Caryn: Welcome back to the Rise, Shine and Redefine podcast. I'm here with Ms. Katie Sanger who is not only become a really good friend of mine who I met in the coaching program that we're in, she's also just such a beautiful soul, a beautiful friend, and just a beautiful person. She's a therapeutic life coach and hypnotherapist who specializes in utilizing astrology, and it's a tool within her private practice. She is passionate about helping women align with the most authentic version of themselves by taking an integrated and holistic mind-body-spirit approach. She's also a mom of a 22-month-year-old, no, 22-month-old baby, and also the complete love of her life. Welcome, Katie. I am so excited to have you on the show today. And I believe we are going to do a deep dive into astrology, which I think with the retrograde and the solar eclipse and all of this energy moving, this is a spot on topic for us to talk about today. So I cannot wait. If you would share a little bit about yourself and a little bit about your story, we would love to hear.
Katie: Oh, thank you so much, Karen. That was such a beautiful intro. And I just want to say I absolutely reciprocate and adore you. And I'm so grateful to be here and value our friendship. And I'm grateful we met through our coaching program. So yeah, so happy to be here. I You know, I've been a very spiritual person from a young age, very intuitive, very sensitive. And really I feel things became pivotal for me around, but back in around, back around 2012, I was suffering from addiction and I was really struggling in my life. And I knew that if I didn't, have some sort of shift, it wasn't going to turn out well for me. And something shifted, something happened. And I had a spiritual awakening. And it was right around this time that I came into a deeper sense of and knowing that there was more out there for me, that I had a purpose, that I was meant to be of service in the world. And it's so interesting, you know, when you make that decision or you have that shift, the universe, God, whatever, it meets you. And things started to align for me and it was painful. It wasn't easy. You know, transformation is not easy. It's not rainbows and butterflies. You know, the spiritual journey is it's dark and it's coming into contact with all facets, the dark, the light and integrating that. So that was the beginning of me really starting to do that work. And in that process, I actually found astrology. And I had always followed astrology in the sense of more like pop astrology, you know, where we saw it, you know, sun sign horoscopes in magazines or sun sign horoscopes in the newspaper.
Caryn: But I had never been – What's a sun sign horoscope? What does that mean?
Katie: So, you know, you would see like, you know, before we had all the access to social media, you know, our media prior to that was really like newspapers and magazines. And I guess you could say television too. But it would be like something that was like more pop astrology. It would just be like the 12 zodiac signs and what their predictions were for the day.
Caryn: So it's the one that's like based on your birthday. So like based on your birthday and you see it in a magazine, that's the sun sign. Yeah, exactly. That's the sun sign of astrology. I just want to be clear what, because, you know, I don't, I don't know astrology very well. So I just want to understand. Okay. So sun sign is like pretty much your birthday and then what you see in the magazine.
Katie: Yeah, so like, yeah, and now we're starting to actually see astrologers do much more in-depth and actually more accurate readings because I would say, you know, sun sign astrology is cool, but it's a lot more general because you have a lot of people that are born on the same day as you, right? But really, and we'll dive into this, but when we're looking at a birth chart, you actually want to look at your rising sign, which again, I don't want to like jump ahead, but that's really where you want to be predicting Not predicting, but you want to be looking at everything through that lens within your birth chart, because that's going to be a lot more accurate. That's getting down to the minute that you were born. So it's very personal. And it's really the guide to your birth chart. That's the entry point to your birth chart. That's where you start. And I didn't know that. And it wasn't until this person came into my life and said, hey, do you want to look at your birth chart? Have you ever seen your birth chart? And I was like, what is that? Oh my gosh, what is that? he showed it to me and it was like, I had this stroke of insight. It was like this magical, I don't know if you've ever seen your birth chart, but it's like this big wheel and it's got all these shapes, you know, and it looks like a pizza pie and there's all these different planets and glyphs and symbols and then aspects that, you know, lines that show between each of them. And I saw it and it was just like the most magical thing I'd ever seen. And when I did a brief interpretation of it immediately, I was like, this makes more sense. You know, this is, This is what I've been feeling so much about myself, but it hasn't been validated in a lot of ways. And it was like this coming home, like, oh, all that depth I feel or all that sensitivity I feel. Because classically, I'm a Libra Sun. I know you are too. And reading Libra Sun astrology, Libras are a certain way. They're an air sign and they're very flirty and cerebral and they're all about partnership and all those things are true about me. They're very social. But I also have a lot of water in my chart. I have a lot of Scorpio in my chart. So nothing was validating the depth that I feel or the emotions that I feel or the intensity, the way I feel really intensely. And so the first time I saw a birth chart, it validated that. It was like, Oh no, you're who you're meant to be. And you need to lean into that. And so once that door was opened, it was like there was no turning back for me.
Caryn: I love. You can turn to your birth chart to feel seen, heard, understood, validated. So if you're feeling any of these things, you're feeling misunderstood, nobody gets you. You're just in the weeds. let's dive deeper into the birth chart. I cannot wait to hear more. So I'm going to be selfish on here and I want to use me as an example. Absolutely. And I also want to talk about the solar eclipse because I feel like it's affecting me in weird ways. So I do want to jump into that too. But first, so I'm a Libra. And like Katie said, she is too. And then what's the next part of the chart? What does that look like?
