Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of Couple of Nukes. As always, I'm your host, Mr. Whiskey, and this episode will be coming out not too long after the holidays, and it's a wonderful time for everyone to get together. But we also do see, unfortunately, a huge spike in suicide and depression around the holidays, especially those of us who live alone or a bit more isolated.And so this episode ties in with that because we are going to be talking about grief. About how love never ends, and that, you know, the loss of someone, it's, it's a physical thing, but those memories are always there. And we're going to talk about how, even as believers, death is still a difficult topic for anyone.We have the love and promise of God's everlasting kingdom, But that doesn't mean it's not hard to say goodbye to the people we care about. And we have a guest here today who has created a way and a center of resources for people to come together to express their grief to find some peace and to help their faith because death is one of those major events in life that can really shake up a person's faith.So we are here with Kevin Skellett to talk about the Love Never Ends ministry. Mr. Kevin, would you please go ahead and introduce yourself for us? Yes, I'm Kevin Skellett. I am an author, a pastor, and founder of Love Never Ends Ministry, which I founded a number of years after I lost my son to suicide. And that was really the main reason why I started Love Never Ends, to help other parents who had lost children.And recently, at the beginning of this year, we Converted that over to more of a ministry for all types of grief and loss and, um, you know, it's just been, uh, very helpful, I believe, to a number of people. We do workshops, we do online groups and things like that as well. So all those things really to help people who are struggling with any type of grief or loss, right?Every type of grief is so difficult, but especially We always say that to be a parent and lose your child is especially hard and then to have it be suicide. It's Suicide in general leaves the people Around and connect to that person with so many questions with guilt with regret, you know Kind of this self blame and we'll get into that actually if if you don't mind answering, you know How did you feel?When your son took his life, did you have especially as a as a parent as a father? Did you put the blame on yourself? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. That was one of the big things that I had to deal with was just the, um, just the, the shame and the guilt. Of it being a suicide and then trying to figure out why my son Mark took his life.Um, he had a lot going for him and I know that he did have some mental health, uh, issues and that was certainly a contributing factor and he had a number of other things throughout his life that, um, I think probably led to. His decision to take his life, but, um, I came to those realizations long after trying to blame myself and, and I had to really work through a lot of that guilt and shame and finally get to the point where I could forgive myself, um, and just kind of let, let that go because there was just so many unanswered questions.That I would never get the answers to anyway, and just putting all that on myself and trying to carry all that, that was just way too much. And, um, you know, God brought me to that point where, you know, forgiveness is the key and, um, you know, letting go of these things that I was trying to hold on to, um, which I didn't need to.And that was really him telling me that you can let them go, give them to me. And, uh, And we'll work through them together, so. I think that the forgiveness of ourselves is often the most difficult, especially when there are so many questions, so many what ifs. And I have to ask, were you a pastor at the time, or did that happen afterward?I was in the process of becoming a pastor. I, uh, I was taking, uh, classes to become licensed as a pastor. I was actually in a class that was required. Um, I was two thirds of the way through the class when, when Mark took his life. Um, and I needed to get through that class, uh, to get my license cause I was planning on marrying my other son later on that year.So, uh, yeah, it was, uh, I was on my way to becoming a pastor. Um, I was already, you know, I'd given my life to Christ. I was serving in a lot of ministries at our church and things, um, helping people with divorce and other types of recovery types ministries. Um, so that was kind of where I was when that was, um, when, when this all happened, um, I did.complete that class, um, because I had most of the points were right there at the end. Um, and so that was kind of hard, uh, trying to complete all those assignments and everything, going through the grief, going through the memorial service, all those types of things. But, um, I had a, uh, grace filled, uh, instructor for that one.So that was, that was certainly helpful. So would you say the difficulty came about, was it mainly because you were distracted by the grief, or was it you were starting to have doubts about, uh, God, and in the world, did it kind of shake up