Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode, a couple of nukes. As always, I'm your host, Mr. Whiskey. Now, a couple weeks ago, I released an episode where I sat down with Mr. Raul Herrera capturing Skunk Alpha, or he went over his Vietnam book, capturing Skunk Alpha, which covered the naval side and participation of the Vietnam War.
Today we are leaving the seas and we are going into the heart. Of the jungle. We are humping the boonies here with Mr. Robin Bartlet, author of a Vietnam book that he's here to talk about. And we're gonna have a great time. So Mr. Robin, go ahead and introduce yourself please.
Thanks very much Mr. Whiskey.
Good to be with you. I'm not drinking whiskey. I'm drinking drinking coffee this morning. Nice. And uh, so, um, yeah, a little back. Ground. I went to a military family. My grandfather, father and brother all attended West Point. And, uh, we took, uh, service to our country very, very seriously. Um, and, uh, when it came time.
For me to, uh, graduate from high school and, and actually I, I attended 13, uh, elementary and middle schools and four different high schools. And when it came time for me to, uh, start thinking about, uh, college, my father got me an appointment to West Point. I. But I said, you know, now for this military life, I've been to too many locations and I turned it down.
But, uh, I went to college, uh, at the buildup of the Vietnam War, and some of my classmates, uh, were getting reclassified during the summers, uh, to be drafted. And I did not wish to have that happen. And furthermore, in our family, uh, I, you know, serving your obligation. And I put that in quotes. Serving your obligation was, uh, something that was expected.
And so I joined the ROTC department, uh, at my college. And, uh, when I graduated, uh, as a distinguished military graduate, I had my choice of any branch that I wanted to go to. And so I volunteer, you know, here, here's a, a, a 21-year-old. Uh. College graduate with a, with a degree in one hand, and, uh, distinguished military graduate in the other hand.
I wanted to, uh, uh, choose the most arduous and, and, and, uh, challenging course of action I could take. So I Airborne Ranger and uh, uh, the 82nd Airborne Division. I got everything I asked for.
Right. And that's all in your book, Vietnam Combat Firefights and Writing History. I know the book. Follows from you joining the military from the very beginning, all the way, you know, until the end.
And I really like, you know how, how in detail you went about that. And there were small details in your book, especially regarding your military training and schooling that as a former military member, a formerly active duty that I could relate to a lot, there was a. Seeing in your book where you said you had gone to the library and checked out a couple books to entertain you during your free time during training, and you said they never got cracked open.
That's that's true. And that was something that, that was something that I really related to that I know a lot of active duty and veterans can 100% relate to is. You get stuff for your free time and you never get to use it. Yep, that's absolutely true.
And, and what I found, uh, of course I was raising a family at the time that I was writing this book, and, and really the only time I had to write was, uh, I had a, a job that took me on long airplane flights, coast to coast.
And, and that's when I would write, uh, on a chapter. And I was amazed, absolutely amazed at how much, uh, detail. My, my mind retained and I could become so engrossed in, uh, writing a chapter. And my book is not a traditional memoir because I didn't just follow the course of action. It's not sequential. I, I found that having talked to a lot of veterans, I had some things that happened to me, some experiences that that did not, that were really quite unusual and did not happen to them.
And that's how I kind of organized my book around various different, uh, events. That had, uh, had happened to me. And as I wrote, I, uh, my, my favorite author is a guy by the name of all kinds of horror stories, but he wrote a wonderful book called On Writing and anybody who wants to, uh, learn about writing should get that book.
And in that book he talks about falling into the computer. And I think he was talking about a typewriter when he first. Started out, but that's exactly what happened to me. I would become so engrossed in the details of the story I was trying to tell, that I, I literally would block out everything that was going around, going on around me on the airplane.
And there were times that I could, the event I was talking about in incredible detail. I mean, I, I, I saw the colors. I relive the same in incredible detail. There were times I even smelled the smells. I know that sounds crazy, but, but I did, and there were times I came away from some of the more horrific events with, uh, perspiration all over my face and underarms and, uh.
So it's amazing how much detail the mind retains.
Right. And I remember you spoke about exactly this in your book. Not only this and how you know much you were called, but the fact that you had locked it all away, you know, you had completely buried it for years and years, correct? I did. I
did. It was amazing.
'cause I came back without, I mean, I had some fairly horrific, uh, things that happened to me. Um, but when they did, I just absolutely buried them. I, I. I liken it to having a titanium steel trunk in the back of my mind. And, and I just locked down all those events in that, in that, uh, in that trunk. And it was 20 years back from Vietnam when I started to experience, uh, some leakage from that trunk and, uh, uh, some PTSD.
Uh, and, and I was very fortunate. Uh, because this was before the VA had, uh, begun to recognize, uh, PTSD, and I really wasn't connected to the VA at that time. I was raising my family and, um, uh, but I, I was in publishing, I was in the publishing field and I had helped a psychiatrist, uh, get her book published and I just.
To be on a trip that went to visit her and said, well, I'd like to have a professional visit with you. And I did. And she helped me through, uh, these sort of daydreams. They weren't nightmares per se, they were daydreams that were coming back to me. Events that had happened more, the more horrific events.
