Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Couple of Nukes. As always, I'm your host, Mr. Whiskey. And if you're new to this show, I'll let you know that we cover addiction recovery quite a bit on the show. It's something near and dear to my heart because I have, you know, seen so many people overdose and pass away.I've seen lives ruined, families ruined, my own family ruined by it. So it's something very important to me. And we've covered a lot of different types of addiction because addiction isn't you know we always think drugs or alcohol or maybe even pornography which we've covered all three of those topics on the show, but There are so many things out there that addiction is spreading to especially with social media and technology making it so much easier to Go into these different worlds to be distracted And on the flip side of that we see technology being used to help people You In addiction recovery or get to addiction recovery and we have two guests here today who are doing just that Wanda Webster and Christopher Mack are here to talk about what they're working with And how they're using technology and literature to help people heal from trauma and recover from addiction So would y'all please introduce yourself ms.Webster ladies first, of course Oh, good morning. My name is Wanda Webster. This man, Christopher Mack, uh, was the inspiration for our program, which, because I'm a writer, I created. I'm an educator. I work right now as an educational therapist, work with children with special needs, creating individualized programs for them.But in the past, I've written several social emotional programs. So when I met Christopher, this was a new world for me. I didn't know anything about. My curiosity, you know, led me to hear him speak at many of these events. And a woman stood up and said, I love all this information, but why am I the way I am?And I wanted to know the answer to that. Well, AA never really addresses this. So I started doing research. And, you know, started tying, you know, connecting the dots between, between trauma and self soothing behavior that's unhealthy. You have healthy and unhealthy habits. But that's part of it. An unhealthy habit.And, uh, thus was the start of creating a program which turned into a couple months here. Well, my name is Christopher Mack and, uh, my recovery started in, uh, 2000. And so I'm from Los Angeles and I grew up in a Drug culture, but I always wanted to use drugs so that I could find out what's on the other side of the veil I always wanted to know what is life really about, you know Rather than the physicality because we always based our life upon our physical existence and so as I started in my recovery journey about time I was 10 years into recovery and I realized that there was these aha moments that came about that really, I knew that that was the transformation.When you have an aha moment, it says, oh, wow, and something just seems to share. And so I started to see the dynamics and recovery. And I said, there's a dynamics, there's an activity that is a result of, you know, certain practices. And those practices are about applying principles, principles. They don't apologize.They just work principles like honesty, open mindedness, willingness. Those are some of the principles that are, that govern some of the steps in AA. And so, as I begin to understand these principles that work in my life, I said, wow, there is a dynamics to recovery, but it starts with the journey within. And so being with a brilliant woman, um, I was able to, uh, find out some things and learn a little bit more about myself.Uh, and the more I discover myself, the more I'm at home with me. And so, uh, that's how. Uh, she got the journey within because of the dynamics of recovery. There is a dynamic. Well, we say the journey within, which is. Uh, the first book, the journey with, okay, right. Uh, how many years sober are you? Well, in September, this September, I was 24 years.Uh, and I'm like, Mr. Whiskey. I don't, I don't think that recovery is just for substance. And most of the time people think, Oh, recovery. That's what's up. But recovery is actually getting back that which is lost. Yeah. And I believe it's the part of our nature that we lose when we are born because we come into this physical world and we forget some of the beautiful parts that we are, and we don't interact with that as we, but if you're interacting with your, uh, with your, your mental, emotional, Uh, body and it's imbalanced and, you know, more power to you.However, uh, there are certain things, uh, that will take you away and you use them, we use them as coping mechanisms. So that we can feel okay at any given moment, but I once had a sponsor in the, uh, he told me, he said, Christopher, like, why do you always have to, why do you always have to feel good? And he said, sometimes you don't feel good and that's okay.Sometimes I like to get back to just being okay. Yeah. Uh, everything y'all said really resonates with me. I know I recently actually went to New Jersey on a trip and Did a photo shoot with Jeanne Economopoulos, and she had been on my show talking about her journey And she said something that that y'all have hinted at which she said she was an alcoholic long before she ever had liquor Because she had all the predetermining factors to it.You know the trauma this and that and What you kind of hinted at Mr. Mack is you know in the episode a