never even I don't think I've ever got them high school transcripts.

Speaker 3: 49:53

Because they wanted to know my high school GPA. Well, how do you find that? Yeah well, they got a. I was actually right, but they, they got it. You know, you, this? You have to dedicate time and Dedicating time is free. It can be tasking, but it's free and you're not taking time away from work to do it. Like you heard me say the on the last one, it's like if I give you, if I give you like three months to send ten emails, you're gonna take the three months.

Speaker 3: 50:18

Right if I give you two weeks, you're gonna take the two weeks. If I give you three days, you're gonna get it done. You're going to get it done. So consider this as Like you need to do this, you need to get this done. Devote the time. Don't rush anything. Don't have anybody wait on you.

Speaker 3: 50:33

Start early, right, especially now, like United Military Pilot Program, you MPP dude, they're taking dudes two years out. You could just check into your short tour and you're already like looking at the at the exit which. But, dude, they're making it easier for dudes to do this. So, regardless of whether or not the hiring numbers are going down, that doesn't mean you can't so when, that doesn't mean you can't put yourself in a position to still be above the competition. Right, and not just for being military civilians too. Because when COVID happened, right, and they lowered these requirements, like Delta, like got rid of college degree 500 turban and you're good, you can apply. Right. When you lower the quals, the applicant pool tends to double or triple or whatever. Right, you still have to figure out who you're bringing into interview.

Speaker 3: 51:24

Where do you start Every conference? When you go to scan a little QR code, when you meet with the company that ties to your application and the email you used in your app. So it's not some grand secret, but like, that's who I'm hiring, who really wants to be here? I don't know who just paid $400 and three nights worth of hotel just to come talk to me, right? So stack those odds right? Yes, it's going to cost money. It's money you're going to make back. You're talking a multi-million dollar career. You're trying to save $400 now. Like if I were to rewind the clock on this dude I just burned $400 at Home Depot.

Speaker 3: 51:57

Like come on, so, but I get it.

Speaker 1: 52:00

Yeah, yeah, that's, it's kind of how I I explain that to Nicole, because she didn't really grasp it when I explained to her basically like the buying for the ACP and how it's upwards of 10. She cringed a little bit but I laid out the numbers later on I was like look this plus retirement equals, we are as long as I do nothing stupid, we are set for life and our kids are taken care of, and that's all I care about.

Speaker 3: 52:27

I just want to be in a more comfortable position than I was growing up and you can look at the contracts like it's stupid, I get there's dudes making captain right now at 18 months, and like it is generous. To quote Tron Williams, who a God bless him if this is generational wealth. Do not like start early, budget early, stack those odds, get on that train now. So, excuse me, the that's that's kind of the conference piece, right. And then so I highly recommend and this is where I found a lot of my success Go volunteer at all of them.

Speaker 3: 53:04

You meet the same people. The recruiters are all the same, Like it's. It's like I'm the gun guy, right. So you look at all these whiz bang, parts and gadgets and everything and you start breaking it down. It's like dude, I called the oldest old timer at Remington that I could think of to start talking like MOAs and mills and stuff one day. This is way back when it's like 2015 and back back before the coup, Dougie, back before the coup. And he's like, oh yeah, the guy at Badge warden this is actually his name he married this person's sister. They're over there with loophole and you're like, oh, it's all, it's the same like 10 people.

Speaker 1: 53:39

I was gonna say, when you start getting in the circle, when they start talking about the circle small, who knows who it's no different.

Speaker 3: 53:44

When you fly planes. Look at how small the world gets, right. So the conference piece, dude, and the volunteering piece is what does that say to a recruiter? Not only are they dedicating their time to come talk to me, they're dedicating the time to a cause as well. And it's two birds with one stone. And oh, by the way, it's like the volunteers get taken care of, right, you're not.

Speaker 3: 54:04

People are always worried about it. Well, what if I miss my meet and greet? Like why are you even here then? Right, well, I wanted to volunteer, why? Well, I like doing that kind of stuff. Like, okay, let's start there. That's why you do it, to start. The positive side effect is they know that and you're gonna probably get first hack at the meet and greet. So, like it's dude, like take a break from putting lanyards on the thing. Like go talk to your dream shot. Right, that's it's people. It's real people, guys, it's real people. Right, we all know I were there. We're all there to support whoever's put on the conference and we're all there to get hired. And for me it's like, dude, I'm the lead volunteer at OBAP. I'm the lead volunteer and I'm a white dude. How does that happen?

Speaker 1: 54:51

You said it's not me I did?

Speaker 3: 54:52

Jared Dian Chon called me out. He's like how is our lead volunteer, the only non-melanated guy in the room, why he wants to give back? Oh, by the way, he's hired with Delta already. He needs nothing. I didn't need anything. But why I made really cool. I met cool people, hung out with a bunch of Tuskegee airmen types. Right, that's bad.

Speaker 1: 55:11

That's bad and, like you're telling me, I'm not going to go back next year.

