jen quammen: [00:00:00] I think the out of the box thinking, like I want that more than almost anything else.
That's my sort of pitch for why I'm kind of doing some of this stuff with AVMA is like, how do I connect us to the greater profession? It's important for me to think about the people that aren't in the room as much as the people that are in the room.
megan sprinkle: Welcome to Vet Life Reimagined. I love finding fellow veterinary professionals who've created their own unique paths by weaving together different passions and interests. And that's exactly who we have with us today. Dr. Jennifer Quammen. Jen has such an interesting story. She started as a vet tech and then became a veterinarian.
And thanks to a simple nudge from a colleague, she found herself on a journey she never would have imagined. Currently, she's juggling life as a practicing veterinarian, while, also serving as chief veterinary officer at Otto, which helps clinics transform their workflows with digital solutions. On top of that, she's just wrapped up her role as vice president of AVMA, where she was an advocate for veterinary students and faculty. During our chat today, Jennifer [00:01:00] opens up about her AVMA experience, why having different voices at the table matters and how to build a network of support we all need. We also dig into the changing landscape of our profession, Her passion for making our profession better is contagious, which is why I'm excited that she's running for AVMA president elect this year in 2025.
So let's get to the conversation with Dr. Jennifer Quammen.
When did you know you were interested in working with animals?
jen quammen: Oh, gosh, uh, this is the way we always think about this. Like, how did we get here? Right? , I think I'm 1 of those, uh, sort of classic individuals who was always very drawn to animals. you know, the, the positive side of that. It's like, oh, yeah, animals are so fun. And there's so many cool things. And like, they have this unconditional love that they offer.
there is always that sort of, uh, yin and the yang to that of like. There's some pathology in life that sort of pushes you towards relationships that are not as, um, potentially toxic, like a human to human relationship can have some bad things. [00:02:00] Um, and that human to animal relationship rarely has that, at least in my experience.
And so those, from a personal standpoint, were 1 of those things that really not only attracted me, but probably kept me connected to that over the years. And so I love being able to be the voice for voiceless, you know, as many of us do
megan sprinkle: Yeah, and if I'm correct, your journey into veterinary medicine was through being a veterinary technician. So how did you discover that, veterinary technician was a career path and start getting into that?
jen quammen: Yeah, I thank you for the opportunity to talk a bit about that. And so for me, I think I thought from a young age that I might become a veterinarian and just the way the cards deal in life. That just didn't become an immediate opportunity for me. And so this path towards becoming a technician, suited my life better at that point, much more attainable.
and it was something that I really enjoyed, and I still, I still tease now, like, I was a really good technician. I think I'm an okay doctor. I mean, it's good. [00:03:00] Maybe a little better than okay. Um, but there are some parts of that job that I still, miss, right? Like, there it's a different side of your brain and your body that you're using.
but I, I do think it was kind of my, sort of initial foray into really getting more formally involved in the profession. You know, I can probably, like, many remember the 1st veterinary practice that I visited that really made an impact on me. as a kid, I had a very close relationship with someone who.
Owned a practice and, um, I got to visit his practice, see the house cats that live there, right? And sort of have that relationship to that place that I thought, well, this would be a really cool setting to work in. Um, and so then you fast forward, you know, a decade or 2 or so, and you wind up in that. A scenario of actually working with those animals.
And it's very different, obviously, to having a pet than working on them. but that was probably my initial, like, if I look back now, like, oh, yeah, I can remember those little flashes in life of when you sort of connected with animals, but with animals in that more medical setting as
megan sprinkle: [00:04:00] And I think that as a vet tech, you worked in like specialty and ER settings as well, which also gives you a unique perspective of veterinary medicine. So what did you find that you were liking in those settings?
jen quammen: Yeah, so as a veterinary technician, , you get to do a lot of obviously the hands on technical things. And so I worked in a mixed practice. I worked for a surgeon and I worked ER. Um, and I think the ER and surgery side were the pieces that I enjoyed the most as a technician, because you got to do the most advanced, and more challenging procedures.
Now, the challenge of that is those patients don't always have the, Greatest outcomes, right? You're dealing with really stressed out animals and really stressed out people in some of those settings, but it got to really push your skill set to a different level. And so I think, for me, those are pieces that I, I did enjoy is kind of pushing myself a little bit to, like, not to say there's not value in communicating day to day with a pet owner about wellness and vaccinations and all those things that [00:05:00] we do on the day to day.
But for me, I enjoy surgery. I enjoyed seeing that probably, I guess you could think of it as like the immediate gratification of like problem solution. Right? Uh, and so there's that that issue of like, okay, here's the thing in front of us. We've diagnosed it. We've done the thing. We've made it better.
And now we can sort of move on. So I did enjoy that different than some folks that really love that development of a relationship in that long term, seeing that patient through its whole life. I love that as well. But if I had to pick and choose, I like those little snippets, maybe a little bit more, if that makes sense.
megan sprinkle: I hear that from surgeons a lot is the very quick solution to the problem is enjoyable and the reason why I wanted to emphasize that to you is I think that says a lot on what you decide to do as a veterinarian as well. But so, you know, I know your bachelor's degree you're interested in.
