Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode. A couple of nukes, as always, on your host, Mr. Whiskey. And for those of you who aren't aware, we are on YouTube now, so you can catch this on YouTube at a couple of nukes.
Or Mr. Whiskey, whatever you wanna prefer. But I am here with Noah Asher, an author, and an overcomer of chaos. And for those of you watching, if you see my background. Just renovated my studio. So I got a green screen set up right now. This is actually what an AI interpreted chaos was. I said, make a chaotic landscape.
I said, this looks pretty nice, doesn't it? Yeah, I mean, it looks like this is what happens after you overcome chaos. So I think the AI was one step ahead of me and said, we're gonna be talking about overcoming chaos, so I'm gonna make a background that's, you know, the calm after the storm. So Noah, so glad to have you here and.
Tell us about overcoming chaos and what kinds of chaos. Yeah. Um, thanks for having me. And uh, this book is called Chaos. Overcoming the Overwhelming, and I actually just got back from doing a festival this weekend where Awesome won an award. So now it's officially a awesome award-winning book, which is really cool.
Super thankful. Uh, but yeah, so this book is a Christian nonfiction sort of book. Uh, some people refer to it similar to like a self-help sort of book, but we go through different passages and scripture where we look at people like Joseph and how he went from a pit to a palace and how uh, if he can do it, we can do it because his God is our God.
And so we, we go through stories like that in scripture, uh, just to point people to victory. And, uh, this book is. I use the word chaos, but it's really a placeholder for, for any sort of chaos that someone's going through, right? Uh, the cover, if you see the cover, it'll have an umbrella and it's a bunch of different words raining down upon the umbrella.
And it's words like rejection, loss, illness, incarceration, um, addiction, uh, divorce, uh, job loss. So the, the list is endless. There's good news is that no matter what our chaos is, uh, there's victory for us all. And so that's what the book overall is about. Yeah. Right. And you know, I wanna say for my listeners out there who aren't religious, you know, you've heard me say this before, I'll say it again, whether you believe it or not, the Bible is a good book, full of wisdom, right?
They're the scriptures. Whether you believe God was involved or not. There are plenty of scriptures that are just good advice in general. You know, the, the analogies Jesus made are universal. You know, it is our moral guidelines. I mean, if you look at the laws and the societal agreements we have on what is good and bad, it pretty much matches the Bible, you know, for the most part.
And so I want to encourage you, even if you're not Christian, you know, to check out this book because we all go through struggles, you know? Right. If anything, being Christian. On one hand makes it easier and one hand makes it more difficult. You know, uh, we definitely suffer differently, but we definitely have different ways of, of dealing with that chaos.
And so, Noah, can you tell us a little bit about the chaos that has been involved in your life, and I assume the chaos that inspired, you know, this book? Yes. Uh, good question. Years ago I was incarcerated and lost everything and ended up trying to take my own life, uh, because I just thought that there was no sort of.
Coming back from this, there's no sort of hope. And, and like you said, that there's a lot of great truths in, in scripture for Christians and non, but I'll say that the difference for me as a Christian is that I feel like sometimes it's that hope part that makes it easier, right? When you, when you do, uh, know who Jesus is.
And for me, that's all I had in that, that moment. And I remember crying out to God like, God, if you love me, you know you'll let me die because I was just so miserable. When he didn't do it. Um, I got, I got angry with him, but then I tried to take it into my own hands and take my own life and it just obviously didn't work.
'cause here I am. But, um, in that moment, I realized that I needed hope, I needed help, I even needed humor. And so I decided while locked up, I was gonna like, write something to myself as like an encouragement to myself and to my family of one of those, you know, we're gonna get through this, that sort of message.
It was really therapeutic for myself to say those things. And, uh, once I got home I, I've been able to do pretty well for myself and my mom actually gave me this box and where she kept all these letters and I was like, wow. And I sif it through 'em and I started organizing it all. And I took some of what I wrote while locked up even, um, and started formulating this book.
But then I started formulating things from. After my chaos and how I started walking through, uh, what I call in my book, the aftermath and how that looks for people. And I started formulating this, and this is how I came up with this book. And, um, that's what chaos is. So like I, I break it up into three sections, okay?
The first section is prepare and it's once the storm. Um, we know it's coming because reality is no matter how cool you are, how awesome you are in life. Storms always come and we can prepare for it. And so we look at what that looks like and, uh, through the prepare, there's about five, six chapters on that.
And then we go into the meat of the book, which is in the midst. And it's okay once the storm comes, once the enemy arrives, and we're, we're gonna have to battle, what do we do? And so we walk through really, okay, we have pain. How do we find purpose in it all? And then the third section is the aftermath.
And this whole section is. About, okay. Once the storm dissipates and the enemy retreats, a lot of times we're left with rubble and we have to rebuild. And so the whole third section of the book is how do we rebuild properly? Right. And you know, there's a few things I wanna touch on there. The first being, you know, your struggles with suicidal ideations.
You know, it's is very biblical in a sense. You know, Elijah asked God to take his life. You know, Jonah, you know, all these great men in the Bible. When they suffered, then, you know, they called out. So for everyone out there who's thinking, you know, I can never be someone or I can never do anything good for God because I've struggled, I've wanted to take my own life.
It, it is a common thing, you know, I mean, this world can be overwhelming and when you turn to God, you know he's not gonna take your life. He's gonna show you the purpose he has for it. Uh, you know, so that, I think that's something very beautiful. And I like the three parts. I mean, I think it's, it's, it's very great the, the prepare in the midst, in the aftermath.
