Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Couple of Nukes. As always, I'm your host, Mr. Whiskey, and you can't see what my hoodie says. It's from Grunt Style, not a sponsor, but it says Whiskey Helps, and I just threw it on because the temperature when I left for my cruise, it was about 80 degrees in Georgia, and that's in Fahrenheit for everyone listening internationally, and then I went to the coast of Mexico and such, and it was, 80 or more for the most part and then I came back and it is suddenly like 40 degrees So not only that but I also got Completely sunburnt the whole trip, which it's peeled now, but I was already so warm and now it's freezing here So I threw on this hoodie and it says whiskey helps and that's just a joke because my name is mr.
Whiskey, but Though whiskey may help, ultimately it is God who saves and He is the ultimate helper. And we're going to talk today about how God is helping us even when we don't see it, we don't recognize it. Often we don't think He is because of suffering. But the Bible is filled with so many reassuring quotes about how when we suffer it is for the greater good, and that it is You know, we win in the end.
For those of you who haven't read the Bible, we win in the end. So that's always great to keep in mind. But we are here with a man who, like many of you, has suffered significantly and it really pushed and tested his faith. And he's going to talk about how his journey of faith has led him to where he is today.
And he's going to share that story to help y'all who are suffering. to hear a new perspective, as well as maybe get some answers to some of those questions bothering y'all. So Mr David Libby, would you please introduce yourself for us? Well, thank you, Mr Whiskey. I'm very glad to be here and My name is David Libby.
I live in central Maine, so I'm not too far from Canada. Um, although you're in Canada, right? Mr. No, sir. I just attend Canadian prayer study online. Yeah. My, my, my father and mentor Johnny T happens to be Canadian. Uh, though we don't, we don't like to get caught in public too much American and Canadian, you know, it's too cold.
It's too cold there for me to ever. I'm, I'm already freezing in Georgia in the south. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm sorry. I was thinking of Johnny T, you know, that connection. So, but anyway, um, I live in central Maine. Uh, I'm a logger by trade. I cut and harvest logs, pulpwood, biomass chips, and that sort of thing.
And I've been self employed doing that for many years. And, uh, I and my family have always lived a very rugged, rugged outdoor lifestyle, hunting, fishing, foraging for wild edible plants, and, uh, gardening and raising livestock, living a, you know, close to the earth, homesteading kind of lifestyle. And as a result of that lifestyle, we all were bitten by many, many ticks, and we all contracted Lyme disease.
This was quite a few years ago now, probably 25, 30 years ago. And it was not well tested or diagnosed back then, still isn't now, excuse me, I'm sorry. The early morning recording sessions. Oh no, yeah, that's okay. Um, but anyway, I went undiagnosed for many years and the whole family became very, very ill.
Um, it was not difficult for me to treat, I, I was quite sick with it at times that I, Treated it with a great deal of success, um, both, you know, with mainstream treatments and then we ended up eventually getting out of mainstream medicine, of alternative treatments because mainstream medicine totally failed my family and I had success in both, both paths.
Um, my family, because of a genetic mutation that they have in combination with Lyme disease, you know, without getting into too many details that shut down their body's ability to do to a process of toxins, you know, they couldn't get rid of the toxins that the body is constantly taking in. So they were.
Really slowly being poisoned to death by all the stuff around us, trying to kill us, you know, we, we eat a very, very careful diet. Um, but still those toxins, even natural toxins in some of the food, the air we breathe and the clothes we wear. And so my wife and both daughters became very, very ill. Um, their symptoms were, uh, like a really bad flu all the time.
But then, you know, that was kind of the baseline constant. So You know, illness. On top of that, severe pain throughout their bodies. My wife described it as feeling like there were shards of broken glass all through her body. She was unable to walk at times, would spend long periods of time in bed. Then they began having violent seizures and psychotic episodes.
Um, severe pain. It just, it got really, really bad for, oh, probably 10, 15 years. And there were ups and downs, always sick and, and the downs were, were really bad. So that's the, uh, that's the world of suffering that I found myself immersed in. And again, it went on for very, very many years, you know, 15 years or so, 20 years in my wife's case.