your faith? Uh, it did not shake up my faith. I'll tell you the, the morning that I found out, uh, I got a police, the police detective had called me about 8 30 in the morning and he asked if he could, you know, meet with me.And I said, well, why do you, what do you need to meet with me about what this, what's this all about? And he wouldn't answer me at first. He kept dancing around that. And then finally I said, you know, is it, did I do something wrong? Or, uh, he said, no, you didn't do anything wrong. It, it's in, it pertains to your son, Mark, and I'll be over in a little bit.And he hung up. And so I just had to go through, well, why is that the police calling? So at first I thought, well, if it was an accident or if he was hurt, the police would have told me where he was or what hospital he was going to. Right. Uh, if Mark was arrested, I figured Mark would be calling and not the police.Yeah. And I thought maybe, you know, Mark was investigating, being investigated for something. Um, but that really wasn't his nature. He, he didn't do things like that. So eventually I got to the point where I thought, well, this sounds like a death notification. And so before I had gotten the official word, I had already come to the conclusion that, you know, Mark had passed away by some means.I tried calling his phone, but it went directly to his voicemail. So I couldn't get any information that way. Um, so the first thing that I did, I was home by myself. My wife had already gone to work and my older son and had gone to work and our younger son had gone to school. So I, um, uh, I just sat down on the couch and, um, figure I needed to talk to someone.So I wanted to talk to God. And so, uh, I started out thinking it was going to be a prayer, but I don't know if it was so much of a prayer or not, cause I just kind of put my hands together and bowed my head and just said, Father, Uh, my son is dead and God immediately, uh, replied back into my head and he said, um, my son died too.I know exactly how you feel and, uh, that just brought a lot of comfort right there. It's kind of hard to get mad at God, uh, when he's answering you, things like that. Um, and, uh, so I sat there for a minute and he said, Then he said, by the way, he's not your son. And so I had to wrestle with that for a little bit because I was thinking, you know, what, what does that mean?Uh, I was there when he was born. I had been with him. He, all his life, he looks like me. Um, and as I was going through all that, it seemed like a long time, but I don't think it was just a couple of seconds. And then God said, he's my son. I gave him to you. And, um, The only thing I could think to respond was, say, thank you, Father, for the time you gave me with Mark.And so, in those just few, probably less than a minute, um, God had taken me, brought me comfort, really. He told me who Mark was as being his son, and then he got me to be thankful on what would become the worst day of my life. It was just a very powerful conversation and probably one of the most intimate conversations I ever had with God.And then, you know, he, he was just continued to be with me throughout the whole process of getting to the memorial service and all that. He wanted me to speak at the memorial service. And he put all the words in my head. I didn't have to write a thing down. It was just really strange. It was just things would pop into my head about Mark, about what to say over the next three days.Uh, and it would all come together. It all came together in a, I guess, a really good message. Um, But, um, so when the, the memorial service, when the day of the memorial service came, um, I got up to speak and the only thing I took with me, I had a small piece of paper that had a quote from Dune, uh, about fear that, uh, that Mark had in his wallet.So I wanted to have something of his with me up there. And I used that as a transition to really, I talked about all the things that Mark loved. You know, he loved animals. He loved his friends. He loved science fiction. He loved classic movies, uh, all these different things and he, um, um, that's, and I got into the, like, the science fiction piece and I talked about the quote from Dune and, uh, and I use that because I was talking about walking through your fear and, um, I used that and said, well, you know, when you walk through your fear, you face your fear, that's really having faith and then really switch that over and really talked about my own personal faith and told a lot of his friends.Who, who were, you know, they dressed all in the black. They had, you know, the tattoos, they had the piercings, and those were the, the kids that, uh, mark liked to hang out to. A lot of 'em were gamers and things as well. And, but, uh, I don't think a lot of 'em had a much of a relationship, uh, with Christ at all.So I talked a little bit. My faith said, you know, God is, is just, is right next to you. He's, he's right there waiting for you. To, um, just reach out and ask him questions and begin a conversation, talk with him. Um, and then at the end, God had me to talk to his friends specifically. I told them that if you're ever out and you