And I think something we've talked about a lot on the show is the aftermath stage being the determining factor for your life. Because there's a lot of people who adopt this victim mindset and stay stuck, you know, they stay in the storm, so to speak. You know, they, the storm has passed them, but they're staying in it mentally.
And so choosing not to have a victim mindset is something we've talked about a lot. Because you can just have self wallowing, pity parties and be like, you know, this happened to me. Woe is me. You know, it was better that, yeah, I wouldn't have been born. So that being said, one thing I do wanna ask real quick here.
Your name is biblical, is that, you know, it's coincidence, God's little inside joke, or was that from your parents? They planned that on purpose. Like is Noah? Yeah, it's biblical. It is crazy how it all works out this, this way. But for, for the name Noah. Um, for listeners that may not know, but he's the one who in scripture we see building an arc and.
Um, what's so crazy about that story? Uh, is this, this first story I opened up with in my book, actually. Oh, wow. And I talk about how, um, the storm came and, uh, while Noah was prepared, storms are still not always easy and a lot of destruction came with that storm and that flood, not just for his life and but for everyone's life on the world, in the world.
But, um, it was the rainbow after the storm where. God provides it and goes, I'm not gonna do it the same way again. And a lot of times we have to understand in our chaos, there's that hope of, um, storms come, but there's something beautiful that comes out of it and it's the rainbow. And, um, so yeah. Yeah, that's kinda, it is kind of crazy and, um, Asher literally means happy, um, in the Bible.
And so it's, it's crazy that I'm able to. Discuss humor in this book because I think that right. You can joke about your, your pain and you can joke about your chaos. You take ownership over it instead of it owning you. And, uh, I, I just think that this was a very crucial part of me adding the, the humor part to this book.
And it's not like I'm sharing, uh, not, not jokes, but we're Right, sharing fun and things like that throughout the book. Um, some, some little wit throughout, but yeah. Um, but that's what the name is. And then also you were talking about the, the pity party. Right. I wanna go back to that. There's actually a chapter in my book called EOR Syndrome and EOR with eor.
I, I give it up for Winnie the Pooh, and Piglet and Tigger and all those guys. Because literally like when I saw, when I saw that show growing up and uc, er and he always thinks there's a cloud over his head. And um, I would just be like, dude, I'm either gonna run from him or I'm gonna pop him. Uh. A Xanax, you know, he needs, he needs something.
Um, yeah. But it's that pity party. And that was for me, even locked up. I was having those, I called my family, like looking back on it, I'm so thankful my family stuck around me. 'cause I'd call 'em Amen. I'm like, what are y'all doing? And they're going to get steaks. And I'm like, cool. I'm eating plop. You know?
And I'm like, why am I tearing them down? They're free. Like that's not their fault. And. In hindsight, I look back and go, I'm so thankful they stuck by me when I was ior. But I talk about in the book, the transition for me was going, I'm gonna stop saying God, why me? And start saying, God, use me. Right? And that was the transition out of my pity party and into my purpose.
You know, you mentioned it, actually, it reminds me of my time in the military service. You know, there. Any, any place you work, there's gonna be a coworker who, you know, they call it negativity, vomit, you know, they're just always expelling negativity on onto everyone. Never satisfied. And, you know, I props to people, like you said, who, who stick around with those people because at, at the end of the day, you know, they're not bad people at all.
You know, it's just, they just constantly expel and it's always, you know, a, a pessimistic view. And we've actually talked before on my show about how. You know, negativity and positivity are based on momentum, but it's like, it is so much easier for negativity to just build up fast. You know, positivity is like, everything is constantly trying to break it down.
And so to maintain a positive mindset can be so difficult when you have those negative thoughts just playing over and over again, and then anything inconvenient happens, it just stacks onto it. Yeah, and one of the things we talk about is, you know, starting the morning in prayer. Or if you're not religious, just being grateful when you wake up.
Right. For, for me and other religious people, we wake up, we thank God for this day for my health. Like I always thank 'em for everything because a lot of people take it for granted. You know, I woke up, I can use my legs and arms. You know, I didn't have a stroke. I didn't not wake up and I still have a roof over my head.
It's a beautiful day. And you know, I try to be positive always, even like. Today, like where I am right now, it's flooded out. Like I can't even walk my dog. It's flooded and, but you know, I say, God, thank you for water in the plants, for water in the earth. Like, you know, try to have that positive mindset now.
Yeah. Were you religious prior to imprisonment? And if so, like Yeah. So that challenge it, right? Because obviously right. You know, you're there and you're like, God, why me? And, and you have all these people around you trying to break you down. You also have a lot of scriptures, like you said about people who were in prisons.
One of the most common themes in the Bible actually. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it's kind of crazy, but I grew up going to church and I grew up knowing God, and um, I think you may understand where, what I mean by this, but Right. It's like I knew God, but I did not have a relationship with him. And that was the, the difference, um, knowledge of a relationship.
Uh. It was never good. Um, but, so I had all this knowledge and I, I knew things but just did not really rely on him. And then I was at a place literally of chaos with, within the, the prison system where I had no choice but to rely on him. Right? And it taught me so much, and it groom me. And, and to, to build a relationship on a, a stronger foundation, just simply because.
It was me and God versus the world at that point. Um, that's all I had. And I'm, I look back and I go, you know, I'm not, I, I don't wish prison on anyone, definitely myself, right? But I will look back and say that that prison time set me up. It was not a setback. It was a set up for, for greater things. And, um, but it's because of my faith that I can look back now and say that and Right.
