Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Couple of Nukes. As always, I'm your host, Mr. Whiskey, and I always encourage y'all to check out the YouTube channel, but today I especially encourage that if y'all have the chance because I am recording in person one of those very, very rare occasions.I've only done it twice before in two years, once outside during heavy windstorm, and once in a very old Rustic building that definitely was not made for podcasting, but we're here in a cute little office here in Savannah, Georgia We're gonna get into that now. I love how Everything always lines up and as we're recording today the episode that came out today on my show is actually The episode on women's pornographic addiction, the destructive nature of it, how we always focus on men being pornographically addicted, but women can fall into that as well.And we talked, unfortunately, I hate to even say it, about what happens when children are sexually abused and how it can affect their intimacy and their dating for life. And it's tragic. And that episode is very heartbreaking, I encourage you to check it out. Today we're going to pivot a little more to focusing on the men.Dating and intimacy and the recovery from that, that aspect. I am here with a guest who excels in that, and as she said on her show, she talks about intimacy is, tell us, you say Into me, you see. You see, yeah. So, we're going to get into intimacy, partnership betrayals, addiction recovery.As well as all of the work she does here in Savannah, as well as across the globe through her podcasts, her books, and other courses. So, Ms. Andrea Epting, it's so great to have you here. Like I said, in person. I am humbled you invited me to your studio and, it's gonna be a great time. I'm grateful to be here and anytime, anytime, yeah, I appreciate it and happy to be on the show.Yeah. So are you Savannah born and raised? I am. I am third generation Savannian. Okay. Yeah. And we came over through Ellis Island, my people, and settled in the Brooklyn area and Savannah area about three generations ago. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Yeah. I might be the start of a new generation, but we'll see. I might stay here in Georgia. I love it. But yeah, so Georgia born and raised and let's get a little bit into your origin story, your backstory about what led you into the work you do. Yeah. So It's, it's a pretty boring story, honestly.Um, I think part of the origin story is me having dyscalculia and not liking to do math. And, um, I was starting in undergrad at University of Alabama in the interior design program and realized how much math was involved. Um, and then, you know, I just, I really. Listened to my peers telling me, like, we, we come to you for, you know, to get sort of an emotional needs.Right. And, um, I just, I had the ability to sit with them. and be with them in their pain. And I thought, well, you know, just see how the psychology thing goes. And so I wound up double majoring in psychology and religious studies and going on to a PsyD program which is a doctoral program where I quickly realized I do not like Testing and assessing people.I want to treat people. Okay. And so, um, I transitioned out of that program and wound up with my master's in psychology with a specialty in professional counseling. And that was about 20 plus 25 years ago. And I have loved every moment of it. I. I started in addictions in a practicum internship program and, um, I started to develop a reputation for doing good work with behavioral addictions, specifically disordered eating and sexual compulsivity.Right. And so I followed that path. And I have absolutely loved it. If you had asked me if this was a population I wanted to work with when I was in school, I would have said absolutely not. Right, right. Um, but we don't know what we're gifted in if we don't try a ton of different things. Areas and options and, and thank God I did, it has served me well, personally and professionally.Mm-hmm . Alright. Right, so you had that personality where you were what they call the mom of the friend group. Everyone came to you with their problems. Whether you wanted them to or not. You know, you're already trying to study math and the numbers are jumping at you.Now you've got all your friends, boyfriends and girlfriend drama. My butt. I love that you mentioned eating disorders. That's something we've addressed before on the show because it plays a huge role into relationships. It can be the end of a relationship, uh, it, and with social media, we talk about how eating disorders have drastically grown.They've always been there, but social media has definitely propelled them even further forward. So, do you work specifically with couples where one of them has an eating disorder and kind of how They can communicate and understand or do you work one on one? Where do eating disorders play a role into what you do now?Yeah right now because I specialize in Betrayal trauma and sexual compulsivity and the recovery of that also comorbid with any kind of chemical dependency, but Yeah. Recently I had a beautiful couple come in and their hardship was really trying to figure out how to navigate an active eating disorder in their relationship.So I do that work, um, I will say it also shows up, um, in the work that I do in sexual compulsivity, um, or any type of behavioral addiction. You're going to see it show up because you see a lot of this. Um, black and white, all or nothing behavior, and what I call the pendulum swinging from over, um, like overeating to anorexia, and there's just no gray, there's no just like healthy balance, if you will, or