Speaker 3: 55:14

I don't care if I have a job or not. These dude, these people are awesome, and all of them at every conference, like you meet cool people doing cool things and, if you like, being around that shit, which, if, again, if you're applying in this industry I don't know who you are or why you wouldn't want that but yeah, dude, like again, you learn a lot about people who have nothing, or how they treat people that have nothing to offer you. It's like how to toot the horn. I had nothing to gain at this point other than hanging out with cool people. And because I believe in that cause, right, because if I want to hire good people and really realistically, I have a vested interest in who Delta Airlines hires, because I'm probably going to have to fly with them.

Speaker 3: 55:53

It's the same reason I have a vested interest in going back to primary flight training, because I was like my crew is still out there, you're going to have to fly with them and I'm not sending them a shit bag. I'll bury you in the hills before I do that. So that's like that. Again, that's why these conferences are so cool, because it's like you're automatically around like-minded people who are willing to go that extra mile to succeed, and the companies all see that. And oh, by the way, you get to meet some legends. Man, you thought you maybe were a cool kid until you show up to those things and you're like man. They're not even on the spectrum of like who I would consider a badass. They're above the spectrum and they want to come hang out with you because they're like dude. Good for you for being here.

Speaker 1: 56:36

So isn't it cool when you meet a rock star and it's like they're just so nonchalant.

Speaker 3: 56:42

Yeah, Like it's even cooler when you meet a rock star and they think you're a rock star. Yeah, and I've never felt so terrible about myself when I was talking to these people and they're like, thank you for your service. I was like, dude, you were a Tuskegee airman in like I don't know if there's a soft way to say this, but like you were in a really, really shitty environment and you fought through it and still wanted to serve people that were stabbing you in the back on the daily. I came in when, like, I was the last class and it was the S to get hit with a fire hose right, and like now they're giving everybody milk and peanut butter and bread and everything. It's basically just like going to college for three months. If you're wondering why shit's gotten so soft, there you go, but like that's let's say like I had it good, Like I had it good, it like and yeah, I busted ass too, but it was not the level of hard for me as it would have been in those in those times. Certainly that's before we even bring the skin color into it and knowing what, what, what things were going like, what kind of shit was going on back then. And so when you talk to these people and they're like thanking you for being here and thanking you for your service, tell me about your time in. It's like, dude, the level of humility that comes with true legends. You are around that constantly at these conferences. So, even if you don't even want to get hired, go to a conference and just meet cool people. That'll put you, that'll like put you back on your perspective ladder and just be like I need to be doing more, right, yeah, yeah. And again, the positive side effect of all of this you're getting real FaceTime with the people that are the ones hiring for these positions. And so I can't say enough good things about volunteering.

Speaker 3: 58:24

Going over there Doesn't matter what it is, If the volunteer spots are full, show up Knows only an answer for the people who want to get off the train right away. Dude, I showed up without there was. They were max. I didn't even know I was going to make obab because I wasn't sure if I'd get the leave for it. Showed up. I said you need help with anything? They said no, we're good.

Speaker 3: 58:40

They said look, I came out here. I'm happy to just walk the booths, but I'm going to check in with you every 20 minutes because I'm looking around and I see there's chairs still stacked, there's tables that got to be laid out. I know there's a gala going on, because I got the schedule right here and the room doesn't look ready. What can I do? And they said okay, yeah, we don't really have a group for that. I said what, I'll put it together and see him. What do you need done? I said all right, we need the trophies lined up here, we need these curtains to be set up over here, we need these tables there. But like you're not here to stack tables and chairs, I said I'm here to do whatever I got to do to make sure this thing goes off smoothly, because if it goes smoothly for you, it goes smoothly for me, right? But also I want to help. I like to do that. That's a service mentality. That's why we're all here. So I don't care if I'm stacked.

Speaker 3: 59:26

I used to dig fucking holes for a living dude. I was laying bricks with 40-year-old degenerates. You don't think I'll stack some chairs, but again, why would they know that? So you just got to go in there and communicate it, Even if there's not a spot open. Go volunteer some of your time, man, Be persistent, Watch things unfold for you, but don't go in there just trying to get them to unfold for you. Go in there to meet some cool fucking people because, true story, anybody that's made it has some tips and tricks.

Speaker 3: 59:53

Also, Even if you don't get hired at that conference, whatever, you're still around people that are like, hey, this is where I screwed it up. Right, Talk about good instructors, this is where I screwed it up. Or this is what I found success in. Or, hey, let me introduce you to this person over here. That's when you're like, oh shit, you're the director of pilot hiring and they're like cool, what are you doing here? I was like, I don't know, they needed stuff set up and I just offered and they said you know, that's really cool, you can use people like that. Give me your resume. That's how shit goes down, Dude 100%, so I am sorry to go ahead All you I've been talking about.