You know, we just celebrated Easter and I think a lot about how, you know, Friday we call it Good Friday, but on that actual Friday, no one was calling it good. It wasn't until, yeah, after Sunday happened and the resurrection of Jesus happened, could we look back and say Friday was good? And I think for a lot of people, um, when they're in the midst of their chaos.
It's hard to say that Friday is good, right? But there will come a moment when they get through their chaos and they go, you know what? It was good because Sunday has happened. And I think that's the overall goal for, for everyone is to, to understand that this is only a moment. I, I was on vacation one time and we're on the side of this mountain and it was a one lane road, but traffic was going both ways.
It was crazy. Very dangerous. But all of a sudden, uh, it started pouring down rain and we could not see in front of us, beside us or behind us. So we just had to stop for a moment. Jesus take the wheel quite literally. Yeah. Literally. Jesus, take the wheel and, um, that's great. And we were sitting there and like, just stressed, but confused and scared for sure.
But then all of a sudden the, the rain let up and we could see again. And that means we could go forward again. I think a lot of times when we're in the midst of our chaos, we can't see in front of us, beside us or behind us, and all we feel like we can do is stop, you know, curl up into a ball and curl up into the fetal position and just lay there.
Um, but there's good news. The storm does end and we will be able to go forward. Again, I can't give you exact day and time, but there's good news that it will end.
Yeah, and you know, there's, we got so much to talk about. I, I love talking religion, so. One thing you said, you know, having, knowing God but not having a relationship with him. And one of the quotes we've referenced a lot on my show, and it's a quote that I love, but it is also scary quote. And, um, my, my one buddy who records with me Big Red, he's terrified of this quote of it being true when Jesus said, you know, truly I tell you that these people will come up to me and say, we did all these works in your name and we know you and Jesus will say.
Away from me, you evil doers. I never knew you, you know, and, and that the whole purpose of that quote is knowing of Jesus and knowing Jesus, like you said, knowing God or having a relationship with God. It's such a fantastic but scary quote to think that this might happen, you know? And it has us rethink our relationship with God.
Um, another. Favorite, uh, Bible scene for me is, you know, everyone's scared and Jesus is just taking a nap in the ship. And, you know, they're begging him wake up and, and talking about being calm in the, in the storm and, you know, relying on Jesus. And it feels like that, you know, especially down here on, on Earth, when Jesus, even though he is with us, always, you know, up in heaven, see that the right hand of the Father, you know, it's like.
You're driving your car and it's like, Jesus is there, but it seems like he's sleeping in the back of the car, you know, and you're like, I, I'm gonna go off the side of the mountain here. Like, Jesus, wake up, help me here. Um, yeah, what I love is I reference a lot Jonah and Job, and I'm curious if those were, you know, scriptures that you reflected on a lot, especially, you know, in prison, uh, you know, with job feeling like you know God, why this and that, and then having that whole.
Is there any point in, in your imprisonment where you were angry with God, where you accused him, you know, the way Job did, and you kind of argued with him? Or was it that silence and complete reliance on him just, it was just full of love, like you were like, Lord, I have no other choice but to respect and understand your will.
Yeah. Um, I, I think a lot of times when they're in their pity party that people. Or not only upset with their circumstance, but then they turn to who can I blame for my circumstance? Right. And um, I would say that I definitely had those moments where I had, um, not so good revelation of just going like, why me?
God? Like, why are you doing this to me? Right? Where's your protection on me that I've heard so much about? You love me, yet you have me in the worst place ever. And. It was like more of that revelation for Joe, where he goes, you know, God, you've given me what I've had, so up to this point. And so if you give, you take either way, I'm gonna praise you.
And for me, that, um, had to play out for me. It was turning to, uh, like Paul's life and here Paul was trying to do things for God and he was incarcerated. And the, the sad part was that. It was not something he had done wrong. It is just simply being a Christian. And what happened with him was, and this, this is what changed my life, was that moment for, for Paul, who's not even in his own chaos because of something he did, right?
He sat there and he praised God. Um, like in Philippians, Philippians most theologians says, says, that's one of the happiest. Excuse me. Most joyous books in the Bible, right? He or he's in Prisoned. Yeah. And he's is in prison. I'm like, how is that even possible? And it's, uh, Philippians 1 27, I believe, where it says Whatever happens, conduct yourselves in a manner are worthy of worship.
Right. And the fact that he could sing praise while he was in pain was mind blowing to me. I had to like really study and lean into that and I talk about it, you know, Dory from finding emo, she says the same thing. She says, whatever happens, you know what I do when life gets me down? Just keep swimming.
Just keep swimming. It's the same concept, biblical concept there, that whatever happens, just keep praising and. I had to like lean into that and go, I'm gonna right. I'm out of other options. Let me at least try this option. And that is where peace came in the most for me, was to go, um, songs that I remember, you know, hearing on the radio and, and hearing growing up in church, to be able to sit there and kind of just hum 'em in my head or.
You know, singing 'em in my head, I'm definitely not singing out loud in prison. But, um, but just to be able to sing those songs and, and like reflect on those songs were very therapeutic, but also just a sense of peace would come over me like no other, uh, is, is so indescribable or indescribable. Right. And that's exactly what, um.
Jesus's peace is referred to in scripture, right? Is unexplainable peace. Not as the world gives you, but as I give you. Yeah. Yeah. Now, uh, first off, ladies and gentlemen, you'll find no Asher's website in the description below for this episode, both on YouTube and wherever you get your podcast. But if I'm not mistaken, if I read it correctly, you're currently working with Georgia to get it, to get some of these books to the prisons correct?