Katie: Absolutely. So I have your chart pulled up here. So I just want to prop it up here so I can look at it. So we'll just kind of focus on the big three right now. I don't know if for those of you that don't know what astrology is or maybe some of your listeners do have a background. I think it's a great way to Start with astrology like from a basic perspective to focus on your Sun sign your moon sign and your rising sign now when you pull up a birth chart, there's a lot of placements you're gonna have Placements for every planet essentially and then it can go even deeper. There's also placements for asteroids and There's house placement. So there's a lot of interpreting going on here. I don't want to overwhelm everybody, but just starting with your big three, the rising sign, the sun sign, the moon sign. So for you, you're a Gemini rising at 24 degrees. And then your sun sign is in Libra at 28 degrees. And then your moon sign is in Scorpio at nine degrees. So I mean, and then on top of that, these, planets and placements are sitting in a certain place within the chart. So then we would further interpret that. So just starting with, like I said, the rising sign, that's the entry point to your birth chart. So as a Gemini rising, this is an air sign. It really is, it's known for being a very communicative sign. It's very talkative. So actually having this podcast is so on brand with Gemini Energy. Gemini Energy, it loves to be in communication and it loves to be, it wants to perceive. It's like the sign of, it's like the sign of awareness. My daughter is a Gemini. And one thing I love about her, you know, as a 22 month old is she's so observant. She's just constantly taking the world in and she's taking the world in so that then she can synthesize that and then like communicate back. She also wants to engage and talk and connect. So that's really Gemini energy. It's, um, it's ruled by Mercury. Mercury is, the fastest moving planet besides the moon. The moon is more of a luminary. It's within the world of astrology, we say the sun and the moon are more luminaries and then everything else is a planet. But Mercury sits between planet Earth and all the other signs, or I'm sorry, all the other planets. So I love this analogy of like, you've got Earth here and then you've got Mercury right next to it and then you have all the other planets, right? You've got Venus and Mars and It goes down all the way to Pluto. So Mercury kind of acts as this messenger between Earth and like all the other planets. I heard an astrologer use that as a metaphor recently, and I just really, I really love that because it is, it's the communicator. And in traditional folklore mythology, Mercury is the planet that's able to actually go between worlds. So he's able to go down into the underworld and communicate with the underworld, but then he's able to go up to the heavens and communicate with the heavens. He's also kind of known as the trickster. Um, he can be known as a chameleon at times and every sign has a positive, higher octave, higher vibration to it. And then every sign has a shadow side and a lower octave and a lower vibration to it. So these things can manifest in a myriad of ways. depending on the mental emotional state of the native chart holder. So you'll see things play out differently for everybody. Nobody's the same. At the end of the day, we have free will, right? So it's like you can have all these potentials and characteristics, but how that's going to play out is going to be really unique to how you're using that energy and how it's showing up for you. So again, Gemini sharing through talking, communication, writing, self-expression, you know, photography, movement. Gemini is known, I'm a Gemini rising as well, and I don't know if you can tell, I'm talking with my hands. Gemini rules the hand, rules over the hand. So it's, you might need to like work with your hands if you're a Gemini, or you're Gemini heavy, if you have a rising, actually it depends, like some people are just, you can be Gemini heavy in a lot of ways, but yeah, it's a beautiful energy. When we're talking about the rising sign, what's really important is you want to also look at the ruler of the rising sign. I would say that's also incredibly important to pay attention to. For Gemini, the ruler of Gemini is Mercury. Mercury is going to be a really important planet for you.
Caryn: Great. So I have to deal with all the retrogrades.
Katie: Exactly. Exactly. Yep. I'm a Gemini rising too, so I'm right there with you, sister. It's interesting as I've tracked over the years how different retrogrades have affected me and not. It's very interesting because some I've been hit so hard. It's just because my ruling planet was coming in to help me. you know, to basically say, we got to clean house a little bit. You know, I'm here to support you. I'm here to love you. I'm here to take care of you, but you got to clean some stuff up girl. And then there's been other times where it's been really peaceful. I've had really peaceful retrogrades because, um, I just, it wasn't, it wasn't the time for me to, so I, I kind of tend to bow, go between the two extremes with retrogrades. Some of them are really peaceful and some of them can be really intense. This one so far has been more of an introspective retrograde for me. Whereas the last one that we had in December was really intense for me and really challenging.
Caryn: It's so interesting because I feel like I've been feeling both. I'm on this roller coaster of, oh my God, I feel so good. I feel so great. I feel so much momentum. Everything's great. All the positives. And then today, for example, I woke up in tears and being hard on myself and like feeling like a failure and why am I not further along, right? Like this inner critic of all these things that kind of show up, which is why coaching is so important because it's like how we get heard, we get seen, we get validated and space held for us. Even coaches need coaches. Even the best need coaches. We all need to feel support. Even if it's just from the stars or the planets, it's having this feeling of being held. Katie actually coached me this morning a little bit because I was having a hard time. Even though, yeah, was there any kind of aligned action solution to take right at that moment? No, but I was able to move through the emotion in a way that it wasn't so heavy anymore and wasn't so hard and there became this self-compassion. So aligning the stars and aligning the planets and understanding that they're really here to help you and to grow and to learn. And sometimes it's going to be a little bit harder than others. And sometimes you're going to be in the higher vibration of it and you're going to be in the shadow of it. And that's all OK. And and once you accept that, it's OK. you can move through it so much faster. I love learning about this. I want to understand, okay, so I'm like a Libra and I'm a Gemini rising as you are too. I also talk with my hands. If I'm trying to understand myself, Okay. I understand Libra and it's balancing and then Gemini. I don't understand rising that much, but thank you for introducing it. If I'm going to look at this, do I go with more of what resonates with me as a Libra or am I going to go more with what resonates with me as whatever my rising sign is? Yeah. Am I combining both?