Uh, and that forced me to grapple with some of the difficult, uh, Theological and philosophical questions. I'm also a devoted Christian, um, been very active in the church my whole life, um, a deacon for a good long while, and then an elder for a good long while, um, I love philosophy, I love theology, uh, read God's word constantly, so, so, uh, you know, this life of suffering forced me to, you know, grapple with some of the hard questions, you know, starting with the question, how could a God who doesn't make mistakes have created a world so full of mistakes as this one is, that was, um, An argument that was made by, um, a compatriot of Charles Darwin's, Ernst Haeckel's, um, you know, he called it the disteliological argument.
You know, proof against the existence of the God of the Bible. You know, the God of the Bible created this world. Well, isn't he perfect? He doesn't make mistakes, right? Well, why is this world so full of Accidents, and broken bones, and plane crashes, and diseases, and viruses, and, um, and so forth, so, um. So, you know, starting there, I grapple with these tough questions, and that's what my book is about.
Yeah, I think it's interesting, you know, that it's the Lord ways, not our ways of thinking. And to us, perfect is this concept that nothing will go wrong, that everything will be well. Uh, but to God, I believe that perfect is far more complicated than that, that his perfect is a bigger picture than we could ever imagine, uh, because you talk about, like you said, broken bones.
And, wow, I can't, I'm just so impressed with just thinking about, I always bring up the book of Jonah and Job, uh, two of my favorite stories in the Bible because they really highlight Thank you. How complicated the world is, how big the world is, and how much value there is in it. And, you know, we can't even begin to think of all the things that line up because this happened.
And you know, it's so funny, I was actually thinking yesterday about this. Because, like I said, you mentioned broken bones, and most people would say, well that's, that's awful. Uh, but for all we know, that broken bone, uh, led to a series of events that made the ultimate path in life for that person. Uh, you know, there's so many things because a song I was driving in the car yesterday and, uh, one of my favorite songs came on and I realized it was the song that started that it was my first song that I ever listened to that transitioned me into listening to country music.
I had never listened to country music before then and stuff and, uh, country music became a huge part of my lifestyle. Even though I had moved down south, I was yet to, to adopt all of that. And then, um, once the music came, you know, everything else came, which eventually led to the creation of Mr. Whiskey's branding.
So just that one song playing at the right time in the right place for me to, to listen to it in an engaged manner and feel related to it. And yeah, there's just so many things that line up that we can't even imagine. Yeah. You know, I, I listened to an episode of Johnny T's podcast, Refuge Freedom Stories.
Or as he likes to say, it's not his podcast, he just hosts it. And there was an episode with a guest who had cut open a human body for a scientific research. And he said, I mean, his mind was just blown by how complicated the inside of a human being was and how everything has to work so in sync and, you know, Or even scientists who study how many different types of bugs there they are and how complicated they are.
So I think it's great. In your case, it seems the opposite where everything lined up for the worst possible scenario. Where not only did they get Lyme's disease, but your family had this genetic mutation that brought about consequences that maybe one in a million people would ever ever experience. In fact, as you were talking, I was thinking about my childhood, because I grew up in northern New Jersey, hiking and fishing and hunting, and, uh, you know, I've had a few ticks on me, and we were, that was the big concern, was always Lyme's disease, and when you're removing them, to not get the, uh, some people get the head stuck in there, they rip off the body, then the head is stuck in there, uh, which is bad, And, uh, we would always check ourselves after, after walking through the woods to make sure we didn't have any ticks.
Check the dogs. And, um, it's such a scary thing to think about. And I know there are people here who don't know what, you know, what ticks are or have never heard of Lyme's disease. Now, you talk about, they really tested you. And so, I mean, you talk about, I mean, did you even think that, Your first question was, how could God allow this?
What was your second question then? Is God even real? Um, no, I never doubted that. I knew that God is, I knew that I, I not only know God, cause I know about him. I know him cause I know him personally, but, uh, but I guess the questions were, um, I, I never doubted the existence of God, nor did I doubt his goodness or his care for us.
Um, But I just felt the need to find answers to questions that people don't have good answers to, and, um, my youngest daughter forced a lot of that, she's a good philosopher, and by the way, Mr. Whiskey, you actually, uh, I believe gave the perfect answer, uh, uh, which most Christians don't give, actually, they try to find some way to reconcile the imperfections in this world with the perfections of God, or God You know, God's inability to make mistakes, you know, there's got to be some way we can reconcile the two of them.
Your answer essentially said that God's definition of perfection is different from ours. You know, there are no imperfections in this world. That's the correct answer. Things are falling out according to His decree. Even the unpleasant things. Um, but then that forces other questions like, why, you know, why would He allow, uh, you know, suffering in this world?