couple weeks ago Steps Ministry You With Steve Ward, he created a program after he recovered, realizing that so much that is taught in AA could be used as a preventive measure. That recovery wasn't about the substance, it was about the person as well.So, everything you're saying really resonates with me. And, yeah, a lot of times it's like AA can, You know addresses the symptoms and the after results, but sometimes it doesn't delve deep enough into the beforehand because i've seen people Go through rehab as well, especially rehab where they go through rehab and then they get out And eventually whether it's a few days or a few years they start drinking again Because their body doesn't physically need it anymore.Uh, and there's even other, you know, treatments out there like the laser acupuncture I featured on my show. Where you can get rid of the physical symptoms and ailments for wanting to be addicted. But the mindset takes over because our mind is, as you call it, uh, Mr. Mac, clever. And to, and it is good at convincing us and deceiving us into doing things.And so, uh, Well, people will end up drinking again because they didn't address those root causes and do that journey within. So, in a play on words there, with your book, what exactly does that book do for us? You know, who should read it and what was the creation of it for? You want to tackle that one first?We often say it's a disease of the mind. It's obsessive, compulsive, compulsive thought behavior. So the obsessive thoughts lead to compulsive behavior, and that is habit, and you don't have control over that. That's why they say it takes away your choice, because that is leading you, that clever mind that.That obsessiveness, the compulsiveness is leading you to whatever, you know, it's funny. I don't come from that drug culture world, but in this program, and me even writing this, I realized. I was an addict with people pleasing. That can be an addiction. And that was born from a trauma from being bullied by my sister.Relentlessly. And so I always wanted to make people happy. I wanted to be invisible. I wanted to play small. Well that is great when you're a child. It's a great coping mechanism. Because we're just children. We can only handle so much. But when we get to be an adult, That's, we've outlived that coping mechanism.That doesn't really, it's unhealthy for us anymore. So, yes, it's a disease of the mind. And it, and when you're trying to fix something that you don't know, you're using the wrong tool. It's like trying to fix a Mercedes with plumber's tools. And you have to go inside to find out what that mind is about. My partner, JJ, who helped me with the dynamics of recovery.He used to say, I have a mind, but it won't mind me. And so we have all of all of these, these, these occurrences and these incidents in life. That become a radio operator sending up signals. It's like it's like when I was born, my mom had tuberculosis. And I didn't have a close relationship with her, but that that that hole that was left with by that drama kept sending out messages.I need this. I got to have that. I got it. And they do say that ADHD is the way the brain is formed so that it can protect itself. And so, you know, with that, I, I, I developed ADHD and so there was always this, Oh, I got to know this. I got to know this. I got to know this. But the part I was looking for was, is deep inside of me, that beautiful spark of life of energy that, that exists and I have no relationship with it.And so you say, what does the book do? The journey within is actually a workbook, and it's one where you, you look at, uh, the first chapter would say it's more than a flesh wound. Well, when we have a flesh wound, we get cut and stuff. We know how to get it. They get it taken care of. We right. But what about those internal wounds that become those operators in our life that be sending out those signals?And it's a habit because we're so familiar with it. Oh, I thought about that. That's cool. Oh, it's it's what I am. You know, I'm a nonconforming. That was my battle cry. So whatever it is that you offered me wasn't what I was offering myself. I mean, I don't have to do it that way. That's your way. Who do you, you don't know me.It's so clever conversations that are going internally and now I have no choice. I have to do and obey what it is that operator is sending out to me. And so the journey within the, like the first chapter is more than a flesh wound starts to say, Oh, well, what is that wound that's inside? That's sending out these messages.that robs me of choice at any given moment. And so when I start to find that I'm operate, that's the way I'm operating. Now I can save it. What is the fix here? What is the tool that I need to do? And so going inside and starting to look at some of the things that didn't serve me, some of the things that were unhealthy.We don't, I don't like to use good and bad, right and wrong anymore. I like to use what is healthy and what is unhealthy because healthy things result in well being. Unhealthy things result in discord. No, I agree because I was going to say good and bad, you know, they're, they're justifiable. You can twist them around, but healthy and unhealthy, it's black and white.Either it is or it isn't, you know, there isn't, well, maybe this, or it's kind of that. You know, so I completely agree. And I also agree that it's a journey because, you know, there are so many layers