Katie: It's a great question. So you're a mix of all of it. And so, yeah, you're a mix of all of it. So the rising sign is really, that's really how you're perceived in the world. So the rising sign, it comes in and it really highlights the first house, which is the house of the self. And this has a lot to do with, again, like first impressions you make on others. It's your entry point into the world. So you are your rising sign. Um, but it's kind of like at first glance who you are. And then as we start to get deeper, we're moving into your sun sign, right? Which your sun sign is your essence. Your sun is really important. Do not get me wrong. Like the sun is very important. It's just that when we're looking at the birth chart and interpreting the birth chart, we're gonna use the rising sign sort of as the entry point. But you're not like more dominantly your ascendant sign and less dominantly your sun sign. No, you're all of it combined and it's a synthesis. It's an art to learn to integrate with all of it and sort of embrace all of it. But I hope I'm not digressing here. So the sun sign is, it's really your essence. It's how you shine your light into the world. It's really important. It's incredibly important. It's one of the most important placements. And the son can also represent the father. It can represent your relationship with your father, how you connect with your inner masculine. how you connect with the masculine energy in your life, maybe what was modeled to you. And there's a lot of ways you can go really in-depth with this by looking at the sunshine placement, what house it's in, and then aspects that it's making, like other planets that are aspecting the sun. It all tells a more rich, in-depth story. So there's a lot of places to go with it, but you're definitely going to be showing up in the world as a Libra in so many ways. You're also going to be showing up in the world as a Gemini. And the more people get to know you, they're going to see Gemini at first glance. That's going to be really what you come off as. But as they get to know you, they're going to see more of the Libra coming through. That's going to absolutely shine and radiate through. And then your moon sign. The people that know you the best, it's your moon. The moon is your… The moon represents the mother. It's the home. It represents the body, even. It's your earliest environment, all the way starting in the womb with your mother. I mean, that's how deep it is. It's a very sensitive point in the chart. It's our instincts. It's our emotional landscape. It's how we like to be nurtured and nourished and held and supported. And it's how we process our emotions. And so for you, with that being in Scorpio, That's a very sensitive placement. It's very captivating. There's a lot of power through your emotions, through your emotional landscape. There's a lot of transformation that comes through feeling, processing, and releasing your emotions. It's probably I would imagine it's also very intense sometimes as a Scorpio moon, but it's also, oh my gosh, the more you learn to just navigate those waters and those intuitive waters and those psychic waters, it's a very psychic placement. It frees you and it grows you and it's just like this constant emotional transformation that's happening. Intense, powerful experiences. Because for you, and I don't know how in depth we can go right now, because then you start to also layer where the planets sit in the birth chart. So then there's like the next layer is your sun sign and your moon sign sit in your fifth house, which also adds like another layer to how these energies are going to be expressed and like themes that show up in your life. But again, I don't want to overwhelm people right now.
Caryn: Yeah, so let's use this in like practical ways. And we're gonna use me because, you know, absolutely, it's the best way to do it. Okay, so Libra, my essence, rising, Gemini, this is a kind of perception that people see me and then the moon is like people who know me at my core. Okay, great. So I got Libra, I got Gemini, I got Scorpio. Now, This does also remind me a lot of human design, and I don't know how many of my listeners even know what human design is, but it seems like there's a lot of integrated similarities that you're saying about my birth chart versus my human design, which I think is so cool. It's like you could really go deep on this stuff. It's fascinating. Anyway, I noticed that I tend to gravitate towards Scorpios. My mom's a Scorpio. My husband's a Scorpio. Some of my best friends are Scorpios. WTF? Don't want to curse. And it's a lot of big, not like, it's like big energy, but in a very like, it's like demanding energy. So that being my moon, now that I know that that's my moon and that's who I am at my core. And as we're learning in this coaching program, like the people you're around are your mirrors. And I'm like, ugh, these are my mirrors? Oh my goodness. But it's just really like, unpack that a little bit for me, like, okay, how as a moon Scorpio, am I saying that right? Yeah, moon and Scorpio. Okay, thank you. And then being around so many Scorpios all the time, like, how is this affecting my energy? And how can I leverage knowing that about myself now, to communicate and have more fulfilling, better relationships with these people? So it's not this constant, like, I feel like I'm constantly butting heads when I'm around Scorpios. It's like my entire life, my husband, my mom.
Katie: Are these all Scorpio suns in your life? Yeah, they're suns.
Caryn: They're like Scorpio suns.