Why would He allow evil? That sort of thing. Um, and I think ultimately, you know, we can look at that from a different, from a more than one different perspective. Um, one would be, as you said, he, uh, works all things together for the good of those who are called according to his purposes. You know, Romans 8, 28 tells us so.
Amen. There's really nothing, there's nothing harmful in an ultimate sense happening to any of his children. Now that promise isn't made to everybody. It's made to those who were called according to his purposes. You know, those who love him. You know, we know that ultimately those who reject Christ, you know, things will work together for their harm.
Uh, very sadly. Um, they need to know the Lord Jesus and, you know, be one of his. And then, you know, they can be sure that this life is, this is a little temporary short life. That's the truth. Not only not all that there is, we have a better life to look forward to, but also even here and now he is working all of our circumstances together for his glory and for our good.
That's a beautiful promise, isn't it? Yeah, it is, and I was thinking of Jeremiah chapter 10 verse 23 is one I reference a lot, and it's one that most people struggle with. It's, Lord, I know that people's lives are not their own. It is not for them to direct their steps. And I've had plenty of episodes where we talk about human beings wanting to be in control, wanting to conform the world to our idea of perfection, like you talked about our definition of it.
And, you know, anytime there's bad stuff happening, I think about, you know, so we want God to be an intervener, but more in a babysitter and a casualty response manner and or preventative manner. But then when we're sinning and we enjoy it, we don't want him to intervene, right? I mean, some of us do, some of us have that.
Maturity and and knowledge where we can say god. I need you to to free me from this in fact when I was on the cruise ship, I met someone who You know was had given their life to drugs and then one day they just said I can't I gotta give my life to jesus And they haven't done drugs since so sometimes People are capable of asking but my point being that people always say why does god allow evil?
Not why do people choose evil, right? I was actually talking to a woman from ukraine who was talking about You You know, if, if God is, exists, why is, is there war? And I said, well, who, who are the people leading the wars and, and why? You know, and, and, the answer isn't going to be, Oh, it's this great Christian guy who, now in the past there have been, You know, there's always going to be people who twist religion and false prophets.
Uh, but for the majority of it, you have a lot of suffering is because the result of evil people or people not following God's word. And, that's highlighted in Deuteronomy, and I don't have the, the verse memorized, but basically what it says is, God says, Oh, only my people could keep their promise, what a heart they have.
It's, uh, you know, Moses is talking about, you know, all, everyone who followed him into the desert was like, God, you freed us, we're gonna, whatever you say, we will follow. And, and God just, Bitterly almost, you know, weeps with joy and sorrow saying, if only they had the heart to keep true to that, but I know they will fail.
And, uh, it's so sad. It really is, you know, and that's why I love the one Bible verse that says, uh, do not swear oaths for only God is the one who follows through on everything. And, uh, everyone listening has had someone make a promise to them that didn't get fulfilled. Uh, so we, we know how that is. And I think it's so important.
And so, I mean, you talked about knowing God personally. Can you tell us a little bit about your backstory into that? What happened in your life that you knew God was real? Well, um, I grew up in a Christian home, so I was brought up to believe, um, in a, you know, biblical worldview, a biblical view of God. But I, I, uh, I've always been one who tests things.
So I had my, you know, rough years, you know, generally teen years, you know, maybe starting late. Age 12 or so to 20, you know, where I really was, um, pushing back against my Christian beliefs and it was actually meeting my wife, um, before she was my wife that really pushed me hard back into knowledge of God because she Was not a Christian at the time.
I was, you know, professing to be, and, you know, she had a lot of hard questions that didn't have answers to, so it began kind of a pursuit of, of truth, um, um, you know, wanting to know the right answers, and, uh, but at some point along the way, I realized that a connection was made between the head knowledge and, you know, truly knowing and loving the Lord.
There's a difference between the two, so if you, you know, I think a lot of our seminaries are filled with students that, uh, I'm not knocking seminaries, but I think there are a lot of students in seminaries who, you know, Don't really know the Lord. Don't really love him, right? You know, it's a it's a head knowledge thing And uh, and that's important, you know, we need to know about God in order to know him We need to know scripture, you know, you've been quoting scripture a lot here And you know, that's that's the I guess the objective connection that we have with God, you know We need to know about him in order to know him But then it has to go beyond just knowing about him.