to it, it's not just surface level because you can go to these programs and, you know, you can look at some things surface level, but you need to really go a lot deeper because that root cause.or those root causes, you know, there could be layers of excuses of, you know, even the protection mechanisms and coping mechanisms blocking you from that trauma. But ultimately, you need to break through all those barriers to get to that so you can realize, why did you start drinking? Or why did you start doing drugs?Or why do you need to go to the gym five hours a day? You know, whatever your addiction is that you are using, That was initially a form of protection, but now has become too much, you know, it has become a limiter to your life. It has become a distraction and it has becoming a distraction between what it is that you want, what it is that you need, what it is that you can accomplish.I think we've come here, all of us come here alike and guess what? That's with great potential. Potential is the greatest thing the human being has besides resilience. I say the great characteristics of being human is that we have resilience. And that means that we get a chance to make mistakes and start over.But we cannot start over if the question is obscured. And so we have to ask the question that becomes the flashlight to the dark halls of my mind. And the right question always produces a result that will be healthy for the individual. Yeah. And then I know y'all also wrote Isabel Starry Night. Could you tell us about that book and what differentiates it from The Journey Within?Well, I get messages in my dream state and they kept telling me, kept showing me this fictional story of Isabel traveling across the United States and putting the principles into action so that it's a visual for people to see, well, what does that look like to have introspection every day and how to utilize the principles in my life to transform darkness into lightness.And that's where the book came from. I resisted it for two years, mind you, but I eventually got the book written because I didn't think I was a good enough writer. Anyway, again, that clever mind that will tell you things and beliefs. That are limiting that aren't necessarily true, and it takes a lot of resilience and courage to work through.We all have them. We all deal with them every day of the wounds, create those limiting beliefs. Now, what do I believe about myself? Because. I was molested as a child. What do I believe? Well, I believe the world is not a safe place for me. You know, is that really true? You know, and a lot of people don't even see the connection between the wound and the limiting belief now.The correct and when you start connecting those dots, you say, wow, beliefs. What are beliefs? Christopher? What are beliefs? The weakest proof of reality because you can there's unbelief. There's disbelief. There's unbelief. You know, but I sometimes think that beliefs are the weakest proof of reality. We believe certain things in it, and it doesn't match up with reality.And they change over the years. I used to believe such and such, and I don't believe it anymore. Just, you want to get to that place of knowing, and that comes from meditating every day. From knowing something versus I believe this and fight for those beliefs and that people fight because people have different beliefs.Does it really matter? This matters. How is that limiting your expression in this lifetime? Or is it limiting your, your experience? Your experience. A lot of times people, you know, people want to get rid of something, but My suggestion here is that I don't think we get rid of things. I think we transmute.Mm-hmm. We use that which we have to transmute, and then that gives us more, more, more imagination, more creativity, more energy. But what it does when you transmute something, you create capacity. And when you create capacity, how there is a blank canvas, you know, how do I turn my life into this blank canvas at any given moment when I have a habit of doing things a certain way, which brought me of choice.Once I start to transmute the energy, it no longer can come and affect me. It no longer makes me, it no longer compuls me to do something. It no longer drives me in that direction because I can sit there, I can say, wait a minute. That may not be the, the, the best way. You know, I, you know, I can go north and come around a circle to get south, but maybe I can just direct route to go south.Right. So, but we try to get rid of something. And the frustration that we're trying to get rid of something that has. Playing this for years becomes frustrating because did I do it right? I didn't do it right? Oh man, I messed up. And then, oh, I just, and then, then it causes a relapse. I just, oh, I'm just exhausted.But when you start observing it and you say, oh, wait a minute, just telling me to do that. Oh, no, no, no, I can do something different. And now choice begins to play a pivotal role. And how I behave and conduct myself for myself before you, anybody else ever is involved. Now I'm being honest because that's a direct route to making a decision rather than having the clever mind take over.Oh, you said you're going to do this. Oh, you said you're going to do that. And then all of a sudden I'm frustrated because I don't know which way to go. Yeah, and what you said, I agree with because, you know, the blank canvas analogy is so true. In fact, the