And she gave me some very simple exercises to, uh, practice and they, they didn't make the event. Go away completely. But I didn't feel like I was losing my mind and
Right. And so the, the big question for everyone who hasn't read your book or isn't aware of you is why did you end up writing the book?
Right? Well, uh, as I mentioned before, I had had some experiences that happened to me having talked to a lot of veterans of the New York, New Jersey chapter of the first Cab Division Association. And, and we have about 35, 40 vets, uh, in the area, New York, New Jersey area that come to, uh, quarterly meetings, which I plan.
So I talked to them, I've talked with them extensively and other veterans at, at that I have met along the way, and I found that I had some things that happened to me. That didn't happen to them. So that's, I really wanted to tell some of those stories. And I also hope that by writing me, that I could, I could get past some of these, uh, more horrific things that happened to me and, um, that, that turned out not to be the case because as I wrote, I.
As I mentioned, some of those, uh, events came back to me in full color and, and, um, I started having, you know, some difficult times re because of the memories and the recollections of, uh, of these more horrific events. I. But most recently, once the book was published, I've been told podcasts, uh, participating in a lot of podcasts, and I find that the, talking about these events, uh, has been a catharsis, has been helpful to me and has me, has made me feel more comfortable that I think, you know, the, the, the stories are still there.
The events are still there, but the edges. Are not quite as sharp as they used to be. If, if that makes sense.
It does. It's actually very, very interesting that you say this because like I said before, we had Raul Herrera, a Vietnam, uh, swift Boat veteran who came on my show and we talked about his book Capturing Skunk Kafa.
And basically to sum, he is, uh, one of his shit mates. They only had like a six man crew. I mean, he got shot down right in front of him. He didn't write the book. He didn't finish the book until almost 40 years later after he had served. And you know, he said he started having this guilt. He felt like he was being haunted by the spirit of his shipmate who was shot.
And you know, it started getting bad. The memories, you know, remembering that. Once he published a book, he felt this relief, this absolute relief. And kind of like you said, it's still there, but the edges are smoother. So it's very interesting. You know, obviously two people don't make a case study, but so far all the Vietnam veterans I have talked to who have, you know, published some form of literature about.
What happened to them have felt this big relief. So it's really interesting, the power of writing and, and that's really awesome. And before I go into your book and, and, and what I thought about it and, and why people should read it, I just want you to tell us a little bit about, I know you had emailed me recently saying you got an award.
Is that correct? I, I missed that. Say that again. You got an award essentially for your book, you got mentioned in a military magazine. That's correct,
yes. I, I actually had a review published in a very highly respected, uh, military journal called On Point, uh, the Journal of, um, of the Army history. And, um, they gave me a, in the summer issue.
I'm very, very pleased with that, especially because they talk about. In fact, you know, most memoirs are kind of a day-to-day, uh, diary kind of, uh, approach. And I didn't write this book that way. I, I had a, a, a number of unusual events that happened to me. Some of them were, were pretty horrific and others were quite funny and, and unusual.
Uh, had a very unusual experience with some FNGs, if you know what that means. Fing new guys. And, um, I, I. I, I wanted to, uh, lighter and humorous aspects into my book as well. So each chapter is an event as opposed to any kind of a chronological, uh, progression. And, um, uh, I was very pleased that the reviewer picked that up.
And then also as I just, uh, uh, one, the 2023, um. New York City Big book award for military nonfiction, and I'm very, very pleased with that. We'll get to put a sticker on my book, uh, with that award, and I've kind of got my fingers crossed that, uh, uh, my, my authorship will be recognized and in the reviews that I've had.
Which are on my website. Um, I'm very, very pleased that, uh, several of the reviewers have pointed out that it, it's extremely well written and easy to read. And I'll just mention that one of the reasons for that is because I had, uh, a couple of general readers. These were mostly women who, um, were friends of mine and had little Vietnam or the military.
'cause I wanted the book to be able to be read and. Understood by general readers as opposed to just military types. And several of these, uh, women came back to me saying, well, I guess you just wanna sell this book to military types. And I said, no, I want it, uh, to appeal to general readers also. And they said, well, then you better put some more personal emotion into the book and, um, get rid of all these, you know, explain all these military terms that you're using.
So I worked very hard on Berg that my mother had saved every letter. That I wrote home from Vietnam and I wrote home more than a hundred times, and she put the letters in, in their original envelope so that they were all date stamped. And I got this big giant envelope out and I put the letters in, uh, chronological order and, and I reread every one of those letters, which was.
Somewhat traumatic to read, read all, all the letters I wrote home. But I reached in and I grabbed snippets from the letters and I put them into the approach, uh, to kind of give a little more personal feel. And it's interesting too, because as I was doing that, I, I had described the story, the event, and then I, I put the little snippet in as to what I wrote home.
And, eh, they didn't always agree with one another. I didn't want to tell my parents, uh, exactly what was going on, if you know what I mean.
Right. I actually did really like that. Aspect of it where we would be reading about this event you went through and then, and then what you wrote home and you know, that little snippet, it was like, wow, you know, this is how he felt at the time.