Katie: Oh, that's so powerful. Yeah. Yeah. That's really powerful. This is interesting because now you're starting to get into relationship astrology, which is called synastry, synastry charts. There's all different kinds of charts, but overall the study of relationship astrology is synastry, which I would love to specialize in at some point, because what that is is you overlay two charts together and you look at the aspects between the charts. If you're surrounded by Scorpio suns, that's very powerful. Now it depends on exactly where their sun sign is, because like I mentioned this briefly, there's degrees to each planet. Your planet can fall anywhere between zero to 29 degrees. That's a really big spectrum. And so there's no 30th degree. It's just zero to 29. And depending on where these people's, degree sign falls, it could be exactly conjunct your moon, which it's going to bring stuff up either way. Even if it's not making like a direct aspect and those planets aren't directly talking, it's still the energy that's in the room, right? It's still, you're still going to feel it. You also have, you have more than just your moon in Scorpio. You've got, you have your Venus in Scorpio. You've got your Uranus in Scorpio. You've also got your Mercury in Scorpio. So remember back to what we were talking about, your chart ruler is Mercury. So, We also need to pay attention to what Mercury is doing in your chart because it's going to be one of the more important planets in your chart. You have four planets in Scorpio. That's a lot. That's a lot. That's a lot of Scorpio energy. I don't want it. Oh, that's so funny. This is why these people are triggering you because there could be some It's interesting because we're walking contradictions as humans. We're all contradictions. And this is my belief. We're all walking contradictions and we're constantly trying to come back home and integrate with ourselves, right? And sometimes it's a lot. Sometimes we don't have space to hold all of it. That's a human defense mechanism, right? Especially with you, I'm similar, you've got a lot of that air energy. You're a Gemini rising, you're a Libra sun. I know this might not make sense to you, but you have a loaded fifth house. That's the house of creativity and play and romance and children and fun. It's a really fun house. So that contradicts with Scorpio energy, which is really deep and penetrative. I think you use the word confrontational. I think you use that word. It can be confrontational. It's intense. It's mysterious. It's transformative. It's also my favorite energy. I have a lot of Scorpio in my chart. I love, I love Scorpio energy. It's so intense. I also have a Mercury and Scorpio like you. So very intense intellect, very intense mind. But I guess what I will say is just off the bat, intuitively what's coming to me is that there could be some integration that needs to happen here. These people could be, I mean, I believe these people, these energies, the Scorpio energy is coming into your life and it's saying, knock, knock, knock. pay attention to this energy, or we're going to keep rocking, we're going to keep shaking stuff up. Because it is so prominent in your chart, I can't even imagine if it's something that you're kind of like, I don't want to deal with that. I don't want to let go deep. I don't want to deal with intense. I don't want to be transformative. It's like we can push that down for a while, but eventually it is going to come knocking and it is something we're going to have to confront in our face. an internal battle that we face or whether it's external relationships in our life or situations that are going to pull it from us. This is just the way it is.
Caryn: It's so interesting because I resonate so much with what you're saying because I'm in this push-pull of universe, here's the universe, you need to go deeper. Ego, no, you don't. And so it's almost like confrontation within myself of like, okay, like if you go deep, that means you're pausing and that means you're being still. And I am like a huge proponent of stopping and pausing and being still, but only when it's not me. Like when it's not me. I will tell everyone else, you need to calm, you need to rest, you need to meditate, you need to do all the things. It was so interesting. I had such this awareness yesterday when I did my interview yesterday on my podcast. I was telling her how I went to get my nails done and they were taking forever. I was having a hard time just sitting there. I was like, this is not efficient with my time. We'll bring in the Enneagram in another podcast, but I'm in Enneagram 3. What that means is I'm overachiever. Let's go. Let's keep going. Let's grind it out. Let's get it done. Let's check the boxes. Do all the things. Let's succeed. Let's climb the ladder. It's just like the brain is in this loop all the time. As I'm sitting here getting my nails done, I was like, I need to get out of here. I can't be here anymore. My whole dream and my whole reason, not my whole reason, but A part of my reason for going on my own, leaving this really financially cushioned job with my family business and impacting, yes, I want to impact the world and I want to show up and change people's lives, but I wanted the freedom. I wanted the flexibility. I wanted to be able to be home with my son. I wanted to be able to go to his events and watch him do jujitsu and do all the things and get my nails done in the middle of the day if I really wanted to. And now I'm getting my nails done in the middle of the day and I couldn't appreciate it. It was taking too long. And that right there was this like, wait a minute, this is what you've been wanting. You've been wanting this freedom to be able to stop and be flexible and just sit and get your nails done without this pressure of I'm going to be late to work or I'm not going to be there in time. I got there and now I'm like, oh my God, what do I do with this? Because I'm so programmed to keep going. So with the Scorpio, it's like, oh no, you need to start going deeper. And it's like a reminder to myself, hey, okay, when you're in those moments and you can't distract yourself, start asking yourself powerful questions. what do I really need to be doing right now that is going to change anything? What is the benefit of being here with myself and my own thoughts? Because when you're getting your nails done, you're not on your phone. Maybe you could put a headphone in and talk to somebody or listen to a podcast, but I wasn't. I was just sitting there. It was so hard. With meditation, I usually Most of the time, we'll do a guided meditation. I'll sometimes not, but I'm distracted by the words. I can sit with myself, but man, just doing my nails and sitting there and just having to be with myself.
Katie: It's hard. It's hard, but I have to commend you for your awareness and your willingness to be honest with yourself about that and to sit with that. And just be so self-aware. I mean, it's so funny because as I'm hearing you talk, I'm just like, I'm getting all these ping, ping, pings about your birth chart. It's like, here we go back to the awareness, right? You're a Gemini. You're so good at having that awareness. And that's one piece of Gemini, but then Gemini need something to do with the awareness. So it's like, okay, let's go, go, go, go, go. Like, let's go. Like I have stuff to do. I have things to say. I have things to share. If you are an interesting person, I need to connect with you. I need to get this out into the world. But then, you know, again, you're being confronted with all this Scorpio energy. And then on top of it, your Mercury placement, which again is the most important part, you know, one of the, I would say it's like number one in your chart. You know, there's a lot of things that are going to be important, but it's a top player. is in Scorpio, which is really intense. And then it's sitting in a place in the chart that adds another layer that can make it also really intense. It's sitting in the sixth house, which there can be, I think for Mercury sixth house Scorpio placements, There can be like health stuff that comes up, like mental health stuff or anxiety. There can be a lot of focus on work, a lot of thinking around work. So really the remedy for this type of placement, and then on top of it, it's in Scorpio, right? So it's like intense and it's passionate and it's driven. It's a really beautiful placement, but it has pitfalls. It has dark side to it, which is I really feel like your nail story is a good expression of that. It's a good way of showing What the mind wants to do it doesn't want to be still it wants to keep going And instead just using the power of that really powerful Scorpio mind to be intuitive and present But something that's going to be super important for you again with Mercury in the sixth house, which is the house of work routine health habit daily rituals is a routine Some structure within your day-to-day, right? So you've created this like free life for yourself and But grounding into practices that are going to keep you really centered and grounded and keep your mind in a place where you are Showing up and doing the work And doing the passionate things that you want to do with your brain, you know I know we talked about biohacking like I know you love to do biohacking that's very on-brand with a mercury and Scorpio six house and So just making sure that you have ways to plug into your routines and your rituals that are keeping you grounded. So meditation, and I love this, like using the nail salon as a meditation, as a way to meditate. That is, that's genius. I mean, that's just genius. You know, I think that's one of like, I don't know what Zen Master talks about it, but there's like doing the dishes and then there's doing the dishes like very mindfully and very, present in a very present way and not being a moving meditation. I mean, that is what you did in that. You took just an everyday mundane task and you made it incredibly spiritual and used it as a way to hack your life.