Speaker 1: 1:00:25

No, I was just going to say I can only relate to that on like a smaller scale. But it reminds me of the guy I told you about earlier, who coined the phrase and the whole saying about the success train. He would take me out For instance. I went to Winky Red's birthday party it was probably about 10 years back and some club in Tampa. He would show me the ropes. He would point me at these people, the people in the crowds be like look man. He's like these are ballers on a budget. They're here. They're here because they want something, not because they want to be here. They're here because they want something and they're trying to roll with the big dogs, but they don't got the budget of the big dogs, so they're going to tap out eventually. He's like you need to stay humble. You need to remember where you're from in as long as you're a normal person and you keep your nose down and you grind. He's like you get there. Wink didn't get there overnight, or Tarver didn't get there overnight, you had to work for it.

Speaker 1: 1:01:22

It's the same thing Once again. That rings volumes to me. But it just kind of got me thinking about it when you were talking about going to these conferences and there's some people. Obviously you're going there because you have a motivation to do something. I get it totally. But once again it's that extra 5%, or you willing to put in that 5% right, no, 100%.

Speaker 3: 1:01:43

And I would say, like going to these conferences, dude is taking that baller on a budget and fast-tracking them towards big dog territory, right under the wing of the big dogs.

Speaker 1: 1:01:56

And yeah, if that's so fair. I mean we all want to get there.

Speaker 3: 1:01:58

Nothing I say is a representation of the companies I work for. I just like dude, I know it's, I know it works, and what works is being able to volunteer time, staying humble, like you talked about. Take note for the answer the first time. Keep your nose to the grindstone. Help out when you can Find you a good circle, find people that are smarter than you, and go say what am I missing? Right, get your app in. Get your app in, but do it well, right, don't have a period or a comma out of place, because the first thing you have to beat for any of these app systems is the algorithm that looks for grammatical errors.

Speaker 3: 1:02:31

If I just tripled my application pool, who am I hiring? Starting with people that go to the conferences and again, I don't know if this is like their actual process. I do know that nobody gets an interview. If their app is screwed up in the system, they get fixed at emails. Now, if they really like your app, delta will send you an email. It just says like hey, we need you to fix this and then then you'll. You'll be in the queue because the computer caught something stupid like periods out of place, comms out of place.

Speaker 1: 1:02:59

I'm serious Again that's a better re-app.

Speaker 3: 1:03:02

My grammar attention to detail is a thing, right. Who do you want to hire? Who do you want to hire to fly around 200 sons and daughters in the back of a pressurized metal tube for eight hours, like I want somebody who's got attention to detail?

Speaker 3: 1:03:14

right, who's got to land that thing? And zero, like fucking zero, zero. So you got to beat the algorithm first, right? So app review, resume review, any way to stack those odds, like that's the first thing you got to beat. So take your time when you do your app, do it right, get it reviewed yes, it costs money. Yes, suck it up. Sorry, you want to be here. Go find somebody smarter than you IE, app and resume review and say what did I miss? You'll start to see a theme here and then that's that. Get your app in.

Speaker 3: 1:03:45

Go to these conferences, add points to that app, make face, not make face. Make connections, make relationships, get some face time, volunteer your time and if it doesn't go great for you right off the bat, get off the train if you want to, but I got to just going to break some hearts, but it doesn't go great for a lot of people right off the bat. Here's a great example we got a girl we just we're about to hire as a coach who got thanks but no thanks. Put in like 89 webinars as a as someone, a student. By the end of it I was like Sid, you could be coaching this man, you could be coaching this, you're ready. And she's. She's nervous and scared, like she should be, because she got thanks, but no thanks from this person. Thanks for Delta and Southwest. They told her come back for more time. American would even talk to her and said you don't have the time, but she had a United interview and the pilot at the end of her interview the pilots usually don't reach out, it's usually the HR people to reach out the pilot called her directly and said I want you to know that you had the lowest hours of any of the applicants we interviewed today, which is the reason Delta told her no and the reason American told her no. And it's just it. They, they, they know what they like to see. Okay, cool, that's not my call, that's their call, but they.

Speaker 3: 1:04:55

The pilot told him he had the lowest hours of anybody we interviewed today and I told the HR lady before you came in. I said she's going to have to knock this out of the park if she wants it. And she went in there and took him to church. Bro, I slaughtered it and if you take no for an answer, don't slaughter it. Get off the train, right. It doesn't go great for a lot of people right off the bat, but the people that put in that work. Keep your nose to the grindstone, stay home, but work hard. It sounds cheesy to say, but like any great, any great, anybody that's made it, anybody that's in the position that you want to be in At some point, if you were to sit down and have a beer with him, what are the keys to success? If those words don't come out of their mouth, I will give you my next year's paycheck, right.

Speaker 3: 1:05:40

So no, I I that's, that's what it takes, man. And I had a buddy. I was like what'd you think of the conference? He's? Like it was kind of underwhelming. It was really hard to get a meet and greet. I said, good, pay your dues, put your time in. Did you take no for an answer? Did you go back there? I said, go back, go back. Let's talk to this person and say I want to be here. This is my only application. I'll sit outside and wait if you want. I just want 10 minutes to talk to you and pick your brain about the company Guess who got a meet and greet later that day. Right, go go. That's, that's just go make. Make some friends, man. Meet some people, be persistent. Stay on the train. Yeah, keep your nose down, do your job.