And it's very different now. I'm not saying they, they, they contradict each other, but you know, the, obviously you looking back at it and you in the moment, you know, it's kind of. The same thoughts, but different thoughts, especially having just lived through it. But speaking of, you know, how easy it is to read your book and, and you know how military it is and all of this, I'm not a fan of, you know, historical nonfiction, but I have to say I actually loved this book a lot because it didn't feel, it wasn't just a history dump, it didn't feel like a, a military dump.
I will say there are a lot of military terms. I really like that you abbreviated most of them, gave the explanation for it and helped make it easier to read the book. Because I'll tell you, if you had every abbreviated military term written out, your book would've been twice the length, possibly. I mean, yeah, that's for sure.
So, um, I did like that you did give a lot of historical information on, on the weapons. I know I certainly learned a lot. I mean, and, and, and Mr. Robert, I have to ask, did, is this all stuff you researched or did you know all of this about the weapons having used them? Because there was a lot of information about bullets and guns that I, I was surprised.
Yeah. Well, most of that information, well, I've always been a, a strong interest in weapons. Mostly, uh, rifles and pistols. My father caught me at the age of six out in the backyard with a hammer and chisel on a box of 22 shelves, and I was pounding them open to get the powder out. So he decided, decided it was time for some lessons.
And so I, uh, I've always been interested in, in, uh, target shooting, uh, 50 foot. Uh, and then I've most recently gotten very interested in what's, what's called bullseye pistol shooting and, and that, but it's all target shooting and I've done some, uh, uh. Bird hunting as well as, uh, skeet and trap. So it's always, weapons have always been, I've always been very comfortable with weapons, but no, no knowledge of, uh, the M 16 rifle and the, uh, cnik cough, uh, AK 47.
Uh, you know, as an officer, you, you have to know that kind of thing. And, uh, 16 is something that, uh, was perfected in Vietnam and I carried. Actually I carried, uh, a, a AR 15, which had a collapsible stock, uh, at the time. And it, and that was because, you know, as the officer and platoon leader, you're really not expected to fire your weapon.
I did fire it on two or three occasions, um, once in, you know, in self defense. But, um, it wasn't my job to, to. Combat the enemy to, it was my job to direct the platoon and direct the men, um, uh, in, in my unit to, uh, fight the enemy force, whatever the situation may be. So if I was, if I was shooting my weapon, I wasn't doing my job, if you know what I mean.
Right. No, I totally get that. And, you know, you spoke of these. Strong memories and these unusual events and how the book, you know, is structured. And I have to say, it is a book I felt like where you can just pick a chapter and read it, because that's certainly what I did. I read a majority of the book and obviously I've been, I just moved and I've been busy with work, but I read, you know, I'll say 85% of the book.
And I, and I loved all of it. And it was kind of like I would pick, I, uh, pick a chapter that, that interested me. I tried to go in order. Because there is a, a overarching, you know, storyline there, but it's kind of one of those things where, you know, you just have these memorable days where something crazy happened or, you know, there was a lot of action and, you know, the, the book almost felt like unreal to me in a sense that it was so similar to a lot of military movies I've seen where, where the people you met.
This fit, this perfect stereotype for, you know, any military movie, for example, in the opening chapters of your book. I remember reading about Roberts, which I wanted to speak to you about, and kind of how you had this guy show up. He is all gung-ho, ready to go, and, you know, the experience, people were saying, Hey, you need to calm down.
He is like, no, no, I want to be a hero. And he runs out there and kind of got himself killed. And I wanted to talk to you about that, you know, the, the wannabe hero and then. Did you feel a, a guilt for that at all? Did you feel, or you felt like, you know, he kind of got what he deserved and did you see a lot of that in in Vietnam or did it seem to kind of, as the war went on, you saw less and less people with that?
I wanna be a hero mentality getting sent out to y'all.
Yeah, the chapter you're referring to in my book, worst Day in Vietnam. And, um, you know, we were all pretty much trained the same and officers, infantry officers, uh, preparing to go to Vietnam and certainly, uh, going into the premier military units like the 82nd Airborne Division and the hundred and First all went through Ranger school.
That training in particular, uh, really taught you to be totally courageous that the overall objective of that to take you to the point of physical and mental exhaustion. And then when you reach that point, that's when they put you in charge. And, uh, that was the toughest training, uh, that the Army to this day has to offer.
I think. Um. Uh, Navy Seal School is, uh, more physically demanding. But, um, this was still pretty, pretty tough course. Uh, and, and it taught you to be an effective, uh, small unit leader too. But it didn't teach you how to deal with, uh, the, the wounded and the kill and the kill men who were killed in combat.
And Roberts was, was my very first, uh, KIA killed in action and. He was a gungho gungho soldier and had gone through a, a course that the military had created because of casualties in the Vietnam War. There was a, a high demand for both officers lieutenants and for sergeants. For the, for the non-com officers.