integration, um, where people can stay long term in that recovery until they get into therapy and do that work.They can find it. It's just hard. So you mentioned betrayal, which I want to clarify for all of us, because that can mean a lot of things. Do you focus specifically on cheating only, or is this any kind of betrayal, whether that was some kind of lie about an addiction, about financial stuff, or is this specifically for cheating and, you know, those faults of loyalty?All of the above, and they go hand in hand. Like, you're rarely going to unpack betrayal and not find childhood wounds. Um, you're rarely going to unpack betrayal and not find sexual, financial, um, emotional, and all types of betrayal. You know, that come to the surface, uh, so I would say all of the above. We oftentimes, because we specialize in sexual compulsivity, we work in intimacy betrayal, but I also, um, specialize in body betrayal.And so those often go hand in hand because you can't have intimacy betrayal and not also have sexual abuse on board. Because if you're intimately betrayed, you're sexually abused in that betrayal. And so it's similar with, um, your body being. body starts to kind of like go through a lot of different things where it starts to break down if you will.Especially when you're a state of hyper arousal for a prolonged period of time, your adrenal glands are depleted. You get all types of, um, disorders that come on board in addition to, and so I do work a lot with body betrayal as well. Yeah, I actually am tracking everything you're saying because, A couple months ago now, we had an episode of Destruction of Sexual Intimacy.And we talked about, if you look at least an example, if you're a man and you're going to be intimate with a woman, it's like you're going into her home and what are you bringing and what are you leaving? And when you're bringing betrayal, you know, pent up emotions from previous relationships, from trauma, you know, it's like, do you go in a woman's house and you throw flowers around or do you throw trash around?Because when you're physically releasing or emotionally releasing, And so I get what you're saying, where if you've been intimately betrayed, then sexually as well, I mean, you're sleeping with someone who betrayed you, there's going to be all those unresolved feelings, and even if you know something is kind of off, and I've seen, I've heard about studies, I'm not sure how scientifically back they are, but where women in abusive relationships started putting on weight to try and, like, unattract their partner, which, which, right, subconsciously, which is also just amazing that the body has those, defensive instincts to do that, like to protect yourself.Just like, almost a form of PTSD and fight and flight. And it's like, human emotion and the way it affects the body. It's fascinating, isn't it? It is, it is. Yeah, it's definitely something to be respected, for sure. And so, do people come to you saying, Hey, I think my partner cheated on me. How do I find out? I feel betrayed. What do I do? Or do people come to you after the confession? I assume both. Hmm.Most, most of the time people come, Post discovery. So they have discovered what they already knew in their body to be true. But they've been looking and searching and seeking and trying to, you know, piece information together to prove what their body is already telling them, that there is an addiction on board, or there's addiction in my home.You don't have to know what type of addiction, but oftentimes people want to know exactly what's going on in their home. So people come in post discovery and they're like, we need help. I need help. Most of the time it is going to be the active addict that comes in and says I've got a problem and I've just, I'm going to blow up my relationship.Most of the time they're not interpersonally motivated yet, but they're about to lose an important relationship and that has motivated them to come in. And then it gives us an opportunity to help them understand that this addiction has been living in this home for a long while. And if both parties don't really.Okay. I think we need to address this and to heal. There's just no hope for the future when it comes to that relationship. For sure. And when we say addiction, I know we mentioned in the beginning, pornography addiction, that especially plays a role into sexual intimacy. Yeah. Expectations that are false that are not met.You know, emotional cheating, cheating in other ways. But. Do some of your clients also, you know, it's how alcohol is going to ruin their relationship or how it's ruined their intimacy or drugs or, you know, whatever their addiction may be? Yeah, well, that's also being disloyal. If it's chemical addiction, it's still disloyalty to your partner because, and cheating if you will, because the addiction gets all of the attention.Because you love the person, you know, you love booze more than you love your partner and your nervous system most certainly does love it and appreciate it a heck of a lot more than its partner. Okay, because it's what happens over time. And so, yeah, it could be pornography. It can be, um, overspending. It can be debt.It can be all kinds of different things that show up. Um, most of the time they show up together, but not always it can be chemicals or behaviors. So yeah, um, all the time. Yeah, I get that. Choosing, you know, a substance that makes you feel better than your partner and then you can't enjoy that intimacy with them because you're like, I'd rather be drinking right now or I'm only going to sleep with you if we're both drinking or I'm drinking and it creates this, when you put requirements on intimacy like that, definitely.Uh, as, as you said on your podcast, you're not seeing that person and you don't want that person seeing you because you have the addiction in the way and you're trying to hide it. So an addiction is the opposite of connection, right? It's literally the opposite. And anytime you are looking towards fulfilling that behavior or seeking out that behavior to alter your mood or to regulate your nervous system, you are moving further and further away from intimacy.Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we've seen a lot of relationships destroyed by addiction, even I've got a friend right now. Her marriage is struggling because of gambling addiction and hiding that and you know, same, same kind of deal. So what I want to ask about, and this is kind of your personal opinion, uh, you know, outside of your work outside of this, and then you can kind of talk about what you've seen as a collective group with people you work with.We talk about betrayal, uh, and I'm focusing specifically right now, I want to focus on you've cheated, you've had a mistress, or, you know, someone else you've been seeing, whether it's once, multiple times, is there a place for forgiveness, or is it, you know, cut that off, or you kind of advise, you know, the people we work with, this is going to be your choice, here are the facts scientifically, here are the facts emotionally, and it's, you know, it's going to be your choice.You do you advise one way or another or is what they want is what they want and they want something different every week I want to forgive him. I hate him. I want to slash his tires. Yeah And rightfully so I mean like it is emotions are complex Emotions are complex and it's quite the roller coaster ride in early recovery and when you talk about early recovery, we're really looking at the first 30 days to 90 days You And we are talking about abstinence.So first and foremost, what we talk about is, yes, of course, there's an opportunity for healing for both parties at the end of that, then we can see, you know, once they have access to their frontal lobe and access to their emotions and they're off the rollercoaster ride, we can see if there's any type of compatibility.That can be built upon. Um, but that really takes some time and it takes recovery on the part of both parties, not just one. Um, so the success that we see is when both partners are engaged and involved in their own recovery. And then when both therapists come together and both parties come together through It's kind of an extensive process, then they can start to work on what we call reconciliation.Right. You are building a foundation of trust from the bottom up for the first time. You're getting to know this person truly for the first time because they're getting to know themselves for the first time. Yeah. So there should be no expectations placed on the relationship at all. The relationship isn't the issue, the addiction is the issue.So that's what we focus on, and oftentimes you do need 30 days of some type of abstinence based program. And so some people can do a therapeutic separation in the home together. Um, sometimes people do need to distance themselves even further. It really depends on the dynamics of the relationship and kids and all of that.But that would be the starting point. So their nervous systems can get out of that state of, um, codependency. And so it, it, it's a process. Um, but I see relationships move into reconciliation all the time. And I see the most beautiful marriages and relationships bloom from the recovery process. And I see a lot of them.Come to a place where they can part ways in a very healthy, wise minded, centered, and grounded way that says we were never compatible. The addiction was always on board and now that I know you, we're just not very compatible. Right. Well, and you know, it's so tragic because a lot of people don't know they have an addiction waiting in them.Uh, I always reference back to my episode with Gina Economopoulos, who I actually met in person. We didn't record in person, but She gave me a book signing for Christmas, but she said that she was an alcoholic before she ever had alcohol. And she talked about how she had all the factors set up. Uh, you know, for some people, it's nurturing the home.Some people, it's traumatic experiences. Some people, it's their occupation. I know my father's alcoholism. He's been drinking since he was like 11 years old, so that doesn't help. But Uh, his job, rotating shift work as a police officer, that led to drinking to sleep. And then you become co dependent on that to sleep, and then it branches out into everything else.Uh, that's just one example, you know, and, and addictions And you become very physically dependent on these things. But when, by the time you're physically dependent on something, again, there is no room for a partner. Right. Your alcohol is your partner. Your alcohol is meeting your needs. Oh, I don't. My dad has said I love vodka more than you, son.So, And it's not, it's not to insult me. It's just to express the level. Yeah, it's true. Yeah, and I, and it's, it's sad. It's really sad to see that because there's nothing greater than human connection. So, what I wanted to get into because we were talking about forgiveness and we've seen relationships move forward and I was just thinking about Former friend, I don't talk to him anymore, but he had cheated on his wife and um, I was in the back of the car and him and his wife were arguing, one of those awkward situations where it's like, I don't want to give input either or especially