Caryn: Yes and no. I more so had the awareness after I got back from the nail salon. But it is, I think, as the Gemini rising, okay, the next time I feel like I need to go, go, go, I need to be doing something. Okay, wait, let's take this moment of I have to sit here and I'm going to meditate while I'm here. And now I think the brain is like, okay, well, at least you're doing something. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Like, okay, I'm sitting here. Okay, well, I'm going to get my meditation out of the way. Check the box.
Katie: Yeah, absolutely. So it's also a hack. It's a hack. It is a hack. Well, and it's also on brand with we're in a mercury retrograde right now, too. So I know you said you wanted to talk about retrograde.
Caryn: Let's go into this retrograde. How often does it happen? When does it happen? Why does it happen? What's happening all around us? Is that too many questions? No, it's okay.
Katie: I want to know all the things. I can go there. Retrogrades are when a planet appears from our visible here on Earth, like our vision. a planet appears to be moving backwards, okay? But the keyword here is appears. So it's an optical illusion. But the belief through astrology is that that impacts us, right? So you could almost say that retrogrades are a time where energy can be a little elusive. Like it's not totally clear. And that serves us. It's a time to actually use it as medicine that we need to slow down, to revisit things. I like to say when it comes to mercury retrogrades or even retrogrades in general, right? It starts with R-E, retrograde. So Re-words, words with the prefix re. So revisit, relax, reset, revise, restructure. Those are all words that really align with retrograde periods. Now, mercury retrogrades three times a year. So that's why it's the most popular one. It's the one that you hear mainstream talking about a lot. Everyone these days pretty much knows what a mercury retrograde is, which is really cool. Because astrology is getting more People are noticing it more but I think there's a lot of fear-mongering around it and I really like to take the fear out of it and and some of that comes from my own personal experience because I've definitely suffered and struggled with mental health over the years and I'm proud to talk about that because I've really Confronted it and I've done a lot of therapy and I love psychology and I'm a coach and so dedicated my life to figuring these things out but you know as we know as coaches, like the best thing you can do is coach yourself and heal yourself. And, you know, you said like every coach, every good therapist, every good coach, they have their own coaches and therapists, you know? So, um, Oh, shoot. I feel like I just digressed a bit. Um, there was a, I was going somewhere with that and it just left my mind, but, um, you know, there's a reason, there's a reason to these retrogrades there's, um, they're, they're a healthy time for us to just come back to our center. Get really clear and a lot of times. Oh, right. So the fear that's what I was talking about the fear Astrology used to scare me because I was misusing it at times and I also feel like there are some older texts of astrology You know ancient astrology texts or just certain astrologers that interpret in ways that I personally believe are really irresponsible I don't think we should be scaring people, you know now that doesn't mean that challenges won't arise. We have to separate our like challenge from like scary, you know, it's like, hey, if something's showing up, it means I can handle it. It means it's showing up for a reason. Loving what is right. I know we just did like a whole section on Byron Katie and our coaching program, right? So loving what is it wouldn't be happening if it wasn't meant to be happening. So During Mercury retrogrades, things are coming up because it needs to be taken care of. I know a lot of people in my life in this retrograde, they've had a ton of car stuff come up, like just really stressful stuff around their cars. But thank God, it's coming up now because there are problems that you didn't know were there and now you know they're there and you need to take care of it. Mercury rules over travel and communication. It's the messenger. So a lot of times you'll see stuff come up around transportation and travel and cars. Now what people think is like, oh, should I not travel? Oh, should I not get in my car and go somewhere? And it's like, no, of course not. Or it also rolls over contracts and entering new, like they, you know, the belief is you shouldn't really sign like new contracts during a Mercury retrograde. But does that mean you should never start something new in a Mercury retrograde? No, of course not. Like sometimes you have to move. Sometimes you do need to start something. Sometimes you do need to do that. You just want to be really intentional with what you're doing if you are doing something like that. And if you're able to wait, that's great. It gives you time and space to just get really clear on what you need to do. For example, the last Mercury Retrograde we had in December, I was actually going through legal negotiations. And that was a really hard time for me because right when Mercury Retrograde started was right when we started to get into the actual legal documentation. I just wanted it to be done. I was ready to be done. I was tired and I wanted to sign the agreement and be done with it. But I remember having the awareness of like, okay, this is a Mercury Retrograde. I'm a Gemini rising. Is it really responsible for me to rush this and push this or should I surrender? to what's showing up right now. Like this is so on brand with Mercury Retrograde. This is like textbook Mercury Retrograde stuff. And that perspective really helped me lean into it and just surrender. And the contract didn't get signed, the deal didn't get done until after Retrograde ended. And it I walked away in a very good position. I was very happy with how that unfolded. I was able to catch some things that I probably wouldn't have caught if I just let my mercury mind rush me through that. That's a really good example of how to use it to your advantage.