There has to be a heart commitment You know, is this something we really talk with? Um, you know, feel the presence of somebody we truly love. You know, if you ask, you ask, um, um, a professing Christian who knows the Bible inside and out, do you actually truly love this God you're talking about? You know, the answer to that question, um, is very telling.
It means a lot. I, I actually watched a pastor being interviewed or somebody candidating as a pastor being interviewed once, um, and, uh, the congregation was asking him questions. He was put before the congregation so they could ask him anything they wanted to and this was in a church that had a very high view of sound doctrine And they were asking all these heady questions about theology and they were good questions He was giving good answers.
And then one of the deacons asked he said, you know You're giving all kinds of great answers to these hard theological questions but tell us about your personal subjective relationship with the Lord and what the guy said was I have a relationship with God through Scripture. And so, that's good as far as it goes, but what that said to me was, He doesn't have a subjective relationship with the Lord.
Right, right. That's what that said to me. Um, he was kind of admitting he doesn't have one. And, so we need both, don't we? Yeah, no, I talked about this just the other day, I believe. And, uh, I fall into that category sometimes where, I know all the scientific and mathematical numbers proving God exists. I know the scripture.
And so I never doubt that God is real. Uh, but that personal relationship, that love, uh, is definitely doubted sometimes. And it's hard as people, you know, uh, we have trouble forgiving ourselves, right? So to think that God would forgive us, that other people would forgive us. Uh, and, you know, it's because we know we're undeserving of His mercy and love.
And, uh, I've heard so many people say that out loud, and, you know, I've had moments in my life, too, where I'm like, I'm truly undeserving of all this. And, uh, it's so important. What I will say, is knowing the Scripture can help a lot, because it's, It's knowing the scripture and then seeing it played out in, in life, in your life.
Uh, because there's plenty of people, like you said, just know the quotes. There's plenty of atheists who have read the whole Bible and, um, they read it. In fact, I had a conversation with a guy, you know, he read it and he just highlighted all the negative things out of it for me. He didn't get any of the, you know, love from it.
And, you know, For people who, most people are New Testament enthusiasts. I am a, a vivid Old Testament enjoyer. And a lot of people who are used to the New Testament and they read the Old Testament and they're like, this is awful. Um, you know, it's, you gotta read with the spirit, you know, you gotta read it.
And like I said, see it play out in your life. And for some of y'all, uh, the moment just hasn't come. I believe everyone has that moment where they're like, Wow, that's, that's true. And so, Mr. Libby, you talked about, you know, you started having all these questions, uh, during your times of suffering, which, as you mentioned, was for several decades of suffering.
Uh, not just you, but you're watching your family suffer as well. And I know most people would say if God brought you together with someone, why would he make you to suffer and go through that? So as you're having all these questions, I mean, what kind of reeled you in and brought you back to, okay, uh, you know, God is real and this is meant to happen.
And I mean, what, how did you kind of pull yourself out of that dark mirey pit? Well, okay. The dark, yeah, I guess I was in and out of the dark mirey pit. Um, the,
I, I guess the, uh, the fact that God's Word, uh, does supply good answers, I think, is what would pull me out of the dark miry pit. So, you know, I mentioned a bit ago, you know, the, you know, the head knowledge not being enough. I don't want to knock the head knowledge. The head knowledge is very, very important.
You know, we have to be grounded in God's Word. I know all kinds of people who claim to have, you know, A great, you know, subjective, close relationship with God, but if you ask them about God, they know nothing about Him, and you know, what God is it they have a relationship with? Is it even the right one? Is it even the true one?
Or is it the God of their imagination? So, what really, um, kept me anchored was, You know, what would pull me out of the darkness was God's Word, was the Bible. Um, the, um, uh, the Bible does not give us all the answers to our why questions, but it does give us all the answers we need, and it gives us some very important answers.
You know, for example, we, um, um, you know, we wonder why, um, why would God, okay, so, so the reason why we suffer in this life is because man fell into sin. Uh, man rebelled against God. Um, if we, if we object to, you know, the doctrine of original sin, you know, man fell on the Garden of Eden, you know, we might say, well, I wasn't there, it was Adam, not me.
Well, we've all kind of heartily joined the rebellion, haven't we? You know, we are all sinners. Um, so man rebelled against God, God, um, has, uh, set up a standard of ethics, um, that we cannot keep, that we do not keep. It's a standard of perfection. Um, he has the right to do that. He is God. Um, and so we don't really have the right to complain when we suffer.