I'm staying at his place, but he was telling her that, you know, if she forgave, she needs to forget because she was bringing it back up or not trusting him still.And he's like, you need to trust me forever. Never bring it up again. And it's like, Hmm. Yeah, so it's like we said, it gets complicated and, uh, you know, one of the things I want to talk about, which I hate to use this word, but some men who have debated with me about cheating, you know, that there's emotional cheating and physical cheating.I even had a guy say that men only cheat physically to quote. Cum dump and women only cheat emotionally now I disagree because I think any person is capable of either or but I also think I don't get the whole idea of quote cum dumping because what that comes down to in my mind is you're not satisfied with your partner physically and There's some kind of communication barrier going on you know or it's because like we mentioned earlier You're watching pornography and getting these expectations that aren't being met because they're unrealistic so if you just want to talk about that the quote hate to say it cum dumping versus Emotional cheating and just some input on that.Yeah Again, like I have a lot of empathy and my heart goes out to someone who? rationalizes their behavior by You know, minimizing the hurt involved and come dumping anywhere for any reason. So, um, again, that's, that's, you know, that's hard, but I think that's exactly what happens in a pre contemplative stage of addiction, which is where there's a lot of denial, a lot of minimization, a lot of rationalization, a lot of blame shifting that says, if you did this for me, then I wouldn't have to hurt you.I mean, we hear the insanity of that. Yeah. If you would give me what I want, then I wouldn't have to exploit you and hurt you and abuse you. Right. So, yeah. and then sometimes they're not even expressing what they want. It's like you're supposed to be a mind reader. Mm-hmm . And, and we see a lot of blaming and I think in a lot of cases of sexual intimacy and issues with that.We see narcissism, we see gaslighting, we see control, we see all, all of that. Unfortunately, we do. And, and. Um, I would dare say 90 plus percent, um, of these individuals do not have narcissistic personality. Um, they are an active addiction and when someone is an active addiction, they're going to check all of those boxes because they do all of those behaviors to protect not just their ego, but to protect their disease.So of course it looks the same, right? They're putting the same type of energy into protecting their addiction. Not just ego. Sometimes it winds up being both, but, but yeah, so we're going to see this type of narcissistic abuse as a result of addiction, not just a personality disorder. But I talk about, you know, the pre contemplative stage of change.And when you see that type of like minimization and denial and rationalization and all that, you know that somebody is not ready to look at their disease as problematic because it's just meeting all their needs. Yeah. And it really sometimes takes negative consequences where their partner getting healthy for them to be like, Oh, this is a problem.And they start to move into content, contemplation, and then they start to move into preparation and then they move into action where they're really going to prioritize their recovery. So we've talked a lot about some of the behavior, some of the issues going into it, but now I kind of want to help. You know, make a plan to recover, so to speak, like how can we move forward?And what resources do you provide to help people move forward? Whether that's reconciling a relationship where there was betrayal, whether that's, you know, there's been a confession of addiction, whether it's addiction recovery or just communication, what kind of, do you provide to help people? Yeah. So.What we provided, my private practice in Savannah, Georgia, it's called Resolve Strategies, Inc. We provide a few different options, and we provide individual therapy for both betrayed partners and for recovering addicts. We provide task groups, which is covering 24 basic tasks of the recovery process for both betrayed partners and recovering addicts.We also, once they've completed task group, we have process groups that follow, um, their cohort follows. So they have their 24 tasks and they go into process group, which meets biweekly. Um, and then we have a program for recommitting couples and we also have a formal disclosure process. Which is extremely intense, but it includes individual therapy, some couple sessions, and a two full days of formal disclosure process that walks through a lot of different tasks.But it allows people to really build a firm basis for a future. No matter what that looks like, it's being able to build. For a future that they both deserve based on who they are and, um, and to at least have a path forward where they're not dysregulated and angry and, you know, addicted and their nervous systems playing off each other in this dysfunctional way, like they've had a process.And they can be mindful about their future. Right. So, I, I love the formal disclosure process or package that we offer. Um, and yeah, I think that's the biggest thing. I've, um, written a journal, um, that I like for people to use because I think it's really important for people to have daily practices where they can start to build some type of trust with themselves.So, Um, the biggest issue kind of off, you know, in the beginning is the recovering addict makes it all about their partner and the betrayed, you know, partner makes it all about the recovering addict and