Yeah, so not only Georgia, so we're working with all states, all across the, the country. Oh, awesome. Awesome. We're doing some really cool things where we're, um, right now we're working on physical copies. All proceeds for this book provide physical copies inside prison libraries and rehab centers across America.
Um, but the prison system now also has given inmates tablets. And so one thing that we're working on, there's different, uh, companies who provide like, uh, software for these tablets. And we're actually working with one right now to, uh, put the PDF version of the book on their tablets. So all they have to do is click it and they can, they can read it.
Wow. Their tablet that, yeah. That is so amazing. You know, because there's a huge negative stigma, you know, with people who are imprisoned, unfortunately. And I think they need our help. You know, and that's why I love actually Johnny t um, who that episode came out not too long ago. He runs Refuge Freedom Stories and it's a Canadian ministry dedicated to helping young juveniles and, and juvenile delinquents after they get out to reform, turn their life to God and have a second chance at life.
And I think, you know. I mean, definitely focus on the youth, but I think also, you know, full grown men and women who have been in prison, they want a second chance at life. Right. May, maybe not all of them. Right? You know, I can't speak for all of them, but you know, I wanna say that they want a second chance at life.
And I mean, and, and you're proof that there is life after the storm you can rebuild, you know? And I think people get intimidated too by the process of rebuilding, realizing, you know, you gotta take it one small step at a time. I assume that's how you did it one step at a time. And in fact, I. How long did it take you to write this book?
Yeah, I, so some of it was written, locked up, but all of the actual writing and completion to getting it to the publisher took about three years. And it was, it was really, because I don't feel like I could talk, of course, about rebuilding and the aftermath until I was in it myself, but, right. Um, that's one thing you said about taking these little steps.
I, I say that all the time about this. Concept of overcoming the overwhelming isn't always okay. I'll know I've overcome my overwhelming when I shake hands with the president. Sometimes overcoming the overwhelming is saying, you know what? Today I've been laying in bed for the past week just paralyzed for my pain.
Today I'm gonna get up, I'm gonna get dressed. I'm gonna brush my teeth, and I'm gonna try to do something productive that's overcoming today. Those little steps end up being big steps. You're gonna look back on every little step you took, you're gonna look down and you're gonna realize, wow, I, I, um, made it all the way up the staircase.
You know? And that's right. Ultimately, what you're gonna want to do in that situation anyway, because sometimes these big leaps are what, um, makes the, you know, the fall, the crash and burn even harder, you know? Right. But, um, so that's definitely something you, when you said that, I was like, yes, that's top-notch.
That's good. And for me, writing this book was such a success, but it doesn't matter if I'm not getting it into the hands of people who need it. Right. And for me, again, I spoke on hope, help, humor, but I also, the overall theme for this book though, is helping people find purpose in their pain. Because I think, uh, and I can, I can attest to this, I've been around a lot of people who the world would deem dangerous.
I can tell you right now, there's no one more dangerous in the world than someone who has nothing to live for. Right. Bottom line, a hundred percent. And so, yeah, we have to provide people with purpose and that's what's cool right now. Um, this month is a national, um, second chance month is what April is.
And we're doing some really cool things right now to work on some second chance stuff. But I was talking to a US Senator. Last week, and we were talking about recidivism race, and I said, man, if we wanna fix recidivism, we fix rehabilitation. Let's give these men and women a chance to, to come back into the world, because I'm telling you some of these, some of these jobs who don't give people a chance, I just shake my head going, why?
Because honestly, you're, you're afraid of them. Well, you should be even more afraid by not hiring these men and women because when they're desperate, right? That's when they act out again. Yeah. These men and women come out of the system and honestly, they're better workers because they want to prove to themselves and to the world that they're, they're in it this time to, to do well.
Yeah. And um, when I got, when I got out, I went and applied for a front desk position at a popular hotel chain, and they hired me, they gave me a chance. Within three weeks, they made me the general manager, which was crazy. Then I moved up into director of operations and then I ended up leaving on my own free will to start my own business, which was a crazy, uh, choice.
'cause I had such a good job and I've, I've talked to people in the system who are like, why would you give that up? I'm like, because I know God has other things in in place for me, one being what I'm doing right now. And I had to give up this great job to do what I'm doing now. And, um, but I say all that to say that I would reach out to these general managers that worked under me, and I would tell 'em, reach out to these transitional centers in halfway houses.
Hire these men and women. Give them a chance because they're gonna show up and they're gonna, they're gonna be there. If you tell 'em to be there at eight, they're gonna be there at seven 50. They're gonna come ready to work because they've been sitting around for so long. They're ready. They're itching to like get started right at rebuilding their life.
And that's what we're doing in the state of Georgia right now. We're working on a new bill, hopefully that will get passed by the governor, um, hopefully later this year. But the whole goal of this bill will to make it mandatory for everyone to do the last 12 months of their sentence in a transitional center or halfway house.
And that alone is gonna change the game. It's gonna make it where people, um, get out of prison. Um, and have money in their bank account so they can get housing, they can get, um, you know, a vehicle so they can get to and from work. And at this point in the transitional center process, this means they would've already have gotten a job.
And so it's setting them up for success. Um, right now, I know so many people, they would get out and I'm like, uh, this is awesome. You're getting out tomorrow. Who's getting you? And they're like, I have, they had nothing. That's insane that you just throw them, throw them to the wolves like that? Yes. They give them a little visa debit card with $30 on it and say like, and, and they also send you like transportation.