They had a program called the Instant NCO program. Um, and my platoon sergeant was actually, uh, an instant NCO. He went through a a six month, uh, training course at. Uh, now it was then Fort Benning, Georgia, and it's now, I think, called Fort Moore, if I'm not mistaken. But, um, they came out, my platoon sergeant came out as a e six platoon sergeant, and Roberts came out as an E five squad leader.
Roberts wanted to beats and he wanted to make a kill, and he was gung-ho and we tried to get him to calm down, but, and, and he wanted to take over. He wanted to be the squad leader. My squad leaders were all, uh, SP fours. And, um, he had rank on him, but I said, no, you're not. I'm not putting you in charge of a squad until I know that, that you've learned, um, how to be a, a, an appropriate squad leader and have been in Vietnam and have acclimatized because the heat was, uh, oppressive as you.
Probably can imagine a hundred average temperature, right? Squat. But Robert said he was
the only guy wearing, you know, he was, um, improperly dressed too, which I thought was something, you know, that, like I said, your book has so, so many details to it and, and you talked about how you guys were all dressed for the weather.
'cause you, you had been there, you. Knew what to do. And here he is thinking he knows everything and he, he's not even prepared for the weather.
That's absolutely correct. And, uh, he volunteered to go out on a patrol, but you're not in charge. You have to take orders from the squad leader. And he said that was okay, and they got shot at by a sniper and he decided he was gonna take that sniper out.
Just stood up and went running at the sniper and was shot, uh, right in the head. Uh, my, my squad brought. His brought him back and it was the officer's, uh, responsibility. It was my responsibility to go through the pockets, uh, put any personal items in a plastic bag. And, um, we had a, what was called a death card, which was essentially a three by five card with a hole punched in it and a piece of string.
And, uh, you wrote the man's name on it. And for the first time, the military was really trying to record. Where the soldier had, uh, been per where he perished, where he was killed. So he wrote down the coordinates as close as possible to where the action occurred. Uh, attached that to his boot along with a dog tag.
The other dog tag remained around his neck and we didn't have body bags, but so we wrapped them in, in ponchos, the dead, in ponchos on, and I carried a ball of, of twine because when the helicopters came in and I was with the first cab division, so we had more helicopters than any other unit in Vietnam.
The, the rotor would flap these ponchos all around. So I tied it off around the head and waist and feet just so that the poncho wouldn't flap around. And, and that memory of that first KIA, my, my first stayed with me. Um, there were many other Ks. I lost a number of men. Uh, in Vietnam, and each one had to be treated with respect and handled in the same way as I've just described.
My men never wanted to do that. Uh, maybe they were a little superstitious, I don't know. But it was my job and I tried to do it with respect and, uh, efficiently as as I could.
Right. And one of the things you talk about in your book is becoming indifferent. Detached, kind of emotional, kind of losing yourself in Vietnam.
Would you say Robert's death was the beginning of losing your emotions and feeling indifferent? Or do you say was Robert's death Absolutely. The last one where, where you felt emotion? Absolutely.
That, uh, that experience required me. To, um, establish kind of a firewall or a steel trunk in the back of my mind and not to allow those kinds of experiences to impact me.
And, and, you know, the other part of that is I could not afford to get, did have a relationship with my platoon sergeant. Medic who? And, and my radio operator, but none of the other men. Um, we didn't even call each other by our names. My name was my call sign, foggy Day one, six. And men addressed me as either one six or sometimes lt, um, but never by name.
And of course no saluting. There was no insignia. The only, the only way you could tell I was an officer was on my camouflage, the band cover on my helmet. It said Lt Bartlett written in ink on the band, on his quarter inch band. That was the only way you could tell I was an officer. Well, except I was the one with the compass and the map in his thigh pocket and radio operator walking right behind him.
So platoon leaders, uh, life expectancy in Vietnam was 90 days.
Well, congratulations. 'cause you, you certainly made it past 90 days. And speaking of the. Time expectancies in Vietnam. One of the things I loved, and, and this is just a, a small detail, something that I didn't know existed. So I was, I was, thought it was really cool to learn about.
It was the short timer calendar, the new lady coloring image broken into 365 pieces. Uh, that was just something really interesting to learn about and I didn't know that the. Like, so who, who gave those out? How did y'all get those? And, and every soldier had one.
Oh, every soldier was given a, a short timer calendar.
And there was no coloring in, you only had a pencil. That was it. Many different varieties. And I have several photographs in my book of these short timer calendars. And every day you just religiously got out your, your copy of the, the short timer calendar of a and you can imagine where number one was, right?
Uh, but yeah, that was something that, and actually when you got within about. 30 days. Um, an officer only spent six to seven months in the field and then took over a staff job. But a soldier, a grunt, would stay in the field for sometimes as you got to around 11 months, the soldier started to get kind of squirrely and nervous, and it was not uncommon By that time, they had reached a rank of either spec four or sergeant uh, E five, and we'd take 'em out of the field and.
Give them a rear job for the last 30 days because they, they just were, uh, uncomfortable being in the field or, or in a combat situation. In a firefight situation.
Right. I totally get that. And one of the things I wanted to say too, about being indifferent, since you not only had so many injuries and deaths occurring around you, but also there was kind of never any time no more.