it's like, no, no, no. We're going to come into ourselves. We're going to focus on, you know, regulating our nervous systems and healing and understanding past trauma so that it's not that that continues to play out.And you really can build from the ground up and see if you want to move into a reconciliation process. Yeah. So you're talking about the future and moving forward. And so I got to ask, I'm curious. Did you yourself go through some kind of betrayal or some kind, one of these issues and actually went down that same path yourself?No. Not with intimacy betrayal, but with body betrayal. Okay. And what does that entail? So, it's very similar when you look at a recovery process, because you really do have to go through certain phases and stages of your own recovery from that trauma, and part of it is honoring the trauma you have experienced, and grieving the loss, and going through all of that.Um, so for me, for my body betrayal, it was, I went into a hospital expecting, um, a very Simple procedure. Yeah. And I didn't leave the hospital for a month later and was in bed for a following year or two with about ten subsequent surgeries. I almost died three times. Wow. Um, I couldn't take care of myself.I couldn't, um, pee on my own. I mean, I had catheters and I had nephrostomy tubes and everything. And so it's that process of your life blowing up. Right. That is what it feels like in discovery from intimacy betrayal or body betrayal. It is living one way and something happening to you or discovering something and your whole life implodes and you have to put the pieces back together because you don't know.You don't know yourself or you don't know what's real and your trust is rocked to the core. Right. Yeah. In my case, I was putting my trust into doctors. Right. Yeah. Yeah. We've had episodes and then, and as a result, almost died. Um, and so you have to really go through it. Um, we can't just be like, oh, well that sucked and move on with life.Otherwise, you know, cool. We're gonna walk around with these symptoms of trauma and it's gonna really impact us in a negative way Yeah, yeah, I um That's the worst nightmare. I know my neighbor one time He's about to turn 80 in a couple days and he was like you're dropping me off at the hospital. You'll pick me up tomorrow Maybe I'll be there for the whole weekend.You pick me up in three days He was there for like you said a month later. I still haven't picked him up, you know, so it's um, yeah Now just talking still about recovery in the future in the path forward I loved when I was listening to your podcast this morning. You said you should be terrified to date again, and I understood that as If you're not scared, that means you don't acknowledge that you, well, it also means you haven't acknowledged that you were hurt from your past.Because if you came out of a relationship, even if it was a peaceful. Resolve which is plenty of relationships that end mutually, right? You're not compatible. Maybe it's finances, politics, just career, lifestyle. You can still do it peacefully. It doesn't mean it doesn't hurt, right? If you, if you love someone and especially if you were intimate with them, which as a whole layer, right?It's gonna hurt. Yeah. But so if, if you're not scared of getting hurt again, I think, like you said, you're not ready because that means you have unresolved feelings, you know? You've, you've, you've repressed some of the hurt and the wounds, and you're extremely likely to find a very similar personality, um, in your next relationship.Yeah, well, I mean, it's, and it's our wiring, it's the trauma, it's the nervous system, it's all of those things, and if you've not done the work, um, yeah, I mean, you're always going to be high risk to be in relationships with addicts because that feels familiar. Yeah, yeah, for sure. We've had a couple episodes on also parenting and what you observe as normal intimacy, normal emotional response, normal argument resolution, and how people get into relationships with, you know, their mom or their dad, um, in terms of personality, of course, just because that's what they think is normal, is comfortable to them.Um, Whether you want to call that a generational curse, whether you want to call that just, you know, programming, yeah, uh, nature versus nurture. And that's one of the things we said, you know, we want to say it's, it's in our nature. Uh, if addiction runs in the family, it's like, is it in our nature from genetics or is it?We saw that we were exposed to that and that's. What we were, we saw as was normal for drinking is three things. Yeah. It's so many compound and oftentimes it's all three, but I've definitely seen it and it really looks different in, in people. It looks different in their nervous system. It looks different when it's just genetic.It looks different when it's genetic and environmental and it looks different when it's environmental only. And it looks different when it is somebody just using or misusing a behavior or a chemical to the point of dependency. But there are those people like that woman you mentioned who was like, Oh, I was, I was an alcoholic before I had a drop of alcohol.And that is more of that genetic and probably environmental as well. And then there are traumatic events. So there's another element there where it's like when you when trauma is on board. Yeah, your brain chemistry shifts and you are now Predisposed for addiction. Does it mean you will become an addict?No Does it mean being genetically predisposed guarantees you're going to become an addict? No. You're just wired for it. And that's why I'm a big believer in psychoeducation and