And they go, um, we'll send you somewhere within 20 mile radius. Where do you want us to take you? And a lot of times it's too like a center with $30 in their pocket and they have to figure things out. Wow. And that's just impossible. Um, I, I don't, I mean, I own my own home, but I know some people who rent, they tell me that, you know, they have to have first months, last months, and then like a deposit.
That alone can be three, $4,000. And so how do these men and women have three or $4,000? How do they do it? Well, in their minds, they think, well, the only way to get that money quick is to do something illegal. Yeah. And so they go back to their old ways very quickly. That's where recidivism comes in. Wow.
Yeah. We basically set them up for failure, you know? Yeah. That's insane. I hope your bill gets passed because I think that would be great. You know, instead of just throwing them into the world, we kind of had this hold their hand a little bit transition and, and give them a chance. And not just financially, we get them accustomed to people.
I mean, we gotta think of the, the social deprivation of prison is entirely different. Social structure, you know, I don't know if you know how that works. And do you still, do you ever visit, uh, prisons and, and talk to prisoners as a counselor or anything, or, uh, not in a council form. I'm doing when I'm, I'm doing a lot of book signings right now, and when I go to these town in these cities, I do try to schedule jails and prisons, but also addiction centers to share my story.
Amen. Um, and one of the things that I love is that I never hear, oh, you don't know what I'm going through. 'cause I do. You know, and that's what's really cool. I remember being locked up and, you know, we'd have people from local churches come in and you have these guys who I'm so thankful they came. So no offense to them.
They're, I'm so thankful they came. Um, but they didn't have like a story, you know, I, I know what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. And what would happen is they would sit there and tell me. I'm gonna get through this and I'm like, am I though? Like how do you know that? Show me, like show me proof, you know? And, um, that's what I love is that I can go and share my story and give these guys hope.
Because that's one thing that a lot of these guys will sit around and do. They'll sit there and be like, oh, well, you know, the system's against us. And I only took a, you know, a few year sentence sort of, you know, deal. And I was thinking when I took that plea deal, was I really taking a life sentence? I. Is this taking my whole life from me?
Because that's what it made it sound like. Right. And I realized when I was told, okay, you have a week left, you're gonna go home in a week? Wow. I was so excited. All I could think about was like, pizza and wings, you know, good food. Yeah. And then all of a sudden a rush of just anxiety came over me going, right, crap.
Like, this is real now what am I, what's, what am I gonna run into? Um, what am I gonna have to deal with? And it was so, so scary for me. Um, I look back now going, these, these men and women in these, in these places need to know that when they get out, they do have a chance to survive. And, um, that's something we're doing just as myself, as a, as a citizen of my local community right now.
I texted a friend of mine who's over like the chamber in my city. And I said, Hey, there's these new, um, the Second Chance Act that just was uh, passed. They're working on doing these local reentry coalitions where they help people with jobs. And I said, you guys are already existent. You know, these, these chambers are already existing and every community.
And I'm like, you already work with businesses? Can I just get with you and tell you what businesses could do to Right. You know, really help the, and change the game. We, we met, um, earlier this week or, yeah, I guess it was this week. It's been a long week, but, uh, it was earlier this week and she's already texted me and she's like, this is what we're gonna do.
And we're already working on things and I'm going, I cannot wait for it to start 'cause this is gonna be kinda like my little test city. If it works here, we're gonna start presenting it to the nation on how we can, um, help communities see that when. Um, a, a business hires someone who has a, a, a background on their background check that they go, oh, wow, that was cool of the business, versus going, oh, I can't believe that business would do that.
Right. It's changing the stigma around it and letting people know that if you want these, a lot of these men and women that come home, they're, they're fathers, they're mothers, and it's like, even if you don't believe in them. Please give them a chance so they can now. Thrive for the sake of their children.
You know, like look at it that way if you have to. I don't care how you look at it, but bottom line is give these people a second chance. It was Michael Scott on the office who says, everyone deserves a second chance. A second, second chance is what he says. Right? Um, but Michael Scott is true. He's always right.
And, uh, the office is always right. And, but that's, that's really how we have to look at it. And so it's breaking that stigma and letting people know. Um, when they come home, give 'em a chance and, um, let 'em, let 'em come back and fight for their freedom again to, to to be successful. You know, I completely understand where you're coming from in the sense that when it comes to like talking with active duty military or veterans or law enforcement, it's the same kind of thing where it's like.
You know, if you didn't go through that, like if you're a counselor or talking to us, it's like you just don't understand. That's why there's such a big disconnect from civilians to military within their relationships, you know, uh, romantically with their family. That's why that isolation kind of happens because it's like y'all just don't understand anymore, and it's not that y'all are, are stupid, it's just like you have to go through it to actually understand it.
Same way with, with you and, and what. I'm glad that you're giving back, and I wish that more prisoners would give back to the, to their own people, so to speak. But, you know, a lot of them, I think they're like, want to forget that life. Like, I'm gone. I was, that never happened. You know? That's not who I am.
Right. But I think we have to embrace every part of ourself, you know? And actually, I want to ask you, you know, when you talk about the, the rebuilding part of your life, you know, in, in your book, in, in your personal philosophies. Do you speak of it as a community project or a individual project, or a mix of both?
You know, like what is your view on how important and, and what role other people play in helping you rebuild your life? Uh, community is everything. Uh, I can give it on a, uh, you'll like this, uh, I think analogy or example. But, um, the Greeks used to use a form of, of strategy and battle where they would stand in one line.
It was called hop light, H-O-P-L-I-T. Okay. Hop light. And they would all stand in a line and they would hold the weapon in the right hand and the shield in their left. And the idea was, as the enemy approached 'em, if they would fight for the person on the right and shield the person on their left, and as long as they all work together, they would win.