You did math and biology. So kind of true to this. profession, but when did [00:06:00] you decide to, okay, I actually want to try to apply for vet school?
jen quammen: Yeah, I think, um, so when I finally went back and kind of finished up my bachelor's, so I had, you know, been a technician, been working and I went back and initially was like, I'm going to go whole hog on this math degree. And I really did enjoy it. And I added on biology a little bit. It's like, I don't want to say a side note, but it was kind of like, maybe not the first, it was kind of the second entry point.
and so. Throughout my undergrad, I had a really great opportunity to do a lot of research. Um, and so I did research from the mathematical side, working, as a student statistical consultant, and then on the biology side, I did some field work. And so I worked on, um, amphibians and as a numbers nerd.
The good news about amphibians is they have giant clutches of eggs. Right? And so, if you want to talk about numbers and getting stats, like frogs are great in that regard. And so I initially, when I left undergrad, initially, actually, went into a PhD program and that was where [00:07:00] my brain was headed. It was into this organismal biology.
And I. I was in a great lab. We were working on temperature dependent sex determination in turtles. Some people are probably familiar that like the temperature they incubate at sort of reveals what that animal is going to become. And the lab was great. And I just still had this yearning of there's something about vet med that was just sort of calling me back.
And so I wound up applying, while I was actually in my PhD program, got in and ended up leaving a PhD program to go to veterinary school, um, which, uh, You know, it's maybe not the story that most people would have, but it's, it's how I sort of got there and I'm glad I did it. but it's probably not the journey that most folks had.
megan sprinkle: well, I mean like I often say as soon as you you know, where the path really needs to be Don't wait to get on it, You've made that discovery. So, you know choose the best next step for your future. And I think you got into the Ohio state is where you chose to go. and if for [00:08:00] some people who maybe not know for Kentucky, there's not a vet school, at least yet, is the Ohio state have seats for Kentucky residents?
jen quammen: so I actually wasn't well, a long sidebar, but I wasn't living in Kentucky at
that point. But, you know, this is, this is the way the world works. , there was a time when Kentucky actually did have seats at Ohio state. Most Kentucky students that are considering veterinary school. We have seats for in state students at Auburn and Tuskegee, both each class.
And so that is where a grand majority of Kentucky based students go to school. My path to Ohio state, like most of my things in life was a little bit circuitous. but that's where I wound up. and, uh, yeah, I had a really great time, Interesting program. I mean, I, I am not the person to be fair.
And this sounds terrible. If some of you are veterinary students or contemplating veterinary school and thinking about this, I was not the person that was like, veterinary school was like, the most life altering experience of my life. I'm not that person. I have friends that are like, That is where I develop my most intense [00:09:00] relationships.
And yes, I have a handful of folks there. It just for whatever reason was not that for me. Maybe it was that I was a little bit older student at that point, whatever the case might be. I don't think that's any knock on the program. It's just for me as an individual. I have a cohort of people that yeah, I'm connected to, but I don't think like, oh, that was the life altering, uh, relationships of my, time.
I don't know what your experience was like
megan sprinkle: Similar, actually.
jen quammen: some folks, it was like, I love it. I love it. I love it. I'm so engaged. And I was like, okay, I like it. All right. You know, so I don't know if that's a bad thing to say, but that's kind of where my brain
megan sprinkle: no, I think. Um, so let's keep going there. I think as long as you have some type of support system, right? And some type of network, that's great. I know my experience was similar to you. I honestly, vet school was the hardest 4 years of my life. I did. That was not the best 4 years. And no, I didn't, maybe I should have, but I did not build strong [00:10:00] connections.
I had a great. I had a great vet school class. we worked well together. There was not a huge competitive feeling. Like, I feel very fortunate to have that class, but I don't have, like, best friends in that class. If that makes sense. Yep. No, I totally understand. So, I mean, and I know you also did a,
I think a masters of public health. At the same time. So, I mean, you've, and I think you're working at the same time. I'm not sure you're very talented. but like, who were your mentors at that time? Like, who did you kind of go to for maybe guidance questions? Just, you know, general life support.
jen quammen: Yeah, I think the general life support certainly came from friends and family and for me, and I, I think that is true when I was a veterinary student. I think that's true as a veterinarian that like my cohort of friends and family, or this sounds so terrible, but they're not just folks in the veterinary space.
And what I mean by that is like, you know, how it is, you go to a party and someone introduces you sit on a [00:11:00] plane and someone's like, what do you do? And I'm like, how do I answer this? and so then it's like immediately, like you get. You're you're working right and so for me, I had a lot of relationships outside of just the profession and I think this profession touches everyone in some way.
but I think my siblings certainly were a big cohort for me. I think the folks that I had done my undergrad research with, like, my primary faculty member for my undergraduate institution he and I still connect. Our families see each other at holidays and, you know, this is 20 something years later.
And, you know, it's really cool that, like, we got to go on these experiences and there were other students in my lab as well. And, You know, we traveled within the country. We also went and did some international travel. And so I got to present undergraduate research with next right next to masters and PhD students outside of this country.
And so, like, this is the kind of thing that, like, I got to do as an undergrad. And so I think those were folks that I really connected with. Had I not had that, [00:12:00] maybe that would have been my vet school classmates that had become that. And again, I mean, no. Disrespect, but I was also to your point. I was working.