understanding your genetics and your background and your environment so you know what to avoid. Right, right. You're prepared.What is the risk factor here for me versus maybe somebody else? Yeah. I know. I used to have this really terrible fear that I'm gonna end up just like my dad. It's inevitable. And I had one of the, uh, the petty officers in the Navy that I was working with, he goes, Mr. Whiskey, the fact that you're already aware of it and trying to avoid it means you're doing something different, right?Because you're already aware of it. So I agree that it's really important to notice, and that's why I love that the youth, there's, they have so much access to terrible stuff, but they have a lot of access to a lot of self interest. discovery improvement, you know, like our podcast books and resources. And what I love about your book, the journal is because by kind of forcing, so to speak, to hold yourself accountable, to unpack that stuff every day, there's not a chance for you to bury it.Right. I mean, you're still right. I mean, everyone. Handles their emotions in a certain way. Everyone suppresses their emotion in a certain way, but when you're writing about it Which means you have to think about it every day for that set period of time You can process through a lot more of it rather than you're gonna put it all away and then three relationships down the road Out of nowhere, you know because it happens.I mean I've talked to Vietnam veterans with PTSD and just Unresolved emotions not PTSD related to what happened in Vietnam and these are guys who didn't have feelings about it till 40 years later they they said decades later suddenly they said they put in a cement box through in the ocean and guess what it eroded over time and then boom now years later they're thinking about all this stuff that they saw whether that was people they lost or the way they were treated when they came home all those emotions that definitely overlapped with trauma from emotional and verbal abuse.And that is the way our brain works. And we can't, we have to give ourselves a lot of grace for being human and having human brains. It's the way our brain works. It is going to lock it away so that we can continue to function. We can wake up, we can eat, we can go to work. The reality is, when that happens, we don't have access to.The information that we need to heal and recover because it's locked right and so part of the process of recovery And therapy and all of that is in a very careful manner to be able to unpack that And that is also the use of a journaling practice is to shine a light on it In a safe environment. Allow things to come forth, reintegrate and place it where it needs to go, have access to emotions.Without access to emotions, we don't have access to data and we can't make good decisions. Right. So if we want to make wise decisions in this life, we really need to look at what has happened to us, heal, and really pay attention to those emotions because that's your good information right there. Yeah.Yeah. I totally agree. I know there's a lot of people out there who want healing. They want resolution. But they're in a situation, especially financially, where they feel like I could never afford a therapist or a counselor or, you know, some kind of official help. But luckily, I know you're one of those people out there fighting to help others by creating You know, ways to reach those people who just aren't high income, who can't afford it, or maybe they're in a financial situation.Especially if they're in an abusive relationship where there's financial bondage and controlling. Right. So I'd love for you to tell us a little bit about how you are trying to help give back to those people who need help but can't afford it. Yeah, thank you for asking. So the way I decided to combat that and also it came and I'll just little back story that it came on the heels of my hospitalization.It came on the heels of my body betrayal and I had a deep need to create even though my ability to have kids was taken from me. And I said, you know what? Well, this is what I know. This is what I do. This is what I love. It's important that it's available to any motivated person. Who wants to dedicate themselves to the process?We, most people, they can afford a session maybe, but they can't afford the process. And the process is quite extensive. You know, the average length of stay is two years. Right. Well, I'm sorry, weekly or even bi weekly therapy at 150, 250, like who can afford that? Right. So, I started a non profit organization called Heads Up Guidance Services.We lovingly refer to it as HUGS. In Savannah, Georgia. Right. We provide services, um, by utilizing volunteer professionals, um, to provide services for 25. So people can better invest in a long term program of healing. Um, and that's what we do. And the only way we can do it is through volunteer professionals who want to give back to their community.Right. Um, a community in need of health and healing. And so we want to invest in other people instead of, you know, our pockets, you know, like it's just, you know, I had, I could talk for three days about the, Um, I won't talk about that because that soapbox is dangerous for me to get on, but I will say that that was my solution to a bigger problem.Yeah, no, I agree with you on that because in my episode, uh, with rich vision about, uh, conscious and impact rap and the mental health industry, we talked about, you know, the great side of the rap industry, focusing on, on mental health and emotions and politics. And we talked about the side that promotes and weaponizes mental health.We've seen it