They'd be successful. But if just one person broke that line. Everything would start falling apart like Domino's. Right? And I think that ultimately that's what we have to understand is we, when we get out of our chaos, no matter what the chaos is, it can be divorce. You know, walking through rejection and loneliness.
It, you have to have that support No matter what your chaos is. It's finding hop light sort of community and hop light sort of, uh, friends in your life. Who will stand on that line with you, and they'll fight for you and they'll defend you. And, uh, on a biblical level, it is Mark chapter two, where these four friends lower their friend, their paralyzed friend to Jesus through the roof.
Yeah. And Jesus looks up at the, the friends, not at the paralyzed man. He looks up at the friends and he says, by your faith guys, your friend is healed. And that right there is also very, very important is to have people in your life. When you are just too paralyzed from your pain to move, you have friends who will willingly pick you up and lower you to Jesus.
Amen. Pray through prayer, through protection, through even coming over and going, Hey, we're just gonna, we're gonna play some corn hole, you know, and just throw, throw some bags and hang out it. It doesn't matter how it looks. Bottom line is you just need people that will show up. And that's what's important, um, no matter what phase of life you're in.
And you know, that's one question I do get asked a lot from inmates is, do you have, or did you have support when you got out? And I go, I, I did, I had great family and I'm always afraid to tell them I'm not gonna lie to 'em. But I, I hate when they ask me that question. Right, because I feel, I feel like there's a wall that goes up for some of these guys who go, right, there's a disconnect because I don't have that when I get out.
Right. Like, you, that's why you're successful. And I'm like, yeah, I, I, I understand where they're coming from, but I know a lot of people in, in my life even that I call family that are not blood family, but they're my family now because they, they are MyLight, my highlight team, ride or die. It's, it, it takes you stepping out sometimes and finding that community.
And sometimes the church is a great place to find that community. Um, you know, you may go with the wrong intentions. It may not be to go for Jesus at first, but just go in and find a small group and get involved at least, and you're gonna find some great community there. Um, I told somebody the other day, I said, I know that you don't, um, struggle with alcoholism, but.
Go to aa. And he's like, why? I said, because you're gonna find a group of people that will listen to you and accept you. They do not care about what you've been through because they're all having their own struggles. Go there and, and just open up and let them know that, hey, I have a past and um, I need support as well, and they're gonna welcome you in.
So I've literally sent people to AA just to, with no alcohol problems, just to be like, find that community there. So there are options for people. Even if you don't have a, a family when you get out of your chaos or while you're in the midst of your chaos. Um, but yeah, family and friends, I mean, they're everything for, um, for people to, to be successful.
Yeah, I gotta say it's a, a beautiful story you shared from the Bible there and you know what? There are so many stories in the Bible of someone else's faith healing someone else, you know? And we say a lot in my church groups, you know, I. We, we'll, we'll pray for you. And that's, that's the greatest thing we can do for one another is, is pray for each other.
You know, that's, that's really the ultimate thing we can do, especially in situations where we feel like, what can I do? You know, there's a lot of times where we, we will have friends or family call us up with some kind of situation. There's nothing you can do to help them other than, and then pray for them and listen to them and that, that is beautiful.
And like you said, it, it could be the small thing you said. You mentioned cornhole. Um. Bean bag tossed. 'cause I'm originally from the north, but now that I'm down south, I call it cornhole. You know, that I gotta blend in, drink sweet tea and all that. But, um, my one buddy, um, 'cause I've had a lot of suicide prevention hands on, uh, in the military.
And one of my buddies had one of those nights and he asked me, Mr. Whiskey, can we just go out for a car ride? Of course. I'm like, man, it's so late at night. I gotta wake up, you know, four o'clock in the morning, like. But I went with him, you know, he said, no destination, just go out for a drive. Maybe stop at a gas station if we want and, and get a slushy.
But you know, we just went out for a drive and, and he talked and then there was a lot of time where it was just silence. And, but that silence was me listening to him say nothing. As crazy as that is, is sometimes they just need company. But they don't want to express themselves, but they want company.
Right. And, and that sounds crazy, but I, I've shared this before in my podcast, you know, especially, um, we've discussed how it's a good, if you're, if you're a parent and you're having trouble talking to your kids, it's like sitting down at home on the bed or the couch, it almost feels disciplinary or it's like, um, an authority, you know, parental kind of thing.
If you go out for a car, it's an intimate space, but a distance space, right? You're not making eye contact and, and you're just going for a drive. And so I always recommend that, um, or calling a hole. I mean, that's a good time too. Uh, yeah. But what, whatever it is, you know, support one another. And speaking of support and, and sharing with one another, one of the things I like to do is share Bible quotes with my friends, especially my friends of faith who are struggling with, with things, you know, try to send them some verses of Bible to help them.
What would you say, do you have a, because I know you use a lot of scripture in your book, but do you have a, a favorite quote or a particular set of quotes that really helps you? Or maybe you have one for each occasion? I, I don't know, but you know, what would you share with us today? I tend to, to switch it up here.
Yeah. Like you said, depending on my situation. Uh, one verse and I'm gonna pull it up 'cause I don't wanna share it wrong. Um Right. I'll get somebody on social media tearing me up or said the verse wrong. Um, but it's, uh, Isaiah 43 too, my phone. My phone's not working. My phone's literally frozen. You guys, Isaiah's always a good one.