episode I referenced earlier with Steps to Ministry, we talked, because it was a faith based episode, specifically about how, if you are addicted to something, how are you limiting your potential as, for God to use you as a vessel to reach others.But in the same sense, in a non faith based way, you know, if you are reliant on a substance, Or you need to use it to do something, you know, how is that limiting you? You know, it got to the point with my father, I know, he couldn't go to the movie theater without drinking, or the water park, or, or, then it gets to the point you can't go to the store, you can't, you shouldn't drive, but, for some alcoholics, they can't drive without drinking first, you know, for, they can't even, some of them can't even wake up and start their day without drinking first, so, How much potential do you have?Which you said is one of our greatest characteristics and best things about us is our potential. And if we're limiting that because we need drugs or alcohol or to do this and that, you know, whatever it may be, we're really limiting our potential to Be a blank canvas and to do all the things in life that that we want to do, you know, and when we think about our dreams and goals, we don't want anyone holding us back and to ironically have ourselves being the one holding us back the more it's, you know, it's a cruel irony.And so I just want to go back, Ms. Webster, to, I know you mentioned that Isabella's story, Night, is a fictitious tale. Uh, but knowing you, especially with the background in education, there's obviously a lot of messages built into the story that are educational, insightful. So, what would we get from that and who should read that book?Well, uh, everybody. I know. It's, what you get from this is You see the principles in action. Okay. Principles like honesty, self self reflection is a principle to me, you know, um, integrity, uh, taking responsibility. You know, not being a victim and pointing. It's that fault your fault because I'm you made me feel this way.It's about taking 100 percent responsibility. It's about showing how much power we have to transform any moment into light any moment you could walk into a room. And change the energy of the room just by your presence, right? Yeah, we've seen it. We have probably done it ourselves and maybe we're not aware of it, but you can walk into a room and be positive.Force in the room and just watch it. Just lift up. You can start come in singing a song. Everybody's energy instantly transforms. That's powerful. Very powerful. Or the reverse is when you come in and you're Debbie Downer all the time and gossiping and, you know, complaining. That energy in that room is just going to go down.The energy in yourself is going to go way down. I got when I looked at Isabelle story. I don't want to say it well. She's a white woman. I said she's a little girl. Yes, she's a white and then all of a sudden it hit me and this is what I got. I said it was a coming of age. There is this place between childhood.When does the child become an adult? And what are the characteristics of adulthood? Accountability and responsibility. And when I saw her move and shift from, from, from the doomsday girl, Debbie Downer, as she moved into a place where she was a positive influence in her life. I said, Oh, wait, that's a coming of age.It doesn't matter what color or what race you are. There's always that movement from that child of irresponsibility, yeah, selfish and self centered and now she's moving to a collective where she is in a community wherever she goes. We create communities. We're in so many different communities at one time that I think that the real part of the human experience is to be that community wherever you go.Yeah, no I, humans feed off of each other's energy a lot for sure and like you said you can choose whether you're a positive or negative influence so I completely agree, and with the two books having been discussed, I know that's not all you do, you do plenty more nowadays, in fact, as you mentioned to me before we started recording, you're traveling around, going to workshops and such, so what are you doing nowadays to continue to help other people?Well, me personally, I'm always doing something to help people. I work downtown. I'm not going to mention the organization, but I work for a health clinic. Downtown Los Angeles. And I work on Skid Row, which was once the homeless capital of the world. And, you know, to help people to navigate to resources that would serve them rather than, you know, cause them frustration.And some, uh, it's, it's. It's a highly volatile, uh, situation because you have so many personalities that are in dire straits. And when you're desperate, you know, anything goes. And so, you know, you have people that walk out, they're naked. You have people that, you know, are screaming and hollering. You have people that are cussing and fighting and everything.And you have to navigate through that. But you have to do it nonjudgmental because the minute you start to judge your bias takes over and you're no longer, you're no longer in control. You're out of control because something else is gone. Oh, it shouldn't act like that. They shouldn't be this. Oh, they shouldn't, you know, you, you become a judge rather than a servant.And I'd rather stay in the capacity of a servant because. Uh, as a servant, you could be more helpful as a judge. You're limited because