where, you know, rappers are promoting, uh, medicine for these ailments that they're faking. And, you know, we've seen it like that. I've seen it in the military be weaponized to get out of the military. We've talked about how mental health is so integrity based, how, you know, it's not like.There are some physical manifestations of depression, of suicidal ideation, right, but at the end of the day, there's no yes or no test, you know, as far as physically. So we talked about the integrity of it, and unfortunately, we do see people, you know, weaponize it, and it's a shame. Why, as in my youth, I really, like, did not like therapists.Like, I was like, You know, you're charging to help people, but I, I, I understand it's uncomfortable to charge to help people in a healthy field. It's uncomfortable. Yeah, right. And I, I've had that conversation before where people are like, Mr. Whiskey, you don't sell a course or a program or you don't charge as a life coach.Like, So you just help people for free and I said, yes, like why would, and they're like, well, you only don't charge because you don't have something valuable. I was like, okay, now, whoa, now those are fighting words. I said, it's not that it's not valuable. I said, I want to help people. Um, I do need to make a living too, but if I can do that in a separate way from helping people, then that's great.But I love that you mentioned the word integrity, right? Because that's you being in your integrity. Me starting a nonprofit was me being in my integrity. Right. I have a private practice too. Yeah. I gotta put bread on the table. Right? Yeah. I'm the breadwinner of the home and I needed to be in my integrity.Right. And so I think it is important that that is what we operate from. It's not that we don't have things of value to offer, but it's how we feel when we offer it. . Exactly. . And there are plenty of people who are scammers who are manipulators. Mm-hmm . And um, I'm sure unfortunately there are people out there who, um.falsely diagnosed or um Just keep you sick. So you had to keep coming back. Well, the insurance companies require that actually. Um, we had an episode on that. So that's also why my private practice does not work with third party payers or insurance companies, because that's not, that's not the way, um, we do things.The client must be in control, right? Well, when, when Dr. Fred Moss, he undoctor now came on my show. He talked about as a psychiatrist, he was not allowed to have the patient leave without diagnosing them. That's true. And sometimes he said the diagnosis was just, Mr. Whiskey, your diagnosis is you're Mr.Whiskey. There's nothing wrong with you. That's just your behavior. It's not toxic. It's not bad. It, you know, if it's trending on social media, that doesn't mean you have to do that. And that was a, that was such an eyeopening episode to say, you are not allowed to have your patients leave without diagnosing them.And he and I talked about. Different topic, but people purposely collecting ailments and diagnoses to be trending online or to get attention and going from one Therapist to the next until one of them gets a diagnosis or one psychiatrist in next. Oh, you said there's nothing wrong with me All right. I'm gonna go to another one and another one and like you said Pharmaceutical companies.We've talked about symptom treatment versus root cause treatment. That's a whole conversation on its own for sure It is and I just want to add one super quick thing and then we'll get off of it But yeah, I had a client come in just last week and they were very upset. Um, You know, right visually like right you could see they were upset and And because they were going through a divorce, they were required to do a psychological evaluation and they wound up with a disorder called Adjustment Disorder.And I had to help them understand that there was no way you were going to leave with nothing. They will not get paid if that is the course. And, and Adjustment Disorder is what people will give you when there's nothing wrong with you. Right. And she was like, oh, so you mean there's nothing wrong? And this is a disorder, I'm like.You just got to understand the system in which they're operating in. There is nothing wrong with you. And that was how they were trying to convey it. Right. No, I get that because it's like. You're going through a divorce. Of course you're not happy. You know, of course you have some stuff going on. So, so I get that.And as far as your non profit, I mean, it's the big dream to see it. I know it's in Savannah, Georgia right now. It's a big dream to see it in other cities and locations. Everybody needs a hugs. Every town, every city needs a hugs, a heads up guidance services. Because, again, Anyone who is high functioning and motivated and ready to invest in the healing process should be able to do that without breaking the bank period.And the other part of our mission is to make sure that we're developing quality professionals to go out and serve the community. So like, we're like a teaching hospital. We are investing in young professionals, you know, interns, post grads, associate level licensure. All the way through supervisors. We're training them.Yeah, and so it's a twofold. And yes, the bigger vision is for that to be Everywhere, it's needed As of now, we're in Savannah, Georgia doing great work seeing about a hundred people a week Wow Wow, that's that's beautiful. So that's a hundred lives, you know being changed right there that maybe normally wouldn't have been able to access that Yeah, maybe Could have gone down dark paths in their life.So that's, that's beautiful work that