I was doing other stuff. And so I did not dive in on a bunch of different groups, and clubs in vet school. I think it belonged to 2 clubs and most schools have 30, 40 clubs now. Right? But I had this big network outside of that, , that I still lean on today.
megan sprinkle: Yeah. And actually, as I was saying before we hit record and I was listening to some other podcasts you've been on, , one of the, Frequent ones you talked about with your husband, and this is, we'll get there, but the coaching side of things you talked about, you're the most, like, the 5 people you spend the most time with and, and having
different categories of people that are your people, and there's, you know, there's, Colleagues and then there's family and there's, you know, significant others and I think that is important to have a well rounded network of support because then they get all sides of you [00:13:00] and it's not, one, which makes us unbalanced,
jen quammen: hmm. Yeah, and none of us are just 1
thing, right?
Like, we are all an amalgamation of all the things that life has brought to us. And so, yeah, my relationship with Ryan is different than my relationship to other people. And, I think he brings out a different, conversation in me than others do and challenges me in some ways to have to think about it.
Like, don't talk to me like you're talking to another vet. I need you to talk to me like a different perspective and I'm like, okay, great. And that's good skillset because I think that helps me, continue to hone that school and not to say that Ryan is like my average client, but that helps me to continue when I'm talking to clients.
Like, yes, I could talk in doctor medical language all day long. That's not the thing that's going to connect a client to me and to get that patient the care that it ultimately needs. Those kind of things matter to me of connecting with people. And I think that is much more valuable to me.
Really thinking about my network of folks than it is to just say, oh, well, you know, I went here for vet school and I did this and [00:14:00] that it's like, you know, those are things that happened to me, but they don't make me who I
megan sprinkle: am.
Yeah. Well, and I think back to what we were talking about with you starting as a technician, getting that unique perspective of, multiple, all I can think of is "perspective"... Points of view,
jen quammen: Yeah.
megan sprinkle: you know, that kind of complete the, the picture. That's so important. And you also, after vet school, I think you went back to one of the practices you had been a vet tech at. So what was that experience going from vet tech? Disappearing for vet school, well, you worked a little bit,
But then coming back, Yeah.
but, you know, now coming back doctor, what was your experience like?
jen quammen: Yeah, it that practice, is wonderful and, like, still exists to this day. You know, it's obviously changed a little bit, but there is an opportunity and actually thought about this. Um, I was just giving a, uh, like, an introduction of myself to someone a couple of weeks ago. And I said, you know, it's really an interesting situation to go into a practice as a new veterinarian of a place that already knows you, and they knew me as "technician Jen". [00:15:00] The values of this practice were such that, you know, we had about, I think, around at that time, maybe 7 full time, equivalent doctors, two locations, mixed animal practice had been around since the early 60s. So, this place had 50, almost 50 years of history when I walked in the door.
And I think I was maybe, you know, 1 or 2 of the women who had been hired there to do mixed animal work at that point. So there's already some things you're kind of coming up against, but the values of this practice. And again, this is not a place. That's going to wave a flag and tell you this. No one says you have to call me "doctor so and so". It doesn't matter where the idea, or the response, or the thought of, like, how do we approach this patient came from? It could come from the custodial staff, and that would have been totally fine. And so I feel like there was a very level playing field of a conversation I could have with folks.
Now, did I put the pressure on myself that I need to think about things differently? And I can't just fall back into being technician Jen and placing the catheter. Yes. And so [00:16:00] I, and I still do it to this day, I will say, Hey, here are the things I need to have done with this patient.
And then I need to walk away. Because I think I can make people a little anxious, right? Like I'm ready to go. And I don't think I'm doing that in any way that's charging people like we got to do this now. I just think there is a little added pressure to you being in the room.
And so I will just take myself out of the room. I'm not driving away. Just going to the other room, come find me if you need me. And so that allows people to allows me to walk away and not be fidgety, and not have to, like, sit on my hands. Like, come on. you could have gotten that already. Right? Like, you can, we can all do that.
We can micromanage it that way. And it gives me the physical space to, Take the breath, think about it, let this person learn. We all need to struggle and learn and fail. Like that's what we're all doing in life. And so that I think is a skill I learned by jumping into that practice then. And it's something I still use now.
And so I, I'm going to take this on a slight sidebar if that's okay for a
second. [00:17:00] When I was, getting ready to graduate veterinary school, we had, an opportunity. Each university at that point had an opportunity to send students to the veterinary leadership experience, the
VLE, which people are probably familiar with.
And so every school chooses how those students go differently. And at Ohio State, we had to write an essay, and say where we wanted to go. Now, traditionally, It's 2nd year summer students or 3rd year summer students that go. I went during my clinical year. And so I actually ended up having to leave VLE early to go to commencement.
so I went literally right before I graduated and I have looked back at that letter that I wrote and part of that letter. I wrote and I said, look, I'm going into the same practice where I have worked for a number of years and they know me as this and I want to show up like this. And how do I help myself?
Learn those techniques and so I really do think and I'm paraphrasing a little bit, right? Like, I didn't say anything quite that eloquent, but my being chosen to go to VLE and not only the experience of the process of that, [00:18:00] but the relationships I made there really opened my eyes to what this could be. There are folks that I've met there that I literally still talk to every single week and I've gone back to VLE and to VLI as a facilitator, I think 9 times.
So I tease that. I'm sort of like remedial. Like, it's a little bit of a joke. Right? Um, but I have a strong. Just a really strong passion for what that that process can look like for you if you're open to that learning. And so, for those that aren't familiar, this is all about learning about yourself, how you show up in the world, how you interact with others.
