Stacy Pursell: [00:00:00] My advice for people is this, this one thing. Always be open to opportunity.
Megan Sprinkle: Welcome to Vet Life Reimagined. What does it really take to build a successful, fulfilling career in veterinary medicine or to hire and retain the best talent in the field? Today's guest has the insider perspective. Stacy Pursell is the executive recruiter in the veterinarian animal health industry.
She basically started the veterinary and animal health niche in executive placement and recruiting. With more than 25 years of experience and an unmatched track record of placements, Stacy has helped shape the leadership of Fortune 500 companies and startup animal health businesses alike. She's also the only person in the US who holds both the Certified Employment Retention Specialist and certified personnel consultant credentials in our space. In this episode, Stacy shares key insights from the intersection of animal health, talent acquisition, and leadership. [00:01:00] Whether you're hiring, job seeking, or simply curious about how veterinary careers are evolving, this conversation is packed with wisdom you won't want to miss. So let's get to the conversation with Stacy Pursell.
Welcome, Stacy, to Vet Life Reimagined. I'm very excited to have you on the podcast and I wanna kind of echo maybe a little bit of what you do on your podcast, and that's to ask you a little bit about, growing up for you and do you have any memories or stories that may foreshadow what you end up doing in your career leader?
Stacy Pursell: Well, Megan, thank you so much for inviting me. I'm so happy to be here and, and yes, I do. So when I was a child growing up, we had pets. We had all kinds of pets. We had four cats, we had two rabbits, we had a bird, we had a mouse. And I would rescue all the pets. So I had Cats from just as early as I can remember. Always have loved cats. And I was at a high school football game and [00:02:00] these kids were hitting this gray cat did not have a collar on. They were hitting this cat with a bandana. And it was not my cat. I had never seen the cat before, but I walked over there and I.
Said that is my cat quit hitting it. And they seemed so embarrassed. They said, oh, we're so sorry. And I went and picked that cat up. And so I was, I had ridden to the game with a bus of other, kids and we were going, going back to a function after this game. And, I asked one of my friends, I said, can you drop this cat off at, at my parents' house and just tell my mom that I'll.
Find a home for this cat later. And, uh, so I had gone to this sleepover thing with a group of, people in my high school and I went home the next day and my mom said, okay, Susan said you're gonna find a home for this cat. And I said, I did. It's gonna be our cat. And we kept the cat. So, when I was in the, seventh or eighth grade, I was in junior high.
There was a kid that, had a mouse on the bus and he was doing something with it for a school [00:03:00] project. And I said, what are you gonna do with the mouse? He said, I'm gonna go home. I'm gonna hit it on the head with the hammer. And I said, you can't do that. I said, I'm gonna take that mouse home. And I did.
I took that mouse home and we adopted it, got a cage, and that's how I ended up with a pet mouse. Oh wow. What
Megan Sprinkle: vicious children know you've been a rescuer of animals for a long time. also I, I happen to know that, you know, once you got into college, you focused in journalism.
So did you do a lot of writing or any, anything like that when you were growing up too? What interests you in journalism?
Stacy Pursell: Well, I actually did. So I've always had a curiosity just about people, the world, business, how things work, history. I love history. but I actually, when I was growing up, in my parents' home, I created a newspaper for our family.
And I just on notebook paper, just school, college rule paper. You know, I would just write. Stories about things that were happening with our family, like with my [00:04:00] brother or parents or the neighborhood. And I would just give it to the family and say, you know, here's my newspaper. I, I write about all kinds of things.
So,
Megan Sprinkle: oh, I love that. And what, once you were in college and working on journalism, I know you end up doing some TV broadcasting, but what were you kind of discovering around this industry and, and what intrigued you and maybe kind of started getting you into the next step for you?
Stacy Pursell: so I decided to go to Oklahoma State and get a degree in journalism, and I did a couple things when I was there.
So one I wrote for this student newspaper, the Daily O'Colly, which was the daily newspaper for Oklahoma State. And then the second thing I did is I produced and anchored the student newscast for OSU. So with the paper, the editor of the paper said that Oklahoma State was getting a new president of the school and they had hired an executive search firm to find a president of the school.
So that was the first time I had heard of executive search, but I was [00:05:00] very intrigued about this whole process. I went to interview the dean of the search committee and found out all about how to conduct an executive search for a president of a school. and then, like I said, I anchored and produced, the daily newscast.
I also did some radio work. I was on the radio. I read the weather, read the news. I did, two internships. in addition to working at the student newscast, I worked at the CVS affiliate in Tulsa. The first summer I worked in the news department. we covered hostage situations, we covered murders, all kinds of things.
and then my, the second year I worked in the sports department and I worked for the sports reporters and the sports anchors. So we would go out and cover like the local, baseball team and, some other. Sporting events. So, that was a whole lot of fun. But, the work that I did in, in college really set the stage for my, career in this business.
Just, learning about the foundations of the executive search world.
Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. That's really interesting, the diverse kind of [00:06:00] landscape that you were able to explore too, because I think it's really valuable in life to have that background to see lots of different industries and how things are run. But yeah, that is really interesting that early on you were able to kind see how executive search worked and that being a journalist kind of got you some.
Access there to see how finding a dean worked, which is, which is really interesting. I would love to find that out. But one of the cool things that I also like as characteristics of journalists are this deep curiosity and often like really wanting to know the truth behind something as well. Does that resonate with you, the curiosity and, getting the true story behind some a situation?