Speaker 1: 1:06:25

Work, it's going to take work Right.

Speaker 3: 1:06:30

So yeah, that's, that covers conferences and apps, and I can't stress enough Start early. Some people say year out, some say year and a half. I started 16 months out. I went to my first conference. I was working on the app prior to that. I say 18 months pretty good starting point to start getting all your ducks in a row.

Speaker 3: 1:06:46

Okay, why? Because you get it done and you're like well, I'm still two months away from getting hired. You're like congrats, you ain't got shit to do, but hit update once a week. Then you're better off than most. Why are you complaining?

Speaker 3: 1:06:59

So you will not catch me giving sympathy for people who don't put in the time when they have the time or people who don't put in the time when they can make the time. It's the email philosophy, dude. How bad do you want it? If I told you I'll give you $5 million if you can have this shit done in three days, you'll find a way to get it done. Yes, you'll find a way, right, and you'll probably include some other people along the way to say help me, I need help. So if you're not doing that, you're wrong. Right, and that's kind of my message to everybody here Start early, work hard, grow your team right. Start going to these conferences, get them early. The schedules are released a year out, so email the person immediately and say I want to volunteer with you. They say cool, it doesn't open for like six months. Cool, remember my name? I'll talk to you again here two or three months and then they're in five months or the five month mark. Right, and that's how you do it. Set a reminder in your phone.

Speaker 1: 1:08:01

You're blowing my mind, man, because I would have never thought in a million years that things like this would go into the game Once again just to show my ignorance. I totally thought it was just going to be hey, I'm going to go get my ATP, I'm going to go throw my application once a year out, and hopefully get an interview, like you're blowing my mind on just how big the game is Like when it comes to this and here's the deal dude, the game portion of it.

Speaker 3: 1:08:26

It's not that big.

Speaker 3: 1:08:28

Sorry, I call it a game, but I just mean like the process, but you bring up a great point that I want to touch on is like people are sitting there is like, well, if I have to do all this stuff and I'm not really myself it's like, is this something I really want to do? Like I'm just going to say, yes, it is, but if you don't want to put in the work, then I don't want you sitting in the seat next to me. But that's, that's, that's part A. Part B is you talk about the game? The game is, is a game of persistence, that's all. It is Right.

Speaker 3: 1:09:01

But for you it's like I didn't realize all this stuff went into it. It's all just people. It's networking, right. It's an industry that we're not. We're in because we also fly up there, but we're not in because it's a completely different set of rules, regs and operating in circles. Really, yeah, but there are people out there that don't like the whole pay to play aspect and I don't blame you, but how bad do you want it? You know what I mean, and that's we. It's going to be like I said, it's going to be a theme and you said something that I was trying to try to get back on. You can edit this out when I'm thinking, but it might come back to me. But yeah, to your point, the didn't realize how deep the rabbit hole runs Again.

Speaker 3: 1:09:44

I don't want to put some like kind of false light on it and say, like you have to do all of this. I just highly recommend you do, because you have nothing to lose. There is no downside, Even if it doesn't go your way. You're going to have learned something new, You're going to have met some really, really cool people, gotten way farther in the industry than you otherwise would have. Because, like, again, the water cooler talks to the directors of management and pilot hiring and you're like, oh, they're normal people too, Talking to that kind of pay to play aspect. So a lot of people and I'd be lying if I said I didn't do this too. But, like, if I became a member of all these organizations because I figured if I was going to go to their conference and the membership fees are cheap, right, they're again pennies in terms of the grand scheme, or it's 50 bucks, 100 bucks, whatever I feel like it's more meaningful. If you volunteer, if you're going to dedicate your time, that's cool. If you have the money to become a member, I would also do that too. When you talk about your application, every application has got a spot for some level of affiliations and that was kind of the game in the past, and even it is now, people like the hey, I had bought a membership. I put it on my resume or my application that says oh yeah, I'm affiliated with OVAP, Women in Aviation, NGPA, LPA, PAPA, TPN, Affiliated with all of these and you'll get into the interview and you'll get this question what have you done with these companies or these organizations other than just buy a membership? And you and right, who's getting the deer in the headlights looks right, Well, well, nothing, I just and be like no, you wanted points on your app. Right, when you volunteer your time, you get an answer to that question. When you, when you, when you, just when you're proactive and you get out in front and say I want to help, I like what we're doing here, but you better really actually like what they're doing there, Because if you say that and then show up like and and you just kind of a negative stance the whole time, like anybody want to be around you, so but again, if you, if you're not acting like you're owed anything, and you go in there and say they say, hey, what have you done with Like, tell, to ask me it's like I see you put OVAP on your, your application here. What have you done with them? Be like, actually really glad you asked that I originally went there because I didn't know much about the industry, the conference at the time.