We're not getting anything that we don't deserve. So then we could push back against that and say, well, then why, if God is sovereign, if God, you know, sovereignty is not a, uh, Now, uh, sovereignty is a, is a, is an absolute term, there aren't degrees of sovereignty, you know, is, is God in control or isn't he in control?
And if he is, well, then why did he set up a system in which there would be a fallout of sin in the first place, you know, couldn't he have protected us from that? I believe he could have. Um, why didn't he? Well, you know, God's Word gives us some answers to that question. Um, he, uh, a fallout of sin gives us, uh, the occasion to see his justice, mercy, and grace on display, um, in ways that they wouldn't be.
Otherwise, you know, God is glorified in that, uh, but couldn't we know those divine attributes just as well without it following us in, if he'd given us a different capacity for knowledge, you know, I think probably so. So here we have, you know, ways that these arguments can push back against, and that they are good answers, and God's Word is full of them, uh, You know, a fall out of sin gave God the occasion to demonstrate love for us in ways that he wouldn't have otherwise, you know, without a false and there would be no glorious atonement, no redemption.
But again, we can push back against these answers and ultimately the place where we end up is that is the answer that you gave earlier. Um, he is God and we're not, you know, he has a different definition of perfection than we do. So, so we can, we can hold a lot of those truths knowing that, that he is God, he's the one in control.
He's the one who, he's the one who has ordained this reality for us, you know, at some point we need to apprehend, you know, grab a hold of what is real, even if we don't comprehend why it is the way it is. Um, and then also in scripture we have glorious promises to God's children, to God's people, that tell us that our suffering is not in vain.
You know, there was a, uh, you know, there was a glorious, eternal, heavenly hope awaiting us. You know, this little drop in the bucket of little tiny life that we're living now will pale to insignificance and glory. And not only that, but we're told in scripture that the sufferings here are actually Contributing to that way to glory.
So it's none of it is none of it is is without purpose All of it is designed by a sovereign God for his glory and for the good of his people So knowing those things is what you know would keep me from you know, sticking into the dark mire very dark times Right, right and for those of you who don't understand a dark mirey pit reference get reading the Bible That's a right biblical reference But You know, I was going to say a few things, starting with It's so beautiful how God connects people in Bible quotes at the right time and place.
And when I was on the cruise, I met this beautiful young woman and we were talking about the Bible. And her phone wallpaper was this quote that I asked her about and it ties perfectly into today's conversation. It's Romans chapter 8, verse 18. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is going to be revealed to us.
And, uh, ties directly into what we're talking about. And I think that's just so beautiful that I had just gotten that quote, you know, put into my life just a few days ago before having this conversation. And it can be applied in so many ways. But also you said that the Bible gives good answers and the answers we need.
Uh, and ladies and gentlemen, you'll notice Mr. Levy didn't say the answers we want. That's right, I did not. A lot of times we had the answers we want. And you mentioned a couple of good things that, the questions and arguments can go in endless cycles and circles for a long time. And I think that also plays into the whole story of the Bible, which is one of the hardest things for people to do, which is just, Surrender your life to the Lord.
Just Lord God use me as a vessel and I'm gonna go where you you lead and I think if we had Answers one way or the other we wouldn't need to surrender. We would just follow that path In obedience or because it's the better path for us. But by having this Endless cycle and by creating all that, uh, whether you want to call it confusion or frustration or it's a whole bunch of emotions that, that follows along those questions.
Uh, it ultimately pushes us to have to go to the Bible for answers and then to surrender to God. And I think that is beautiful because when you surrender your life to God, I mean, great things will happen. I've seen it in my life. I've seen it in the life of others. And so. I'd love to know, Mr. Levy, I know that your family is still dealing with the consequences of all this to this day, so, I mean, do you have moments, uh, where you kind of waver in and out of faith, or, you know, days that are worse than others, or have you reached a point where you're firm in your faith and you know what's happening?
Yeah, no, there's no wavering anymore, really, um, for one thing, the girls are doing a whole lot better, but, um, you know, they still, they still do suffer, you know, I don't think they'll, um, uh, barring a miracle, which is always possible, uh, they won't be fully well in this life, I don't believe. Um, but they're doing a whole lot better.
We've, we've been able to find ways to treat their illness. Um, and, um, both of my daughters are actually married now, living out of state. I never thought I'd see the day of my younger daughter would be married. She, uh, when she was 20 years old, roughly a span of, you know, several years, she was so ill that she was just housebound and sometimes locked away in a little soundproof closet.