Caryn: I want to share another example also with polarity and how you can have both sides. I decided to start this year-long mentorship because I also own short-term rentals, and I don't really understand them, and I want to self-manage them. And it was like this year long. It wasn't really a contract, but it was just the commitment. It was this commitment. And I was on the fence. We're in retrograde. Do I jump into this? Do I wait? But for me, It kept being more of a yes than a no. And I kept thinking about it. And I kept being like, well, this mentorship makes sense for me, even though I'm in complete overwhelm, I'm in complete crazy overachiever mode. But it just kept being a yes. And as going into a commitment like that during retrograde could be a little tricky and a little scary, but it can also bring peace and like, and show up in a way that you made the right choice. And I believe there are no wrong choices. Everything, like you said, is just like a redirect. OK, you made this choice. It's going to redirect you in one way or the other. And that's OK. Absolutely. On the other side, so that side, I did go into a commitment during this retrograde. And it's okay. So I'm here to tell you it's okay if something's in alignment and makes sense to go for it. Now, on the opposite, I have an agreement with my old company that I'm in the middle of renegotiating. because it's a little tricky and it's a little messy. Before we went on this conversation, I literally messaged the company and was like, I want to put this on pause right now because it's not aligning and we're not getting to an agreement where we both feel good about it. That affects me. I'm changing the agreement because I I feel there is a better way for everyone involved. But really, specifically, it would help me a lot more just in taxes and some other things. But because it's been such this mental drain and exhaustion, I was like, you know what? I'm putting it on pause. So now that agreement is just on pause. You know what? When retrograde is over, I think you said on the 24th, maybe I revisit this agreement and see it with fresh eyes and less emotion and can be from a more neutral, clean place instead of coming from this Scorpio aggressive or Gemini, I don't know which one's more aggressive, but this really deep, everything's personal and then it's fiery. I feel like all the signs are coming in and it's almost like, wait a minute, you can do both. Both things can be true. You can enter into an agreement and also pause an agreement. Love that. And both are okay, and both things can be true. So I just really love using the guidance. The stars got your back.
Katie: They do. Absolutely. They do, and I love that you picked up on that. I love that you used the word polarity because within astrology, it's all about polarity, and it's all about the spectrum in between. Right? We've got the extremes, and then what's falling in between. And I feel like your story is a perfect example of what it means to be really integrated and holistic in your approach, and really balanced, you know, and not being afraid, not being afraid, you know, planets are always moving, there's always something going on in the sky. There's, you know, solar eclipses are happening all the time. We just hear about certain ones more because of media or, you know, this solar eclipse we just had was a big deal, right? We could see it in America. So it got a lot of hype. But eclipses are going on all the time. And it's not, these certain things are not always going to hit everybody the same. This solar eclipse was a huge upgrade that we just went through. collectively and individually. So yeah, that was a big deal.
Caryn: So let's talk about the eclipse because there, like you said, there's a lot of buzz about it. A lot of, I think there's a lot of misinformation about it too. And I don't know much about it. I just know like be grounded, like be intentional, like the basic stuff and kind of like the spiritual sense of it. But like what, from an energetic standpoint, yeah, I know physically an eclipse, and I think most listeners understand that the moon's going in front of the sun, right? I did that right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But like what is really happening, for those who are maybe a little bit more sensitive to energy, what is happening How long, like what is happening before, what is happening after, how long is this energy kind of staying here with us?
Katie: Yeah, great question. So we just went through a series of, well, we're in the middle of going through a series of eclipses. When eclipses happen, they come in pairs, spread out over a year and a half, couple year period. Right now we're having eclipses that are happening in the axis of Aries and Libra. So back to polarities, eclipses happen in opposite signs of one another. So right now we're moving through the Aries-Libra axis. So a lot of themes have been coming up or will continue to come up through a collective perspective around relationships, relationships with others, And that can be anything. It can be business, partnerships, romantic, marriage, and then relationships with yourself. Because that's all, Aries is all about the self. So we've seen, so in this most recent round we had, we had a lunar eclipse that happened at the end of March. I don't remember the exact date. And then we had the solar eclipse that happened two weeks later. So the lunar eclipse happened in Libra. And then two weeks later on April 8th, we had the solar eclipse that happened in Aries. And so we were in the eclipse windows. Now we're kind of coming out of it a little bit. Everybody at this point in time, it's, what's the date? It's April 16th. At this point in time, everybody should have some idea what the themes are for them. Eclipses come in and they eclipse things in and out of your life, essentially. So they are known as a time where big things can happen. Pregnancies, marriages, divorces, starting new businesses, meeting new people, new soul contracts, death can happen, births can happen. It's a highly charged time. As a matter of fact, the ancients used to actually be afraid of eclipses. Like they would say, don't even go outside during an eclipse. And, you know, if a baby was born during an eclipse window, like they carry eclipse energy, which is, you know, they used to fear that kind of like we would, you know, kind of like witches were burned at the stake. Right. It's just, it's too powerful. Like stay away from it. But now, you know, we're, we're changing in our consciousness and we actually realize like, Oh no, we need to, this intensity is here to grow us and to evolve us. So it really depends on, you know, everybody person on a personal level has different themes coming up for them right now. And we should, I would say for the most part, everybody should have some idea of what, what this eclipse meant for them. I will say from a collective perspective, this, this eclipse on the solar eclipse on April 8th, it was, it was, this eclipse was making certain aspects with, um, One of the north node, which is like the node of the moon, and the north node represents like our purpose and what we're supposed to move towards in life. It's our destiny, but it's also something that we're not very comfortable with. It's something we're learning to integrate towards. So we don't orient towards it naturally. It takes work to orient towards it, but it's what we should be orienting towards. So this eclipse was making an aspect to that, but it was also making an aspect to an asteroid called Chiron, And Chiron in astrology is known as the wounded healer. And so it represents our deepest wounds. It's a very, very, very sensitive point in the chart. It's where we hold our deepest wounding. But it's also where if we can get into that wounding and really be with it and sit with it, it's also where we step into the emanation of the wounded healer. So the way I see it is like, Of course, of course this eclipse had to sit with our deepest wounding and our purpose. Because really it's like only through healing that deep, deep wounding can you really step into the next level of your life. And that's what this eclipse was about. It was a massive shift in consciousness, whether people realize it or not. Some people, know that on a conscious level. A lot of people listening to this podcast know on a conscious level that things have shifted, things are changing. They're feeling it on some way, I would imagine. So we have that individual consciousness, but then we also have the collective consciousness. And we're all tapped into that, like through, I don't know, like Carl Jung talks about that. Like we're all a part of this collective conscious. And so whether we realize it or not, unconsciously, we're upgrading, we're shifting. the cosmos are beckoning it, they're calling it forth, the planet is changing, things are shifting, whether we want to be aware of it or not. And so that's really what happened and is happening with this most recent cycle of eclipses.