And I mean, reading your book, it, it was day after day. I mean, sometimes it seemed like y'all. Didn't even sleep. And, and, and not only that, but I mean, the most miserable conditions are miserable. When I was reading your book, it was always, it was always either, you know, hot out or it was, it was raining. It was never, never, you know, anything in unbearable.
I mean, it was just the worst conditions and not just like, you go out and, and you come back to base. It was, you were staying in the boonies, you were out there sleeping with a, a, a poncho on. During a monsoon. I mean, that was, that was awful. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Yeah. You never had, uh, at least in my memory, I didn't have very many Nice.
Days in Vietnam and the, the, the heat was in fact very, very oppressive. My unit, uh, with the first cab division operated along the demil course, so out by the Gulf of Tonkin on the east, it was rolling hills. Sandy, absolutely no overhead cover. Um, average temperature 105 to 110 had to be very, very cautious about heat stroke and heat exhaustion on a daily basis.
And then for the most, uh, most of the time we operated up closer to the Lao Ocean border on the west, and that was mountainous jungle, three canopy jungles. So you had three. Three canopies and we were trying to interject, uh, north Vietnamese regular soldiers coming across from the Ho Chi Minh Trail, and they would come across in small groups.
So we would ambush every night and I'd take an ambush out, uh, and alternate with my platoon sergeant. Um, and when you're chopping trail through jungle, following like a little. Animal path. 'cause there were no, there were no roads. And you're, you're going through mountainous jungle. Um, they're cautious about, about, um, men keeling over, especially those that carried heavy loads like the M 79 grenadier, the machine gunner radio operators, uh, they were carrying heavy loads.
Uh, had to be very cautious about them. Make sure that they were hydrated. And, and the point man and cover man in those situations were only good for about, they were chopping trail. They were only good for about 15 minutes and then you had to rotate them, uh, for, and that's what would happen. And if you had a man who had heat exhaustion or heat stroke in deep jungle, the only way out was through was to call a medevac.
Um, and they had to drop a jungle penetrator. Well, first they had to find you, and that was a real challenge in Deep Jungle because there was no GPS and, and, um, we had to cut down trees with a machete, uh, to open a hole, 10 to 12 feet, uh, that we could fire what was called a star cluster. Which is a little bit like a Roman candle through this hole in the canopy when we could hear the helicopter, and of course they're looking out trying to find you.
If you pop smoke, the smoke would just go up and hang up in the trees so they wouldn't see you. You had to fire these star clusters through this hole. Then pray that the helicopter pilot or crew chief or door gunners would see you and come over and drop the hook to take this man out. Uh, 'cause otherwise, and he, he was in danger of, uh, going into shock and, and, uh, a much more serious, uh, situation if you couldn't get him out.
That was a, that was a very traumatic experience, uh, to try and get a wounded man or, um, a man who, uh, had heat exhaustion, um, out in deep jungle. It was very difficult, very challenging. Here I was 22 years old trying to, uh, negotiate, uh, the situation. It was, it was a challenge. Uh, you know, we had training, but basically the training was open terrain, drop a drop a hook, and, and the man sat on the hook and was strapped in.
But if you had a wounded man. They had to drop a stretcher and you tied the man, the wounded man into the stretcher and they dropped the hook and then you hook the hook to the stretcher and haul him up and, and that was the only way to save his life. 'cause otherwise he'd bleed out.
Right. And one of my, uh, one of the chapters that really had me, my attention in that really.
Had me concerned was, I believe it was the chapter called Jungle Penetrator, where you did exactly what you just described, where y'all had to chop down the trees to clear away. I remember think the first star cluster didn't go off right and he missed the second one and you only had one left. Uh, that's right.
Going tell us that that chapter was. I mean, I was reading that it, it was intense, you know, and, and I was thinking to myself, this is someone only knowing in their very early twenties who has to make these decisions instantly. And, and I was really impressed with your ability to, how smart and how much you had adapted to Vietnam, where you.
Your men were able to make such drastic decisions like that. I mean, how was that, you know, did you struggle with this at first or did you feel like your training, you know, helped and then it was just a little bit of experience and then that was all you needed? How did that pro progress work out for you?
So, um, ranger School was the best insurance policy that, uh, an officer could have in Vietnam. And, um. Into the division. Uh, they went through a, uh, one week, uh, climatization and training course, and, and we observed a, uh, jungle penetration extraction. Not in jungle, but just in open terrain. Um, what, so, so the rest of it was on the job, learning on the job.
Uh, and as I mentioned before, the platoon leaders, uh, life expectancy was 90 days. A lot of 'em just didn't make it. And, uh, I survived my. I think be three things. Number one, very hard not to do stupid stuff. And, uh, while we were trained, officers were trained, uh, very, very well in ranger school. Sometimes, uh, because of the exhaustion and the heat.
Uh, you, you let your guard down and you did stupid stuff. I had one, uh, off friend who was an officer who was bringing in a helicopter and, uh. Did so by standing on a mound and when the helicopter landed, uh, you know, it just literally chopped off his head. So, I mean, things like that you worked hard not to do.