Stacy Pursell: Well, it does, uh, my mother says that, uh, she says two things. Uh, when I was a kid, she said, I never learned how to walk. I learned how to run. And she said, from the moment I went from crawling to running. Never walked. 'cause she said you were always in a hurry to [00:07:00] do everything. in fact, there's a funny video of me, when I'm getting married instead of like walking slowly down the aisle and practically like running down the aisle 'cause I'm in the hurry to, hurry to get there.
but you know, the journalism background, I think having a degree in journalism, you have to take courses in everything. So you're not just taking, you know, all science courses or all English courses, you're taking all kinds of political science courses and history and science, and it's a very broad based, foundation.
the other thing my mother said, when I was a kid, she said, you just had this curiosity. She said you were one of those kids that just constantly ask questions. Like they were like, just stop asking questions. ' and I have a son like that. My oldest son was like that when he was two or three.
He would go into a business and just ask people tens of questions. So I kind of, kind of un understood a little bit of the frustration with that. But I've always had a, an intellectual curiosity just to know things about the world, people, business history, et cetera.
Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. Well, and [00:08:00] again, thinking about that deep curiosity of understanding people as well as business, I think also sets you up for what you do now too, because you have to understand both, you have to understand individuals, but you also have to understand a business aspect to marry the two appropriately.
So, as you were talking about, you said you, you were starting to understand this executive networking and what it takes to, Match in a, in a potential executive type of role with a business. so you join a type of recruitment, firm called the MRI network? I believe.
So how did you get there? And then I'm so curious because I read that you basically started the. The niche in veterinarian animal health. So how did all that happen?
Stacy Pursell: Yeah, I did. so after I left Oklahoma State, I worked in an advertising agency, uh, ad agency that I worked in. mostly worked in sports marketing, cause my boss.
, Had come from the football. He had been a quarterback, [00:09:00] actually played football at, at University of Oklahoma and had a lot of connections in the sports world. So we did a lot of sports marketing, and then I worked for a Fortune 500 company and their communications group. And then I worked for a, a business publication.
and I have a sales. Background as well. So that's what I did, uh, prior to getting an executive search. So my sister-in-law, uh, was an executive search, back in the nineties in the, before Y 2K. and she worked with a lot of technology and, and IT type of companies, and she had the same degree, that I have, journalism.
And so, just hearing about the work she was doing. My husband said, I think your background would be great for that. I saw an ad in the newspaper. People don't get jobs from the newspaper anymore, but I saw an ad. I remember typing my resume, taking it to Kinko's and faxing it. To the executive search firm, which was the MRI network, and so they called me in for an interview. I think I had three interviews. They said, if you're still interested, call us back. I went back in a [00:10:00] couple more times. I got hired. They hired me to place executives of Fortune 500 companies. Specifically in consumer packaged goods and even more specifically with human food and beverage companies.
So my clients were Fortune 500 companies, in the food and beverage space. So I worked with companies like Colgate and Kraft and Kellogg's and General Mills. And so one of my clients. Who had a very big human food company, had a pet food division, and they hire me to find a head of their pet food division.
So I found somebody, to run their pet food division. So in that search process, I was connecting with, pet food executives that were working for all kinds of different companies. And so one of my candidates was working for another pet food company. And, he connected me with some people there and they needed to hire a chief veterinary officer.
So I remember going back to my boss at the time and he joked, he said, if you can figure out how to [00:11:00] spell the word veterinarian, tell them that the search process is the same to find a veterinarian as it is to find a VP of sales or VP of marketing. So I filled that position and then that company asked me to fill other positions for veterinarians.
That, were working in the, the scientific services or the professional services type role. And then I got connected at the time, with the founders of, a couple of the very large corporations today. So one was the, , predecessor, to Banfield. So at the time it was, there was PetSmart Veterinary Services and then there was Vet Smart.
So it was. Two companies. One was serving the, , eastern part of the country and one was serving the West. So I was working with both of those organizations, which is today is Banfield. So I started helping them in the very early days. I actually built a team of recruiters and we filled over 300 positions for veterinarians for them at the beginning, and then I got connected with.
One of the animal health pharmaceutical [00:12:00] companies, Novartis Animal Health, and I was working with their head of professional services and I helped him build his entire team of professional services veterinarians, helped him build out the pharmacovigilance department, helped them find people in sales, R&D, regulatory, et cetera.
So then I got a call 'cause somebody noticed my work. I got a call from another. Animal health pharmaceutical company who had seen the work that I was doing, and they said, can you help us? We're doubling the size of our sales team and we're gonna need some veterinarians. And so I did that and then they asked me to help them find scientists and their r and d department.
So I ended up placing their head of genetics, their head of, several directors in their vaccine department. And then I started getting asked by other pet food and pharmaceutical companies. And then, started getting asked by other veterinary practices. So it's kind of like the, uh, industry found me and I found the industry and I just kept getting asked [00:13:00] by another person or another company to help them fill roles.
And so, you know, I'm still working in a large, international search firm and I was hired to play sales and marketing executives in consumer packaged goods. So one day, the company, brought in a regional trainer. Who came in to spend the day training our team, and she said, what are you doing?
why are you working in the, the vet space? You're supposed to be working with consumer packaged goods companies. And she said, I think you would be great to serve the cosmetic industry. She said, I, I just think that would be a great role for you. And I said, Why the cosmetic industry? She said, I just think that, that you look like you would fit into That industry. And I said, well, I have no interest in the cosmetic industry. I said, I'm really enjoying working with veterinarians and animal health professionals. And so my boss at the time, he pulled out this very thick book. I mean, this book was. Oh wow. Like that. And it had all the different specialties that recruiters could work in.