Caryn: Yeah, it almost sounds like you're, I don't know how many of our listeners do like hypnosis and meditations, but it's kind of like when you, excuse me, visualizing a door open and it's like, all right, you're walking through that door for your new life, but you don't have choice anymore. Exactly. Like, okay, this door's open, but I can't make you walk through it. But now the solar eclipse is like, nope, nope, nope.
Katie: It's such a beautiful way of putting it. You are going. You are going. And for the people that are fighting it, that's where you see a lot of the darkness.
Caryn: So you have an option, right? You have an option. You're going to go through that door. So you can go through that door and be like, all right, I'm on this journey. Let's enjoy it. Let's see what happens. Let's see what I learn. Or you can be the complete opposite and be in suffering and be in pain. I mean, what would you choose? And I think we forget, you get to choose how you feel about it. You get to choose. And for some reason, we feel that by choosing the pain and suffering or the victimhood, that it's somehow going to change the outcome. And it's not. It's not serving anybody and you're the one suffering. By being mad at the person, it's not affecting that person. It's only affecting you.
Katie: Yeah, it's like drinking poison.
Caryn: So being mad at the solar eclipse is not affecting the solar eclipse. It doesn't care. Yeah, exactly.
Katie: Exactly. You're just hurting yourself. That's exactly right.
Caryn: Right. So it's like, okay, how can we shift? How can we use the asterisks? How can we use all of this knowledge to shift this lens and this perspective to feel more joy and to feel love and to feel happy and knowing like when you're in The darkness, we need the darkness so we can see the light. There's no light either without darkness. Yeah, absolutely.
Katie: We need both. I was just going to say, darkness is potential. The dark is the unknown, but it's also the seed of potential. It's the beginning of life. where the seed of life comes, the embryo, it's the spark of life just starting out. It's the seed before it rises up through the soil and starts to get that first, you know, ray of sunshine. It's essential that we go into the dark. And I think it's important to separate dark from evil. I think there's a huge difference between the two. And I don't even, you know, I know we could get, like, that can get very intense and, you know, maybe even charged for some people, but I see it as different. I definitely think pain and suffering and all of that is a part of being in the dark. Think about being a baby coming out of the womb of the mother. I mean, that in and of itself is a trauma. It just is. It's a bodily trauma. It's obviously a natural trauma, but a baby coming through a birth canal, it's leaving it safe space. you know, but it's coming out through the darkness and birthing into the light. So these are all natural, you know, cyclical parts of life. And nature doesn't, nature doesn't have the mind like we do as humans, right? So the mind is where we create the suffering of what's just natural, right? Like they know, like nature knows the cycles of life. Like there's death, there's rebirth. and there's life. You just keep going through these cycles of life, death, life, life, death, life. That's just the way it works.
Caryn: Yeah. I want to unpack that too because I like to look at it as seasons, right? Me too. What season are you in? There's spring. This is kind of when you're springing into action. when you're starting making things happen. This is when the seed is starting to kind of sprout, right? And then you're in summer, and that's when you're kind of in this full bloom, you're in it, you're doing it. And then there's fall, which is kind of like a little bit of like, okay, I'm going to kind of become like, like, what's the word? Like, not complacent, but just like, it'll come back to me. We're going to go to winter and we'll come back to fall. And then winter is just like, like a time for rest and reflection and taking a break and, and really like, like we need all of them. And, and we are in a cycle and, and people are in different cycles at different times. Like as a collective, we're coming into winter, we're kind of in winter, we're in Some people like to call it a recession. I don't know. I don't follow all of that, but it's just kind of a winter for the collective. Some people might call it a death. Some people might call it winter or just resting or reflection, whatever resonates, but we're constantly in a season. I heard on another podcast, it's like laundry, right? You never finish your laundry. you're just in a cycle. Either there's a load in the laundry, there's a load that needs to come out of the laundry, there's a load that needs to be folded, there's clothes that need to go into the laundry. We're never done with laundry. Laundry is never done. It's the best metaphor I've ever heard.
Katie: I love this metaphor so much.