see me, uh, I said, please come up to me and just tell me stories about Mark.And, uh, so after the memorial service, we, um, uh, we went outside and I was waiting to go over to the reception and one of his friends came up and told me he had a story and he told me a story about Mark. And then another one told me a story about Mark. And then soon I had like a line of about 30 of Mark's friends all in a line wanting to tell me stories about Mark.So I stayed out there for about an hour. Um, just listening to story after story, that was just very powerful and really helped with my own healing as well. Just hearing stories how Mark got a refrigerator for one person. He had gotten a cane for someone who had hurt his foot. He, uh, threw a wedding shower for a couple who weren't going to have one.Uh, he was. Went to see a friend who was performing, um, and none of the other friends showed up. He was like the only friend that showed up for that. And it was again, story after story. And I always wondered where all my money went that I gave to Mark. And I realized where all went that day, buying stuff for his friends and taking care of his friends.So, so that was really healing as well. Uh, so, so no, I didn't really get mad at God cause he's kind of, guided me through the whole process of grief all along the way. And I think it was really key to just invite him in right at that very beginning, um, to include him in my grief. And, um, and like I said, he's been with me ever since.Thank you for sharing that. I'm honestly speechless. We've covered suicide a few times before on the show, but I think that was the heaviest story there, especially to know that your son was such a good guy. On top of it and it's it's a shame One of my most popular episodes that gets listened to almost daily is gen z suicide prevention By integrating faith into social media platforms to bring people off of social media and to christ because a lot of people on social media are Depressed or suicidal and they're using it as an escape but a lot of times it actually just fuels that depression further and To see so many young people taking their lives.I was actually on the show where I discussed about Children between 8 and 14 and just the suicide rates among that age group. It's so sad to see that and I'm really just speechless at the conversation you had with God because it's really humbling, you know If you read through the whole bible I mean There's so many calls to humility and so many reminders that you know Our lives are not our own as it says in jeremiah that you know God made us he what he giveth he taketh away and to say that he lost a son as well You Uh, both your son and Jesus Christ, you know, because we're all children of God and you know every day I think There there's a lot of death in the world brought about from the sins of ourselves and others and I think You know, it's got to be sad to be God and see that to see Him more than anyone knows what could have been of those lives I mean everyone has so much potential to choose either good or evil or to repent and choose good and to Know that that was taken away because of the sins of this world it's It's very sad, and I think, like you said, going to God right away, and I think that's so important, and it's, like you said, difficult to do.So many people, if there's a death or a situation like that, the first thing they want to do is say, God, why? You know, blame God, and God, especially that word, you took away my kid. You know, you took away my kid, God. So right away, I think the answer he gave you was humbling and put you in a place where you could understand better.And it's just, it's just very beautiful and sad. It's all poetic. And I really hope that, you know, there's so much out there nowadays to try and prevent suicide, to provide mental health resources. And I just always pray that those get spread and recognized and used. Because every time someone takes their life, about 8 to 15 people are left behind.And people that. the person who committed suicide doesn't even know would be affected. You know, there's so many more people. There's so many people in the world who are alone or feel alone and they don't realize the impact they have. And so how did this all lead to creating Love Never Ends Ministry? I mean, how long after your son's passing did that all kind of formulate together?Yeah, that was a, it's kind of a long path. And, um, so initially, uh, I was in the middle, like I said, I was in the middle of that, that. And so I did get my ministry license and, um, and started, you know, became a licensed pastor. So that was really the first thing. Um, it was about two years after that, that, um, uh, I was sent a letter from our local police department.They were looking for chaplains. So they were wondering if people wanted to be a volunteer chaplain. And so I put in my. Request, uh, or put in my answer to that. I said, yeah, I'd love to at least search it and see what it's going to be about. And, you know, I made it through all the background checks and all that kind of stuff and, and became a chaplain.Um, and, uh, so I, my first, uh, call out ended up being someone