Speaker 3: 1:12:09

I was just getting into it and it happened to be August and I had a bunch of leave post COVID and I was like I'm going to go start throwing my name in the hat for this stuff. See, see what this is all about. Met the coolest people I've ever met in my life and there was no volunteer spots. And so I told him the story and I was like I just I said like I'll stack chairs. I used to lay bricks, stack chairs, I'll do whatever you need. I just I think I'm happy to be here and I want to make the trip worth it. Let me, let me just do something productive other than going back to my hotel room.

Speaker 3: 1:12:38

And then by the end of that conference they said you will be the lead volunteer here next year. We're not asking you, we're telling you, basically. And I was like, oh, you don't say no when these, these caliber of people are asking for your help and like, again, does anybody care? It's like you're oh, this is actually a great point. And people probably have this question on their mind and I had the same one. It's obap. I felt dirty going as a white dude. That conference is not about me. Why would I go and try to make it about me? That's I understand. That's a logical conclusion. That is not at all what's going on here, Because half the people that still go to women and aviation are dudes. Half people that go to obap or white, half people that go to LPA aren't Latino, Like so the everybody knows. If you're paying the money for the conference ticket, you're supporting the organization. Cool Welcome, Come on, Come on Right.

Speaker 1: 1:13:33

If you paid, if you paid your ticket, come on in.

Speaker 3: 1:13:35

Right.

Speaker 1: 1:13:36

I was going to. I was actually going to ask, I know I should have brought that up first.

Speaker 3: 1:13:39

So don't look at the titles of the conference and think you're not welcome because you don't fit that demographic. We talked about the benefits of diversity going far beyond what you look like. So by that right, it would be pretty shitty for them to be like, no, you can't come in, even though we're going to go over here and preach diversity. No, that wouldn't follow and it doesn't follow and it's like nobody cares, right, dude? I've never walked into a room and been like this. Is it took me a minute at obap to be like, wait a minute, like nobody's looked at me weird, since I've been here, you know what I mean. And so why? Because they're just happier. They're supporting the, supporting the organization, taking that extra 5%, putting that in, trying to go and say, put your name in the hat, right, especially if you're on the volunteer side, like it's good. And so every year, until I die probably, I'm on the hook to go back and help Earl and Miss T run that conference and I love it, nice, and I love it. And so I got to tell Delta's like, yeah, that's the reason I had this interview pushed from August to September was because I was packing up a U-Haul moving from Norfolk to Florida, house hunting, signing off the reserves. And oh, by the way, I got to lead all the volunteers at obap and they're like, oh, so you're like you do things with them. I said all the time I'll get Miss T on the horn right now, right. And I was like, would that have ever happened? And I'm not, I'm not doing this to toot the horn, I'm just saying like it. Would that have ever happened if I showed up and said, hey, you guys need anything? And they said Nope, and I said, okay, see you later. That would not have happened. So points for being persistent, become a member.

Speaker 3: 1:15:09

I recommend becoming a member of the conferences you go to. It's easier to advocate for you from an interview prep side of the house, but B it kind of gets you in the window to to volunteer, to say and if they're like, hey, we're full, I say, hey, look, I'm a member of that school, that's all right, but I'll just check in anyway with you, I'm sure I'll find something to do. And by day one and a half of the conference, when everybody's smoked and talked out and everything, they're like you know what? Man? Here's your volunteer shirt.

Speaker 3: 1:15:31

You've been running around this whole time You're. You're one of us now and that's what it's about, man. You're around good people doing good things, earning your keep, but staying humble, just doing your job, hoping it works out for you and if it doesn't, that's all right. You got some cool experiences and you made some connections. Try again the next time. Don't take no for an answer. Don't get off the train Like so that that is my time in the military to my time at Delta and just and Delta's been great, by the way. I can't say enough good things, but it's amazing how the civilian side works for a company that can make five billion and a quarter. It's pretty sweet how they treat their people.

Speaker 1: 1:16:08

Talk to me on how the interview went, if you can kind of give me an idea If I was rando pilot a while in there what do I have?

Speaker 3: 1:16:15

to expect. You can expect that you got to think this is an interview, right? People walk in there and this is what I love about Spitfire. I was like we don't tell you what to say. But how do you tell somebody in 45 minutes to an hour that you are a good cultural fit? You are giving your authentic self right now and you are. You are who they want to hire. It's easy to give the lip service, so I would. This is I'm going to tarantino this for you.

Speaker 3: 1:16:43

If your answers don't corroborate right At a 45 minute interview, you might get I don't know you do the math, but like 12, 15 questions that I could be around three to five minutes for your response time somewhere in there. It doesn't. It's not like a golden rule, though. It's just like that's usually what it takes to get the good full, full body to answer. But if what you said in question number two completely disagrees with what you said in question number 15, you've kind of just kicked the authenticity piece in the groin. You know what I mean.