you can't condemn something to execution. I agree. And Ms. Webster, did you want to share what your, your part in all of that as well? We do one on one consultations, like coaching with, with people.It could be one session. It could be several sessions, uh, working with them with the books is helpful because the journaling and the questions, deep questions, unlock the answer for each individual and the answers. I don't have the answer for you or anyone else. The answer is inside of you. We're not anybody's.Healer or guru or anything like that, but we want to unlock that for the individual. The greatest gift that we're given in this lifetime is choice and free will. Every day we're bombarded with choices. How we're going to end, where we're going to go, what are we going to do, what are we going to work on.Choice all day long. And that's why it's important for us. to work with people to say what is getting in the way of choice. Choice is more than one option and when you have a habit that takes away your choice. So we want to bring freedom into the individual so that they're able to choose and progress in their life.Instead of fall back into old habits, which are unhealthy for you. Right. And the more choices you have and the more power of your choices, the more potential you have. So yeah, tying it all together. Yeah, think about that freedom. What is that? Everybody wants that freedom right there, right? It just makes you feel wonderful and good And there's so many opportunities that will open.So that's the place we want to get the individual. We're not, the real answer lies within the individual so that they can be their authentic self. You know, we don't tell anybody what's, like I said, what's right or what's wrong. You know, you try that for yourself so that you can see what is what is healthy.Is it, is it, is it giving you the freedom? Is what I'm doing giving me freedom? Is what I'm doing helping me to understand, you know, R2V, you know, the light in my life, in my life. Because sometimes we walk around thinking we're a bright light bulb, but we just a burnt out bulb that's dark and don't understand that we are.So, it starts with the individual. We're not trying to fix anybody, but we just say, hey, take a look at this. You know, take a look at this. You're much more than, you know, how you presenting this for yourself. You're much more. And so, uh, the question becomes the flashlight to the dark halls of my mind.What's your question? You have to ask that question of yourself and when you find the right question in yourself, you, you become, you're on a journey that is liberating. You're on a journey that is free. You're on that journey that says, Oh, wow, that, that was something I used to always do. But wait a minute.It never worked out for me. And it always got me back here. I heard when you was talking about, you know, Uh, your dad couldn't, you know, go. It started that way with cocaine with me. Oh, it was on the weekend. I had a job, you know, then, then, then, then the weekend turned to to Mondays. Then it was Tuesday. Then it was Wednesday.Now, here I am. I'm in a culture that's consuming me and I have to have it because, you know, what started out as a party favorite became a hostile takeover of what I thought I was, not even being what I could be. And so, you know, I, I related that resonated with me because I know I said, Oh, it was just, oh, this is just a little fun and stuff like that.And then it turns. And now, now, uh, uh, you know, I, I live to drink and I drink to live, or I used to live and I live to use, you know, it became that scenario. And none of that was, had anything to do with me. It was something that I just wanted to say, Oh, I got to feel good. It was just like my sponsor said.He says, why do you always have to feel good? And that was a, that was a question that I use today. So that I can get to a place of okay, you know, a lot of times a lot of times what we don't find is the balance in our life where nothing's going on and everything's okay. Sometimes I'm sitting and all of a sudden I'll hear in myself I'm happy and I'll look around and I'll say, wait a minute, wait a minute.I didn't just get a new girlfriend. I didn't hit the lottery. I'm happy and it's in that little piece that I find this happiness being the greatest expression of my existence at that one moment. And I say, wow, I just heard that I was happy. You know, happiness is not an event. It's not an e ticket to Disneyland.It's a state of being. Right. I believe it's my natural state. And sometimes that's a choice. It can be a choice. I completely agree. But, uh, sometimes being of service to somebody else is the best way to raise your vibration, your frequency. So down, go out and be of service, help somebody else. And that's an endorphin releasing your brain.Yeah, for sure. For both the for the coaching for the books and for more information about y'all We're going to have the your website in the description below so that people can reach out find out More about the dynamics of recovery about the books as well as both of y'all I want to thank y'all for what you do and for coming on the show to share it to help people even further And for your continued work Thank you so much.Thank you for having us. Mr. Whiskey. I really really appreciate it. I see you, you know Uh, you know, one dish at a time, serving, serving humanity. So, and uh, I commend you for that one.