that I knew had died of a drug overdose. And, um, uh, I was there ministering to their family, and it was probably, uh, probably about five years after, uh, Mark had taken his life. So, but it didn't really matter. I could go right back to that that morning at any time.And, um, so I'm thinking about how I felt that at that time. And then. I was able just to minister to the family there as they're just finding out about, uh, their daughter who had lost her life. And so that's, I think, um, been a help to me in a lot of those situations as I've been through it myself. And, um, uh, it's, uh, it's also, uh, ministering to me every time I go out.Um, just be able to help somebody else in that situation. Um, in my own experience, you know, I had a lot of help and everything up until the, um, the memorial service and after memorial service, it got to be really, really lonely. Uh, people, it seemed like people didn't know what to say or what to do around me.So they just tried to avoid me altogether. And, um, so that was really a hard part, probably probably the first five, six months. Um, Um, after, after Mark's passing, uh, through going through that grief and, and just really feeling alone. Um, but, uh, One of the other things that I was in the middle of too was a recovery ministry.I was in the process of starting a recovery ministry when Mark passed away. And then that proved to be probably one of the biggest, uh, answers to my healing as well. Because one of the parts of that is that we would get in the group, um, and just kind of share what's going on in our lives. So, uh, every week as we went through our training, And preparing to launch the ministry, I had a safe place to talk about my grief, uh, with people I trusted or people I knew and so that having that outlet really helped me to process a lot of my grief as well and God had called me to that ministry too.So, you know, he had already prepared the way it seemed like. So, I went in the ministry, started this recovery ministry, had a place to do the outlet, uh, led me to the chaplaincy, and, um, really start helping other people, and then, uh, it was, actually, I launched it. Love never ends on the 10th anniversary of Mark's, uh, passing.And so it took me a while. Uh, I had thought about it probably two years before that about putting it together. I wasn't really sure exactly how. I talked to some other parents who had lost children and they were encouraging me. They were kind of getting around me and then they said, well, you need to start this.We need to get going. And so we finally, finally got it going in, um, uh, 2021. Uh, in May and we launched it and started to have, uh, in person groups. Um, meeting, uh, here just to help, you know, local families, uh, try to get through the loss of their children. And so, you know, we had, you know, we helped a number of people throughout the, the first few years and that seemed to work really well.And then we, again, we expanded this last year, uh, in going to all types of grief and loss and started doing workshops and, um, and some online webinars, things like that. Just to try to reach more people and and help more people just to deal with their loss and their grief And I think that's so beautiful.I love how people are utilizing technology to spread the word to connect with one another and We'll have your website in the description below and it's very straightforward I mean the front page is find grief resources check upcoming events and schedule prayer session so you could tell us a little bit about scheduling a prayer session what that looks like and Is that with a group?Is it one on one with you? How does that work? Yeah, that's just one on one with me. I wanted to make give a place where people could, you know, if they just wanted to have prayer, where we could talk for a little bit ahead of time, and then I'd go ahead and pray for them specifically, whatever their prayer requests were to really just help them through their grief.Um, and sometimes it's just good to have a place where you could just talk to someone for a little while. So just set up 15 minute segments for things so we can just talk a little bit and pray. And that's usually good for for people a good amount of time to get through whatever it is that they want to talk about and get prayed for.So that's been something that we recently did. And we were just looking forward to being able to help a lot of people through that. No, I agree completely because I think a lot of people in this world kind of struggle with you know prayer They don't know what to say to God They don't know how to listen or what to do and I think having yourself available to help guide them Especially when they're grieving and there's so many emotions against God longing for God to comfort them yet Resenting him at the same time thing is great to have a guide and to have a way to kind of Go through prayer together.And then as far as the events, is that like online, you know, group meetings? Is it in person events? What does that entail? That entails all the, um, both in person and online activities. So we have monthly groups, both in person and online. And, um, we've