You know, a little caught in that for days at a time. Now, she had a, one of her symptoms I failed to mention was, she had something the doctors called sound sensitivity, and it was really kind of an understatement. Had to wear noise cancelling headphones and, um, any little sound, you know, we, I would go visit her in her little closet.
Sometimes we would communicate by carefully passing notes back and forth because even whispering was, you know, too much for her. So I never thought I'd see the day she would be married, you know, get a life back, but she has, and that's a wonderful thing. But yeah, back to your question. My faith has been greatly strengthened through these trying times.
Now, who knows what trials, who knows what trials are yet ahead, but, uh, you know, there could be further testing in which the faith waivers, but at the present time, it's not wavering. It sounds like you've met the. You've met most of the requirements for suffering, so I pray for nothing else bad your way.
Thank you, I appreciate that. Unless it's ultimately going to help you in the end, I hope not, but you actually captured all of this in a book, A Different World, God's Sovereignty in the Face of Suffering. Can you tell us a little bit about your book? Sure, yeah, yep. First of all, the title of the book was inspired by a fellow sufferer, a man I know who was suffered.
Intensely, and he, he really didn't have his family to support as well as he should have, in my opinion. And he, he said he, he said his wife just didn't understand the fact that he lives in a different world from her. You know, she can't understand why he can't get up in the morning and do this and do that.
Um, so we said, you know, we really live in a different world, and that resonated with me, because I, that's the way that I saw our existence, you know. You know, we can't expect, that's not a criticism, we can't expect other people to expect us to live in the, you know, we can't expect them to understand. Um, like we do, you know, they don't experience the things we do.
So, we live in a different world that they really can't understand. Um, so that was the inspiration for the title of the book. And then the book briefly tells our story, and then dives into some of the hard theological, philosophical questions. Um, you know, starting with Ernst Haeckel's dis theological argument that we talked about earlier.
And then, you know, ways to push back against that, the answers to that question and then answers to those, you know, um, how does evil fit in, you know, what about evil, um, how could a sovereign God permit evil in this world and, um, and so forth. And, you know, it grapples with these hard questions, um, and hopefully brings the reader to a place where he's trusting in the true and living God, fake God we've embedded in our minds, and a God who is sovereign.
God who is completely in control, who holds our lives in the palms of his loving and sovereign hands, and, um, who will not let anything harmful happen to us in an ultimate sense. Temporally, for a time, we have all kinds of trials and afflictions. God's Word tells us so. But ultimately, we have nothing to fear and everything to gain.
Okay, so who should kind of read that book? I mean, people, would you say people who are trying to just kind of work on their faith and figure out some of the the answers, or people who are suffering, or you know, who should really focus on that book? I think that, I think the book could help two groups of people, and I'll throw in a third, three groups of people, people who aren't walking with the Lord, people who aren't Christians, who maybe want to take a look at what Christians have to offer in maybe a deeper way than what they're hearing, some of the shallow stuff that's readily available, in the hope that they would read the book and find that there are, you know, solid, philosophically sound answers, Uh, to some of these hard questions that, that atheists pose as stumpers, which really aren't stumpers.
So there's, there's one group. Uh, another group would be Christians who are suffering, but are really wavering in their faith. Um, you know, maybe they feel alone, maybe they don't realize there are other sufferers out there. But people who are struggling with the same questions that we did, I think the book could be helpful.
Uh, and then a third group, I think that could benefit from it would be Christians, Christians who haven't suffered really, um, but they have a view of God that really isn't. Um, adequate. Their God is a little too small. Now, you mentioned liking the Old Testament. I love the Old Testament. You quoted Deuteronomy a couple times.
I know people who've, who've dedicated themselves to reading the Bible in a year, which is really not that big a deal in my opinion. It's only three and a quarter chapters a day. I know people who've dedicated themselves to, you know, reading, they sign up for a read the Bible in a year program or something like that.
They start in Genesis. And Genesis is easy. It's a bunch of stories. It's a bunch of narratives. Um, then they get to Exodus, and the first half is easy. It's stories. The second half, they start to get a little bogged down. And then Numbers, Deuteronomy, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, and they quit. They just, yeah, they can't take it, and they quit.