Wow. That's number two. That's unimaginable sergeant. Yeah, no, it happens. Uh, it's like cartoon. Be very cautious about bringing in a chopper. Um, 'cause the, the pilots are depending upon you to have them, they can't see down very well. They're depending upon you to land that chopper, uh, in, in a, a narrow area.
Um, and standing on a hill that just, you know, in a mound that doesn't make sense. Uh, I sat down with my platoon sergeant and my squad leaders and I said, look, you've been in the field longer than I have. I'm still the leader and I'm still in command and I'm still gonna. Be the one to make the decisions, but if you see me doing something wrong, I want you to tell me.
I want you to voice your opinion and give me your advice. And I, I think that set the tone for my platoon. And, uh, they respected the fact, uh, that, that I honored their opinions and, and, uh, advice. And then number three. I listened very carefully and paid attention to my point, man and cover man. And those were the two most vulnerable people when you were walking single file through the jungle.
And if, if they had an uneasy feeling about, uh, where they were move, where they were going, they'd call me forward. And if you didn't hear any birds chirping or monkeys screaming or, or if they just had a sixth sense that something was wrong. I did something called fire, uh, reconnaissance by fire, um, which meant that I fired artillery rounds out in front of the area that we were going, and I shot a lot of artillery.
I shot so much artillery that the artillery battery that supported us got to know my call sign and, uh. Uh, they put a budget on me of 25 rounds for reconnaissance by fire, but that was enough. And, um, after shooting 25 artillery rounds out in front of us, my men were much more comfortable, uh, in walking through an, an unknown area and, um, um, feeling that they weren't going to be ambushed.
So those were the three things that I did that I think helped me, uh, get through my tour.
Right. And speaking of appointment, bringing it back to. You know, losing your emotions. I know that you kind of almost learned how to be indifferent, but when I read the chapter about the one soldier he called Thomas, did you have survivor's guilt where you felt like it should have been you?
Because essentially he swapped positions with you. He had asked and and he said yes, and then he ended up getting, uh, I believe he was injured. On the throat and, you know, did you ever have survivor's guilt over that? You know, I, I was curious how your mind kind of unfolded when that all happened.
I know, I know a lot of veterans have had survivor guilt, but, um, one of the things I think that, uh, we were told, um.
Primarily by senior NCOs was, uh, uh, when we came into Vietnam, was not to establish friendships, not to establish relationships with, uh, with your men because you were gonna have to often call on them to put them in harm's way. And I tried very, very hard not to. Do that, but we were ambushed or, and I had to direct my men and, um, I, I just could not afford not to give direction and orders, right or wrong.
They were depending upon me to, um, you know, if the bullets were flying overhead, you, you hugged the ground. You had to take action, you had to reach deep down inside and, and direct your men to respond to the, to the event, to the action. So, um, an answer to your question is no, I really didn't have much, um, uh, survivor guilt.
Uh, I only got to close to my platoon sergeant and medic and, uh, RTO. And, uh, they were all okay. They were, uh, my, he was a small, wiry kind of guy, slim, and he would moan and groan about carrying this radio and the extra batteries. And one time at the base of a hill, I said to him, okay, I am just sick of all this whining and bitching about carrying a heavy load.
We're gonna switch packs. You take my pack and I'll carry yours to the top of this hill. When I got to the top of the hill, I switched packs back with him and I said, I will never say another word about your heavy load. It was unbelievable. I learned my lesson
right in Beacon of Hills. One of the, uh, interesting, you know, you kind of.
Marked it as a more, uh, humorous chapter compared to others was the, uh, soldier who kept essentially getting medically injured, uh, over and over again. And, and I, I really loved how you wrote that chapter. Essentially, you were, like you would say, his time in Vietnam and time in the field. It was just, you know, hilarious how it kept going, you know, time in Vietnam, it kept, you kept adding time, and then time in the field was just zero, three days.
And, and in one of the scenes, you know, you were talking about y'all were climbing a, a essentially a, a hill, a mountain, and, and that rocks would fall down and. You guys would all have to essentially brace for shock to get just smashed with a, with a rock.
Yeah. He, this was the chapter called The Story of Hard Luck, SIM Simons.
And, um, he was a soldier, um, who claimed I. That he had been illegally drafted. And, um, he came to me originally, uh, drunk, uh, and, uh, had this story about being illegally drafted and had this, and I finally said to the division cha, or the, the battalion chaplain to please investigate this story. 'cause he, he claimed it was a legitimate story, but every time he would come out to the field.
On the day that he would come out, something would happen to him. And on this one occasion, we were, uh, in, in light rain moving down to the bottom of a hill. And uh, uh, you know, was kind of snaking back and forth. I. Uh, and a lock wa a rock. He was wanted to walk point because everybody was giving him such a hard time that he spent all this time in Vietnam and never had, uh, never been in the field.
Always something happening to him. And he had, um, false teeth. So, uh, and he had, uh, dentures in his mouth and, uh, he kept breaking the dentures. And the Army requires that you're able to eat food and have teeth in order to. Be in the field. So he's leading, leading us. He's a a point man. He wanted to show everybody that he could be the point man.