Caryn: We're in a cycle. being like saying like it is not your job to have the laundry done. I love that.
Katie: I just love that. I love that metaphor so much. I'm going to be using that one.
Caryn: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's like life. We're just constantly in a cycle. Absolutely. It's never done. It's never done. And the same thing with growth and the same thing with the cosmos. Yep. It's done. We're constantly evolving. We're constantly growing. We're constantly up leveling if you allow it.
Katie: Yeah. I think we were talking about this before the show too. It's like, and it, it connects, but movement, right? The universe is not still, we are not still, you were saying, you know, we're just a bunch of atoms constantly vibrating. And that's true. It's like you're either progressing and moving forward or you're regressing and you're dying. And so being really intentional about that, and that's not to be confused with slowing down and rest, because you can be resting and you can be moving slow, but still moving and not being really intentional. And it's, again, back to what you're saying, it's a part of the cycle. If you were constantly go, go, go, go, go, then you'd eventually die. That's just nothing in nature is constantly going. All the wisdom you need is within nature. I mean, really.
Caryn: Yeah. And I want to give permission to people like me. Like, it's okay to rest. You have permission to rest and you have permission to pause. And especially women, we have a lot on our plate. And I could go through a lot of it, you know, we're moms, we're wives, or we're partners, We also have to buy the makeup to look good. We also have to do the facials. We have to get our legs waxed, shaved. We constantly are doing things to make us feel good. Forget just the responsibilities, just the being a woman. And then we're cyclical. We're on 28-day cycles. So as a man, are on the 24-hour circadian rhythm, and they can kind of be on the same every single day. And especially like a generator in human design, like somebody who just like, they can eat eggs for breakfast every single day, and they can eat steak for dinner every single day. But we're not only on the 24-hour circadian rhythm, we're also on the 28-day menstrual with the moon. We're on a moon cycle. So that's like this other layer of cycling. Like we're just constantly in a cycle. And when you know where you are in the cycle, you can, instead of fighting it and resisting it, you can move through it and really power to, you know, the next knob on the laundry or the next up level in your life, but when you have the awareness and you're in it and you know you're in it and you're like, okay, I'm going to have compassion for myself. I'm in winter right now and that's okay.
Katie: Absolutely. Absolutely. That's the medicine right there. That's the prescription and just leaning into that and swimming downstream. I love all of that.
Caryn: Yeah. Katie, thank you so much for today. It was so many magical nuggets. I wanted you to let our listeners know what is something that they can kind of astro-hack their life, that they can start implementing right away to kind of either bring in this energy or reduce it, whatever they need to do to kind of up-level their life and go to the next step.
Katie: Absolutely. So I think, first and foremost, get your birth chart. Get your birth chart and get to know your birth chart. So whether that's through a course of self-study or whether it's through consulting with somebody, maybe it's a mix of both. That's definitely been my journey. I've consulted with so many different astrologers and coaches and therapists that use astrology, and then I've done a lot of self-study. But start there. Get your birth chart. If you need help, There's a lot of help out there. There's a lot of resources. There's a lot of tools. And then once you have your birth chart and you start looking into that, I mean, going back to figuring out what your ruling planet is, paying attention to what your ruling planet is. So, you know, for you, you're a Gemini rising, you're going to pay attention to what Mercury is doing. If you're a Cancer rising, Cancer's ruled by the moon, you're going to pay attention to what the moon is doing. It's going to stand out for you more. If you're a woman, and I love that you brought this up, you're also going to pay attention to the moon. Um, you've got a biological, you know, connection to the moon. So following that is going to be, it's going to be helpful for anybody, like irrespective of gender, but I just feel like, you know, that, that plays a part too. Um, and then, you know, what else I recommend doing, um, is looking into transits. And I say that with caution because you want to be really careful with transits. You don't want to be looking up transits on your own. Scaring yourself. There's a lot of information on the internet. You want to be really really really intentional please with Where you're getting your information and how you're taking that in so I would suggest even if you're a beginner consult with Somebody that resonates like whose energy you feel safe with you like their content You know, I'm a big proponent of mental health and just supporting people and really being nourishing when we're talking about astrology and transits because Transits sometimes can be used to predict things and I've heard horror stories of people going and getting You know readings done with people or reading something on the internet and it's like oh my god I'm gonna die like when I'm this age and it's like no astrology is not that's not what we're using astrology for people like we You mentioned this earlier. We have free will like choice, you know, so But I do think transits are a beautiful thing Just please do that mindfully with caution and I would say like consult with somebody first that you trust
Caryn: I love that. I'm going to go deep diving with you on my birth chart. I am super excited. Katie, where can people find you? How can they work with you? How can they follow you? Please share all the good deets.
Katie: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. People can find me at my website at katiesanger.com. It is www.katiesanger.com. And then on Instagram, my handle is at It's Katie Sanger. I'm also on Twitter and TikTok with those handles at It's Katie Sanger, but I'm not as active on there, but I do plan on being more active in the future. And right now I'm offering coaching services utilizing astrology. So It's really fun. It's really cool. We get in there and we do all the coaching hacks and tools that you and I use, but we have the birth chart present and we're using it as the map and we're just diving deep.
Caryn: I just wanted to share I've been working with Katie for like two weeks and my life is already drastically better. So I highly, highly recommend.
Katie: Same for me.
Caryn: We're all about the up level. So thank you so much. I hope to have you back and we can maybe talk more about moon energies and all the different more things about all the different more things. Listen to me. Like more cosmos and just relating it to practical ways that this kind of shows up in our life and how we can just keep astro hacking our life. Thank you so much.
Katie: Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. It's been lovely.