And so I can now zoom in and zoom out and say, if I look at the letter, I wrote as a student to say, this is why I want to go to this thing. And however, the stars aligned that I got chosen and I went and the people ended up meeting there and the skills that that taught me to then be able to go into that practice and into future practices and into the boardrooms that I walk into now.
Those are skills that I can't be thankful enough to have have [00:19:00] gained at just the right time for me.
megan sprinkle: Well, I mean, just listening to that it, to me, it sounds not only is it a very mature way of looking at it, but you were very clear on your goals for this event, and I think that's helpful for someone who wants to encourage that is already knowing how you're going to apply these things is you have a very clear situation. I want to be prepared going in.
And I know that this experience will help me do that. And so you're going into the experience with your goals in mind, and it's just so wonderful that I've heard nothing but good things about
the veterinary leadership experience. And so I'm glad that that did set you up very quickly, because it does when you were describing that moment of being in the clinic, you sounded
very self aware, right? And it'll be helpful to you as you go through assessing all the different things that you're doing in your career. It's helpful to know who you are and what you value. So you can make those decisions and quickly. Just like you went [00:20:00] from Ph. D. program to vet school. So, on that note, I mean, you do sound like a person that likes to do lots of different things. And so,
was, was so what was the moment where you're like, okay, I may not want to do 100 percent clinical practice.
I'm ready to explore.
jen quammen: Yeah, I don't know that well, I mean, maybe there was a moment, right? So I, I graduated veterinary school in 2011 and I think I mentioned I wasn't super involved in clubs and things as a student. The practice I went into really valued, organized medicine. And so I got encouraged to go to one of our local VMA meetings and, Ended up within a few months of graduation, actually having a seat on our state on the Kentucky board, uh, the veterinary medical association board. And I was serving as, like, the constituent representation to the state board. And so 4 or 5 times a year, you would go and meet with all these folks from all across the state and, like, just learn about different things.
And I really [00:21:00] didn't know what the heck I was doing there. but I was learning right and learning on the fly a little bit and. And one of the things that came out of that were opportunities to learn about other, volunteer things that were out there. And so Kentucky and every state has these delegates to the AVMA.
And so our delegate presented, um, some volunteer opportunities that were available through the A VMA. And I looked, I heard one of them and I was like, Hmm, this sounds kind of interesting to me. How do I learn more about this? And so I went to our delegate and said, Hey, can you tell me more about this? And he said, I've not ever served on that c ouncil, but let me connect you with someone. I know who's on there now. And so it was just through that conversation that I learned about that. And then I was like, okay, I'm going to put my hat in the ring and run for this thing. And I got it. And so the reason I bring that is because it was literally on a trip.
So I served on this council for 6 years, and there were at that time, 2 meetings a year. So you'd go up to Schaumburg just outside of Chicago to the AVMA, um, I call it the mothership. Um, right? I think it's this big AVMA [00:22:00] headquarter building and we typically, I would typically drive that. It's like, a little over a 5 hour drive for me.
I don't mind some windshield time. It's not a big deal. And so Ryan and I were actually on the drive back from one of those meetings. And it was a conversation of, well. I think I want to think about a different side of practice. I was getting involved in doing some more advanced surgeries and I was thinking about kind of sports medicine or an Eastern Western crossover of practice.
Ryan was coming out of a physical injury. He's trained on the human side as an endurance coach. And so we were looking at things that we could each kind of do to kind of broaden our perspectives within our profession. And it was those back of the napkin conversation, if that makes sense, that was like, hey.
I want to help people in this profession. You want to help people and the skills that you have from coaching and executive coaching. Why don't we apply those to, you know, what we're doing in veterinary medicine? And so it was truly that conversation that then became the seed [00:23:00] that grew into this business that we now have.
And so do I think I like made the decision that like, oh, I'm leaving full time practice 18 months after graduation? Uh, no. but did I have that conversation and just lean in enough? And we started speaking and we started building out and fleshing out this business and got a few clients. And I thought, okay, this is really cool.
And so then I had to go to my owners and say, hey, I'm, I'm working at this practice. We take our own call. I love it, but I need a little bit less time on the floor. And I don't care where that is. You can put it at 2 in the afternoon for me. I'll come in early. Take an extended lunch and work the night shift.
Like, I don't care what that looks like. I just needed a few more hours in my week to dedicate to this thing. And that ultimately was how it continued to grow. And I, I don't know that I ever did. I make the rational, intentional decision for that. I'm not sure, but it's clearly been a good choice for me. I don't think I set out to do that, but it is just those confluence of events of like, [00:24:00] I wound up in this meeting in the Kentucky VMA, heard about this thing with the AVMA, got onto this thing with the AVMA, and then just on a random car ride had this conversation about what would become our business, veterinarian coaching. And now we help literally hundreds of folks every year with different individual processes and things that they're going through, but it's been so cool to impact the profession in a really different way.
megan sprinkle: those little did you know moments are, are kind of fun.
jen quammen: yeah,
megan sprinkle: Well, and then I'm curious, maybe we should get Ryan on sometime, but what
was his impression going from, endurance athletes and, CEOs and stuff like that. How, how did he transition from that into, you know, veterinary medicine?
jen quammen: it's so interesting because he, um, you know, he can bucket us all in 1, 1, big pile, right? Like, you veterinarians, you're all the same. And by that, he means technicians and PMs and [00:25:00] everything as well. we're not clearly. It's a little bit of a joke, but he was accustomed to working with folks that are like C suite executive.