Speaker 3: 1:17:13

So what do I tell people to expect? Go in there and be yourself, because you don't want to work for a company that's not a good cultural fit for you, or you're going to put in five years and then you're going to really start hating it and you burn five years in seniority on what should be a 30 year career plus and you're like, well, I'm kind of super sad now that I sold myself as a different person to get this job. Like, yeah, right, so be yourself. And it's easy to say it's okay to be nervous. They know that. One thing I love about how Delta does it and all the other companies kind of did this too they're going to formulate some of these questions based on your application, based on your experiences. So, the more conversational you can make it, find common ground with these people. Right, because you have it. People have more in common than they do differently, right, but find that common ground. Be yourself. Tell your stories authentically. Don't say fuck, but Uncle Nutt, I'll shout out Nick Viaga. Don't fucking say it. Don't say fuck, but that's kind of what you can expect. It should be a very laid back and relaxed experience, because here's the deal you don't get that interview If you didn't already kind of jump through all the hoops they needed you to jump through, right?

Speaker 3: 1:18:27

It's like you got your flight time, you did it right, right, and everybody's got failures on the record here or there. They don't care about your failures. I just want to know can you learn from it? Can you help somebody not screw it up? Why are you humble enough to admit you screwed up? It's okay, nobody cares. But those kind of things like that's what you can expect. Just be yourself, be humble. Just tell your stories like you've been a hardworking person.

Speaker 3: 1:18:52

Because if you're in that interview room, you already have everything they want. They have your app, they have your resume, they have everything about you that they wanted to know from the paper For Delta. It's like shit, dude. You did their skills test right. First you beat the computer algorithm and then you probably went to some conferences. Then you passed their skills test and you finally get to the interview. You're like what else do you want, man? And they're like great question. And they actually tell you like I don't want to.

Speaker 3: 1:19:19

I'm not supposed to talk about the interview process for them, but I will tell you what this gentleman told us when we got there. He just said look, it's just a chance to get to know you. And why was that believable? Because look what you did to get there and every airline is going to be the same way. Look what you did.

Speaker 3: 1:19:37

Most guys at least 10 years in the military and for the civilian side, man, they were grinding even harder at the regionals, private charters, cargo. Whatever you put in the time, you put in the work, they know that. Go in there and just let them into your circle, because this is the first time outside of like a conference, meet and greet, you get to sit down for an hour, unbutton your jacket and just be like. These are the conversations I've been wanting to have with you guys the whole time, and here it is. So that's what to expect. There is no secret sauce here. Be yourself, be authentic. If you really want, like how to answer these questions, sign up a Spitfire, give me a call, we'll chat, but there you go. I like the talk.

Speaker 3: 1:20:12

But really I mean, that's, that's it. Because in the interview game everybody's like, well, I've heard all these. Why is there prep if there's not a game behind it? Good question, the game behind it is how do you in three to five minutes, without rambling with, without going off topic whatever truthfully answer their question and the question behind the question In line with this company's core values that prove that. Because you're trying to prove cultural fit here, without lying, because you're going to go in there.

Speaker 3: 1:20:41

If you got, they know you have multiple interviews, multiple job offers, but at some point you had to convince every one of those people that they were your first choice. How'd you do that, right? Well, you don't lie to them, but you can go in there and tell them what you love about the company and how it jives with you. And how do you do that? You prove it. You tell me a story Right and that's and that. And if it's a story, that's yours and nobody else can use it because it was your story. Like boom, you already got the authentic authenticity piece down, because I know that wasn't a scripted answer. Right, like this, they didn't know the question was coming, and like that's. That's where you kind of get into the prep game of where people, especially I see I get a lot of CO's and stuff that come through my course commanding officers 05, 06 is even and I take them to school sometimes and they're like, damn, I thought I was really good at talking to people. I'm like you're not the one that you are, but what you think is important and what an HR company sees in your answers can be two very different things. And so people ask well, how do you not tell them what to say? That? And I said you're not telling them what to say. You just have to understand there's elements that you did not include that happened that actually carry more weight than these things that you did include. That happened. That nobody really cares, right, I don't care that. I mean it's kind of like for air metal types or whatever it's like. I don't care that you got an air metal, I care why it means more to you than the other metals you have, right, and more often than not it's a team effort type thing. That shows this individual likes team effort, right, that shows you can work well as part of a team.

Speaker 3: 1:22:11

To get an air metal as part of a team, you had to be approachable. You had to have good CRM. You've answered all of those questions, especially by including the little bit of a why there, and it didn't matter at all of the how you had to overcome these tremendous odds to do it. I want to know how did you grow your team to do it? Because you didn't do it alone. Nobody does so, and even if it was a solo mission, single seed, f 15s, whatever F 22 guys come through all the time, 35s even doesn't matter, there's a. Well, I don't know. Our CRM looks different. It's a good. Tell me about it, it should.