And we're down at, he's down at the bottom of this hill and somebody dislodges a, a rock up above. And when that, and what you're supposed to do is turn your back to the top of the hill so if it hits you, it's gonna hit you in your pack. Not. Not your face. Well, Roberts didn't, or, uh, Simons didn't get the word.
He looked up the hill and this rock hit him right square in the face and broke his, broke his dentures. Well, now I'm sorry. It, it, uh, uh, it broke his ankle. The rock hit him in right in the ankle and broke his ankle, and we had to carry him back up to the top of this hill to bring in a medevac. To get him out 'cause he couldn't walk.
He was, had a broken ankle and I put him, we put him on top of a kind of a boulder. He was sitting there waiting for the medevac to come in. Medevac comes in and I said to him, okay, get, get piggyback on my back and I'll take you over to the helicopter. And I was wearing my steel helmet at the time and he climbs on my back and I kind of shifted him up as you normally would, uh, if somebody climbed on your back.
Kind of piggyback. And when that happened. My head went back and his chin came forward and it broke his dentures. So here he had a broken ankle and broken dentures, and he was out for another six weeks or so. Um, in, in Vietnam it was just a, a, a, a comedy of, uh, medical error after medical error after medical
error.
Right. And the, the, uh, dentures you broke were. Brand new ones he had just gotten from the first time they broke. Correct. This was
his, this was his second set of dentures.
That's, that's insane. But you know, there are people like that and we've talked about it on the podcast before. We had this guy, I call him Mr.
Malingerer 'cause um, you know, I don't know if they had that term when, when you started, but malingering was, you know, falsely. Being ill or claiming medical injuries in order to avoid duty. And we had this guy who, you know, first, oh, I have shit and splints if I'm running. And then, oh, I, I hit the back of my head on a doorway and I have a concussion.
Oh, I fell off, uh, electronic vehicle and I, I cracked my head open and he kept having all these claims for medical injuries. Kept just. Being on medical hold, getting paid to do nothing in the military. And then they went to give him a brain surgery to fix it, all his issues. And he said, actually, I'm, I'm healthy.
I feel fine.
They're like,
interesting how oh, all of a sudden we go get you this surgery and cut your head open and you feel fine. You know, but we, we've had people like this just accident prone people. Now speaking of, uh. Mr. Simmons, he had, um, you know, saying he had just gotten married and, and had a pregnant wife and all that.
One of my favorite quotes from your book, just as a military member and someone who has served, uh, firsthand with, with, you know, other military members, this perfectly described my experience and, and, and to quote your book, most of them are fine people, but some have problems, especially money drinking and women.
That was the most spot on quote about the military I've ever heard in my life. I mean, one of them. And it's, it's funny how things don't change and I mean, just money drinking and women, and it seems that military members who get, you know, paid guarantee almost always seem to spend it. And I'm, I'm sure you know, you kind of mentioned in your book that you would get to these small villages and they would have.
Prostitutes and, and drinks and stuff. And, you know, y'all had your, your currency, which is one of the things I wanted to ask you about was, I was trying to understand what script was, and you talked about how they changed it out. I remember you served as the guy in charge of the money for a little bit.
You told a story about another man who had dropped the whole briefcase and all the money flew down into Vietnam. But you said they kept changing it out to avoid, you know, black market trade. Can you kind of explain that to us?
We weren't, we were required. An officer was required to pay the soldiers once a month in cash in Vietnam.
So when you came into Vietnam, you elected how much money, uh, you wanted to receive, uh, uh, monthly. And there was nothing to spend your money on. Um, when you were in the field and even when you were at, uh, a battalion sized base camp, there was nothing to spend your money on except. Gambling, so like, uh, um, gambling situations, but most men elected to receive 50 to $75, and then the rest would either be sent home or they would have it sent to a, a bank account, et cetera.
So. That was what, uh, an officer needed to do, go back to the rear, um, draw the funds, and, um, that was always worth a couple of days and a back to the division, uh, rear and, uh, see a movie and have a hot, a hot shower and uh, a hot meal. So, um. Uh, script was what we were paid in, and this was simulated, uh, dollars.
You weren't paid in actual greenbacks, you were paid in funny money. And, um, that was what the soldiers had to, to, to, uh. That was how the, how we paid them. And usually after about two or three months, they would change the color. So it would be yellow, green, they were simulated dollars. Um, when one period of time would be red and then they would change the color and would be green.
And when that happened, you would, they would, they locked all the base camp, uh uh. Wiring and, uh, you would have these poor Vietnamese who'd been paid in script, uh, at the door, uh, desperate to have their money changed how they eliminated a lot of the blacks market.
That's, this is very interesting. And just a, a, a question for you, Mr.
Robin, do you feel like you and your men were compensated properly or do you feel like for the absolute hell of Vietnam, you should have been paid a lot more?
Well, that's a question I've never been asked. Um, I. And, um, at the time, I frankly, you know, I was a bachelor, uh, and as an officer I felt like I was well paid about the military.