There would be those who hear but don't listen. Yeah. And the thing about, uh, 43, 2, and, and a lot of times I find myself like looking up like a whole passage, you know, like a story. Okay. Where it, I, I love stories and so like to read like the story of Jonah and, and to see how his life, right. Bottomed out in how we can do that.
Um, how we can overcome, like he did, you know, those sorts of things tend to do a lot of that as well. But here's the verse that says, when you pass through the waters, I will be with you. And when you pass through the rivers, they will not sweep over you. And when you walk through the fire, you will not be burned.
The, the flames will not set you a blaze. Mm-hmm. And I, I think for a lot of people, when they're in the middle of their chaos, they. They feel like they're drowning, uh, which this verse talks about when you go through the waters, they will not, uh, sweep over you. Um, you feel like you're gonna get burned. Um, there's that analogy in this verse two and it talks about how that's not gonna, um, set you ablaze.
And so that verse is my go-to a lot of times because I think it's such a good verse of saying, Hey, when you're in the midst of your overwhelming, you will not. Be overcome. Right. And um, I think that's ultimately what I want the world to know through my story is that we all have pain, but there's purpose in our pain.
And then I believe that it's our responsibility to find out what God has wants us to make it our platform. Um, right, per se. So we go from pain to purpose to platform, and it's, it's that platform where we can lean in and go, let me help people who are going through what I've gone through. Um, I mean, the best example I can give is I know somebody who, um.
You know, had breast cancer and they didn't, they didn't ever run a race for breast cancer, uh, awareness until they got it. And then it was like, right, yes. Now I'm all about breast cancer awareness. That sort of thing is, um, sometimes you don't, there's all these races, there's all these organizations doing different things and you may not lean into or even know what the organization is until you've needed it.
And I think a lot of times. Um, it's after we've needed something like that, we can look back and go, now let me help others find this organization. And, um, that's ultimately what my team and I are working on is saying I needed it in my darkest moment. I needed hope, I needed to have someone help me get off of that ledge.
And then, um. Provide them with easy steps and easy tools to, to use to, um, just overcome. And now I want to take those steps and I wanna take those tools and I wanna provide it to everyone in the midst of their chaos, no matter what their chaos looks like, simply because I want people to feel like that they have hope, they have a reason to live.
Yeah. And what you mentioned. I was just gonna say, you know, you talk about our pain being a platform and it's interesting, uh, I just dropped a YouTube short either yesterday or the day before from my interview with Johnny t Host of Refuge Freedom Stories and he said, you know that the world is going to hell in a hand basket, so to speak, and that is a chaotic world and a lot going on.
And he said, he actually quoted, um, Isaiah in, in some other Bible verses talking about how. God is gonna rise up new methods of combating all of this chaos. And he said that he believed, uh, podcasting is, is one of those methods that God is using podcasting just as much as the devil was using social media, you know, to spread the good news and to help combat the chaos.
And so. We used to talk about turning your pain into a platform. I think it's great that we see so many podcasts being formed to help one another, to support one another, to connect with one another. And yeah, we also have books. And do you think, no. That, obviously we can't speak on God's behalf, but do you think God has another book in you or you think this is, this is the message, like this is it.
Well, I'm almost finished with this new one right now. It won't, it won't drop until probably next summer, um, is what we're looking at just because of certain things, but, um, okay. It's, it's fire. I wish I could talk about it 'cause I'm just super eager to get this book out there, but. It's, uh, it's not gonna be a, a sequel to, to the idea of what chaos is.
Um, okay. But it will always have those undertones of going, there's right, there's purpose in your pain. And, you know, it's funny what you just said about, uh, you know, how taking what the enemy, you know, was using and you know how God can use it. Right? And that's actually another verse I stick to a lot. And if you ever hear, uh.
Talking in an interview or on, you know, any sort of platform. It's about Genesis 50 20 as well. And that verse we hear a lot of times, it's the whole verse, we find it Hobby Lobby, where it says, you know what? The enemy intends for evil. God uses for good. And that's normally what we see on that verse, but the verse isn't in there.
It says what the enemy intends for evil God will use for good to save many. And when you lean into those three words of to save many, it's great because it tells you like God's not only turning things around for your sake, he's turning things around for you. Yes. But he is also turning things around so you can help others.
And that's where the platform and the purpose part comes in. And it's, it's always so funny to me how, um, the enemy, you know, we can look back at Good Friday again and we can say where these, these moments where the enemy thinks he's won. Right. And then Jesus is like LOL, like, I got you. Yeah. Got you. One better.
And, and that's what happens a lot of times, um, with these sorts of things. Like, yeah, social media can be bad. And then, uh, and the enemy thinks he's won with that, and then podcasts come around and this great Christian content comes around and God's like, well, I got one better for you. Um, yeah. And so that's what's really cool and, and it is cool to see some, some great Christian podcasts out there now.
Um, that can help people just be able to just be free and have a conversation about God, but also for listeners who may be driving or at the gym or um, at work or wherever else, and be able to listen and hear a conversation about God that may resonate with them is just, is very awesome. And because you know, the, the greatest poison of faith is doubt.
And, and the way we combat doubt besides reading the Bible is I've always said, you know, talking about God with one another, hearing each other's success stories, each other's failures, you know, that community aspect that you talked about. And you know, like, I love it 'cause my military group is scattered all across the world.
And so when they go to churches, which is a little more difficult for them active duty, but it's like. We all get different sermons and lessons, and so we'll be sharing whatever it is. And you know, coincidentally enough phrase to God, you know, this past Sunday when I just went to church, the, the lesson was about God making things to be broken on purpose to use them, and that the pastor gave a few examples.