So you have someone that's already working a 40, 50, maybe plus hour a week job. And on top of that, they want to run a triathlon or they want to do an ultra marathon. Like, these were the folks that he mostly worked with. And so he is really skilled at saying, okay. In your holistic look at your schedule, how do we get the training you need without overtraining or under training?
And how do we get you to the target of where you need to go? And so I think that is the way he really works with veterinary professionals. And the other piece to that I'll say is that he's really adept at thinking about, and we think about veterinarians as mental athletes. We may not be pushing the physical limitations of things that we're doing with our physical training.
But if you think about us holistically, if you are so stressed out and so overwhelmed by your day to day life that you can't be [00:26:00] present with the patient in front of you, it's dangerous for the patient. It's dangerous for you. It's dangerous for the people around you. We do an inherently dangerous job and you're not able to remember, take a breath, Think about what you're doing before you go into that CPR.
So when that thing comes, you can't access those places on your faculties because your prefrontal cortex is like offline. And so he's really adept at helping folks think about, let's back up and look at the human animal, if you will, because we're great at looking at the non human animals as veterinary professionals.
And so, uh, yeah, so we really see veterinary professionals is like these mental and sometimes physical athletes. Uh, and so taking those principles from executive coaching and just putting those onto a different group of individuals with a slightly different framework.
megan sprinkle: I just feel extra special all of a sudden because now I feel like an athlete.
jen quammen: You are. Yes. Yes. I mean, think about it. Like when the stressful thing is happening, it's like, do I remember the drugs? Do I remember the thing? It's like, [00:27:00] you know, you either get that moment, you know, we all have it where everything just slows down for a second and you're like, the thing you train for on the day to day is what you're going to fall back to when the world is falling apart, your body goes to those things.
And so that's where the coaching and training really, um, really is where we've, we've figured out a niche for what we
megan sprinkle: Yeah, well, and even having that, the very mental athlete aspect of things, but pairing that with the physical athlete, and I'm not saying everybody has to go run, tri marathons,
but just being able to take yourself out of that and focus on like being present in your body, doing something active, I'm sure it's probably a unique thing too that he can also highlight and show the benefits of
jen quammen: Yeah. A thousand percent. And not that this is a promo for the coaching business, but like we look at these different aspects and, and, you know, there are these different factors of wellbeing. If you look at, um, the way social scientists sort of talk about it, but it's like your physical wellbeing, your [00:28:00] mental wellbeing, your social situation, what sort of support network do you have?
And so for us, we talk to people about stress management and sleep hygiene. Like if you're not sleeping well. I mean, you, you have a, you have a young baby at home. I don't know how your sleep is right
megan sprinkle: not great.
jen quammen: Um, yes, exactly. But so those are the kind of things that, like, what do you do when, you know, that time is coming where you're not going to get as much sleep.
How do I then kind of push on other things to help maximize so that I'm not being so overwhelmed or what can I get rid of off of my plate in the short term? So that I can still keep producing.
megan sprinkle: Well, and, and all of this time, I'll probably very, sloppily ask this part of the question to you, but I know for a long time, you were also trying to understand telehealth too, and supporting
companies that were trying to figure that out as well. How did that fit in to all of this?
jen quammen: yeah, I am, I am the Jill of all trades and master of none. I think officially, uh, I think I [00:29:00] think that's probably, uh, the nice way to say that as I tell people that I have a portfolio career, um, which doesn't mean that I can't sit still long enough. It just means I like, I'm like a serial dabbler.
I like a little of this. And a little of that, and I've kind of cobbled together what works for me. I do work with a group. we've changed a little bit over the years. I could tell you our very 1st concept going back to, like, 2000, uh, maybe 14, um, was quite different than what we're doing now.
but we originally came out as a very much like telemedicine platform. And so talking to folks about how can, and I'll, Back up and say, our clientele is veterinary practices. So we were not doing like direct to pet owner. Like that's not our, our model. Our model is like, how do I facilitate a veterinary practice to do this should they choose?
, and so how do you help someone to charge for a virtual appointment? Right? Like we think about that now in 2025, it's like, well, yeah, everybody does that. Eight or 10 years ago, that was not quite the case. And so so I got involved. With this group, and at [00:30:00] that point, they were called TeleVet. We've now rebranded as Otto.
OTTO and we did again telemedicine for veterinary practices. How can I help you to do rechecks or to do derm appointments? Or maybe some of those behavior rechecks, or what does it look like for your practice to consider using some of this tool? And. We were plugging along and doing okay, and then, pandemic hit and in the background, we were sort of working on something else on the back end that became what it is today, which is a more complete suite of communication tools.
And so Otto can enable you to share as much or as little with your clientele outside of your clinic walls is how I like to think about it without it being you on call all the time. Right? So we have a lot of, like, automations, right? Hence the kind of cheekiness of the name. So you think about going and getting your haircut.
I get an appointment reminder that I'm due for my haircut at whatever time. Same kind of concept here. You can do that with [00:31:00] appointments. You can do that with, hey, I want you to fill out a survey and tell me what your experience was like. Hey, don't forget that you are on this prescription medication. The doctor sent home four weeks and it's now at week three.