You know, accounting, legal, [00:14:00] construction, aviation, had all, all these sub niches. I mean, believe it or not, there's recruiters that work in the, the garbage industry and just, you know, Pick any industry. There's recruiters probably working in it. And he said, veterinarian and animal health is not in the book.
that's not a niche, that's not a niche that anybody's working. and there were several thousand recruiters in the firm that I worked in, and the o the particular office where I was, I think we had about 25 employees. Most of them were recruiters. So I worked in a pretty large office in that firm, and he said, there's nobody working in the animal health space. He said, look, veterinary medicine is not in here. I just don't think it's a niche. my boss and the regional trainer, they said, well, you have to understand that veterinary medicine is a lot of men that own their practices and their wive.
Is the practice manager and they're not gonna need to hire the services of a recruiter. but I didn't understand that because they were saying this, but at the same time, I had enough on my desk to keep me busy. and so I was there for seven [00:15:00] and a half years. I loved working there. I love my boss.
He taught me the business. just great person. And, I wanted to get out and go to trade shows. I wanted to get out and go to the NAVC, which is now, of course, the VMX. And I said, I, I need to get out in the field. I need to meet my clients. I wanna go call their offices. I wanna go see them in person.
I wanna meet my candidates. And he said, we don't do that. He said, we don't, we don't get out in the field and go, go spend money to go do that. And I said, well. Can I go if I spend my money to go do that? And he said, you know, sure, as long as you're not gone too long. So I went out, went to VMX, spent my own money to go out there for the week.
And, it was one of the best things I did. 'cause now I'm getting to meet my clients in person and I did convince him to let me go in person to see some client visits. But, you know, I remember going to see, You know, before it was named Banfield, going to see them in Portland, Oregon. you know, back in the nineties.
And, being able to sit there face-to-face, you know, [00:16:00] looking at my clients, seeing their operation, you know, being at their corporate office. It's a lot different than talking to somebody on the phone, you know, we didn't have Zoom, or teams back then. So you either talked on the phone or you went in person.
And it just made a world of difference to me to be able to meet my clients, uh, get a feel for their personality, meet the teams, get to know other people in the organization, and just see their culture and see how things operate. So that was a game changer for me. So they let me go as long as I, paid for those trips, which I did.
And so after seven and a half years, I approached my boss and said, I would love to have. You know, my own business. I know that this is not a niche that you all have been in before or seem like you really want to be in. So I ended up being able to buy out the business that I had built, uh, within his firm.
Uh, and that was over 20 years ago. So that's how I, started the vet recruiter. So when I started the vet recruiter, I was still working with the same clients, that I had been working in, with his firm. 'cause, you know, it was a franchise model. So he [00:17:00] owned a franchise of a larger organizations. he allowed me to buy that out.
So as far as the clients were concerned, there was really no, transition other than they just had to sign a new agreement That said, the vet recruiter and our oldest client, by the way, We've worked with for about 28 years, so I still work with some of the same client.
You know, of course there's been a lot of consolidation, mergers and acquisitions. but I've worked with some of the same clients for over 20 years.
Megan Sprinkle: Wow. So , reflecting back on something that your boss said when he said that veterinary medicine is just a bunch of men running clinical practices and their wives being their secretaries, was that just a lack of understanding of the industry or had the industry just changed that much around that period of time?
Stacy Pursell: I think it was both. I think it was a lack of understanding about the industry, and I think the industry was starting to, change a lot at that point in time because, you know, the industry did used to be more, male dominated.
Of course [00:18:00] today, it's more female dominated. We have. More females coming out of vet school than, than males. but at that time, there were a lot of, , men that owned practices and their wives were the practice manager. And it was also before all the corporate consolidation. So I, I was at the very beginning of all the corporate consolidation and I think, you know, especially people from outside the industry just weren't really aware of all of that.
Gotcha.
Megan Sprinkle: Now also, you've been doing this a little while. I'm curious, a couple of things. One, what do you think that were the most important things that you did and maybe that your personal characteristics that allowed you to be so successful in making this happen? And the other thing is. there's got to be more than just finding a person and, and plug and play.
Right. That there's got to be a little bit more of an understanding, which is why I love that you were so active in going to the places, [00:19:00] understanding the business again, understanding the human beings to match. Mm-hmm. So what's your process when you are, you know, you've been given, this is the role, what's your process of getting that need?
And then finding the right individual.
Stacy Pursell: So the process to getting the need to finding, , the right individual. So people think it looks really easy. Uh, a lot of times they think executive search is very glamorous, but they don't see all the hard work in between. And so a client will, you know, approach me or I'll, approach them and they'll have a position open they need to fill.
And so the first step is to listen. I would say that one of the habits that, has really helped me, I'm a really good listener. And that's one of the things that people, , say about me often is that you're a really good listener. Or you, you remember that yesterday I was talking to somebody and he said, I can't believe you remembered that.
You know, the last time we spoke, I just tend to remember things about people. And, getting to know the client, getting to [00:20:00] know, their culture, you know, how this position fits within the organization. Getting to, understand a feel for the hiring manager's personality. understanding the role, what the expectations are of the person coming into the role.
What, skills and experience the company needs to hire in this person. And then looking back, this is a really important thing to know, is when they hire somebody, a year from now looking back, what do they want this person to have accomplished in their first year? and understanding how success is measured for the person coming into the role.