Um, I read I've come to love those books. I love Deuteronomy, and I think that if you look at those books with a different eye, instead of looking at the Bible as something to read as, you know, bedtime entertainment, look at it as a way to unlock a door to the very mind of God. And, you know, you really want to get to know God, know who He is and what He is like.
And I think that those books that people overlook in the Old Testament are Some of the key books to really getting to know God, um, you know, there's debates in the church about whether or not we're, um, under the, you know, civil law and the ultimate, ultimate ceremonies have been done away with. I, you know, they, they pointed forward to Christ.
We don't have to do the animal sacrifices anymore and that sort of thing, but they all still had meaning and they all still, you know, reveal God to us. You know, you want to know God, and also, I think that if you really dig into the Old Testament, um, now you find this in the New Testament as well, for sure, it's the same God, He hasn't changed, uh, especially books like Revelation, um, but if you, if you dig into the Old Testament, and you read it carefully, thoughtfully, I think you will develop a fear of God, you know, a healthy fear of God.
And I think the church lacks that. So, I guess the third, so anyway, back to your question. The third category would be Christians who have too small a view of God. I think they perhaps could benefit from reading the book. Getting to know a God that's maybe a little bigger than they had realized. I really like that little conversation we just had there about Old Testament and New Testament.
Because, Old Testament is a God based perspective, you know, and New Testament is a human based perspective. And it makes sense because God came down in the form of man in the New Testament. I remember after finishing the Old Testament and moving into the New Testament, I was like, Wow, this reads fast.
This is easy reading. I like this. Like you said, not just because of the content, but the structure as well is a much easier reading. Old Testament was written in Hebrew and New Testament was written in Greek. I don't know if maybe it's just different writing styles, but in general, it's a lot easier to read.
Even if I have what some people call the baby's Bible, I have the New International Version, very easy to read. And, um, you know, so even then the Old Testament is still quite a bit. And for those of you who read King James Version, I'm sure the Old Testament is quite a lot. But yeah, I think it's, I really do think you.
Need to have a more God centered mind in the Old Testament, uh, because there is a lot of suffering. There is a lot of discipline. You know, the New Testament's easy. It's all about mercy and love. But the Old Testament is about discipline and acknowledging that humans, you know, make bad decisions, that we choose evil, that we failed.
I mean, there's a story of how we failed God over and over again, a God who was out there searching for us, you know. And then the New Testament is God comes and picks us up because, you know, we just weren't going to Him. And you also see, in the Old Testament though, some of the most dedicated, you know, servants of God.
I mean, there's plenty of Christians who say, I'm dedicated to God. And then if, like, uh, Ezekiel, you know, if you were asked, Okay, well, we go lay on your side for a, you know, what is like a XYZ amount of days and then make your food over human feces, people would be like, oh, well, I don't know about all of that, you know, there's a lot of us who are saying I'm here.
I'm answering the call. But you do see some really dedicated people to God and you see people who are dedicated to God who suffer, you know, I mean, Moses, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, um, they all, they all suffered, you know, a lot. And I'm trying to, the name is slipping my mind, the one who married Gilmer, the prostitute, and then God goes, she's gonna, you're gonna marry her and she's gonna cheat on you and you're gonna take her back and pay off her debt.
And I was like, see, it's not always easy being a man of God. Um, I love it because it highlighted, I mean, the whole story of God. There, I believe it's in Ezekiel 2, there's a chapter, Ezekiel 2 as in as well, not Ezekiel 2, just for anyone listening. In the, in the book of Ezekiel, it talks about the land as a, a woman who had nothing, God found.
I believe it, actually, I did a whole sermon on this, it's either 22 or 28, it's somewhere in the 20s. And God basically likens the land and his people to a woman that, that had nothing, God came and took care of her when no one else did, and you know, he gave her all this beautiful stuff, and then she, and married her, and then she betrayed him for, for, and used the gifts he gave her for, for idol worship, for all this stuff, and it, basically God likens, you know, um, his relationship with all of humanity into this, this romance story, Uh, where ultimately, we betray God, and uh, that, I don't know, for me that was the most heartbreaking, uh, chapter in the Bible I've ever read, and, and there's a lot of them.
Uh, so yeah, I know that's a whole side rant from what you said, but I really like what you said that, is, is a, I think, it's so important for the Old Testament because, you, it gives you such a better appreciation, you talked about animal sacrifices, and, some people are like, that history isn't important, that was an awful practice, but, you know, You look at what that meant when you look at Jesus Christ and in the blood.