Speaker 3: 1:22:44

I think your job is even harder now because where I had everybody in my, in my metal tube, you've got a radio like you can only talk on one radio at a time and you've got to coordinate all these people. And then you got your wingman and your ship and, depending on where you are, it's like dude. Crm is huge, but you know to say like nobody does it alone, you don't, because that's a great time to start bringing in some mentors and stuff too. How'd you get there? How did you get to the point where you did succeed on your own in this mission? You didn't get there by yourself, though those little things that again they happened. I'm not telling you what to say. Those things happened and they meant something, and if I ask you to tell me about a random time and that that's the situation that came to your brain, it had an impact on you. I want to know where that impact came from. And so do they, because that's who you are at the core.

Speaker 3: 1:23:32

I'm very like. I'm not interested in who people are at their best. I don't care who you are on your best day. I want to know who I'm dealing with on their worst. I want to know who's I'm dealing with on the on day six of a six day trip and it's the last leg and everybody's tired. You're pushing crew day and you're a little bit here, just want to get home. Are you going to stop? And, and you know, fix that leak, fix that nav light, whatever. Are you going to do the right thing? That's who I'm interested in, and so those are the elements that people often overlook because of what it suggests. Right, and this is.

Speaker 3: 1:24:04

I'm giving a little just like a little sample taster here, but that's what we do, because you have those experiences, or you wouldn't even got to call to interview. How do you tell it and what elements are you missing and what are you including that? Maybe it's like, hey, it actually doesn't say a whole lot about you, and so that's that's why this whole authenticity thing, even from a coaching side of this side of the house, is huge, and that's how we I mean we don't get in trouble. They Delta, united, southwest they all love us. Why? Because I didn't send people in there telling what to say. I sent people in there well prepared to go tell their story clearly, concisely and authentically, based on their experiences, which is exactly what the interviewers want you to do. They just don't want to listen to you ramble for nine minutes, like I'm doing right now. So, yeah, there you go.

Speaker 1: 1:24:52

Yeah, I appreciate it. That's cool and I appreciate the explanation because before I came back in the Navy I've always prided myself on being a pretty good interviewer, and not to my own horn, but if I threw an application in and if I got to the interview I knew game set match at that point because I could go in and talk to somebody. But it's, it's interesting to hear what. Because each, like you said, each airline has a different culture and it just sounds like, basically, just I want to say be yourself, yeah, be yourself and be honest and again I mean, it's really what it comes down to this one more time.

Speaker 3: 1:25:27

How do you convince them that they're your first choice, right? Or in your top of your pack, right? Most people only apply to a few places but, like those are, there's hundreds of outfits out there. How do you go in there and convince them that you're a good cultural fit, right? Maybe they're not your first choice, whatever. If you're a good cultural fit, they might watch you anyway. They probably do, in fact.

Speaker 3: 1:25:49

So you know what the company's values, right? Everybody's got core values and a mission statement. Who actually follows them, believe it or not, a lot of these majors kind of do. But, all that being said, so like I might tell the same story to one airline that I would tell to another airline. And this is. These are things, things you pick up along the way Turns out character traits, crm, work, hardness, like that go factor.

Speaker 3: 1:26:15

We talked about staying on that train, not taking no persistence, right? A lot of those fall into some core value elements that these companies value. So why don't you? We talked about finding the elements of your story that are there that maybe you're like. Well, do I include that? Do I include this? I tried to include all of it and it was 12 minutes long, right? Okay, let's focus on the stuff. That is very true, that's also in that 12 minutes you just told me. But let's focus on the stuff that Delta seems to value or United seems to value or American seems to value Like why don't you model it around that what that company's culture is. If you're truly a good cultural fit, I would emphasize those elements of your story Because it proves you're a good cultural fit. Right, absolutely.

Speaker 3: 1:27:02

Example, if one of my core values was, let's just say, I'm just going to make some up here. Let's just say, like persistence, shoot, this is hard. I'm just going to use some real ones, like, let's just say, persistence, integrity, warrior spirit right, we're just mixing a couple in there together, right. And I say, tell me about a time this, whatever, right. And it would be who view?

Speaker 3: 1:27:26

If I'm talking to the company that values persistence and in any given story, did we flew P threes man, you name the flight. How much time you got persistence, integrity, warrior spirit every single day, all day, every day. But Maybe this company values persistence a little bit more than they value this one over here, because this other company is the warrior spirit one. I would probably focus more on the side of the house that deals with me finding a way using CRM, growing the team right, finding a way. That said, I didn't quit when I hit my first hurdle. People go in there and drop core values like they're the best, like, like they just like. Congrats you and Google know right, like you use the Google machine, that doesn't Make you a good fit.

Speaker 1: 1:28:16

Congrats.

Speaker 3: 1:28:16

So you can recite what you read off the but understand that same story fulfills all the cultural core values of any of these companies. But, like, who's the one you want to go talk to? And that's that, that's what we do and, realistically, kind of keeping it relatively on track here. That's what the conferences are for too, because you can go talk all of these same experiences and just know that, whoever you're going to talk to you to do a little research, but like, what kind of stuff do they value? If you're a shoe in for a company that values persistence and you're over there talking about integrity, is that a good thing? Yes, are you a great dude? Sure, are you a great fit? Maybe not. Here's a question for you.