So just really understanding the client's goals and needs and then putting together a strategic plan or a search plan, and then making a list of people that are potentially qualified for the role or that I know are qualified for the role based on, you know, previous experience with the person.
And then, the next step is approaching those individuals to see if they're interested and also, to make sure that they have the qualifications [00:21:00] needed for the position. And so then I put together a short list of qualified people. and, and most of the people that I refer to a client, you know, these are professionals that are gainfully employed.
For the most part. They're highly regarded. They're not in the market looking for a new position. So they, you know, kind of like when I was in Oklahoma State and they were looking for a new president and that dean headed up the search committee to hire a search firm, you know, and I really wondered about that process.
Then they weren't posting ad, you know, back then the newspaper, but today they're not posting ads on Indeed to find the new president of a college. They're having to approach people that are already presidents of colleges or in the next, that's their next role in their career progression. So what I do is I approach people that, are highly regarded.
They're gainfully employed. they're happy, they're doing a good job where they're at. And I approach them to see if they would be open, you know, to other opportunities and then assess their qualifications to make sure they're [00:22:00] qualified and what is their motivation for wanting to consider this.
And then, uh, when I get a short list together of people that are qualified and interested, then that's when I introduce them to the client. So then I work with the client to set up those interviews, and then the client will interview those individuals. So they're not applicants because they didn't apply for the position.
they're recruited individuals, they've been, sought after and, and recruited for the position. So then the client goes through their normal interview process, and then at the end of the process, the client selects the person that they think is the best fit for their position.
Megan Sprinkle: That's fascinating.
It sounds like you may, you have like a little bit of a business coach to what you do too. 'cause you have to help the business be able to understand what is that expectation for their first year. Because I know plenty of people who would not be able or not present that would not have that full answer yet, when they hire someone.
So [00:23:00] I'm sure there's a little bit of work with them, getting that clarity around it so that you can approach people and that clarity probably helps. One, like you said, these are happy where they are kind of candidates, but that clarity can help them understand this would be my year, you know, with this organization.
Is that something that I'm interested in pursuing and growing for myself? So. That's, that's really interesting and yes, a lot of work, work behind the scenes on your part. I'm also curious, 'cause you said most of the people that you are approaching are already employed. I also know a lot of people who would love to be working in industry in these types of roles.
Sometimes now, and sometimes maybe a few years in the future, what would you recommend for those individuals if you're wanting to try to get an industry in these types of roles? What could they be doing now to set them up for success, to get to that?
Stacy Pursell: [00:24:00] Well, I love that question because, , there is often a disconnect with people that are in clinical, veterinarians in clinical practice that say, I wanna go into industry.
Uh, and I have an example that's very fresh. It's from last week I was talking to a veterinarian that's. Uh, working in a, nonprofit organization, has general practice experience as well, wants to get into industry, but when I started asking questions such as, can you travel? No. are you open to doing public speaking?
No. I had a position that was in, you know, commutable distance for this person. Can you know, would you be willing to drive to this office? No, I wanna work from home. I wanna have a computer, I wanna work with my phone. I don't wanna leave my house. that's unrealistic. So at the, I, I asked about a dozen questions and everything was like, no, I don't wanna do that.
No, I don't wanna do that. And at the end I'm like, well, what do you, what will you do? I don't know what I wanna do. I just wanna do something different. And so that's a lot what I hear. , And so those. People that I do actually place in industry, [00:25:00] especially the ones that don't have industry experience that are coming from practice, you can't have a list of, no, no, no, no, no, I can't do this.
No, I won't do that. you know, when a company is hiring, they're hiring because they need somebody with specific skills to do a certain job. It's what the company needs you to do. It's not necessarily what you wanna do. I mean. There has to be a match of both what you wanna do and what they wanna do, where there's not alignment.
But, you know, when a company has a position open, like for technical services or professional services, if the job requires you to travel 50% of the time or 75% of the time, you can't say, no, I, can't travel. If you wanna be hired for that position, you have to be willing to travel and meet the, the travel requirement.
If the job requires you to be able to get up in front of people and do public. Speaking, , you have to say, yes, you know, I'm willing to do that. E even if you've never done that before, or if the job requires you to, commute to an office, or if they require you to do, you know, certain things, you know, on the business [00:26:00] side, like manage a budget for example.
You know, you have to be willing to do those things. So a lot of times, I'll have veterinarians come to me and they'll say, I wanna work in industry. I don't know what I wanna do. but when I start asking them questions about their willingness to do certain things that line up with some of the most common positions available in industry, they'll say, no, I don't wanna do that.
No, I don't wanna do that. you have to be able to be flexible, adaptable, do whatever the business needs you to do, you know? 'cause a lot of times with these mergers and acquisitions, people's roles evolve over time. So you might have started out doing one thing and then two years later the company asks you to move into a different role.
You have to be willing to say, yes. And sometimes you're asked to relocate. many of the, the veterinarians I've placed in industry over the years had to relocate for that position because there wasn't a position available wherever they lived at the time. So in order for them to get their foot in the door, they had to be open to relocation.
So those people that are [00:27:00] open and willing and. Flexible, are the ones that are more likely to get hired in, into those roles versus people that are, are not flexible. Yeah, that
Megan Sprinkle: makes great sense And it's a very competitive market, although I, I do know that location is a big deal for some people, but let's say someone is open to lo relocation or they're open to travel, maybe they don't have a lot of experience speaking.