And I want to nudge that client to say, are you ready to order some more? Those are the kinds of things that we can help to enable veterinary practices to keep focusing on what matters to them. Do the medicine. Do the human animal relationship. That's what makes sense for us without us having to do as much of that administrative burden.
and so I don't think it's ever going to be like, you know, there's always this like, are you going to replace all of our staff? No, definitely not. but I hope I'm enabling your staff to actually sit and talk to that client so that they're not having to, like, try to talk to somebody at the front desk while the phone is ringing and while the text is going off and while there's dog barking and, you know, all those things.
So, yeah, so I think, you know, We're continuing to grow and develop, and this year we're doing some, I don't know, some AI things, and the artificial intelligence, not the [00:32:00] theriogenology AI. I always have to be conscientious about this in our space. Um, but yeah, like, I've been talking about AI for, like, 2 and a half years, which.
It's fascinating. Like, there's people that are like, Oh, I'm just learning about this. I'm like, let me help you. Let me help you make your practice life easier. And so those are the things that we, get to do. And it's really cool to be in those conversations. Um, initially it was in a very informal way.
And then as the team grew, they were like, we really need someone. And so I serve as the chief veterinary officer. So I get to be the. The veterinarian voice for a whole bunch of software engineers, for lack of a better description. We have a ton of folks that come from the veterinary space, but it's really interesting because they can make things really complicated.
I'm like, no, no, no, I need you to make this like, as simple as it can be. I need it to be that. I could hand it to the kitten and the kitten could basically do it. Right? So we don't, we don't love tech changes a lot in vet med. I don't know if you've noticed or not.
megan sprinkle: Yes, and you beat me to it. I was going to say the buzzword all right now is AI. So
[00:33:00] what are you?
jen quammen: It's
megan sprinkle: Yeah, well, and, you know, I can't help but just thinking about all the things that you're doing. And then I'll try not to put you on the spot to politically, but, you know, it's all these things are. We're big points of discussion on an AVMA level.
And so,
so it's
interesting that you have such a diverse background in all of these areas to bring these unique perspectives, everything from telehealth way back from, you know, 2014. That's when I graduated vet school. so there's so much that changes, but it sounds like you're you've been right on it.
This company's still been there, um, and serving the same audience. And I know some of the pushback with AI and technology is there's so many players coming into the space that don't know veterinary medicine. Right?
And so it is. nice to one, have a company that's been in vet med for a while, but two, know the value of [00:34:00] having veterinarians or veterinary professionals as part of the team. And this is why it's so fun to see such diverse career paths, because we need representation on all of these aspects. I believe to make vet med all that it can be.
Yes.
jen quammen: for me, you know, they talk about like, what's your super superpower? What's your thing? And I think for me, my skill that I'm really good at is connecting folks. And so through, um, through all these different intricate relationships I have, you have met so many people and had such cool opportunities to get to know folks.
And I think again about. Those simple skills of like, when I meet someone, I literally probably don't know where they went to veterinary school. And I don't care to be frank, like what bonds me to someone is finding something out about their family or the sport that they love or the food that they'll eat.
What's your favorite flavor of ice cream? Right? Like those kinds of things connect me to people. And so then you can [00:35:00] have a genuine conversation. And what that means for me is you learn more about that person. And then when 6 months or 6 years down the road, someone says, hey. There's this thing and I'm like, oh, I am not the right person for this, but I know someone you should talk to.
And so that, for me, is the place where I see myself right now is in this ability to know enough to connect the right people, but also yet still be learning, like, constantly learning. And I am still struggling with. How do we get more diverse perspectives into the room? , how do we get more diverse representation?
I think that is a challenge we're up against right now. You know, I'm on my own journey of learning more about the space and I've taken some of my own trainings and I helped facilitate the AVMA board of directors for the 2 years. I was on there and we did, the journey for teams activity. If you're not familiar with that, please find it out.
It's open and available to all team members. And it is [00:36:00] not behind the AVMA wall. That is open access to everyone, whether you're a member or not. but I would love for you to be a member if you're a veterinarian. Um, side note, and I think that helps me to understand how can I perspective build? Because if that person is not in the room, I have a seat or I had a seat for two years on that board table where I was representing over 20, 000 veterinary students.
Now that is not a monolith. You know, people will turn and say, well, what are the students think Jen? And I'm like, well, it's hard for me to encapsulate 20000 opinions into 1. but here's what I see on the whole. And so that to me is that like, environmental surveying of what's happening. And so I hope that I can continue and I'm.
I'm sure I will need to continue learning, but I hope I can continue to perspective-take and bring that in. And one of my personal missions when I'm sitting in 1 of those boardrooms and I do this with Otto and things as well as I want to bring in the minority opinion. Maybe not because it's my opinion, but because I think we need to [00:37:00] discuss it because I think if you're in a room where everybody is just yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
All the way around. We're not making any progress like we're just here in an echo chamber and that doesn't mean that I want people battling But I'm completely okay to agree to disagree and I think about when I was on the Council on Vet Services that that group I told you that I applied for in the very beginning and There was someone that was on the same exact six years that I was and he and I differed STRONGLY on our opinions on so many things in that room, but at the end of the day, when the meeting was over, we could go and sit and have a chat, have a coffee, have a beer, whatever, and have a really good relationship.
And we've both changed over the years, and there are still a lot of things we disagree on. But I value the perspective he brings and I think he values the perspective I bring and I hope that I can continue to do that for others. And so that's my, that's my sort of pitch for why I'm kind of doing some of this stuff with AVMA is like, how do I connect us to the [00:38:00] greater profession?