got some, uh, I think we've got a, we had a workshop that we just did in, uh, in November, just to help people prepare for the holidays who are going through grief.Um, I'll be putting up, we're going to have a blue Christmas, um, service at our church. So that will be going up on there here shortly. And, um, then I'll be doing some workshops after the first of the year as well. Some online ones. Yeah, I know. In the beginning of the episode, I mentioned how the holidays can be difficult for people because of the raise in suicide rates, but also just people who lost loved ones around these times.I mean, I know. The holidays can often get scarred for a lot of people or bring back a lot of memories and I think it's so important to say just like your ministry that says love never ends, you know grief never ends It comes in waves. I know like when my half sister passed away my mom it would just come and go sometimes she would be outside and see something that reminded her of her daughter and it would just Like you said be just like yesterday just like that morning when you lost your son.It can come back anytime So I think it's important to have that, especially around the holidays. And just for everyone to be aware, you're located in Virginia, correct? If anyone's interested in those in person events. Yep. Yep. We're in Central Virginia, right around the Richmond area. Um, and God also had me, um, write a book about my, um, uh, about my journey through the grief and how he took me on that and everything.And, um, it's called, uh, gracious Grief After Suicide Loss. Um, and it said, um, feel God's love on the worst day of your life is the subtitle. And it, um. That was really therapeutic. I did that. I wrote that actually last year and, uh, published it right around this time. I think it came out, uh, last year. And it was, um, what I tried to do was, uh, Tie in my story and then also, you know, look at some characters from the Bible who'd gone through similar things and tell their story as well.And then at the end of each chapter, I've got a series of questions for people to ask themselves and to really help them work through their own grief. Uh, journey and, uh, hopefully help them, uh, answer some questions that they may not think about and, uh, just keep on moving forward in their grief. Um, so that's, uh, again, that was out, um, last year and, uh, that's, uh, one of my resources that I have, uh, on the resource page of my website.Right. Your book and then the 28 day devotion. No, that goes with it as well. Yeah, I think is great. And I think it's important to to remind everyone especially the men listening, you know He talked about biblical characters going through grief and I think you know one of the most quoted Bible quotes one of the shortest Bible quotes is Jesus wept and I Had friends of mine reach out and they were like, you know, why why did he he cry and you know all that conversation and I It's so powerful.I've discussed before how Jesus cried knowing that he was going to bring him back. Knowing that he could bring him back from the dead. So, why cry then if you already know he's guaranteed to be alive? And I think, The point there was to set an example for for men, especially knowing what's going to happen to our world with masculinity and all the changes in what it means to be a man and How men should express their emotions and I think what jesus said is that you know There are times and places for men to cry in grief when someone passes away is one of those So I think that's so important for everyone to remember just as a reminder for people Who have lost someone or going through something like that that it's okay to Cry and express your emotions as a man who has lost someone important to them.Yeah. Especially if they, if they can find another man that they trust and really be able to talk to and, and talking out their emotions. I know that men, a lot of times don't like to do that. Uh, don't have too many men attend our groups and things, mostly women that attend, uh, but occasionally we'll get some, some guys to attend and, um, they always feel that it's, it's been really good for them, especially like in a workshop and things as well.If they answer the questions and stuff, they, uh, They said, wow, I didn't believe that this would help at all. And, uh, it just, just being able to speak about it just really helped a lot. So, uh, just always encourage men to find someone that they can trust and, uh, and go ahead and, and, you know, just let them know what, what's going on in their heads and try to get that out.Because a lot of times they just want to act strong and, uh, Say, well, I can take it and I'll just keep it in here, but, uh, the more stuff that you stuff inside, uh, eventually it's going to leak out somewhere, whether that ends up in a habit, ends up in anger, ends up in something that's not good usually.And in my recovery ministry, I see that all the time. Right. And on Corinthians chapter 13, verse eight, love never fails. I know the ministry is called love never ends. In addition, it never fails. So how does that tie into everything you do? Yeah, in some translations, it also translates it as love never ends.There's a number of translations that do that. So that's why I've got that there. But yeah, I think the love never fails. Love never ends. Both are with that 1 Corinthians 13, 8. Right. And what is the message there with that, that you want to connect to, to grief? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah, because love and grief are so tightly connected, you know, the more that you love the person and.The, the degree of love that you have when they die, that's the same amount of grief that you've got to deal with as well. And um, I know that, uh, you know, we were, as we were thinking about a name for our ministry, you know, the, the, uh, moms that I was working with, you know, they just wanted to say, you know, we need to focus on the love part of it.And, um, you know, God just kind of brought me that love never ends and, um, cause it doesn't. I'll always love Mark, always grieve Mark, always remember Mark, um, that's not gonna ever go away. And, and same thing for many of the people that I've lost in my life. Um, and so, you know, the grief part, we've got to deal with that.But we got to work through it and, um, That part's not gonna end but our love never ends either so they go in that tandem side by side Right for sure and I think also that God's love for us never ends. Even if through our grief we accuse him or hate him or grow distant He's still there loving us through that whether we reach out to him or not And he's gonna be there waiting for when we're ready.But Mr. Kevin, I mean, it's been such a great conversation again. Thank you for sharing this story that really is heart wrenching to hear and I know it's happening all across the globe every day. There are men and women taking their lives and it's it's a shame and I hope that we can be a part in preventing that and if we can't that we're a part of helping people process that and Kevin.Before we end here, if you could share one Bible quote with us, other than the first Corinthians there, what would that be? Yeah, it's um, one of my favorite ones. I think it's Psalm 34 18 And I use this a lot with those who are grieving is that you know God is close to the brokenhearted and he is near those who are crushed in spirit and We always have to remember that, you know, if we're going through some tough times God's right there with us, and we just need to invite Him into that situation with us, and He's just waiting for us to do that so that He can help in the really, uh, amazing ways that, that He does.And, uh, if we don't invite Him in or if we Get mad at him and things were just postponing those blessings that can be coming along as well. And, uh, just that just additional huge help because God knows both our mind and our thoughts and all the stuff going on in our bodies and everything. And he's there wanting to heal us, wanting to help us and just wanted to love us.So, that's always my encouragement, is to invite God in, doesn't matter where you are in your grief process, it's never too late, it's never too early, just go ahead and invite Him in. Amen, I like that, it's never too late to bring God into it, and I think it's so important, because the Bible says, They who don't know God don't know love, because God is love, and that's so important.And, I smiled there when you dropped that quote, because that's actually, A quote that got me through a lot It's the one I always put forward because I think it's so important To have that encouragement and know and oftentimes we are brokenhearted and crushed in spirit And I always partner that quote with you know God knows every intricate part of your heart and he counts every tear and I think that's so important to know that god is with us and so many people see god as a Accuser and a judger and they're saying god's looking in our heart to see evil You But it's so important to know that God also sees the saddest, most grieving parts of our heart.And so He knows our pain. Maybe even more than we know. More than others know. So it's important to know that. God isn't sitting here constantly judging us to punish us, but He is here, and He knows us more than anyone, and He knows our great, our potential that we have, He knows the pain we're in, and He knows what we need, so I think that's a great quote that you shared, and a partner as well, with a lot of quotes, and it can be really encouraging, especially in times of crisis.Ladies and gentlemen, I hope you got something out of this, and if you are grieving or you know someone who is, I highly recommend the website we'll have in the description below for grief resources, for the events, and I highly recommend the prayer session. I think it's so important to pray with others, and Jesus said it himself, where two or more of you gathered, I am there also, and he's always with us.But, You know, I think faith is boosted in community, and I think when there's a loss we need to come together. So, Mr. Skellett, so much for coming on the show and sharing your story, and I really appreciate what you do now to help other people. Yeah, well, thank you very much, and thank you for having me.It's been a pleasure.