I think of a lot of these, uh, organizations. Have resources to support you to learn how to do these things. So what are maybe some things that individuals could maybe work on, or what type of skillset have you seen from veterinarians that can. Be value adds when they are added into a corporate setting?
Stacy Pursell: Well, I would say, communication skills are at the top of the list. being able to network with people. having a, you know, when you go to [00:28:00] conferences, don't just go for the continuing education, but go and meet people at different companies and. And that's how some of the best opportunities come about is through networking and then somebody thinks of you later when a position comes up.
having some business skills, you know, things like, I'd say a really important one is just knowing how business works. knowing, how the company makes money. , Having, you know, in some roles just, you know, influential skills, being able to, talk about a product or service and, in a lot of the technical services type roles, for example, people will say, well, I, I don't wanna sell anything.
Weill, the company often has salespeople, but you still have to be able to, talk about that product because the goal is to get your customer to buy the product. So then in that case, you know, everybody's a salesperson. So, just understanding how the business makes money. Being able to understand financials, you know, manage a budget, communication skills, and then adaptability, flexibility, and [00:29:00] resiliency and, and get some experience, uh, with public speaking.
it, it could be, you know, at a local shelter. It could be, in your own practice. but you're gonna be asked to do that at some point, so you might as well get some practice with it.
Megan Sprinkle: Yes, because veterinarians are seen as influencers and leaders, and so. Organizations like that aspect of it, that's probably why they're bringing you in is because you're an influencer and so you're gonna have to speak to to products.
And I always thought it was interesting that I've always looked younger than I am. So I always worried that I would not be very influential 'cause people would just probably look at me and like. What is she talking about? She's 15 years old, but, but when you can understand something at, at a depth and put in this enthusiasm behind something, it really.
It gets people to lean in. And so I, I think you don't have to be this super perfect speaker. It it, but it is [00:30:00] that understanding human beings being able to understand something and communicate it well. 'cause that's the other thing too, is Things we work on in clinic even is to be able to explain what's going on to a pet owner, for example.
And so these are skills that hopefully we're working on all day, every day in our practice, it's just applying them to a slightly different business type of setting. So these are all good tips that I hope people are taking notes and, and are taking seriously. 'cause again, I know a lot of people who are in, are interested in industry or evolving their career in some form.
I was gonna say
Stacy Pursell: too, that sometimes people have to get out of their own head because, you know, I think that negative self-talk, I, I can't do public speaking. I've never done it. Well, somebody told me once, she said, don't ever say, um. I can't do that. Just, or say, say, I haven't done that yet. instead of saying I can't do that or I haven't done it, just say, I haven't done it yet.
But I'm willing to try, I'm willing to learn. [00:31:00]
Megan Sprinkle: I love that word. yet. and one other thing you said networking is great. Working well with others is also huge. I got asked once, uh, a scenario and they're, they're like, well, don't you worry about a bunch of egos coming together?
And It's, you know, going back to listening, you can bring a lot of perspective, but you also have to make sure that you're. Presenting it in a good way where people are excited and can lean in and it's good discussion too.
So I think that's something too that maybe in practice you haven't had to do as much. I sure hope you have because life is working with other individuals, so you really need to learn how to do that. But it's even more so 'cause there's. So many more moving parts, at least in my experience in the industry setting.
So being able to interact and work well with all of those different. Stakeholders, internal stakeholders, I, I think is also super important.
Stacy Pursell: I would agree with you, [00:32:00] Megan, that is so important. Um, you get a room full of people and you mentioned egos, but, you know, give everybody an opportunity to talk and give their input.
There can't be just one person that talks the loudest in the room. You know, you, you bring, you work in part of a team. You work as part of a team. Let everybody on the team have in a vo, have a voice.
Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. , And this just popped into my head, you know, you had mentioned the different, in our gender, uh, representation in the veterinary industry.
what are some of the things that you've seen about these very successful women who can come into great leadership roles? What are some characteristics? What are some of the things that you see?
Stacy Pursell: Oh, well, there's so many women, that are leaders in our, profession that I can think of.
I can just see all their faces right now. I would say one is, uh, being able to. Like you just said, work with people and, collaborate. being supportive of your team, bringing out the best in your team, [00:33:00] and just good, communication skills. those are some of the things that come to mind, but just being, being support, being supportive of the people on the team.
Megan Sprinkle: we've been thinking a lot about the future of careers in, in the veterinary industry, and I think you are. In the thick of it, you, you know, , what's happening now, what's probably coming in the future.
So of what you can share, what does the veterinary career market look like? now, like, what's kind of the new things that are evolving that people should be aware of and, and maybe know about?
Stacy Pursell: Mm-hmm.
Megan Sprinkle: Well,
Stacy Pursell: you know, this is 28 years in this profession, so a lot has changed, A lot has evolved. but. I would say that, You know, one thing right now that's happening 'cause it's been a very hot industry, so I'll go back to 2008. a lot of people talk about the Great Recession in 2008 and they talk, you know, the veterinary shortage or is there not a veterinary shortage? we were. So [00:34:00] busy back in 2008 during the Great Recession, and, and I kept hearing people say our industry's recession proof, and, and we were seeing a ton of hiring back in 2008.
I turned off the news because the news is so negative and I would go to bed at night just. Depressed listening to the news. So I've learned to turn it off and it's a lot more peace in my life. I don't have to worry about that. I still know what's going on. But back in the right recession, I kept hearing there's too many veterinarians.