He said the soil is broken. So that a seed can be planted to grow beautiful things. You know, clouds were made to be broken apart and spread across the earth to provide water. Wheat was made to be broken apart, to make bread. The son of God came to be broken for our redemption, and it was so beautiful. It was talking about also, you know, breaking away from your old life to get a new art in Jesus Christ.
And so not only the enemy, but God, you know, has I. Intentions with, with the things that we perceive as bad. And that's why I love Jonah and Job, you know, the, the two main questions proposed there by God is, you know, for Job, you know, can you tell me all these things? And, and he basically hits him with everything in the universe.
And Job is just like, you know, realizes how small he is in the universe, how much goes on, and then the question, you know, 'cause a lot of people. Don't actually know the story of Jonah. They know, oh, he got eaten by, you know, a big fish three days. That what they don't know is the rest of the story, which is the whole point that he went to Nineveh, that he converted.
Everyone basically saved the town and then God spared them all. And Jonah was like, no, God, kill them all. Like Sodom and Goor of these people, they're, they, they were awful. How can you forgive them like you, you just sent me on this big old journey to come here to tell them they're wrong and basically, yeah.
Through a plant and their, their little talk outside, God proposes this question to Jonah. Sum up who are you to be angry at that which is not yours. And the truth is, everything is God's, you know, nothing is ours. And even our lives, though we have free will, you know, God made us and, and he directs us and he proposes that question, who are you to be mad with what I do?
And, and when you pair that with, with Job, it's like. If you're mad about this outcome, well, you don't even know what the outcomes of that outcome is. You know, I've got things planned for you from before you were even made, you know, it's, it's all mapped out. Uh, so I just think it's, it's beautiful, you know, and I, I, I love the story of Jonah because like I said, I mean, you've been through, I've been through, I think any believer has gone through it a a point in their life where they were angry at God or upset with God, you know, whether it was something.
You've mentioned divorce, addiction, unexpected death, you know, all these things that happen out of the blue. And it's like, you know why God. And you know, one of the things I heard was you should say, you said, God, how can you use me now? Or, one thing I've heard is, God, why not me? You know? And I, I think that's great.
Um, so yeah, that's what I wanted to say on, on that part. I'm excited for it. Um, hopefully maybe I'll have you back once that that book comes out. You know, I. I know you said it's not for another summer, but I think God's good timing. You know, I think it's gonna be at the right time for the right people. Uh, I'm excited for, for chaos and, and, you know, overcoming that and I hope it reaches the right people.
And I, I, I just wanna thank you for what you're doing, you know, because you could have gotten out, started a new life and forgotten all about, you know, prison and the people there and, and all that. And you could have easily given up the faith in prison. I appreciate your, your perseverance. You know, that's what Paul said, perseverance and through all things prayer and oh, I just remembered going back to community real quick.
Uh, there was a quote where it was like, you know, friends will go away when things get bad, but a brother has made it for adversity. And we've spoken about being there through for people during their, their roughest times, their, their most negative patches in life. And so I just wanna say that you mentioned.
People who are family now, you know, who aren't actually family. And that's what that says. A brother is born for adversity, sticking with each other. And so before we wrap things up here, I just want mention that like you said, you've been on a lot of interviews and ladies and gentlemen, you can find those on his website, Lincoln description below if you'd liked him and you wanna see his, the other shows he's been on.
You've also, you wanna tell us real quick about, you've written for a couple magazines and, and news articles, correct? I've been doing a lot of, um, interviews with, uh, like articles and magazines and sorts. Uh, I talk about the book, I talk a little bit about grief, um, when I lost my dad recently. And, and I also talk about, uh, you know, fixing, how do we fix recidivism is through rehabilitation.
So a lot of those different things. And you know, to go back to what you said about not forgetting where I was, I, I think there's, that's very important is that. It was for Moses. It was, he found himself in the, in the desert, um, because he murdered someone. He ran and he in the, the desert, he started attending, uh, he started attending to a flock.
And then years later, God's going, Hey Moses, now I need you to go back to the wilderness. Right? And I need you to take my flock through the wilderness. I think a lot of times it's easy to just forget where you've been, but it's with that, you know, that resignation of like, okay, I've been there, I've done that.
I'm now going to take that and, and help others. And um, that's something I really wrestled with with this book was do I even share any of my story? I don't want this to be an autobiography by any means. Do I share my story? Or do I just kind of give people like, Hey, if you're going, if you're going through something, hope you get through it.
You know? And for me, I leaned into it because I wanted to make sure people knew that, hey, this guy's been there, done that. And it's a, uh, revelation talks about us by the words of our testimony. And so by being able to testify and say like, Hey, I know. Victory is coming for you because I've been where you've been and I've seen God come through and, and I challenge that for anyone who's listening, who has a story, like share your story because your story is what helps others, um, understand and, and find hope that you know what, Hey, I can get through this because this person is living proof of it.
And that's what I want. This book and, and all that we're doing to, to be is that there's. Proof that God is still doing miracles, um, like he did, um, all those years ago in scripture. Amen. I I think that's perfect to end off with that there, unless you have anything else to add, but I think that was beautiful, man.
That's it. Thank you so much for having me and thanks for all that you're doing. Of course. Yeah. Anything to spread the good word. I'm, I'm glad you reached out to me to be on the show and I'm, I'm looking forward to buying your book, not only. To read it for myself and, and to share it with my shipmates.
You're going through rough times, but to help those proceeds, to, to help the prisoners get the reading materials that could change their life. Yes. Thank you. Thank you.