, it's not an easy task. , but I think it's at least what I'm driving towards right now. Sorry. I got a little bit like, impassioned about that, but like, it's important for me to think about the people that aren't in the room as much as the people that are in the room.
megan sprinkle: Amen. Completely agree. And that's one of my passion areas to it's my platform is a podcast, but, you
know, we need people, especially, I think, in places where decisions are being made and sometimes it feels slow, but in government, which is also another thing that I think the more that we can learn. About all of these different things, like the government. We understand why things take a long time or
things are the way they are. It doesn't mean that they're not going to change, but it helps us understand. And I think when you understand that different perspective, you problem solve better because you have more information.
You have this new perspective. And so even if you are two colleagues that are disagreeing, like you said, as long as you [00:39:00] keep bringing that perspective and you're both open to hearing it
and considering it. I think that's again, how we're going to bring the best solutions to these challenges that our profession faces.
jen quammen: Yeah, I totally agree. I think the out of the box thinking, like I want that more than almost anything else. Like I want someone to come to me and say, well, have you considered this? I'm like, oh no, but like I love this. How, help me understand how we, how we get there. Does that mean it'll happen today?
No. You know, when I think about my life of living the organized medicine path with AVMA and living my life with a tech startup, boy, those are the yin and the yang of like, we can spend on a dime and spend a whole bunch of money and go off in a direction with a small ish company, and maybe be going the very wrong direction.
AVMA, representing 108, 000 members, having a staff of, you know, triple digits. We're not going to spin on a dime, right? But there's going to be a lot of thought. And when those decisions are made, it's rare for AVMA to make a total miss in terms of a decision because there is a lot of thought behind it. [00:40:00] Is it perfect?
No, neither situation is. But that appeals to me as an individual that like, I can feed one side of my energy from this and another side of my energy from that. So it's pretty cool
megan sprinkle: Yeah, definitely. so being vice president of AVMA, your
big responsibility is around understanding students and bringing that back. So I also feel like the past two years that you were vice president. That is, that was a big year for education because we have a lot of
conversations about starting new veterinary schools and thoughts around that.
And are we in a potential shortage or are we not? Are we overcompensating? Like all of those questions have really been active over the past couple of years. And so when you go and hear the students and the academics, I'm assuming you're also talking to academics while you're at these universities to, I
mean, what, what were you seeing and hearing over those past two years?
what's the sentiment where are you kind [00:41:00] of hearing them?
jen quammen: Yeah, it's an excellent question. And I think, having the privilege, so as Vice president, you oversee the SAVMA schools, so A VMA accredits all the schools in the US and then other schools as well. And so that is a slightly different pocket than what the VP represents. So the VP represents the SAVMA schools.
There's 40 of those right now. 33 in the US, 3 in the Caribbean, 3 in the UK and 1 in Canada. And so those are the schools that are represented in the SAVMA or the student house of delegates and you can oversee the national board, right? Like, you help to like, oversee AVMA national SAVMA leadership.
So their president, president elect, and they have their own sort of governance body. AVMA has something like that as well. They're slightly different in how they're run and that's okay. And so, in addition to visiting schools and interacting with, like, doing lunch and learns and things with students and or with faculty. Faculty was probably the big group for me to really learn a lot from.
I went to some of the AAVMC meetings. And so [00:42:00] the, AAVMC. For those who aren't aware is the alphabet soup that represents the administration and the deans of most of the veterinary schools, right? It's probably the best way to that's the best way. I think I can encapsulate it. And so you're in those conversations I don't think I went to any veterinary school, even 2 years ago.
I don't think I went to a single school where someone said, I have more faculty than I know what to do with right now. Everyone needs faculty period. Everyone needs faculty and staff. Specialists, I think are really a unique scenario and not every school having a teaching hospital. It's a slightly different mix of how many specialists they might have on staff, because if they're not at a tertiary teaching facility, that might look different. If they're teaching in a more distributive or hybrid model, but students still need to have access to that. And there's still research they need to have access to.
And so I think faculty, faculty, faculty are what I'm hearing period. I think the post COVID, do students come to class to students not come to class? Like, that is definitely a conversation that people have [00:43:00] strong opinions about. And there's I can be in the middle on this, right? Like, if you're just lecturing off of PowerPoint slides, I totally understand the perspective of a student who wants to, like, sit on their couch with their dog and watch it at 2 X, rather than sit there in class and watch it at 1 X.
So, I can see both sides of that, but I do think our students are having great conversations about what does this look like? And where do I see myself in the future? So, in terms of big themes, I think workforce, in the academic institutions in particular, I think, even 2 years ago, we had the U.
S. schools alone being about 500 faculty short of what they need to be fully staffed. And we have, depending on the numbers, somewhere between a dozen and fifteen additional veterinary schools coming online in the next few years. And so the volume of faculty is certainly a bit of a concern. that's something to be said for. Students are interested.
Students are engaged. They're high energy. They're, they're doing [00:44:00] all kinds of cool things. I think I never cease to be amazed, by the creativity and the professionalism of someone. I'm like, at your age. I could barely tie my shoes is what I feel like. Right. You know, . So to see them represent, but also it's a different life that they're bringing, right?
Like they, they wanna do things differently. And the student, you know, the students have a, their own conference every year, the SAVMA symposium, and it's so cool to go and see the CE that they want to see and the wet labs that they want to do. And so I would just encourage folks to think about. What does it look like to bring again those perspectives?