Uh, they're all gonna be unemployed, and I'm hearing this on the news, but I'm going, well, we are so busy. We have clients that can't hire veterinarians because they can't find them, and we're so busy placing them. In fact, we placed more veterinarians in 2008 going all the way back to. 1997. So, you know, the industry has been hot.
You go through Covid the last five years. some of the data right now is showing that veterinary visits are down. , So there was a lot of talk about, you know, the price increases. Is it affordable? The vet visits. Are down. so that, I would say that's something [00:35:00] to pay attention to, that that is significant.
You know, one of the things that I've seen this year in 2025 is, you know, one of our clients reduced their sign-on bonuses by 50%. I'm seeing a little bit of softening in the market with c lients are finding it easier to, you know, where maybe they didn't have any applicants and now they have three all of a sudden to choose from.
I just have a candidate interviewing, with one of our clients and she really wants this position and our client has a few other candidates that they're, trying to side between. So she's hoping to get it, but she's one of a few candidates. So where clients in the past might. You know, have had just one candidate to consider for a role.
Now they've got multiple candidates, so it, it's getting more competitive right now. but, you know, I don't know what the future holds over the next, two to five years. But I, I know that our industry is always going to be in, in demand.
Megan Sprinkle: So for people that might be in that, where they're up against quite a few [00:36:00] candidates and maybe they're struggling to find what they feel is a good match for them.
Do you have any recommendations on what they could do?
Stacy Pursell: One of the things that's probably gonna influence this client's decision is the start date. You know, who can start the soonest? cause you know, if you are in a contract and you can't start until July and they need somebody to start, you know, in May, that's gonna be part of their decision making process.
So, things like, you know, believe it or not, sometimes I. I'm surprised at myself that I have to say these things. But to remind people to dress professionally at the interview, show up on time, follow up, send a thank you note after the interview. Communicate, you know, communicate with the the employer, communicate with the recruiter if you're working with the recruiter.
cause those candidates that have superior communication skills and they follow up. 'cause I've had clients, had a client just the other day, um, actually we sent a candidate to this client recently and she said, we interviewed this person in the [00:37:00] past and they were not very responsive. they were not quick to get back to us, so therefore we're not gonna consider that person right now.
And, and that's happened multiple times over the years. I actually made a placement a couple years back. I had sent a candidate over to a client for a position and the client said, we had interviewed this person previously and she ghosted us. And so I shared that feedback with the candidate. She said, I really want this job right now.
I said, well, they're concerned 'cause you ghosted them in the past. And so I was able to talk that through with the client. They ended up hiring her. But you know, people might think we've been in this great hot market for the past few years and I have all these jobs available to me. I. You know, don't have to get back to the employer, to the recruiters.
Well, markets change, markets soften, and then they get hot again. And, you know, we're in a little bit of a softer market than we were two years ago. So those candidates that are highly responsive and communicative, they're gonna have, better results than those people that, that don't respond or [00:38:00] ghost employers.
Megan Sprinkle: Ooh, your first impression is it's a big deal. So I mean, just the one little thing that you do that can be a lasting impression.
And even if you don't want something in the moment, I think it's really good philosophy to be the. Best human being the best representative that you can be. Just again, to not burn bridges when you might in the future want something and, and we don't always know what we want in the future, actually. In fact, most people probably don't know entirely what they're, what they're gonna want in the future.
'cause we just. We grow, we evolve. The world grows and evolves, and we just don't know. And I feel like I always say this is the, uh, it's a big little industry, right? It, it's, you know, people can come back around. I'm sure you see that a lot.
Stacy Pursell: Oh, I've seen, I have seen, um, People, you know, working for a manager and then five years down the road that person working for the manager becomes the manager's boss.[00:39:00]
Sometimes it's at a different company 'cause maybe the person leaves and goes to this company and then that manager gets hired in and reports to this person that they train. So, you are so right. If, we can have any takeaway from this conversation, that would be the number one thing is this industry is.
You know, people think it's big and it is big, but it's so small in terms of the, the people and the degrees of separation. It's not the six degrees of Kevin Bacon. It's like the two degrees. I can pick up the phone and call just about anybody to get to the person I need to. Speak with, and I've seen stories, I, I've experienced stories over the years where clients have told me we're not gonna hire that person because, you know, somebody in our organization had a bad experience with them in the past at another company or an interview situation.
And you know, that candidate never knows the reason they weren't hired, but they left a bad impression with somebody, you know, in that company. So just be a good human. Be [00:40:00] a good person, you know, do the right thing and, you know, treat everybody well and with respect.
Megan Sprinkle: Oh goodness. Absolutely. And you know, one other thing that you've been able to do is you've recruited your family into this, uh, space as well.
I know your husband Darrell is working with you at the vet recruiter. I know you have a daughter who works with, NAVC organization. So what was it a, about, this. I guess industry that one attracts you most importantly, but also seems to be attracting your family. Did, did you bring your kids along on, on these adventures sometimes?
Did they get to see this process?
Stacy Pursell: Yeah. So my, kids have grown up in the industry, so, you know, remember I was telling you the story about how I would go to conferences and pay my own way? Well, I, you know, there were times early in my career when my kids were little where we, you know, we would drive the entire family to Orlando.
It's a two day drive. from where I live, I'd pack all the [00:41:00] kids up and we would drive to the NAVC conference, that's what it was called back then. And they have a daycare on site there, by the way. And so my kids would go in the daycare and they would go, you know, a few years in a row and they would see some of the same kids.