I mean You need to read the old testament to have such an appreciation Of the new testament as well as god and a better understanding of his mind I feel like I know God more personally and understand him a lot more having read the Old Testament And I know it can be rough like we said numbers. I remember reading that I was like this is going forever and I've seen plenty of jokes where it's like you're just getting to the good part of the story and then you have three pages of Uh genealogy and you're like, oh man It can be like yeah It's important and a lot of the books that I reference that have really helped me understand suffering are from the old testament You know I think the New Testament talks a lot about, you know, mercy and love and the glory of, of heaven and why we suffer.
But I think the Old Testament really helped me with those, those questions that we mentioned earlier, because I mentioned the book of Jonah, the book of Job, those big questions are answered and talked about quite a bit in the Old Testament. And since we're talking about Old Testament, New Testament and Bible quotes, Mr.
Libby, what quote would you leave our listeners lift if you had to pick one? Okay, well, um, I'm going to rather than paraphrase, I'm going to read a little bit if that's okay. For sure. Um, yeah, I, I don't have a favorite life verse, I've got many favorite verses. For sure, for sure. Many favorite texts. And I think this is one that, it's one that I give some exposition of in, in some detail in the book.
Um, but this is, I think this is a very appropriate text for people. Uh, for your listeners, um, consistent with the topic that we're talking about. So, uh, second Corinthians four, um, I'm going to start at verse seven, but we have this treasure in earthen vessels to the excellence of the power may be of God, not of us.
And the treasury is talking about us, but you know, the gospel message, the gospel ministry and the, the earth and vessel, the clay jars is us like having a priceless treasure. Yeah. Correct. And then he goes on. We are hard pressed on every side, yet not crushed. We are perplexed, but not in despair.
Persecuted but not forsaken. Struck down, but not destroyed. Always caring about in the body, the dying of the Lord Jesus. The life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body for we who live, are always delivered to death for Jesus' sake. As a life of Jesus also may manifested in our mortal flesh. So then death is working in us, but life in you.
So. You know, he's saying here that, uh, you know, this life isn't gonna be a rosy little stroll down the garden path for the Christian, you know, we're, we're beaten down, we're crushed and persecuted, you know, but not destroyed. Uh, and since we have the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, I believe, therefore I spoke, we also believe, and therefore speak, knowing that he who raised up the Lord Jesus will also raise us up with Jesus.
And will present us with you for all things are for your sakes that grace having spread through the many may cause thanksgiving to abound to the glory of God. So, this purpose behind, you know, Paul's sufferings and the sufferings of the apostles presenting the gospel. Therefore, we do not lose heart, even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day for our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory.
While we do not look at the things that are, what you're seeing. But the things which are not seen, but the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal. So, you know, to have an eternal perspective isn't, isn't some unrealistic, um, pie in the sky perspective. That's the most realistic of all perspectives.
You know, this life really isn't all that there is. And, you know, the text there tells us that, first, we are going to suffer in this life. Um, you sign up for service in the army of the Lord of Hosts, you can expect to get shot at. Uh, but then he goes on to tell us that, that, uh, you know, it's all for a higher purpose, a higher purpose here.
You know, we, we, uh, the higher purpose that he talked about in this life was, you know, the spreading of the gospel. This is all for your sakes, you know, we're, we're being killed all day long so that you can live. But then there's a higher purpose eternally as well. The sufferings, the momentary light afflictions here are working for us an eternal weight of glory in the life to come.
Amen. He called his sufferings momentary and light, and if you look at the things that Paul suffered, they weren't momentary and they weren't light from a human perspective, but they were from a heavenly perspective, and that really changes everything. It changes everything. Keep that perspective. Sign up in the Lord's army.
There's no better place to serve. When you do, expect to get shot at, expect to suffer, and expect to win gloriously in the end, because that is what's going to happen. Well, I think that's a great way to end this show, but ladies and gentlemen, if you want more of Mr. David Libby, we, you know, you can find him on other podcasts, and additionally, I'll have links in the description below to his book, so y'all can check that out and get some, read it, and even if you're the spouse or child of someone who is suffering and you're having a hard time preaching to them, or, with them.
This book might offer a different perspective into that different world that they're living in. So please be sure to check that out. But Mr Libby, thank you so much for coming on the show. I appreciate having you. And thank you, Mr. Whiskey. It's been a pleasure. Thank you very, very much.