you do. Thank you. And I know your nonprofit, we're going to have your website in the description below. It's the best way for people to reach out and find more information about your nonprofit as well as your podcast. If you want to plug the name of that and a little bit about who should listen to that as well.Yeah. And so I feel like. Again, just human beings, um, like, you know, we all go through this thing called life. And if you are human and have any desire to better yourself, I think you could benefit from the podcast and it is called the direct impact podcast with Andrea Epting. So anywhere you listen to your podcast, but in direct impact and, um, hopefully that will pop up.Um. And for the non profit, HUGS, Heads Up Guidance Services, it's, um, headsupsavannah. org. And, um, you can pretty much find everything there. Um, they have a jot form you can complete if you're interested in coming in for a free consultation. They're free of charge, and if it's not a good fit here, we're going to get you where you need to go with a free recommendation.So, it's a good place to get started. Yeah, and the last thing I want to touch upon because I saw it all over your website when I came into the office I saw it lightning in a bottle Can you tell us a little bit about that and why we need that? So lightning in a bottle is the home of the direct impact podcast and the plan to recover mini journal.And so this is a 90 day process for identifying and automating healthy habits in your life. And so that's what lightning in a bottle is. It's the podcast. It's free resources. It's the journal and some of our courses that we offer on body betrayal, intimacy, betrayal, recovery, all kinds of, um, You know, information.So if you want to just check us out, um, if you, I would start with the podcast, it's free content, and if you hear something in one of those seasons, you want to do a deeper dive, go to the lightninginabottle. biz website and see if one of those courses speaks to you. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Well, before we close off, I'd love for you to just leave us with one main message or piece of advice for everyone listening.A kind of. encompasses everything we've talked about today, what would be the biggest takeaway? That you're worth it. That you're worth it. And I hope that everyone will turn towards themselves instead of away from themselves, because that's what happens in addiction. Like, you are You are worth it. You are worthwhile and you deserve every ounce of what you could be pouring into yourself.Um, so I mean, I, I think that's the takeaway because addiction really, it, that's, that's what you lose. You lose access to your authentic self. Right. You lose access to self care and self compassion and connection with others and intimacy. So yeah, parting message is you are worth it. And, um, If you have a lot of resistance around these things, it's probably a deeper problem than you're able to look at.Um, yeah. So pay attention to that resistance. For sure. And I, I think, you know, you talked about you're worth it and the addiction part. And for, if you are the partner or loved one or family member of someone who is dealing with an addiction, whether that's obvious or not, know that you're very valuable and worth it too.You know, and that addiction is going to block off. You know, that person's ability to express that to you, to reassure that to you, uh, and you need to know, you know, it, it took me a while, you know, how can my dad love vodka more than me, more than his wife, more than his kids, um, and, and I don't take it as my dad doesn't love me, I take it as, you know, the addictions between us and, you know, whatever addiction that is, whether it's, like I said, my, my, my friend, her husband has a gambling problem and it's like, He loves her and the kids.He doesn't want to throw that away, but you know, the addiction is in the way and it could be pornography, it could be drugs, whatever it is, you know, you have to understand that that's blocking that. It doesn't mean that value doesn't exist on the other side. So I think it's important to both ends, the addicted end and the loved ones of the addicted person to know that you're very valuable.And that there's a lot of things blocking it, but it's not irrecoverable. You know, there is a plan to recover. Oh, thank you. Absolutely. And the disease of addiction doesn't just want the active addict. It wants to take down the whole family. And that is the path. That is the dis ease that leads to the disease.And the path of a disease is death. So, take that seriously, please. It is. Well, Ms. Andrea Epting, it's been a great time. Also in a recording person, like I said, a very rare scenario. And, um, it's just been a great time. I really appreciate what you do as someone who's trying to put value out there and help people to have you making it more accessible to everyone on a professional level.That's just great to know. And so I just want to thank you for coming on the show and sharing that so that Whoever hears this, whether it's themselves or someone they know who needs to hear this, can hear that and then discover resources, both free and paid, to improve their lives, as well as pass it on to the people in their lives and the lives around.Just as addiction spreads out and takes everything through the addicted person, when we provide resources like this in our services, that knowledge can then spread out. to so many people and it keeps spreading. So I appreciate you being one of those people helping make that happen. Thank you. And I appreciate you too and what you offer your community.Thank you.