Like there were kids in Europe that they would see this year, and then they would see those kids the next year. They'd become friends with them, you know, they'd remember for the year before. But, you know, so they would go. to the daycare. I would be working, my husband would be, you know, being with the kids part of the time, but offering me some support too.
And, we would tell them, you know, if you're good, then we'll take you to Disney World for a couple days after the conference. So we would do that and then drive back. So my kids went to countless veterinary conferences from, you know, VMX, AVMA, AAIV all kinds of conferences over the years. And so my daughter, we, we were working at New York Vet a few years ago.
My daughter was a college student at the University of Oklahoma. And I told her, I said, we're going to New York Vet and you know, we didn't need her to come or need her help. And she said, I am. [00:42:00] I wanna go to New York. I'll take a couple days off school. So we flew to New York. She helped us at the booth.
the NAVC people were walking by the booth and they were talking to her and they said they had an opportunity for someone to stuff all the bags over the Christmas break, all the bags that they give out with the program and all the giveaways. and they were talking to her about that. And so she was gonna go to Disney in the spring.
This was actually in 2019. Uh, she was gonna go to, the Disney, internship or the Disney College program in 2020, which she did. Sadly, it got, you know, canceled halfway through and they sent everybody home. But it was that time period before, since she was already gonna be there for the Disney college program. She went down there and stuffed bags for like a week or so before the conference, and then she worked the conference with them and then she was already in Orlando, so she stayed and did her internship. So, that next summer, she actually did a, internship for an animal health pharmaceutical company.
their marketing [00:43:00] director had gotten promoted to run the US business unit and they hadn't replaced him. And from what I hear from people that worked there, my daughter helped run the marketing department, that summer at an animal health pharmaceutical company. And so she graduated, from the University of Oklahoma with a degree in marketing and finance.
And she was interviewing for jobs and the, the NAVC approached her again and said, would you like to come work for us when you graduate? Um, and we'll move you to Orlando. And she's always been a big fan of Disney and Orlando. So going to Orlando was a huge benefit for her. So she's been there now, two and a half, almost three years.
It'll be three years this summer, and she loves working there. my youngest daughter graduated from Texas A&M last December. And she now works for Elanco. She's a, chemical engineer or a bioprocess engineer in one of their manufacturing plants where they make vaccines. so she does stuff with, I think quality and sterility and, engineering.
So she's, about [00:44:00] four months into that job and is learning a lot and really enjoying that. And then my oldest son, he's a junior at the University of Oklahoma. He's studying computer science and AI. So he's been working with, an animal health company that's involved with inventory in veterinary practices.
And he is been helping them, with , writing software that uses AI to track inventory. So he's been able to save them hours of time, I think a week on tracking inventory. And then my fourth child is a sophomore at the University of Oklahoma. He's gonna go into banking and then my youngest child graduates from high school in three weeks.
but my husband joined me about 10 years ago. He's a CPA. He was working in public accounting for, at the time, the big six public accounting firms, and then he was a controller for a telecom company. So he worked for this entrepreneur that started a tax and accounting software company, and he worked for him for years.
And then he sold that company and started a telecom company. And my husband was [00:45:00] one of the first employees he hired, and he was the last employee at the company 'cause he sold the company to Cox Communications and they wanted to move my husband to Alanis. So when that happened, I, convinced him to join me.
That was about 10 years ago. 'cause I needed his skillset. He's got the accounting and the operation skills and , I have the sales and marketing skills. So, now we've been working together for about, uh, 10 years and I really appreciate, his skillset.
Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. Well that is so cool. While I don't work directly with my husband, we both work from home and, and we do help each other quite a bit on some of our entrepreneurial, uh, projects that we have.
And it's, it's a lot of fun because you really appreciate what the other does all day.
So sometimes that can be good.
Stacy Pursell: Well, it's interesting because, you know, we don't work from home. We're in an actual office and our offices are on polar. Opposites of the, the space that we have. We're on the top floor of a bank and uh, we're, his office is over [00:46:00] there. Mine's over here. We have people in between us.
And so, sometimes I see him in the mornings. We have a morning meeting and I'll see him at the end of the day, at the end of the day meeting, and we pass each other in the hallway sometimes. Sometimes I have to call him, but I'm not like directly in his face most of the day. and I'm on the phone.
Most of the time, and he's on the phone a lot of the time and working on projects. So there's like hours, you know, throughout the day. Like most of the day we don't even see one another.
Megan Sprinkle: Yeah. So probably not even that different if you had completely different companies you're working for. you know, I have a, a couple of final questions, but. Before I, I kind of start wrapping up with the final questions. What have we missed? What is something that you think is really important that we should discuss for the veterinary audience? I.
Stacy Pursell: You know, I would say that, um, there, this, this is the best industry, you know, both the animal health industry and the veterinary profession.
This is the best industry. When, when I've had people leave the industry [00:47:00] and go do something else, they usually wanna come back. the people are what brought me here. What keeps me here is the best people working in this profession and the future is bright, there is so much opportunity out there. you know, we haven't really talked about the hidden job market, but if you google statistics about the hidden job market, uh, I read one stat that more than 60% of executive roles are not posted online.
They're in the, hidden job market. You know, you hear about people that get jobs and you're like, I never saw that job posted. I know that job existed. and that goes back to the network. The bigger your network, the more opportunities you're gonna have. 'cause you're gonna know more people, they're gonna think about you when a position comes up.
But, you know, I once talked to a veterinarian that was in charge of regulatory affairs for Coca-Cola. , I once talked to a veterinarian that was the head of quality assurance for Campbell Soup. your veterinary skills can take you to other industries. Like the human food and beverage industry.