I felt like I was, was well paid. I, but I also was an airborne officer, so I got extra pay, um, for being an airborne officer, and I also got combat pay. Uh, so, and when I finally got out of the service, I actually was paid a little bit higher. I came out of the service as a captain and my first civilian job basically matched my pay.
Um, so I, I, overall, I felt like, I guess. I never thought about that too much, but I felt like, I mean, when I, I think about it right now, I guess I was adequately compensated.
Interesting. Now the, the biggest question I have for you on, on this podcast session we have going here is when I was reading your book, you talk about your experience, uh, I guess you could call it a near death experience, where you were actually hit with shrapnel.
From some, you know, uh, that was one of the, the most intense chapters as well, where you were right in harm's way, you were injured. I mean, you know, in and out of consciousness, passing out for hours. And you had these thoughts, I think most people experience, um, near death bus, especially young men. A a man such as yourself who was just about 22 at the time, like you said.
Which was, what have I done with my life? Have I done anything? There's, there's so much more I need to do. Now that you're, you know, much older in life and, and you've served and you've written this book and all this, do you feel like you did much in life? Like, do you feel like, you know, if you were to pass away now, you would be satisfied, or would you still have that same feeling that you had all those years ago in Vietnam where you were like.
I need to do more. I haven't done anything, you know. How do you feel now compared to then?
Well, that, that, uh, definitely was a turning point in my attitude and in my feelings about the war and about being in combat. Um, I. And, uh, had been wounded and I was bleeding. Uh, my, my wounds were not, uh, life threatening, but I had lost a lot of blood and that was life threatening because I laid there from 10 o'clock at night until we could get medevacs in the next morning.
And then when finally I got back to the Divi Battalion, uh, aid station, I was able to get a couple of pints of blood. And then I was in no longer, I was no longer in danger. But looking back on it. Even to this day, um. I did feel at that point in time that I had not accomplished, uh, very much with my life.
And since that time, you know, I've raised a family, I've raised three sons, none of whom, by the way, have gone into the military, uh, because she wouldn't allow it. But, uh, even to this day, frankly. I still feel like I have more to accomplish, more to give. Uh, I've been very lo very involved in veteran activities, uh, specifically the honor flight program that, uh, brings veterans, uh, back to, uh, visit the memorials.
And it's a free program. It's just an incredible program, uh, to honor our veterans. Uh, and, you know, uh, vet of our. Korean, very, very few World War II vets, and it's a marvelous program to, to give them the respect and honor, um, that they did not receive when they came home. So, um, that, that's an activity that I'm very involved with and trying to support.
'cause I think it's just, it, it's just a, a wonderful nonprofit organization that does some very, very good work along with Gary Sinise and, and some of the work that he's doing. So I think I still have more to give maybe even another book in me somewhere.
Right? Well, another book would be incredible. But for this book, I wanna say it's amazing.
I definitely encourage ladies and gentlemen for all of you to pick it up and I will have links. In the description below the podcast so that you can find that book online for purchase. It is incredible. Like I said, it, it doesn't, it's historical in a sense that you learn a lot of information, but it's not like a boring piece of historical literature.
It is action packed. It is emotional. It is like you're watching a movie. I mean, the amount of detail, Mr. Raman, that you go into, like I said. I can, you know, see, hear, and feel everything. I mean, all the, you create a very vivid environment and so. Going on that topic, I wanted you to bring up here your website and all your information that you'd like to put out there for us.
So yeah, I'd, I'd really like to end with a statement. Uh, I wrote a blog, uh, and it's on my website, which is www.robinbartlettauthor.com. That's where you can go to my website and there's a blog there called Welcome Home. And those two words are magic words for Vietnam veterans. And you know, there's absolutely nothing wrong with saying thank you for your service.
It's something that least said. But if, if you see a Vietnam veteran and, and you can usually recognize 'em 'cause they're, they're proudly wear their ball caps with, uh, pins and, and their insignia, uh, on the ball caps. But if you say, welcome home to a Vietnam veteran. Um, and, and watch the result, uh, you will see a game changer because, um, many Vietnam veterans were not welcomed home.
And to say those two words to a Vietnam veteran to acknowledge and thank you, thank them for their service, uh, shows that you really have, uh, uh, an appreciation and an understanding for what. They went through in our war, and it'll bring lis lumps to our throats and tears to our eyes. And I, I, I suggest to everyone that they try it and watch, uh, watch the result as opposed to saying Thank you for your service.
Try, just try saying Welcome home. Um. A fan. Those are the code words for Vietnam veterans.
All right, Mr. Mr. Rob. I'm definitely gonna try that out. I think that's something that is something that was unique to the Vietnam War, uh, which was the, the controversy of it. And like you said, most soldiers weren't welcome home, which after, you know, humping the boonies for, you know, months.
In those unbearable conditions to come home to the people that you were doing that for, to not be welcomed. I, I can't imagine what that feels like. So that's definitely a very powerful message you just gave us there. And I wanna thank you in general for coming on the show and I telling us about your book and, and sharing your experiences with us.
We really appreciate you getting personal with us and sharing your life story with us.
Well, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. Thank, it's been a great session. Thank you.