And that's that was my job as the VP was try to bring that voice of the faculty and the students to that table. Um, and I don't do it alone, but that is, uh, it's a weighty job for sure. So great. Great folks for
megan sprinkle: Yeah. Well, what are you most excited for, for your personal future right now?
jen quammen: Oh, gosh, boy, so many things. I mean, life is in a life is in a reasonably good place right now. as per [00:45:00] usual, I have a few spinning plates, my current spinning plates. So I finished my term as vice president in June of 2024. I also announced my run for AVMA president elect. And so I'm currently a candidate and so people all the time are like, what are you doing on the board?
I'm like, I'm not on the board right now. I am currently an average AVMA member just like you. and so I, I pay my dues the same as everyone else. AVMA staff members that are vets also pay their dues. By the way. Uh, I don't know if people think about that, but like, all those staff members, they also pay their AVMA dues each year.
and so the challenges right now are. Thinking about what's happening with Otto and I have a great opportunity with the team there that I, I can work remote with them. Right? Like, that's that's the way I've been able to do that from the jump. I'm still doing clinical practice and currently I've been able to do a little bit more than I was during my 2 years as VP, and as I make this run for president elect, and for those that don't know, AVMA elects a new [00:46:00] president elect every convention in the summer. And every other year we elect a new vice president. So, this past summer, we elected a vice president. And since it's a 2 year term. We won't do that this year, but we will elect in July of 2025, AVMA's next president elect.
I really hope that is me. and the things that I'm thinking about through this time are who do I interact with? And how do I get my voice out there? And so I have been doing a lot of blogging, which I never thought I would do. I'm not great at sitting down and writing. I tend to be a little bit more active that way.
If you hadn't figured that out. And so part of the reason I'm doing that is to share some of this journey, because I want to make this an opportunity for me to look back on this year and say, look what I did and look what I was able to share. And I want to be the sort of what I've called the softer side of AVMA if that makes sense, like, I think AVMA can be seen as this very formal, very stiff group.
And I think there are pockets that way, but I think on the whole, it's not really that way. And if you just like, peek behind the curtain a little bit, you might know that. [00:47:00] And so I want to be the ability for people to just open the aperture just a little bit and look in at what AVMA is doing because I hear all the time.
I wish AVMA did X, or I wish they had this resource. And I'm like, by the way, they already have that. You just didn't know where to find it right or help me. We didn't advertise it well enough, whatever that might be. And so my mission throughout this year has been to share the things that matter to me, in terms of going in as potentially president elect, but also to share a lot of the values that are out there that AVMA already puts out to just share those with a broader audience. you know, the job of the president elect is to be, in my opinion, the chief communicator for the profession. You are speaking at different state organizations. You are speaking on an international level, you're traveling on an international level, and you are representing the veterinary medicine of mostly of the US on a grand stage.
And so, to me. I think I'm pretty good at being able to, again, perspective take for others [00:48:00] to mostly stay on point. Don't give me a speech that's written word for word. Give me bullet points and I'm better that way. and I think that I can be an open fairly clear communicator. Maybe I'll listen to this podcast and think differently about that.
Um, but those are things that I, I see that I can bring a level of enthusiasm, a level of confidence. I think I represent a lot of what our organization looks like right now. And however, this works out for me, um, win or not win I'm going to have had fun. And I hope that someone else will look at this journey I'm on and say, that could be me.
that's the mission that I've taken with this. So that's where I'm at is, uh, working, working for Otto and, playing this wonderful game of, trying to get elected as president elect of the AVMA, which is a very interesting game.
megan sprinkle: I can only imagine. And I just want say that your ability to communicate and speak has been seen. It must be good because that is how we got connected was I [00:49:00] saw that Josh Vaisman was singing your praises at hearing you give a talk. So you seem to be on a good track, and I hold Josh's opinion very highly.
So he's
jen quammen: absolutely the same. Yes. And I remember, um, I remember the 1st time I met Josh and I think that was the conference that he mentioned. I was like, oh, my gosh, I didn't know. He knew
I was
So, I had a definitive fangirl moment there. So, if you've not gone out and, read his book, folks do it Lead to Thrive.
It's quite good.
megan sprinkle: And I always love to end, what is something that you are really grateful for right now?
jen quammen: Awesome. I, oh gosh, there's so many things. I am in the moment. Um, you know, life throws interesting challenges your ways, right? So I am currently super thankful that I have family that is close enough to be huggable right now. my younger sister and I are very, um, very connected and she is, uh, she's a vocalist in the Air Force band.
And so her job is to sing, [00:50:00] so she sings the national anthem as her job. Who knew that was a thing, and she has been stationed for the last 4 years in Japan, and she just moved back to the States in December. And so, um, she will be at my house. And I think about the next 30 minutes and so she's only a few hours away now.
And so, although we saw each other through the last 4 years, I'm just really grateful for proximity to family. I think is what I'm going to lean into with that right now.
megan sprinkle: I hope you enjoyed this fascinating veterinary story. We can make an impact in so many places. Check out the show notes for lots of resources. Please make sure you are subscribed on your podcast app, subscribe on the YouTube channel and follow me on LinkedIn, where I hang out the most. You can contact me on LinkedIn, on the website at vetlifereimagined.
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And I hope to see you next time on Vet Life Reimagined.