, So there's opportunities outside of [00:48:00] this industry, uh, for veterinarians, but there's so many opportunities in this industry for veterinarians. And sometimes, you know, people, they've never thought about, doing this other thing. Like I had a. Candidate I was working with and I placed her in a role.
She was in professional services and I placed her in a role where she was in a liaison position working between marketing and R&D and communicating information back and forth to different departments. And she said, I've never heard of a position like this, but the company hired her because of her skillset.
'cause she could communicate technical information back and forth to different departments within the company to get everybody on the same page. So, uh, my advice for people is this. This one thing, always be open to opportunity. I was talking to, uh, a veterinarian who's an executive in this space just this week, and I called him about a position I'm working on and asked him if he would be open to it, and he said one thing I learned early in my career is always be open to opportunity.
Never say [00:49:00] no, E even if you have a good position, listen, if somebody put something in front of you, if a recruiter calls or somebody your network calls, don't say no without listening to what the opportunity is. And you know, some of the best jobs out there are, are jobs that people were not expecting, they weren't looking for, and they just came across their, their desk.
I remember, one person a few years ago, I called her about a. Position And she said, no, I'm not interested. And I ended up placing somebody else in the position and then she heard about it, and then she called me back and she said, that is my dream job. Why didn't you call me about that? And I said, well, I did, but you told me you weren't open to opportunity.
And she said, I am kicking myself now, because she's like, that is my dream job. So she turned it down. She said no before she even knew what I had to say. So always hear about opportunities. Don't turn something down before you hear about what it is.
Megan Sprinkle: Oh goodness. That like breaks my heart just hearing, hearing it.
So, oh, definitely one [00:50:00] of the big take homes. There's been a lot of take homes from this episode. I'm so excited to share this with people. So I last two questions I have for you. , You've done so much, you have. Brought people to their dream jobs. You have, brought the person to a business to make that business successful.
But when you look back so far, what is one thing that just comes to mind when you think about something you're really proud of?
Stacy Pursell: Oh, that's a hard one because what I really enjoy and I work with all kinds of companies. I work with Fortune 500 companies, I work with startups. I work with mid-size, I work with animal health companies.
I work with veterinary practices. But one of the things I am most proud of is just being like some of the startup companies that I worked with at the very beginning, uh, when they had. Three employees, I'm thinking, I don't wanna say the name, but one company in particular now is a. Is a big company. so just being [00:51:00] there on the ground floor, uh, when a company is starting and being able to put their entire team together from sales, marketing, research, regulatory, and just put that whole team together.
one of my candidates, uh, that I placed in the year 2000, so that was 25 years ago, I saw her at one of the conferences in the last six months, and she said. That position that you placed me in 25 years ago , because I built their whole team. She said that entire team, she goes, that was the best culture I've ever worked in in my entire career.
And that whole team that I built, they're all friends to this day. She actually put something out there on LinkedIn about it a while ago. But, I saw a picture of their whole team when I was in Orlando this year at VMX. somebody put on, we were at this event and somebody put a picture of this whole team, and I looked at that team, I'm like, that was 25 years ago.
And they were all at a costume party dressed up in like seventies costumes And, and she said, that was the best team I've worked with in my entire career. So I [00:52:00] would say, you know, that's one of many examples, but you're not just filling a position in a company. But I built that team and 25 years ago, that team, they're still close friends.
So that just, that made me proud.
Megan Sprinkle: the team, the people you work with can make a, a rough job. Amazing. Because of the human beings that you get to be a part of working with every single day. So that's a amazing example. And then my last question for you is, you know this, this can be beyond work, but when, when I talk about gratitude, what comes to your mind?
What are you really grateful for right now?
Stacy Pursell: I am most grateful for just the opportunities that I've had, both personally and professionally. I'm very grateful for my family. You know, I've been married to my husband for, it'll be 29 years in June, so next year in 2026 it'll be 30 years. And my five children, my husband just, he used to joke when our kids were little, that we were keeping five alive.
'cause it feels like in the moment, like you're [00:53:00] just. Tr try not to let anybody die. You're try, you're trying to remember to feed them and, you know, make sure nobody gets lost or, um, so I'm really proud that my youngest son is graduating from high school in three weeks. 'cause I feel like we have kept five alive and, um, he'll be 18 this summer.
I'm like, we survive. They, they're all still alive and they're doing well and they're thriving. so I'm proud about that. And then I'm just proud about, the opportunities that I've had, the people that I've worked with, clients, candidates. , I'm very proud that I was able to build a successful business when somebody said, that can't be done.
That's not a niche, that's not an industry. There are no recruiters. And that's space. And, um, I've been working in this space for 28 years as a recruiter, and I, um, am very proud of the work that I've done.
Megan Sprinkle: That's amazing. Thank you so much. when are you writing a book?
Because I feel like you should be able to do a fantastic book, uh, on , just all the things that you have learned and about this profession. I just think I would totally read that book. [00:54:00] So when you do write it, let me know 'cause I'll be one of the first to purchase it.
Stacy Pursell: I've been working on it for over 10 years, so one of
Megan Sprinkle: these days.
I hope you enjoyed this fascinating veterinary story. We can make an impact in so many places. Check out the show notes for lots of resources. Please make sure you are subscribed on your podcast app. Subscribe on the YouTube channel and follow me on LinkedIn where I hang out the most. You can contact me on LinkedIn on the [email protected] and brand new is that you can text me to send me a text message.
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