Speaker 1: 1:28:54

How do you find out? I mean, is it just literally a Google search? But how do you find out what these companies core?

Speaker 3: 1:29:00

research are like Talk to people in it, you're never more than one person away from somebody like that. That's the. What are they called? The law of connection or something like that? Yeah, and in a business where we literally fly 500 miles an hour from point A to point B, the world gets small. Bro, you're one, and if you're, if you're one of those introverted types we talked about, you can Google it. They do publish these things on the company website, but I'm here to tell you right now you walk in and my stock price, you and everybody else, because they can Google it. You walk in and you have personal experiences that you can tell me a story about. That outlines that you have what we're looking for in terms of core values. Now we got some right. Also, I'm not I don't want to give away all the trade secrets here on the podcast, but but when you talk about what to expect from the interview, that's what to expect, but, more importantly, that's why you can expect it right. I love the why.

Speaker 1: 1:29:57

That's perfect. That's perfect, man, I appreciate it. And yeah, obviously I know I'll be coming over to see you guys here in about a year or two, but definitely it's a good reach out for anybody else who's interested, who's going to be jumping off here sooner than me. So we'll kind of start to wrap this up now. But, yeah, we appreciate all your talk, travis. Appreciate everything you had to say today. Appreciate everything you brought to the table with.

Speaker 1: 1:30:18

This Definitely was educational for me. Like I said earlier, I didn't realize there was that much involved in it and obviously it's how much you want to put in. That's what sounds like at the end of the day. But before we go, I'm going to give you a chance to win your five dollars back. I want to let you pick one notorious BIG song. I'll give you one minute to pick a song and if I can't get the first to set a lyrics out to it, then I'll give you five bucks back. Next time you come to Jackson, we record again and if not, then double down. That'll be it. It'll be a beer for you.

Speaker 3: 1:30:49

All right, give me 20 seconds.

Speaker 1: 1:30:52

All right.

Speaker 3: 1:30:53

You go 20 seconds. All right, and you have to do the first. Where in the lyrics are you supposed to start?

Speaker 1: 1:31:05

Yeah, I can start at the first. I don't know. Gentlemen Lee will do 30 seconds, 40 seconds, just get me through it.

Speaker 3: 1:31:11

All right Circa 1994. Unbelievable, the notorious BIG Fuck.

Speaker 1: 1:31:24

Jesus, you fucking got me. I just heard this goddamn song. I was just listening to it. That's the album oh man. Yeah, I know I don't, so I don't remember the.

Speaker 3: 1:31:35

I don't remember the beginning of it, but the live is one represent BK To the fullest Gats I pull it up, oh fuck.

Speaker 1: 1:31:45

Yeah, god damn it, you got me dude Like it took 11 years to win this five dollars back.

Speaker 3: 1:31:52

Yes, yes, yes. Yes, yes.

Speaker 1: 1:31:55

But hey, dude, thank you very much, man. I really appreciate you coming on.

Speaker 1: 1:32:00

And yeah we'll wrap this up now. Once again, everybody, thank you very much for listening. We won about two hours but I'm probably going to cut this down, so probably be about an hour and some change by the time you guys listen. But once again, please go leave a five star review at Apple podcast. I will have in the show notes all the socials, plus I will have some links to Spitfire and give you guys some links over to Travis in case you want to get in touch their Travis gang thing in closing man.

Speaker 3: 1:32:27

Yeah, man, just thanks for having me. This is cool, it's good to catch up, and it's good to catch up for this reason. This is like I know people thinking it's a new podcast like you were talking about at the beginning. It's kind of everybody's, everybody's got podcast stuff now but it's like why did this one matter? It's like, dude, you're talking about people that have been there, done it and are still doing it and and how to continue to be successful, and it's just involves you. You're going into unfamiliar territory. Grow your team, how do you do it? Tune in man that we just talked about for two hours. But I gave you a taste. I gave you grassroots level Spitfire Elite knowledge.

Speaker 3: 1:33:01

But, that master's level course that you're signing up for You're with us for life, by the way. So, spitfireleapcom, you're with us till you get the job you want, but we currently we're sitting at 96 97% track record on you getting your dream job first. First hack we make millionaires in baseball.

Speaker 1: 1:33:18

Wow.

Speaker 3: 1:33:18

So, but more than that, it's a bunch of dudes that just want to give back and see you do well because we made it. We fucked up. Let's help you not do what we did and do it better. That's what it's about. It's the same reason we're talking.

Speaker 1: 1:33:30

I love that slogan right there. We did it, we fucked up, so let's make sure you don't. That's solid brother. That's all right, man. Thank you very much, dude. I appreciate it. Have a good night, guys, peace. See ya, he insisted that we play some jazz.

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